Sorry

After the Law was given, ISRAEL WAS JUDGED. They were given to captivity as they disobeyed God.

Let me give you one example. David was after the law.

45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David;

46 Who found favour before God, and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob.

Favour in English is used interchangeably with grace. In Hebrew and Greek, the word is the same.

So No. God's character does not change. His Holiness emits grace to sinners, which from Adam to me, WE ARE.

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Mar 30 2020, 02:14 PM

12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.

14 All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear; which among them hath declared these things? The Lord hath loved him: he will do his pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on the Chaldeans.

15 I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous.

16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

17 Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

I did not agree to your dispensation.
Bear in mind who died worshipping the molten calf. Before the Law?

I just showed you DAVID, who was after the Law was given found grace in God. AND that was before Jesus.

SO when was your dispensation of grace supposed to be?

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Mar 30 2020, 02:43 PM

The Law has NOT been read to the Israelites yet.

You keep supporting yourself. Not scriptures.

When was/is your dispensation of grace? Please define this.

Law defines sin. It does not TRIGGER sin.

Not god. But God is Law. You are so right. Holiness and law go hand in hand as law reflects His righteous and Holy character.

I think the main problem with the Lutheran reformist theology is LAW VS GRACE. And that's nonsense.

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Mar 30 2020, 02:59 PM

Now you have changed your stance.

Law was no longer the guardian because the Law personified had come in the person of Yeshua.

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

The personified truth encompasses the Torah. He has come to magnify what Torah is.

I asked you when was the dispensation of grace? You did not answer.
It seems that you define it as Israel from Egypt to Sinai and the NON grace...to Jesus.....and after Jesus.
What happened to Adam to Moses? And after Sinai to Jesus? Did they live by the Law?
What happened to David who lived between Sinai and Jesus?

The Laws of God TRIGGERS sin? Are you blaming the Law for your sin?

The Law defines Sin

Romans 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

While you are at it, study Romans 7 and 8.

And Paul calls the Law , SCHOOLMASTER

Jesus, full of grace and TRUTH. TRUTH encompasses Torah. Do you understand Torah?
Jesus came to magnify Torah as He was TRUTH in person.
There is NO Law vs Grace theology. This is from the anti-Semitic thought of Luther reformation fallacy.

You think the Law was destroyed when Jesus came. He refutes you..

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Yes. Indeed Jesus magnified TRUTH

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

The Torah and the Navihim(prophets) is totally found in Jesus.


Indeed, God's scriptures is very strong on Grace THROUGHout scriptures.

I do not think Jesus increased anything.
He came to enlighten what the Law was all about. And its not writings on the stone.

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

When Jesus declared this, the term 'to fulfil' in Rabbinic terms is to teach it properly. Likewise, to destroy the Law is to teach it erroneously, which the teachers of the Law were doing.
Its also important to note that teaching does not just mean a verbal discourse. In Jewish mindset, teaching is also shown by the evidence of the life of the person. That is the reason Truth was walking amongst the Jews at the time.

Therefore, in the following chapters, you see Jesus expounding on what the Law is all about.

Exactly. Before that the Law was written on stone.

It was never meant to be read as on stones, but in spirit.

So when TRUTH walked amongst the Jews and taught them the spirit of the Torah, they exclaimed

28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Apr 1 2020, 02:38 PM

I seriously think you should NOT advertise your Roman Catholic menu here.

The RCC is one of the woes of Christianity past and present. You have brought numerous pagan rituals into the faith.
You should seriously repent of your Marian idolatry before the Lord makes an impending judgement.

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Apr 1 2020, 02:49 PM

You have answered in half answers.

No one died before the giving of the Law?



You seem to pick and choose what you want to answer

What of Adam to Moses? Did they live and were justified by the LAW? What happened to David? Did he live and justified by the Law?

Were the Israelites justified by the Law then?

Hi...you are putting in somethings which i did not say again like the last time.
Did I say anyone can fulfil the Law?

