Still don't understand?

My point was don't get flat out to achieve "retirement" as in FIRE, so you can do gardening after "retirement".

Have some balance. You don't undertand still, I cannot provide any more enlightenment.

Sacrifice early for future happiness, I will go for it.

It is not only about money, it translated to more free time.

More time to help you keep up with long lost family, doing volunteering, traveling, doing part times, etc.

Not everyone loves what they are doing but stay put because of the good package they received. (One type of sacrifice)


Anyway, I respect your input and wish you good luck!

Let me give you my example. Working 12h+/day with only one day off/week. Mine working hours are basically about 14h/day How are you going to find balance after work? I am all ears to suggestion.

I was simply saying that there is no clear line before/after that you need to achieve as far as retirement is concerned.

You need to consider what before/after factors are relevant to your way of thinking, and your personal circumstances.

But I would suggest that if you are working 12h+/day, you need to get higher paying jobs which includes getting degrees/diplomas/certificates. With PTPTN, you can get loans and qualifications.

Spend more time on getting a qualification, and less time on forums.

This 3% number is from a investment bank i.e. independent, is consistent with data from epf.

If you consider the average house price, as well as the number of Mercedes, BMW, Camry, Accords around, and 20k earners, you can see the 3% is too low.

Got a link?

Many of these are bought with borrowing, which is reflected in elevated household debt.

Actually my job requires a degree. No qualification, can't get in. Well that's what you get for working in Malaysia without proper labour laws. People in other country in the same field works like only 8 hours and get much higher paid.

Agreed. 3% is too low and when was this data publish.

Numbers published yearly, about 3% was last year.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Jul 4 2018, 12:09 AM

I believe everyone have their own plan post-FIRE.

For myself it is simple. Free time I will dedicate to myself, family and giving back to society.

Pre-FIRE, I’m one of the lucky guy that while saving 50-60% of salary, my family don’t have to live too frugal. Thanks to company that provided me full expat package. Earning USD and spending with lower currency is a good stuffs.

Also back in Malaysia,
- No car loan (settled)
- No Personal Loan
- No PTPTN Loan
- No outstanding on Credit Card

Post- FIRE targeting to live same or slightly below what we are now. Insurance as usual, education fund for kids ready (fully paid property), excess money for charity works & travel oversea at least once a year.

Remember we will have different numbers to achieve FIRE but let it be reasonable and achievable. Most importantly we have free time to choose what we want to do to make us happy and lively.

"FIRE" is a scam ! Sorry to burst the bubble for those young ones who posted here....

It's a scam devised by the elderly, society, parents, bosses, including MLM/insurance etc (collectively known as "beneficiaries") so that the beneficiaries can motivate young people to work hard for them

It's a carrot that looks sweet, but eventually if you get it, it is just a normal plain old carrot.

The whole FIRE concept is wrong in the first place. It assumes "work life is shit, and retirement is heaven". For those young people who suffer much while working, it fits perfectly into their true experience. But no, the assumption is not correct.

Have you considered that to be in the heaven, you not only require financial freedom ? To be able to just live day-to-day plain survival life, you will not enjoy life. Meaning if you just watch TV, surf internet, gardening, exercise, (and all those activities that cost very little) which you thought is stress free and enjoyable life, then you will find out soon human beings are species which will get bored easily. Human needs more than food to live happily. Human is also greedy so living with minimum necessity will not make him/her happy.

In other words, human needs a lot of other stuff besides money to be happy. Love, sense of success, recognition, health, to be the best in the field, seeing people around you to be successful and happy......etc etc depending on individuals

Come back to the assumption that "work life is shit, retirement is heaven". If you feel that work is shit, then you are just pushing the blame to the boss. The core problem is not with the work, but your attitude ! The fact is you cannot face stress in your life. Who told you making money and work is easy in the first place ? They are not ! So, if you change your attitude that work is not easy and you have to deal with problems everyday, eventually you will get used to the stress, and work is no more shit. Work and problems are normal phenomenon which happens everyday. You should be happy there are problems for you to solve. Otherwise, you are redundant and have no job !

