Hi unknown warrior,

About the dying thief on the cross, I have thought about this too asked the preacher in my church.
What I have learned is that the ultimate answer will be from God, his decision on that day, not something we can answer... only Him.
And for those that are living, we have to do our job, do his will, follow and keep his truth.
For example, a case in my church, there is this unbelieving husband of a sister, he has cancer, he only agreed to baptize on his dying bed,
so our brother carried him to the river and have him baptized, then a day or 2 later he passed away.
He baptized but haven't have Holy Spirit (speaking in tongue) so most of us will go, how ah??? Brethen in the church, including me is confident he is saved. Cases like this, we would see it as the irregular/special case....

For us that are living, we do our job, we seek Him, do his will, keep his word and truth. Since God tell us receiving Holy Spirit is so important for our salvation so we do as he says, pray and ask for it, receive his promised gift Holy Spirit and then we have a counselor that guide us into his truth/word (John 16:13 However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth. ..... )

God bless!

This post has been edited by GirlOnaMission: Oct 31 2018, 11:05 AM

Hi MrCee
Yes, I understand where you are coming from.
The thing is, God give us his Holy Spirit but his Spirit does not force us to do things, even the good ones he does not force us... it is us, are we willing to yield to his will? The bible has a story on the prodigal son, he has done many bad things, he is the dead and now alive. Though we belong to God, if we are not watchful, we could still stray. But one really have to come back to Him with repentance and determination to not stray again. God is merciful and forgiving but he does give us time, even to an adulterer (Rev 2:21Even though I have given her time to repent of her immorality, she is unwilling.)

God bless!

Dear Thomasthai,

Then how do you explain Luke 11:13 ....how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”
The key word here is ask. If people have received the Holy Spirit once believed, they don't have to ask. People do not receive the Holy Spirit once believed, therefore they ask to receive.

Many people want the easy way out. Wants the shortcut. Wants to be lazy. Don't want to put in effort to pray daily, don't want to ask but just want things given to them automatically. And then change the truth? That will bring curse....
I only want the good for people, not curse. May God help us to know his truth.

This post has been edited by GirlOnaMission: Oct 31 2018, 10:30 AM

Agree. I have been there too. Learned my lesson, don't be lazy to pray, asked God to help me with a praying habit... now everyday pray, so much peace and contentment. Really, Only God can fill this void and take away the unexplainable pain.

Hi girlonamission,



The moment we believed, we have the Spirit in us. You know why?



God already chose to save those that belonged to Him before the foundation of the world.

Did you think you chose to believe in Christ or did the Holy Spirit regenerate you and gave you faith to believe?



Regeneration precedes faith! Dead people cant raise themselves. Now the Spirit has already given you the faith to believe.

So what is Luke 11 talking about? The context is Jesus teaching his disciples how to pray. Everytime you pray you need to ask for the Holy Spirit?

The biggest mistake is equating Holy Spirit = speaking in tongues.

You assumed that because you were taught falsely by other people.

Can I suggest that in your Christian life you are also to pursue holiness, and if you walk in the Spirit you will also have the fruits of the the Spirit:



Ask the Spirit for the fruits when you pray instead.

The bible verses you shared did not explain Luke 11:13.
It is promised to be given, doesn't mean a person have it already.
There is a narrow gate and a wide gate.
Those that go through the wide gate, did God not choose them? God choose them but they choose the easy way without biblical truth.
And there is a Parable of the Net. Many fishes are caught in the net, but not all fish is collected.
Though he chooses us, that does not mean one can be lazy and pick the wide easy gate 'Oh I believed, I have already'.

Your choice, your way. Not going to force anything on anyone.
You can continue to keep yours.
I will continue to keep mine.

Peace~

Compare luke 11 with a parallel verse in matthew;

Doesnt say Holy Spirit here.

So how do you understand this?

Likewise, I cant force you to believe in what i say, but the pentecostal theology is built on error upon error. Christians before the 20th century never read the bible like pentecostals do today.

Hi Sis in Christ.

I believe there are no insignificant details in the Bible, more so especially when it comes to the matter of the cross. I believe the Holy Spirit record that down on purpose.

How that thief got saved is consistent in the Gospel that it is by the Grace of God through faith. To say otherwise or that Grace and Faith is not enough and you need to add in works/baptism or whatever would imply, we are saying God is inconsistent (meaning for the thief is special case, for the rest of us is different) in the manner he has outlined for salvation.

You may not agree with me but I hope this portion of scripture will be revealed to you.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 31 2018, 12:43 PM

of course we have to eat to live, God even said..those who don't work, shall not eat (2 Thessalonians 3:10), but that is never the point.

The point is....

the craving for a life partner does not need to be something so desirable that it over rules God. This seeking that at times we self justify over God's word of not to be yoked with an unbeliever...I find it ...not right to ignore just because we see others doing the same.

but whatever the case, it's your decision, nobody can force you if you still want to go ahead with and form a courting/life relationship an unbeliever, this is just scriptural advise. Peace.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 31 2018, 12:52 PM

The idea that you can believe and be saved but not have the Spirit is contradictory to scriptures.

Even in the old testament God promised to regenerate those saved with His Spirit. The is the promise of the new covenant.

