hi people, this question may be thrown around like tonnes of time dee but i wanted some feedback for improvements nonetheless

So far whats happening for me is that i started to work out seriously at home since march, using the stronglift 5x5 as base + others that i think would be useful. started out as a skinnyfat 176cm 66kg that time, with last i weigh in being 68+kg now after 4 months-ish. still skinnyfat but at least shoulder and arms more definition now

what i have as weights at home is a 1x5kg fixed weight dumbell and 25kg EZ curl barbell (4x5kg plates, bar estimated at 5kg). this is normally my routine every alternate days in a week. below routine usually finish in 1-1 1/2hrs

barbell lift (25kg), 12,10,8,6,6 (last 2 set 6 rep is failure)
barbell row (25kg), 25,25,25,25
shoulder shrugs (25), 30,30,30
barbell curl (15), 20,18,16,14,14 (25kg curls barely 5reps before break form)
concentration curl (5), 20,20,20
side raise (5), 15,15,15,15
front raise (5), 15,15,15
tricep curl (5), 20,20,20 (sometimes with barbell 15kg)
dumbbell bentover row (5), 25,25,25
squats (25), 15,15,15
sitting calf raise (25), 100,100,100
sit-ups, 10,10,10

once a week add ons
deadlift(25), 25,25,25
push-ups, 10,8,8
plank for 45sec


not sure if my current routine is decent enough to continue onwards until my desired size (lean with emphasis on broad shoulders) and weight (73-75kg). was thinking to achieve that in 9-12 months range but without supplements like protein shake etc. seems like a far cry now though at the rate im progressing as im not doing any counting on my protein+carb intake

what do you think i could improve with my limited equipment? or should i invest further and actually join a gym to hit the heavier weights/better equips?

How do you know you are skinny fat? Do you have skinny arms but fat around the tummy? (Hips wider than shoulder).

You should start tracking your macros, even before you decide to gain muscle or lose fat.

Hitting the gym is a good idea as your progress will be limited with your equipments.

100 reps for 3 sets of calf raises? Your routine is good because I can see a variety of exercises targeting different parts of your body however the number of reps/sets you have for them proves that they no longer challenge you. There is an optimal range of sets and reps that stimulate muscle growth and most believe it is between 8-12 reps and 3-4 sets. Anything beyond that means you should raise the weights.

Joining a gym would be the best choice to meet your fitness goal.

kinda obvious, as i have what they called the love handles, though my belly doesnt bulge

in worse case scenario, if i didnt track macros, if i were to supplement with just protein shakes, is that okay?


yeah just for seated calf raises though, things like barbell curl with 25kg is still beyond me, though i think 18-20kg should be doable with decent rep and sets

yeah but this is the weird part, noticeable there are strength increases but i still dont feel like the strength is proportionate to the body figure (is this normal?)

my friend, you need to track your macros (protein, carbs & fat) & total calories, then only you can know whether you need protein shake or not.

calculate your TDEE (you can find calculators online). based on your profile, i think your TDEE should be around 2200'ish calories. this would be your maintenance. eat around this for another 1-2 months, while you learn about lifting techniques.

whether you should eat more (to build muscle) or eat less (lose fat) than your TDEE, it depends on how much bodyfat level you are on at the moment - best to get it measured by a proper scale. for skinnyfatters, it is good to get lean first (lose fat) before you can build muscles. if your bodyfat is above 20%, the more you eat, most likely you will become the bigger version of skinnyfat person. get lean at least below 15% bodyfat and then you can start to bulk up.

to build muscle, you need to build strength, hence hitting the gym is a good idea as you will have access to more weights and machines. if you can't, then start incorporating bodyweight exercises such as pull ups & dips. these are good for upper body strength.

yeah thanks for the tips, was really unsure on the protein part. normal day meals for me usually standard chinese fare. breakfast 1-2 pieces of bread with peanut butter, lunch either bowl of noodles or chapfan (1 vege 1 meat), dinner about the same as chapfan

no proper gauge on the body fat %, but i daresay i should be close to 20% maybe more.

what are the chances of me hitting 74kg (at least) with 15% body fat with the same exercises (but pushing heavier weights) within the remaining 8 months?

Looking at your rep ranges, IMO, they are too light for you. You want to challenge, not destroy. You want to push through it, not cruise through it.

