well gents, no one is saying one is save by work. 2hat I actually have problem is hypergrace / prosperity gospel / word of faith. UW typically post a subliminal messaging version of his good friend, Joseph prince prosperity gospel.


example being below. read it with your own eyes


Every time you confess, “I am the righteousness of God in Christ”, God the Father is pleased. When you confess that you are the righteousness of God in Christ, it reminds Him of what His Son has done for you to become righteous.

Also, by making you righteous, God is showing Himself righteous—“to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus”. (Romans 3:26)

Each time Jesus hears you confess, “I am the righteousness of God in Christ,” it brings much pleasure to His heart too, because you are laying hold of what He suffered and died to give you.

The Holy Spirit, who now indwells you to convict you of righteousness (John 16:10), also rejoices when you confess, “I am the righteousness of God in Christ.” He is pleased when you flow with Him.

The delight of the Godhead is not the only thing you gain when you declare, “I am the righteousness of God in Christ.” The Bible tells us that when you “seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness…all these things shall be added to you”. (Matthew 6:33)

Whether it is food, clothing or other necessities in life, “all these things” will be added to you. They will not just be given to you, but added to you as your inheritance when you seek first His righteousness.

You don’t need to use your faith for every single need in life. You just need to use your faith for one thing—to believe that you are the righteousness of God in Christ, and it will cause all the blessings you seek to come after you and overtake you!

© Copyright Joseph Prince, 2008–2018

of course, only UW is right. what more do you want?


you want people to praise your prosperity gospel?

or believe in what your good friend Joseph prince teach?

actually for a guy that believe that only two Jews enter promised land, I shouldn't take you seriously. because you obviously dont know what you are talking about.

let be Frank, I have no interest in answering your rhetoric question which obvious motive is to mix truth and lie.

who care about you? you think you are the one sitting on the throne on judgment day?

you think too much

go play with your fake preacher friend Joseph prince



you are the bugger who reply to my post first. in actuality I am always not in mood to interact with a fake teacher.


so please spare me your sermon. I had no interest in it. and frankly if you want you should just preach at calvary church.


so dont reply to my post again. I had no interest whatsoever on your opinion.

eh


you are talking about abraham?


abraham sleeping with hagar is because he doubt God's promise. this action is not born out of faith.


however, later he realise and god did make good his promise


hence if work is born of genuine faith then it is good.


did I get that right?

same when God ask abraham to sacrifice isaac.


anyway

this is very interesting


because this suggest the existence of faith that dont produce good work


did I understand you correctly?

In John 15
5 I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.


"if you remains in me" what does that means?

jesus has make it very clear that one have to hear the truth and then do as commanded

if you talk about crippled man then I recall a man know as Nick Vujicic


did you know.him?

well, I see it as demonstration of god's perfection by the faith of crippled person. it can be said that work and faith is the two side of same coin. you cant separate good work from genuine faith


this is being plainly detailed by book of james.


no one think justification need work. but genuine and active faith must demonstrate good work / bear fruits.

good thief? I prefer to term it as penitent thief. he have more good work than most of us ever will have




THE PENITENT THIEF: A MODEL OF TRUE REPENTANCE?

J.C. RYLE

Many people look at the broad fact that the penitent thief crucified with Jesus was saved in the hour of death, but examine no further (Luke 23:39-43). They do not look at the distinct and well-defined evidences of repentance that fell from his lips before he died. Those evidences deserve our closest attention.Genesis 1:2-7

The first notable step in the thief's repentance was his concern about his companion's wickedness in reviling Christ. "Do you not fear God," he said, "seeing you are in the same condemnation."

The second step was a full acknowledgment of his own sin. "We indeed are just in condemnation. We receive the due reward of our deeds."

The third step was an open confession of Christ's innocence. "This man has done nothing amiss."

The fourth step was faith in Jesus Christ's power and will to save him. He turned to a crucified sufferer, and called Him "Lord," and declared his belief that He had a kingdom.

The fifth step was prayer. He cried to Jesus when he was hanging on the cross and asked Him - even then - to intercede for him.

The sixth and last step was humility. He begged to be "remembered" by our Lord. He mentions no great thing. Enough for him if he is remembered by Christ.

These six points should always be remembered in connection with the penitent thief. His time was very short for giving proof of his conversion. But it was time well spent. Few dying people have ever left behind them such good evidences as have been left by this man.

so what is jesus and holy spirit then? is jesus God?

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Aug 3 2018, 11:10 AM

Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John, to be baptized by him. John would have prevented him, saying, "I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?" But Jesus answered him, "Let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness." Then he consented. And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; and behold, a voice from heaven said, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased."
Matthew 3:13‭-‬17 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.3.13-17.ESV


so three modes can be manifested at the same time?

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Aug 3 2018, 01:14 PM

that is interesting


do you believe baptism in jesus name only?

Paul is what we called Christian oppressor prior jesus revealation to him, I ca. imagine he have blood of Christian on his hand. there is no one sin greater than another because it have been said that when you violate even what you think as smallest commandment, you violate the whole law.

that is what perplexes me


trinity doctrine predate john Calvin by at least 1500 years


also that time is when doctrine of modalism being coined by sabbellius

Jews also believe jesus is not God

when UW talk about context, you know it is time to leave the room

from BBC on trinity


Introduction to the TrinityThe core belief

The doctrine of the Trinity is the Christian belief that:

There is One God, who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Trinitarian stained glass window ©

Other ways of referring to the Trinity are the Triune God and the Three-in-One.

The Trinity is a controversial doctrine; many Christians admit they don't understand it, while many more Christians don't understand it but think they do.

