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 LYN Christian Fellowship V14 (Group)

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desmond2020
post Jul 17 2018, 09:48 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Jul 17 2018, 09:23 AM)
Yes. I agree.

But for some people, Romans 9 to 11 do not exist. For them Romans is just a sin and justification epistle.
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well, that escalate quickly


on the other extreme side, we have Zionism Christian.



desmond2020
post Jul 17 2018, 10:02 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Jul 17 2018, 09:51 AM)
Well

It's true.  Modern Christians may not associate with Replacement theology directly.
But in their claims and practices, its replacement theology thinking. 

Zionism Christian is a new term to me.
*
well


I believe in only one convenant, the one written with blood of jesus. if one reject jesus then God will reject him. because jesus is only way to God.

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Jul 17 2018, 10:05 AM
desmond2020
post Jul 17 2018, 10:08 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Jul 17 2018, 10:06 AM)
Well.

Scriptures is more than about our salvation in Christ. There is also His-story and His future. That is just Christology.

Israel is God's fig tree. A tale tell of the signs of the times to come. God has put all these in His scriptures. Let's study it.
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you mean there is salvation other than christ?
desmond2020
post Jul 17 2018, 10:12 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Jul 17 2018, 10:10 AM)
Read properly before you jump the gun.
Christology. Prophecy. ALL part of scriptures. What is scripture for?
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I figure you talk about what left of Jews at end of time will believe in God and be saved



but currently at present time, I don't think it is happening, ie Jews all believe in jesus

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Jul 17 2018, 10:13 AM
desmond2020
post Jul 17 2018, 10:20 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Jul 17 2018, 10:16 AM)
Well

There are Messianic Jews presently. So its happening.

However, at the end, national Israel will see Him as their Messiah

8 In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lord before them.
9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
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in other word, they are still rebellious against God at current stage and their heart is hardened


is that right?
desmond2020
post Jul 17 2018, 11:35 AM

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Then you will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.
Romans 11:19‭-‬24 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/rom.11.19-24.


again, conditional on faith to jesus christ
desmond2020
post Jul 17 2018, 01:28 PM

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The Lord said, "Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do, seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him? For I have chosen him, that he may command his children and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord by doing righteousness and justice, so that the Lord may bring to Abraham what he has promised him." Then the Lord said, "Because the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is great and their sin is very grave, I will go down to see whether they have done altogether according to the outcry that has come to me. And if not, I will know."
Genesis 18:17‭-‬21 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/gen.18.17-21.ESV
desmond2020
post Jul 23 2018, 01:46 PM

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QUOTE(niceguy_ @ Jul 23 2018, 01:11 PM)
relationship is idol? but God created women for man? Why God jealous when you love your wife?
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love come in four different words in Greeks

god's love is agape love, which is very different from other kind of love, like phileo love- between friend and siblings kind of love
desmond2020
post Jul 23 2018, 01:48 PM

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QUOTE(niceguy_ @ Jul 23 2018, 01:47 PM)
I'm not asking what love is, you're not answering the question.
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the question is, did you want your question to be answered?
desmond2020
post Jul 25 2018, 09:44 AM

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For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2:8‭-‬10 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/eph.2.8-10.ESV


when hyper grace talk about salvation by faith, he will quote verse 8 and 9 then conveniently miss out verse 10.


strictly no work what so ever for them.
desmond2020
post Jul 25 2018, 09:57 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jul 25 2018, 09:49 AM)
It says there Salvation is a Gift, not a result of works.

The works part doesn't come from you anyway. It comes from God.

Don't just quote that few verses. Take a look at another verse
Philippians 2:13 (NIV) - for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.
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this lead to book of james which hyper grace don't like or say it is only for Jews


What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, "You have faith and I have works." Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"—and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.
James 2:14‭-‬26 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/jas.2.14-26.ESV
desmond2020
post Jul 25 2018, 09:59 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jul 25 2018, 09:58 AM)
to which I've explained before....Justification before Man. I never say it's for the Jews.
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that is very interesting theology you have there
desmond2020
post Jul 25 2018, 10:10 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Jul 25 2018, 10:05 AM)
Love Demands Action
Grace Demands Action
Faith Demands Action
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.  nod.gif
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amen to that


"Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it."
Matthew 7:24‭-‬27 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.7.24-27.ESV
desmond2020
post Jul 25 2018, 10:12 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jul 25 2018, 10:00 AM)
Look at who the writer is hinting to. He's talking about horizontal.
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justification before men, horizontal or whatever is your word


not what bible said
desmond2020
post Jul 25 2018, 10:18 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jul 25 2018, 10:15 AM)
but that is what the Bible is saying, not me.

