CCC 405 Although it is proper to each individual, original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam’s descendants. It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin - an inclination to evil that is called concupiscence". Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ’s grace, erases original sin and turns a man back towards God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle.

On Justification
On what basis does God declare a person just?
On your own righteousness or Christ’s?

The other point of contention 500 years ago during the reformation was the word imputed/reckon/accounted righteousness.

The text plainly says that the righteousness required for God to declare us righteous in not of our own, but a righteousness that comes from Him.

We often think that Jesus came only to die for our sins. He could’ve done that by just coming down on Good Friday, get crucified and go back straight up to heaven, and achieved the same thing.

But scriptures says He came to be born under the Law,
To fulfil all righteousness;
So that He can be our righteousness:
Thus, He is Jehovah Tsidkenu, the Lord our righteousness:
A convicted murderer is sentenced to death. The president pardons him. He is free, but is he righteous?

The cross not only transfers the sinners’ sin to Christ, but Christ’s righteousness to the sinner.

So Justification by Faith alone is only a shorthand to say that we are Justified by the Righteousness of Jesus Christ alone.

Faith is the means where this is achieved.

This is for you mr wong

Every founder of each denomination who claims to know Scripture claims it's not their idea but God's.

You are again misinterpreting Hebrews 4. The rest there is the end after the race of this life.

God does the walking in, but you must first cooperate by opening the door. What if you refuse to open the door?

Painters of this verse always paints the doors without the doorknob from the outside to show that we need to cooperate with God.

So Calvary Church that UW attends is Calvinist?

Jesus Christ gave the woman who was about to be stoned, the gift of no condemnation FIRST before repentance.

Sorry but you are the one who have the Gospel reverse.

No need to even edit, it's there

John 8:10-11 (NIV) -

10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

11“No one, sir,” she said.

“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

[/spoiler]

Paul vs James?
Throughout history, many Christians have been stumbled by the seemingly contradictory statements by Paul and James. On one hand, Paul preaches that man is justified by faith apart from works, but James is seemingly saying that man is justified by works.

There are many theories and speculations around, some in this forum even denied that James was rightly included in the canon.

To understand scriptures, it is important to not only read the text at hand, but understand the argument 10 verses before and after that verse to really understand the context.

For James, let’s see what issue he was addressing in the text:
Apparently there are Christians during that time that claimed to be believers, but were not displaying any fruits.
So James challenges them to show their faith without works and he can show them his faith by his works.
This is perhaps the most challenging part to interpret. It is important that we do not read Paul’s justification by imputation into this text, because James wasn’t expositing how a man is saved by God. He was addressing an error we call easy-believism/antinomians

In Greek, there is another usage of the word justify. I would like to draw your attention to a portion of Jesus’ proverb in Luke:
Here, the exact same word is used in James, but it doesn’t mean that wisdom is declared righteous by her children. That’s non-sensical. Justify is Greek can also be used in lieu of proven right, the results proved the initial argument.


Going back to to our text in James, he was saying that the faith of Abraham was proven right when he offered Isaac on the altar. Abraham was counted righteous in Genesis 15, he offered up Isaac in Genesis 22. His act in Gen 22 proved his faith in Gen 15 right. The display of obedience confirmed that his faith is a living faith, a perfect faith.

The whole text is calling out people who claimed to a believer, but are really false believers/anti-nomians.

James wasn’t contradicting Paul in saying that man is justified by faith and works.

A call to obedience in scriptures does not automatically say that you are justified by your works.

We are saved not by a profession of faith, but a possession of faith.

It's not about face value, scripture must be understood correctly.

Read it carefully. Symbolizes means represent a type and save ..."not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ"

The word dirt there means filth of the flesh. The water does not save by washing away the filth but the pledge of a clear conscience, that is the key.
Yes Jesus did not use the word symbolizes and if you were to take that at face value, you would have to be cannibal eating his real Flesh. Imagine his body being ripped apart and eaten literally if we go as what you say..Face Value.

our Lord Jesus also explained that HE is the bread of life...and in later part of the Bible in

1 Corinthians 10:16 (NIV) - Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ?

It is understood these are instituted sacrament. We do this in recognizing what Christ has done. Of course the bread that you eat today is not really his body per say but as Christians we understand when the elements are blessed we eat in Faith believing in what Christ has done on the cross.