If there is no problem for one day, that is just a bonus, but entitlement.

If you can get your perspective right, then you will look at the problem as a challenge. If you can overcome any challenge in life, then nothing will make you unhappy.

I don't expect young people to understand and appreciate what I said. Because when I was young, I think like all of you too. But as you experience life when it unfolds, both extreme happy and sad events, you will reach a stage that everyday is a blessing to you. Work or retire has no difference anymore. No more mood difference be it a Monday or Friday. Work is just a small part of your life. There are many more important stuff.

So, don't be influenced by the FIRE concept. It tells you life is a drink which tastes bitter first, sweet later. Is the drink taste all the same for everybody ? Most probably not. What if you find out your drink also taste bitter later ? It will be too late.

If you can ditch the FIRE concept, change your attitude towards life, then you actually start enjoying a nice drink (with all taste of life) for the remaining 50-70 years...

It is only logical that only a small % of population can achieve FIRE, especially early FIRE. Otherwise, there won't be enough rats running in the treadmill to generate power to sustain the whole society. So, how to become the minority? To do what the majority can't or won't do. Spending is easy. Saving is hard. So, u must do the opposite. Savings is earnings less spending. Do your best to climb up the ladddr to increase earnings. Then, while earnings increase, do not increase spending like most people do. Maintain spending, increase savings. Invest the savings. That's it.

Many aim to achieve FIRE before age 40. Close to impossible unless u live like a monk after that. Why quit when earnings is at its highest? Delay to about 45 to 50 at least would be good. Meantime, I know it sounds contradictory, but u dun want to live like a peasant now. Whatever people enjoy now, u also go for it but less frequently. It's a fine line.. because spending begets more spending. This is where discipline comes in. Otherwise, life is too dull. Why sit at home when u r most youthful. Go for those low expense activities. "You dun want to save up sex for when u r old."..Warran Buffett.

Try me bro. I eat the same food in out on a daily basis (prepared at home). But I never get tired of them. Why? Because
1) I make sure they are nice
2) and all food turns to shit.

For me, nutritional value of the food is better than the taste. Again try me bro. I have the cash to buy the latest gadget, cars, indulge in YOLO lifestyle, go for overseas vocation but I don't. I don't follow the herd mentality of YOLO. I don't need those "wants" nor do I intend or embrace them. I prefer my simple lifestyle. Why do you think my friends look at me one kind when I am talking about FIRE, savings, investing? It's because they are not doing that and don't see the urgency for it. They prefer to "live the moment". They are eagerly awaiting the month's paycheck as
1) their bank account is dry
2) eager to go shopping/indulge in good food/go on expensive vacation.

I look forward to the month's paycheck too but not for the reasons above. I look forward as it's a means to increase my warchest, ready for deployment.

I don't drink starbucks/dine at fancy restaurants/o high tea/ buffet or buy branded clothes, buy apple products (except their ipad which I am still using to this day - ipad air 2). My clothes are all pasar malam/bundle shops clothes. My sandals cost < RM10/pair and can last a year. My Laptop and my phones last min 5 years. I eat at your regular economy rice stall. So try me bro.


Businesses will hate people like me as I don't spend. I only spend when is needed.

For me, I like the option to work or not to work rather than force to work.

The concept of FIRE is having the option to work or not to work and not force to work. o need to worry about when the next paycheck is coming in/no need to worry whether you will be retrench.

Agreed. If more and more people get into FIRE, there's nothing to power the economy as consumerism will drop. Again agreed. Never let inflation lifestyle hit you.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Jul 4 2018, 10:35 AM

I agreed on FI, but not RE.

FI is a good goal to set upon, so that one can escape the rat race.

RE - it sounds glamour for younger generation.