In fact, although they'd be horrified to hear it, many Christians sometimes behave as if they believe in three Gods and at other times as if they believe in one.

Trinity Sunday, which falls on the first Sunday after Pentecost, is one of the few feasts in the Christian calendar that celebrate a doctrine rather than an event.

Find the date for Trinity Sunday 2014 in the multifaith calendar

A fundamental doctrine

The doctrine of the Trinity is one of the most difficult ideas in Christianity, but it's fundamental to Christians because it:

states what Christians believe God is like and who he is

plays a central part in Christians' worship of an "unobjectifiable and incomprehensible God"

emphasises that God is very different from human beings

reflects the ways Christians believe God encounters them

is a central element of Christian identity

teaches Christians vital truths about relationship and community

reveals that God can be seen only as a spiritual experience whose mystery inspires awe and cannot be understood logically

Unpacking the doctrine

The idea that there is One God, who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit means:

There is exactly one God

The Father is God

The Son is God

The Holy Spirit is God

The Father is not the Son

The Son is not the Holy Spirit

The Father is not the Holy Spirit



An alternate way of explaining it is:

There is exactly one God
There are three really distinct Persons - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit
Each of the Persons is God

Common mistakes

The Trinity is not

Three individuals who together make one God
Three Gods joined together
Three properties of God

Top

Bible and why Christians believe in the TrinityThe Bible and why Christians believe in the Trinity

Christianity adopted this complicated idea of God because it was the only way they could make sense of One God in the context of the events and teaching of the Bible.

The idea of the Trinity does not supersede monotheism; it interprets it, in the light of a specific set of revelatory events and experiences.

Keith Ward, Religion and Creation, 1996

Encounters with God

Humanity met God in three different forms:

God the Father: revealed by the Old Testament to be Creator, Lord, Father and Judge.
God the Son: who had lived on earth amongst human beings
God the Holy Spirit: who filled them with new life and powerWhat the Bible taught

The Bible taught that Christians were to worship Father and Son and Holy Spirit. It also taught that Christians should only worship God. Finally, it taught that there was only one God:

We must worship only God
We must worship God the Father
We must worship God the Son
We must worship God the Holy Spirit
There is only one God

This seemed to put Christians in an impossible position from which they were rescued by the doctrine of the Trinity, which solved the puzzle by stating that God must be simultaneously both Three and One.

Scripture and the Trinity

For obvious reasons the Trinity is not referred to in the Old Testament, although many writers think that the Old Testament does drop heavy hints about it - for example when it uses a plural Hebrew noun to refer to God.

The New Testament of the Bible never explicitly refers to the Trinity as such, but it does contain a number of references to the Economic Trinity:

Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 28:19

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

2 Corinthians 13:14

One text that is often quoted to provide scriptural authority for the doctrine of the Trinity is now thought to have been added to the text much later, and with the specific purpose of justifying the doctrine.

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one

The mystery of the Trinity: (1+1+1=1) = Nonsense!

This idea that three persons add up to one individual seems like nonsense. And logically, it is.

So Christians don't try to understand the doctrine of the Trinity logically or as a problem of arithmetic.

Unfortunately most other attempts to explain the Trinity don't really capture the concept either, or are very difficult to understand.

God is not like us

One way out of the problem is to say that God is not like human beings and human beings get in a mess when they try to describe God using the same sort of language and understanding that they use to describe other human beings.

But human beings don't have any other language available, so they have to do the best that they can with it. That's fine, as long as they remember that the whole truth of the nature of God is simply beyond them.

So the doctrine of the Trinity only attempts to provide a rudimentary sketch of the mystery of God's nature, rather than a full description of what God is like. God is a mystery, before which humanity should stand in awe.

Why the Trinity is important

Before trying to understand the doctrine of the Trinity, it's vital to realise why it's important.

Its purpose is not to provide factual knowledge of God's hidden nature of the sort that describes a dog as "having 4 legs, fur, barks, bites, domesticated by humankind etc".

The doctrine of the Trinity has other functions:

it brings humanity face to face with the mystery of Godit helps humanity recognise the God they meet in the Bible, in history and in their own livesit helps humanity understand God's complexity, otherness and mysteryit helps humanity worship Godit steers humanity away from wrong ideas of God, such as:a patriarchal/hierarchical Goda God who can be logically understoodit is the foundation of much Christian worship and liturgyit helps humanity understand its own nature as made in the image of Godit provides a model for human relationships, both as individuals and in community

So, for example, one might be inspired by the doctrine of the Trinity to come up with an understanding of human relationships that was something like this...

Human beings are made in the image of GodGod is a community of persons in a mutual loving relationshipTherefore the essence of humanity is to be found in human relationships with others, with God, and with God's creationThese relationships are filled with transforming powerFor human beings to live truly in the image of God, these relationships must be mutual, generous and justThese relationships must acknowledge and value difference as well as samenessThese relationships must accept as well as give

That's one way in which contemplating the Trinity might provide useful information for a Christian as to how they should try to live their life.

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Aug 8 2018, 02:29 PM

Michael Servetus is dead meat wherever he was in 15 century Europe. it is just a matter of whether catholic or protestant get him first. before he go to Geneva, he is already sentenced to death by inquisition. and due to his escape, they have to burn him on stake in effigy. in Geneva he is spotted by clavisnist and then he was arrested and trial by civil magistrate. he is not prosecuted by john Calvin but rather another guy who is known to john enemy. so council of Geneva decided to burn him on stake.


a man as Michael Servetus who ideas bordered on blasphemy is being regarded as martyr and founding father by unitarians


it is of course not right to burn someone alive. but I can imagine the hand of protestant is tight, because at time they are regarded as patron of heretic and being soft.