Hello unknown warrior,

Romans 3:25 says :

whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. – ESV

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; - KJV

God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished - NIV

Can you see? Past sins! Whichever version of the Bible you use, it's the same. & I've quoted frm 3 different ones.

You cannot keep on sinning after that! So you gotta stop explaining away Hebrews 10:26 like you always do.
Your version of theology has turned this into a pipe-dream of sharing in Christ's death vicariously, and then 'Righteousness imputed' or

'deposited into your account' as a means to declare you righteous while you remain 'unrighteous'.

This is because you view Christ's death as a 'Provision' that's to pay off man's sin debt, and suffer in his place, instead of a

Ransom to release him from the bondage and corruption of sin.

But Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil - 1 John 3:8

NOT pay off any debts He didn't owe.

That's why it requires self-denial and a dying to sin to follow Him:

"Then He said to them all, “If anyone Will come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and
follow Me. For whoever Will save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it." Luke 9:23-24

Salvation is not a 'Judicial transaction', in which man is suddenly declared 'not guilty', because he has trusted in

what Christ did on the Cross. It is a deliverance from the bondage and corruption of sin.

You like to preach trust, trust, trust. But what do you trust in?

Redemption itself means: 'Release from bondage'.

How can you be released from the bondage of sin and STILL be a sinner?

Jesus said: 'he who commits sin is a slave to sin' John 8:34,

Paul said its 'Obedience unto Righteousness, or sin unto death', - Rom 6:16.

How can you who have died to sin live any longer therein! - Rom 6:2

Where's the passage that says He paid it all, or took up the Cross for you, or obeyed in your place?

There's nothing in scripture to suggest we accept all this in a 'Positional sense and trust in Christ's finished work on the Cross.

But yet, you keep teaching this.

In as much as believing God has cleansed us of all past sins, then yes. But what happens from then on?

Virtue cannot be transferred! If you do righteous deeds, you're considered righteous.

We simply cannot continue living in sin, after becoming a 'Christian', or we're not real Christians. Do you get it?

Taking up 'Your Cross' is the imperative, there must be a real dying to self life in repentance, or you will never cease from sin.

This is why the Professed in the Churches are laden with sin, but yet, nobody dares to judge, because they(you) believe we shouldn't judge.

A good tree cannot bear both good & bad fruits! Understand this.
They would rather carry sin as their burden than Christ's Commandments which are 'not burdensome! - Matt 11:28-30.
Why do you think Jesus said 'Blessed are the poor in spirit,

blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,

blessed are those who mourn and blessed are the pure in
heart...

Like I said in my previous post, He came to Save us FROM our Sins, not IN THEM!

What was John the Baptist's message?

John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. - Mark 1:4

"....demonstrate their repentance by their deeds." - Acts 26:20

But yet, in one of your previous postings 2 pages back, you use the excuse of the NT wasn't written yet, etc

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John G. Lake sought to teach people the whole depth of God’s Word and righteous living, i.e. to be like Christ in character, thought, and deed, and that all who are called of God may be freed from the shackles with which Satan binds them with:

"I tell you God says, 'quit your sins, and then come to Me, and I will pardon you.' He doesn't say, 'you come on with your sins and I will pardon you'.

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What benefit would Salvation have, if we are to remain hopelessly in bondage to our sins until death takes us?

Yet, you always teach that we will sin until the day we die, & can only stop sinning, only when we finally get our glorified bodies.

Is that the kind of Kingdom God would prepare for those who love Him, full of people addicted to drunkenness, fornications, adultery,

uncleanness, evil dispositions, pornography, witchcraft, and all manner of vile habits?