Go to a gym. Follow some beginner programs that you think you can follow. If you are fat now, regardless of whatever kind of fat, eat below your TDEE by some 10+ to 20%, but keep the protein constant. I will say 1g/ lbs. Just go in and bust your ass off on the strength base training. With those strength, you will be able to feel things better and move better with the lighter "accessories" moves. Forget about whatever definition or result in the mirror for now. It will come soon. Get stronger. It will benefit you in a long run IF you do it in correct form.

Eat properly. Know your TDEE and eat as above. If you do not know what you are eating fairly accurately, you are shooting in the dark trying to hit a frog in the pond. Set up TDEE, partition P/F/C, learn how to estimate the calories in each food, weight them if you have to, calculate if you have to, use myfitnesspal if you are that lazy, then eat.

Sleep properly. Just sleep. Sleep for recovery.

And oh, you do not need whatever shakes if you do not know how much you need and how much you have consumed. If your normal food you are already consuming 200g protein, you go drink extra shake for what? If you eat only 20g of protein and that shake only supplements 25g, when you need 150g in a day, you go drink for what? For that extra 25g? If you do not know you need 150g and you ate 100g, how do you know you need 2 serving of whey that day? Or you just intend to shoot without knowing?

This post has been edited by lingleeyen: Jun 25 2018, 03:01 PM

looking at gym sub options atm, think might settle with Chi-Fitness, closest and decently priced

What do you think about the current program so far? anything you would suggest to add on? sadly to say as much as important strength training is, i still think of aesthetics first

Curl all you want man. AFAIK, It wont bring you far. There is a reason why those proven worked beginners' program do not have only mickey mouse workouts.

My friend, you need to gain strength to gain size. You dont have to lift balls out like a powerlifter but to get bigger, you need to get stronger to lift more weight. Progression is key.

Dude, your workouts looks nothing like stronglift. Get a gym membership and stick with a program. Dont modify a program if you are a beginner.

8 months? currently 68kg? try 3yrs?

i know isolation is super limited la, thus im doing compound as much as i can. its so much more fun than isolation exercises too

tbh, its somewhat a mix of add ins as i noticed stronglifts focus on few but heavier exercises

i only hvae a maximum 25kg barbell, i cant do progression as good as stronglift's original

well 1 year is forcing it

im no celebrity with super trainers but one could dream

sides, im not looking to be big but just enough to the point nobody will ever look at me and say im skinny

The weights are too light and this is like what, after 8 months? personally, you are wasting your potential beginner gains.

Like others had said, join a gym so that you can tackle heavier weights, as a suggestion, follow the program as how it is meant to be performed. this is a strength program, not muscle building. simply modifying a program will yield sub optimal result.

If you're planning to do more stuffs with more rep range and curls which is more bodybuilding oriented, there are plenty around for example PPL or even the classic bro split.

4 months only so far, where did the 8 came from?

but yeah i guess time to hit heavier weights

You can still gain under beginner strength program. Just dont eat stupidly like me, earing 1000kcal a day at that time. Me dumb shit.

100 bucks that TS will continue what he does now and give up without achieving his goal. He doesn't want to be too big he said. As if the too big can be achieved in 12 months.

Ops sorry, but yea lift heavier to get more out of the program.

Not saying you can't gain muscle under strength programs per se, the body will gain muscle to compensate heavier loads but it'll be strength first then muscle, as opposed to a more hypertrophy oriented workout.

well, i just did it. subbed to gym

i guess time to actually follow stronglift 5x5 method's

Congratulations! All the best bro.

good luck, all the best. but remember, lower down your expectations. build mass for muscle will take years.

you cannot achieve 74kg (with muscles) at 15% body fat with the remaining 8 months.

maybe set a different target like leaning down from 20% (or whatever your bodyfat level is) to 12% in 8 months while gaining newbie muscles. at this point your weight will be around 60-62kg. after that, start to lean bulk (slow progress) to achieve your desired weight. most likely will take another year or two.

Time to up my post count

Not okay
- if you have no idea with your food macro
- if you cannot eyeball, guestimate the calories of the food you eat
- if you want optimum effort / progress

Okay
- if you've been tracking for awhile
- if you've weight your food before and know how big of portion is equivalent to how much macro
- if you know how much you eat daily that maintain your current state

Additional info
- protein shake is equivalent chicken / egg / fish / pork / beef / lamb, no where near to any magic powder that helps you gain muscle "fast", but is a form of convenience.

