The Lamb is worshipped

Rev 5

6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

Ex 20

2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

WHO has the power to forgive sins?


Mk 2

3 And they come unto him, bringing one sick of the palsy, which was borne of four.
4 And when they could not come nigh unto him for the press, they uncovered the roof where he was: and when they had broken it up, they let down the bed wherein the sick of the palsy lay.
5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
6 But there was certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,
7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?
8 And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?
9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?
10 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)

3 of my posts were repprted. LOL

ALL of them are scriptures. LOL

He revealed Himself in the form of inspired prophecies from Genesis to Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ was revealed in human form for THREE long years. THAT is more than 3 secs!

Critics will always be critics. Nature of SIN.

It's quite strange that many go by proverbial slogan of salvation(justification) by faith ALONE or sola fide.


Yet James says....even devils have faith!


17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Luther had a hard time with the above. For simple reason. He did not understand what a Jew meant by faith (AMAN)

Hebrew faith is not a mental discourse. Unfortunately, the Greek word for faith(pistis) does not describe the Hebrew understanding of faith.
For Greeks, its more of a mental ascension.


Here we see James describing the real Jewish understanding of faith.
Jewish faith contains both pistis and ergon works.

Faith demands works of obedience.


Therefore, we see the faith works in many of the examples in scriptures

eg Abraham, who was 100 years young performing sexual intercourse with Sarah to fulfil the promise that God gave him

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

Therefore,

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only

Yes desmond.

Some define it as a mere intellect ascend. In fact many contemporaries do that. This is a Greco world view of faith, which is not the Jewish view of faith.
Thus, the contemporary church developed the altar call model, which supports an intellect ascend with futher requirements.

And to add to this support is the sola fide call of reformists, which essentially is a very strong call because of its roots in the reformation.

Unfortunately the call was IMO a reaction of Luther to the Roman church teachings of penance and works for salvation.
2 wrongs do not make a right.

True faith does not just produce good works.
True faith produces faith works. eg Abraham.
ALL the discourse on faith demands faith works, whether Abraham, Moses, David, etc.





Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.


So,

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Perhaps you could answer these questions first.

a) why did you think you were a Christian?

b) what do you think changed you to become an atheist?

Romans burnt lots of the original scripts while persecuting the Jews.

Do you think the NT was originally written in Hebrew?

There are scholars who have said when the Greek texts are translated back to Hebrew, the sentences in their right syntax and forms make more sense than in their Greek forms.

No. There are no manuscripts in hebrew.
However, these ear'y Christians are mostly Jewish. Reasonably they would converse in hebrew.
And as some Hebrew scholars are finding out, some of the sentnece syntax do not make sense in Greek, but makes perfect sense when translated back t Hebrew.

Not sure what you mean by handing or passing down of our Faith and living out the Faith?

Living out the Faith is instructed by scriptures. Therefore this is also part of the passing down of our Faith to future generations.

Of course where it differs most prominently with RCC is that your Roman traditions plays a great part of your Faith.
Which I am strongly against.

Perhaps you should read Romans 9 to 11 to understand the Jews and their legacy.

Reality may not be scriptural. It's a heritage as much as it's a personal thing. If you understand the handing down of the scriptures as a contemporary Christian, you are going to misunderstand many of the principles of the heritage handed down.

A key point would be parables of Jesus. How will you understand these without understanding the Jewish context?

It's a great heritage. That children are taught scriptures at a young age. For that is the first step of faith.

I think the RCC was an institution for control. The popes had great control over catholic monarchs in ancient days.
There was lots of corruption to maintain control through man made traditions, which is still taught today and used in RCC churches without due regard to scriptures.

RCs in general are not encouraged to study scriptures, whereas more emphasis is put on following traditions, purported passed down from the apostles. Therefore, many RCs just follow blindly their preists, never reading the scripture for themselves.

Traditions become their teaching tool.

Amen to that!

The only instruction/guide for life is the revelation of God through scriptures. Where else can we find life?
Otherwise we will be worshipping false gods through traditions, and that includes those who mix traditions with scriptures aka Easters, Christmas, etc.

That will probably get so some nerves here.

Generally they are not encouraged to study the scriptures.
Some like our brother here may do that.
However, the thing is, after studying the scriptures, they still practice the traditional rites, some which are in conflict with scriptures.
And justifying their actions by traditions and denying their acts being against scriptures. eg Marian worship

The issue with their 'adoration' borders on worship.




YOu shall have no other gods before me.


YOU shall not make any graven image and bow down before them



Conveniently forgotten.

Yes. I adore my parents. But I do not worship them on a pedestal.

Look at their catechism on their thread OP




You and i are not in church of Christ.


On Islam, it seems they are acknowledged in the plan of God's salvation



Look at this statement by the pope. Is this God's will?

It adds that “freedom is a right of every person: each individual enjoys the freedom of belief, thought, expression and action” and that “pluralism and the diversity of religions, colour, sex, race and language are willed by God”.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world...ae4ed35b05ac514

THAT was from their catechism.

It does not affect me. Only affects me in that their 'church' is an abomination to God in their gospel message.
Same goes for word faith churches.

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Feb 12 2019, 12:08 PM

Again...justifying the traditions of your worship which are obviously against God's will......sigh*

Does not mean the apostles are infallible. Peter demonstrated that clearly.