Why it sounds glamour? Because we (or majority youngster) are in rat race, need to work long hours, little time and money to pursuit personal interest due to work commitment etc.
But once you get older enough and accumulate decent wealth aka FI, then the mindset might be change completely.

It is just like 20~30 years ago, eating outside like having dinner at fast food chain, seems like luxury, sound glamour, many people/kids are happy can get a meal at there.

But 30 years later, when majority people earning power increased, then taking fast food everyday is seemed become a non-healthy life by some.

So the view can change, so does on the RE issue.

So work on FI, and forget about RE.

You can't be RE when you don't have FI. Only think on RE when the time arrived.
Personally, I think RE is a bad concept to be introduced especially to youngster. More often I see RE being used/exploited in marketing tool to lure people into something vested interest purpose only.

More effort should be on FI, how to work towards it.

I think both is relevant as it let my generations know they have a choice then working paycheck to paycheck. The question is are they willing to take the leap of faith to start their journey towards FIRE.

The question is how many are willing to forgo their current lifestyle?

A lot of time, I see FIRE being used/exploited thoroughly (like selling "dream) in MLMs, or something try to lure investors or recruitment purposes, instead talking about how to achieve FI, or proper personal financial planning.

Age 25, aim to retire at 45 with RM500k in ASX while pay off all debts and live happily ever after. Why is it impossible?

Agree. Funny to see youngsters nowadays say want to retire by 30y/o.
Not impossible, but they don't know how much they need to do/sacrifice including face, friend, social life JUST FOR THAT UNSURE RE.

Once, a friend of mine ask me, what will you do if you have RM1mil now?
My 1st answer, do business and retire loh! That is what majority ppl will answer.
but wait, do business doesn't mean you retire. As long as you still need to watch that shop, you're not even near to retire.

My next answer, put 1mil in long term investment that can give at least 4-6% interest per year.
With that, you could have passive income of ~4-5k monthly and retire. Why not?

I would like to join this FIRE community too, as I have been working on it for years. I have joined the workforce for 3 years now since I quit my long stint in entrepreneurship and doing few years of freelance jobs, and I am 33 this year.
Currently in a stable job and being able to save in between 65% - 70% of my NET take home salary (after deduction of EPF/Socso/PCB). I live quite a comfortable lifestyle and providing for my mother. Apart from my employment salary, I have also built up a passive income of approximately 30% of my GROSS salary (which is tax free).

Based on my calculation (barring any unforeseen circumstances and assuming NO increment in savings amount) and a timeframe of 12 years (until I am 45), I should be able to achieve 100% of my current GROSS salary post-FIRE, while maintaining my lifestyle or possibly upgrading my lifestyle to include more travelling if the inflation remains low.

I agree that we need to work towards FI first. That will be the hard part.
Then we will have option whether to go for RE or continue working.

I see people misunderstand the concept of RE. It is not completely retire and doing nothing the rest of our life. But rather stop working on what we have to do and start working what we want to do. So, there many things that we can do out there.

Most of the time we see people not willing to give up YOLO attitude and trying to impress other people with what we have.

“We buy things we don't need with money we don't have to impress people we don't like."

Buying luxury things and living YOLO style will not give us permanent happiness.

And I believe can live moderately as same lifestyle while continue to have "happiness" factor in daily life.

I felt sorry for some of my friends which having good paycheck, buying Mercedes/GTR and living hipster kind of lifestyle while do not having an investment other than their own house.

In my industry which is depending much on the Oil Price, having a good financial planning and saving rate and good investment is a must.

During good old days, people especially US guys stock up with new boats and trucks (I guess in Malaysia also same) and when downturn, they are crying when get retrenched.
Thats is 40-50 years old guys. Crying!

-So start early, save and invest wisely to achieve FI, Then we have luxury to choose RE or not-

#I'm not selling anything so there is no taking advantage session here, just sharing.