Where is the Power in the Salvation/grace that you preach then? Or is it merely to save you from going to hell? Is that all you're saved from?

If it's His job to clean you up, then WHY are believers still sinning and making excuses for it, constantly saying,

'no one is perfect, you can't judge, it's not of works? Because they've(you) been brainwashed that the 'flesh is sinful', & we can't stop sinning no matter how hard we try.

Obedience is not dead works! It's the requirement/expectation from God, if we should ever hope to attain eternal life.
When you agree with zanness that Christians are not SINLESS, but SIN LESS, your understanding of the Gospel is already flawed.

Like I said, you're coming from a wrong premise.

A premise of false theology.

You sit in a church that has the Gospel in REVERSE.

Nothing in Hebrews 4 tells us Rest in there refers to end of life journey. Sorry.

The account in Hebrews 4 is very much related to entering the promise land where they the Israelites wondered for 40 years. They couldn't entered in because of their unbelief. Hebrews 4 is telling us, our promise land is Heaven. (Read verse 14-16) That is why God tells us TODAY (in verse 7) and not in the future in the context not to harden our heart to disbelieve.

This has nothing to do with waiting for their works of trials and suffering to finish. Nothing on this is disclose in either Hebrews 3 & 4.

The whole context has to do with either you believe God whole heartedly or you don't. (read verse 3) If you do, you will enter into God's rest which is the life of a Christian. Time and time again Christ tells us to be at peace not be troubled. In fact the Lord sees this to be upmost importance, you can read this in verse 11.

Sabbath Rest is to tell you, God has indeed finished HIS creation work, His original intention for was Adam and Eve to just flourish without the sweat of the brow, to enjoy Eden ruling with the Lord.

Having free will does not mean you are not born into depravity. I think you are confuse between ability and state. Sinners can definitely do good but they have this tendency to sin which they cannot do away with.

Even babies with no one teaching them, can learn to be selfish refusing to share their toys.

I think the problem is that you do not understand neither recognize God has given you the grace to not sin in your actions and words. You use THAT grace to attack other believers who are struggling to which I find rather distasteful.

Christian maturity is a life of rest in God. To understand this better, in contrast... the opposite of this are Christians always living their life... worrying, agitated, never at peace, etc, you get the idea.

The reason for strive to enter into peace (if you think about it) is because the devil wants to keep Christian in constant worry and doubtful state. So there is a battle to enter into rest, just as there is battle in living the holy life.  The battle is strive constantly believe in the Lord. The devil will fight you in throwing situations to make you worry and doubt God.

Yes, but not me saying it, but God's himself telling us, we enter into his rest just by believing. And not just believing in anything else but to believe in God, what He says.

As you do not understand the meaning of rest....this rest is not laying down doing nothing. This rest means you are not shaken inside, you are resting in what God has promised to you, refusing to even worry.

This has very much to do with almost every aspect of the Christian life even...Salvation.

Hope this helps to explain brother.

Yes I know Catholics call it transubstantiation and yes I know Christ said it's his flesh and drinking his blood....but as I've told you, if it was his real flesh, you would have tasted meat and blood. Do you taste the meaty flesh and blood?

This is just a simple question.

And I think the problem with you, you are clueless to what I'm asking.

Did you read the entire post of what I've wrote?

ps: On site note.....in Romans 10:8‭-‬10 <-----where in these verses ...what actions you are implying?

Deuteronomy is the old covenant where God's blessing is based on Man's performance to his laws. 

Romans 10 is the new covenant do read verse 5

5 Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law: “The person who does these things will live by them.” a 6 But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” b (that is, to bring Christ down) 7“or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’ ” c (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” d that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

See the phrase "BUT" in verse 6. IN the Greek it is the word "De" which means however.

Meaning it's no more of works of the law.

Yes those were quoted from Deuteronomy but there is a "BUT" meaning it is no more of the Law and what does Romans 10 Verse 10 says?

What does Psalm 51:5 say?