Related, is not quite the same as the actual asset…at least in my opinion.

I did mention looking at GBTC. It is still just related and not directly holding.

I will say in bearish market SA also not doing to well. I remember how deep it was during Covid and near the end of trade wars.

I must admit, I have completely cashed out, because I need the money to buy a house / downpayment.

Here's a man with a hard question...I love it!
I would be choosing the one with least KWEB, be it lowest risk index. I would likely move all of it.

I have no qualms to retain ALL of my SA, switch to a lower risk index.

When I say this, it means I will be not expecting SA to be a prime return instrument for me. It used to be that with 20%+ annualized gains. Instead I will treat it as the low risk portfolio.

Personally I have reached sufficient mass be able to DIY my own portfolio of ETFs. Fortunately, buying VTI, VOO, QQQ is easy for me. Unfortunately I don't have a low enough cost option AND the discipline to stick to a strict allocation like SA. Recently I think, that it is not smart to sell your winners and buy losers (KWEB). It seems like watering the weeds and cutting the flowers, just to maintain the "balance".

With this, I am really challenging the Modern Portfolio theory.

TLDR - follow xander83 and DIY lah.

It is not surprising that Malaysian's are not considered to be a "saving" nation. It is getting rarer and rarer to see people save these days.

"Invest" now that is such a wide concept....many invest with a short horizon and just want to YOLO or do something quickly....

Our government does 1 good thing (EPF) and follows up with several bad things (I-lestari etc) but most of all get caught in useless Timah fiasco rather upping our earning capability and competitiveness. End up negative sum game. Don't withdraw, no food on the table. Some withdraw, buy PS5. haih.

bro, i think once you diy there is no looking back. You are literally not "stashing away".

The only thing is how to construct your portfolio when it is literally ala carte (brokerage) vs set meals (SA).

BTW are you still in China funds? I personally sold at one of the low points in end July 2021, locking in some losses. If i see it today, its flattening. I'm looking for a good time to reenter if there ever is one.

personally i have about 50% of my liquid assets in equity. At some point, 70 to 80% of that is in a SINGLE stock (my company that I work in). Throughout 2008 mortgage crisis, and 2020 covid, these 2 black swans didn't make me lose sleep. I can say i was down 1 myvi a day during march 2020. but, it didn't make me lose sleep too. This year I decided to own more than 1 company and sometimes I'd lose sleep if some companies I own do not go up when I think it should, but its more due to frustration than fear.

I highly suggest again reading Malkiel's A random walk down wall street. It really strengthened my understanding of the equity market, the psychology of equity ownership, of investing. The interesting thing is the recommendation of the book is to buy ETF, ironically I end up going to a diverse group of individual stocks hahaha. But the understanding of the short term market movements (essentially random) and the strength of the efficient market in mid term and long term vs the fallacy of any method to predict the market (fundamental, technical, etc) really told me to calm the heck down and let it ride.

So, I think, after reading more I sleep better.

People say in a bull market everyone is a genius...We'll see how it goes during the bear market.

The best answer laid out by MUM above. The short answer is investing is never a straight line upwards. This is not FD or ASNB Fixed price unit trust.

Know what you are actually buying - which is essentially stocks and hopefully you know or remember that it goes up and down, every single stock will do that. And there is no such thing as a stock that never changes in price and value.

What comes to mind when you buy bond funds? Do you expect bond funds to never dip / lose value over time? If not what do you think causes it to drop in value?

Do you think it goes in a certain straight line along with prevailing interest rates?

What is the worth to you, when adding a significant portion of that in to your portfolio?

I find this asset very misunderstood. Anecdotally I have seen countless new threads or posts going why is my bond fund dropping? (panic.jpg) Or am I in the wrong thread.....??

Ya.

I don't blame them, I spent years buying and staring at these funds myself in PM, FSM etc before digging in. I hope when I ask the question, intrepid forumers will start thinking and asking the same questions too, and find the answer.

Ultimately my personal question is this - IS IT suitable for Malaysians who have forced savings, social security net, at times exceeding their pure equity or cash bucket, to buy even more bond (funds) as a ballast to their investment or retirement portfolio, JUST to satisfy that modern portfolio theory. I've stated so many times, MPT was derived or designed for western cultures that do not save, does not have social security like EPF, certainly not in such a heavy scheme (20%+ of gross income). Furthermore, we have ASNB/SSPN as you say that generates the similar functions.