This post has been edited by helven: Jun 27 2018, 04:27 PM

thanks for the wishes, git gud or die trying

60-62 is pretty light though on my BMI, i have a friend who's about 70kg but hes deemed "skinny" despite being muscular. mass doesnt come easy at all. my expectations are already pretty low the idea is to get enough to the point nobody will ever see me and say skinny.. EVER

im actually eyeballing, cause my mum is pretty intense on family nutrition so most of the time i can never eat much protein when she cooked. shes super into more vege and teeny on the meat portion. only when i cook i can confirm im getting enough protein. there was once i took 4 eggs for one day, she complained im overeating in terms of protein eventhough it was after workout

i was looking on it as a last resort of some sort where if you cant get enough protein (like for cases above) and also to recover muscle strain. its not something to eat all the time, its like what everyone been saying "your body can only absorb as much protein that is required, the rest goes out as poo and is wasted"

when getting lean, you will shred most of the fat, hence your weight will be reduced. to maintain muscle (to some extent, you can gain newbie muscles), eat enough protein (1.8g per your kg bodyweight). if you can't get enough protein from home cooked food, then by all means whey protein shake is your best friend. but once in a while, try to eat something like quarter grilled chicken at every meal. cook your own if you need to.

dont worry about BMI just yet while cutting. for a skinnyfat person with > 20% bodyfat can even have a normal BMI. the first phase is to get lean (you will shred fat and lose weight). once you reach below 15% bodyfat, then start the second phase, which is lean bulking (approx. 10% calorie surplus). this is where you will start to gain good muscles with not much fat gainz. this is better for long term.

if you bulk now, with your current bodyfat level, you will gain weight yes of course, but mostly it will be made up of fat and water. don't do this

wanted to ask how much does whey help to improve recovery time?

just 2 trips down to gym and im already feeling the pain eventhough im doing lesser but heavier

the muscle strain seems to prolong even if given full one day recovery

Thats called DOMS.. very normal .. It'll be gone once you get used to that particular exercise..

well, if you really want it that much, Tren harder

"176cm 66kg that time, with last i weigh in being 68+kg now after 4 months-ish."
Congrats!

Good news
You, being 25 young and able to recover faster (if rest & nutrition is good enough) - should be able to hit 70-72kg with lean mass (not whale blubber) in several months kua. Just based on my own experience / frame - i'm 178cm & i can, within 6+/- months, swing from 67kg+/- (too busy / hectic to do heavy lifts - just bodyweight plyos) to 71kg+ (with heavy lifts on the basics like deadlifts, squats, pull-ups, cleans & presses).

Bad news
Maybe even at 74kg, U'd still look lean with clothes on.

FYI - even at 72kg now (ya, i've focus & time to lift heavy), people still say i'm lanky / skinny . However, looking at the mirror (the best judge, not the weighing scale) with shirt off, can easily see the results - striation of the muscles below the skin & the "3D effect".

If i've 1 suggestion - focus on the big 5s: Squats, Deadlifts, Bench (Incline) Presses, Standing Rows, Shoulder Presses / Clean & Press WITH HEAVY enough INTENSITY (eg. till failure, then strip sets). U should be fried or dead after 20mins to 30mins - it's like sprinting all out (rest between sets ya) VS jogging.
Also,
if U are doing it solo @ home & dont have equipment to "spot" U when U hit failure, i'd suggest dumbells for squats, bench presses, shoulder presses, etc - for safety

Gambate!
Note - i'm no expert but i've been doing HIT before HIT was an in-thing
(HIT = High Intensity Training)
old / senior fart just sharing - no absolute right/wrong in training, most important is doing it

PS: Nowadays U guys are lucky - YouTube!! Checkout AthleanX - good logical & executable info

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Jul 4 2018, 05:00 PM

the million dollar question as usual, does more strain = more effort?

im gonna keep running at it until i get what i want, gym aint cheap mang

dayum, even 74kg cant cut it? cause i saw there was a youtuber who's like 176cm, 76-78kg and he looks pretty defined

yes im focusing on those, those are much simpler to learn and do. my primary aim is shoulder hypertrophy actually, shoulders so broad, make a swimmer feel proud. so far deadlifts have been effing contagious than squats, but it strains the back real bad esp since im doing the romanian deadlift

my HIT is just 5-10min run at treadmill after all the exercise lol, around speed at 12-13.

Definitely not.

It's a good indication that you lack of training for that muscle group that have DOMs.

Do more stretching and move more. If you stay idle for too long then will feel the soreness more especially in the morning.

havent been curling as much, but its still in the agenda if can squeeze in

as for size, i am seeing improvements from compounds