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, "You have faith and I have works." Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"—and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.
James 2:14‭-‬26 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/jas.2.14-26.ESV

Who is the writer hinting to? God or Man? Who needs the food, cloth, Protection (Rahab) etc? Who is being justified here? Who is "show me" And "I will show you" & "You see" referring to?
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I don't do davinci code as method of bible study


so sorry don't work for me
desmond2020
post Jul 25 2018, 10:28 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jul 25 2018, 10:26 AM)
Okay I will try another way to help you understand.

The way to understand this is to understand, the Bible does not contradict itself, you agree?

If Ephesians 2:8 says:

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--

And

Look at these few other verses:

Romans 3:24
and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

Romans 9:16
So then, it does not depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.

Ephesians 2:5
made us alive with Christ, even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved!

All these verses dismantle the dependency of works. And Romans 11:6 nails it quite strongly

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

If you say the Book of James advocate justification for works..the all those verses just flew out of the window.

So which is which now?
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you are putting word in my mouth again


I never say justified by work, that is what hyper grace typical allege their opponent is


I quote bible and you put word into it


FAITH DEMANDS ACTION


DID YOU UNDERSTAND IT?

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Jul 25 2018, 10:30 AM
desmond2020
post Jul 25 2018, 10:38 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jul 25 2018, 10:32 AM)
Do you also agree Fruits of the Holy Spirit is the result of the works you demand to see?
Do you also Agree God is the one who does the internal work first before you are able to do good works?

Question: how do you get the fruits? You force it out by your will power?
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I just very sure tha one cant get HS by reading UW sermon
desmond2020
post Jul 26 2018, 08:31 AM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Jul 26 2018, 07:20 AM)
I am trying to follow but just to make sure that I am understanding it right, is this discussion now ...

1. Salvation comes from faith alone ; OR
2. Salvation comes from both faith & good works.

Hence the question which is which, right or did I miss out anything substantial in between ?
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to be Frank hyper grace or easy believism people think you just need to believe to be saved. so far so good right? then they believe any work is not allowed, you only need to believe and receiving.


that seems to suggest there are genuine faith that dont produce good work.


book of james never suggest salavation by work. it just saying genuine faith is inseparable from good work because good work complete the faith.


end of rant.
desmond2020
post Jul 26 2018, 02:42 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jul 26 2018, 02:20 PM)
Well if God defends and provide people who "easily" believe in Him and it's working proof that the doctrine is correct then I rather subscribe to that than what you think works.

Because if you could share your testimony to what you believe in, how have God been working in your life, would you care to share?

Whether you use the word good works completes Faith or it's "inseparable", in other words, good works is required for Salvation no matter you word it and you know that is how the rationality is.
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work complete faith is direct quote from bible


if you have problem with bible then probably you should change to other religion
desmond2020
post Jul 26 2018, 06:55 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jul 26 2018, 03:49 PM)
Well because, in your earlier post, you mentioned

"to be Frank hyper grace or easy believism people think you just need to believe to be saved. so far so good right? then they believe any work is not allowed, you only need to believe and receiving."

Implying works is needed to be saved.

Then later you said

"book of james never suggest salavation by work"

So which is which?

Erm, I don't have problem with the Bible, just your unqualified attack, I have a problem with.
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not only you have problem of selective reading the bible. you have also selective memory


here you are below, doubting the bible in your own word. mind you work complete faith is direct quote from bible



quote


Whether you use the word good works completes Faith or it's "inseparable", in other words, good works is required for Salvation no matter you word it and you know that is how the rationality is.


unquote

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