I am saying there is no Law vs Grace taught in scriptures. BUT its taught by YOU. A reformist fallacy.
Again, as you seem to be lacking in understanding of, Jesus is the personification of TRUTH and GRACE, which encompasses TORAH.

And you quoting Romans 7:8, ignored vs7. Does not define?



Its because you have selective reading and which is delusive

And you seem to believe in a Chameleon god who changes His style as he pleases.

God is unchanging in HIS CHARACTER AND ATTRIBUTES. HE IS HOLY AND RIGHTEOUS FOREVER. The Law and grace exhibited defines this character unless your god changes at every whim and fancy.

Therefore, Grace is shown from Adam to present day, irrespective of the given Law

I did not say no one died from Adam to. I am asking you that.....I cannot enlarge it any bigger.

What of Adam to Moses? Did they live and were justified by the LAW? What happened to David? Did he live and justified by the Law?

Were the Israelites justified by the Law then?

So David did not live under grace? Maybe your are the one with selective reading and of scriptures too.
Because i have posted this earlier on

.

Did David live and get justified by the Law or Grace?

well, i am repeating it because you have a flawed theology of Law vs Grace.
i have written before that when a Rabbi says 'He is fulfilling the Law', it means he is explaining it properly. So if you read it in contemporary English and understand it with a Greco Roman mindset, you will never get what Jesus is saying.
That is the reason you see Jesus explaining the Law from Mat 4 onwards in the ensuing chapters.
Do you understand what is Jewish block logic? That's how Matthew is writing.

So what you are essentially saying that Christians do not have the Law to tell them that they are wrong because they are not under the Law.
Funny Paul goes on to say this. How did he know right from wrong, since he was not under the Law?



How do you then know what is right and wrong?

See how you start to bring in insinuations that I subscribe to such again and again. Do you know that you are bearing false witness like this?



Where did i write that the Law justifies as you have insinuated here?

Instead i wrote this which you seem to have not read



So i ask you again was there a dispensation of grace or law from Adam to Moses?

What of Adam to Moses? Did they live and were justified by the LAW? What happened to David? Did he live and justified by the Law?

Were the Israelites justified by the Law then?

This is the 3rd time of asking.

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Apr 2 2020, 01:49 PM

Read for yourself.

So you are a Roman Catholic closet supporter?

Stop asking for repentance? What IS your gospel?

https://ourrabbijesus.com/articles/what-ful...jewish-context/



This post has been edited by prophetjul: Apr 2 2020, 01:40 PM

And I keep posting Acts 7:46

45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David;
46 Who found favour before God, and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob.

Do know what is favour or charis

5485. charis ►
Strong's Concordance
charis: grace, kindness
Original Word: χάρις, ιτος, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: charis
Phonetic Spelling: (khar'-ece)
Definition: grace, kindness
Usage: (a) grace, as a gift or blessing brought to man by Jesus Christ, (b) favor, © gratitude, thanks, (d) a favor, kindness.

Since you mentioned clearly David lived under the Law, Acts 7:46 refutes YOU!



ADam to Moses , NOTHING TO SAY? Cat got your doctrinal tongue?


Do you even read what i posted?

The Israelites were JUDGED and KILLED for worshipping the molten calf BEFORE the Law was given! How many times do i need to post the passage?

Talk about selective reading!

Here

27 And he said unto them, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.
28 And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.

Since you said Christians are not under the custody of the Law to be justified,

are you saying that Israel including David are JUSTIFIED by the LAW?

You mean asking the idolator to repent and turn away from their idols is cari pasal?
If that be so, then I cari pasal.

I guess when the 3,000 Israelites got killed for worshipping the molten calf is cari pasal too.

So Yeeck can come into your evangelical space to promote his Roman doctrines is deemed acceptable while I by challenging your hyer grace norms is fist fighting?

Hebrew idioms or exaggerated figures of speech which Jesus used

1) If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters - yes, even his own life - he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26)

2) If your right eyes causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. (Matt. 5:29)

3) It is like a mustard seed, which is the smallest seen you plant in the ground. (Mark 4:31)

Hebrews 11 King James Version (KJV)
11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.
22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions.
34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.