"Good tree bears good fruit. Bad tree bears bad fruit." <- Yes, true also.
When it comes to determination, I would think more like may God grant us a heart of determination with his help. When we make up our mind and God will help us along the way. To make effort and do our part.
I don't think you should use the word "naturally" follow God's ways, for we know that David have the Spirit of God yet he committed serious sin, and he cried bitterly begging God not to take away his Spirit from him. (Psalms 51:11 Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me.)

God give us his Holy Spirit and at the same time, he gives us our freedom to make our own choice. With his Spirit, he would remind us, he would teach us, he would bring revelation and understanding, he would rebuke and he would also comfort. But when God remind and rebuke, do we ignore or do we submit, that is the problem with us.

And I don't know what "scream" you are talking about. The Holy Spirit(speaking in tongue) in my church do not scream. We pray in tongue orderly, the sound is like bubbling fountain. If you see someone screaming, that is probably unclean spirit.

This post has been edited by GirlOnaMission: Oct 31 2018, 03:06 PM

Hi Sister amy85,

Did you put this into your prayer? After I put this matter into my prayer, things begin to take place.
My advise, don't forget to put this in your prayer.

God bless!

Hi unknown warrior,

God is of course consistent in his words.
Yes, it is by the Grace of God through faith. The case of this thief is that he doesn't have the chance to be let down and have a baptism. If the thief have the chance to come down, I believe he too have to be baptized. Even Lord Jesus have set us an example for baptism. We can't just focus on 'grace' and forget his other teachings... We know the bible is a whole set of teachings from God, there is grace, there is baptism, there is foot washing and there is also 10 commandments...

The point is..he wasn't.

and He got permitted to where He will be with Jesus WITHOUT baptism, WITHOUT the chance to prove his walk and not just his talk.

On that basis, you cannot presuppose an 'IF".

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 31 2018, 02:53 PM

Hi unknown warrior,

The thief is with Lord Jesus without baptism. God surely have grace and authority to give this to whomever he wants.
The very same God Jesus Christ have shown us baptism, foot washing, Holy communion, 10 commandments. The thief don't get the chance to continue his life doing all this but that doesn't mean the us now living on earth shouldn't follow what Lord Jesus himself has taught us to follow.

God bless and peace~

Think for a moment what you're saying now.

You are implying God gave that thief special grace while the rest of us, don't have that.

If that thief got IN without Water Baptism, without foot washing, without proving that He followed the 10 commandments wholeheartedly, how is God being consistent or fair?

ps: I'm not talking about not doing what Christ ask you to do but those were never the qualifying factors for Salvation.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 31 2018, 05:01 PM

.
You are correct but that's a very BIG IF, both individuals intending to get married has God's life in them, by that I mean both of them being born again, yes they can definately marry each other although they are from different denominations.

If any one party is not born of the Spirit, then there's going to be fundamental differences because the theology teachings are different.

Example it's usually claimed by other denominations that Catholics practices idolatry by having statues etc. If that claim was true, how is it that I can be born again and do all the miracles in our Lord's name ? Obviously neither Roman Catholics nor does the Roman Catholic practices idolatry. The statues in Catholic Churches serves as a reminder to all Catholics about our Heavenly family, something like a picture of my parent-in-law deceased that I keep at home, a bigger picture and a small picture which carry with me at all times. I myself will leave my own faith if I start worshipping to statues or anything if the Catholic Church tried to impose on its followers to start worshipping statues.

This is just one example only. The last time someone told me is that there are 32,000 different Christian denominations around the world but I still cannot imagine how on earth there are so many denominations when there is just 1 Gospel only to begin with !!!

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Oct 31 2018, 06:47 PM

Dear brother in Christ,
That 'special grace', I won't say that we don't have that grace... Today we are living and comes to believe in Him, is all his grace, we're under his grace but we who are living have been chosen with a task to be Christian soldiers to preach on... God has his plan, has his way beyond our understanding. In regard of consistent and fair, I too have asked this question before and I found this Roman 9:14~29 is about God's Sovereign Choice.

About qualifying the factors of salvation, actually no one qualifies... it is all by God's grace and not by works, so that no one could boast (Ephe 2:8~9). Baptism, foot washing, Holy Communion, 10 commandments is what he has given to us by his grace for salvation. We're not perfect but he wants us to do our best to strive for perfection. To do our best to be holy. To do our best to follow him, follow his truth. What God have commanded and taught us to do, we be obedient, do and trust in him. There are things we might not fully understand yet, have hope that someday we will.

Hope this helps.
God bless!

This post has been edited by GirlOnaMission: Oct 31 2018, 10:36 PM

Is God consistent & fair according to the limitation of the human mind ? What about the Scriptures that says, are you jealous that I Am generous with regard to its parable ? Or what about the Scriptures which says, My ways are above your ways and My thoughts are above your thoughts.

In fact, we should all rejoice like angels in heaven, when a brethren is admitted into heaven regardless of whatever religious background one is from.

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Nov 1 2018, 04:57 AM

Hello penguin, i know it's youuuuu!!!! Hi hi hi hi!





Ahh, yes......Speaking in tongues......tempest in a teapot. Pls carry on.......




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Hello GirlOnaMission,

apart from tongues, are prophesies & healings regular occurrences in your church?