My own summary when I read, and bear in mind I have only glanced through "Portfolio Selection" and I have a bachelor's degree in bullshit when I say it does look like bonds are a class to reduce overall risk which above can do, and to a certain extent does very well due to the very high allocation (20% of gross income can mean 70% of fresh investment, easily).

If I am right, then it makes no sense to achieve a lowered risk portfolio in your investment portfolio - IF - you have a big EPF ballast in your nett portfolio other than to reduce the risk further which also means to reduce gains further. What you gain is perhaps more sleep.

Then, my question if I am right is why bother with low risk index if this is all that you will do?

Sorry to quote you so many times, but to add to my initial drivel above about bonds, is the question of expected returns, if you have a risk index at the max 36% - equaling the historical risk index of S&P500 (citation needed), either Stashaway is a genius that can exceed it with bonds 10-20% or you should not expect anything higher in the long term....

And we all know that the long term return given by S&P500 is 8%.

They never publish their drawdowns, as well as ACTUAL standard deviations. This needs to be published big big, in order to generate confidence and understanding.

I mean thanks for the support, i really hope if got any other people who read my rubbish and tell me i'm wrong (and why of course) so that I can correct my investment approach.
I think THAT freaking keeps me awake. Hahaha.

just to illustrate - I did invest in wahed for the lols, back in Dec 2020 at market super highs. changed phone, forgot about it, now its +15% or something.
I remember that time I said so stupid this wahed don't have KWEB.

I think for those of us investing with Stashaway etc...you know how hard it is to make some gains in the market.

You will surely appreciate the security that EPF provides...so don't cash out of EPF!

I know it is not liquid but care to elaborate? What would you ponder about if still years away?

Oh. Well in that case you need to balance your own bond to equity ratio by yourself then. Portfolio allocation is still applicable, the knobs you turn is either skew more equity or more bonds aka FI. Of course the risk rewards relation is obvious.

Not sure what is the composition of your portfolio that you have that dropped 3% (I think its about there for many of us) but here are some comparisons:
1. ARKK -0.7%
2. VTI/VOO/SPY -2.1%
3. VXUS -2.9%
4. lee82gx personal portfolio - -2.7%
5. US banks and finance - roughly -5%
6. QQQ -2%

Long term, overall do you track any of those well in the ups and downs?

You can start a lower risk index portfolio. That won't force you to sell at low and buy units at high.

In the end of the day, it is very simple, Freddy and team thinks China tech will come back strong in long term. You can easily browse other risk indexes but I remember KWEB is always rather heavy in all of them.

It is their bet for your future.
If you don't agree with this, then perhaps you are better served to DIY.

They boasted, the 20+% returns, back in 2020 but it is absolutely not true that they are guaranteeing or even promising anything near that for 2021.

I'm sure they will have to show their performance soon enough and its not going to surprise me if it sucks (ie like your 4-5-6% gains if you never attempted any buy at dips).

Anyhow, you all need to know what you are buying and not just simply stashing away with reckless abandon.

You are putting up your gains by betting on China. It will drive your returns if any.

Now, Freddy has done so many show and tell and presentations on why he thinks that is. Growing middle class, consumption economy, internal economy, etc etc, all of this are valid reasons to be optimistic.

But there is no guarantee, just confidence. Not too long ago you guys just only pledged in Freddy we trust. Why not now? Is trust a conditional thing? Then its not really trust rather than coincidentally being on the same side right?

I have my doubts, and frankly I am NOT comfortable yet with China tech. But it doesn't mean I am right. Heck, I am not even fit to tie Freddy's shoelaces when it comes to investment. So, choose your pill and enjoy the ride.

Understand that you are very much speculating, and there is a risk it may not turn out well. It doesn't look that bad if you think that in worse case scenario its just a loss of gain or a small loss of capital.

No risk where got returns? If there is return guaranteed and no risk then you are dreaming

april-may 2021 was quite a low point, it stands to reason that as of today its green.

either way, 4-5-6-7% one of is still kacang. If you compounded over some years, then 7 is a lot more than 4... so hang on and let time do the magic.

The more important question is did you buy enough?