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RPG -Fallout 3-, Fans... Fans never change...

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SpikeTwo
post Oct 15 2008, 12:26 AM

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QUOTE(soggie @ Oct 14 2008, 10:05 AM)
actually, the whole idea of teaser videos and gameplay videos is to let you gauge the game so that you'll be making an informed decision when playing the game. So far, the action part of the game is horrible. Horrible voice acting, amateurish animation and horrible immersion. That's what ANYBODY can get from the videos without playing the game at all.

You don't have to jump off a skyscraper to know how falling feels like, my friend.
*
teasers can only make fans jump or whine. it is a marketing gimmick to attract more attention from the public.

the falling part, you have to if u are gonna experience free fall..jumping from 3m or imagined that you jumped...based on that, it is not real experience of jumping off a skyscraper. you will have to actually try bungy jump to feel what it is really like for free fall over great heights with massive winds blowing your whole body. well, if you understand what i am trying to say. it is a different thing.

btw, cracksys, regarding your theory: as a smart consumer, you can actually go to shops to try out the phones with reference to the reviews. and make your own decision whether or not it is worth your money. same goes with games, there's always (well, most likely for most famous games) a demo available for "test-drive" purpose. and then, you can have all the freedom to choose whether or not to buy the game. as simple as that.

no offense, but empty judges are just so immature. just relax and wait.

This post has been edited by SpikeTwo: Oct 15 2008, 12:32 AM
Enclave Recruit
post Oct 15 2008, 02:07 AM

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QUOTE(SpikeTwo @ Oct 15 2008, 12:26 AM)

btw, cracksys, regarding your theory: as a smart consumer, you can actually go to shops to try out the phones with reference to the reviews. and make your own decision whether or not it is worth your money. same goes with games, there's always (well, most likely for most famous games) a demo available for "test-drive" purpose. and then, you can have all the freedom to choose whether or not to buy the game. as simple as that.


*
Alas, no demo for Fallout 3...what a shame. No chance to test-drive...

Vault dwellers, think hard before you spend that RM 139 hehehe...

cracksys
post Oct 15 2008, 05:11 AM

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QUOTE(SpikeTwo @ Oct 15 2008, 12:26 AM)
btw, cracksys, regarding your theory: as a smart consumer, you can actually go to shops to try out the phones with reference to the reviews. and make your own decision whether or not it is worth your money. same goes with games, there's always (well, most likely for most famous games) a demo available for "test-drive" purpose. and then, you can have all the freedom to choose whether or not to buy the game. as simple as that.
*

unfortunately, not with this "famous" game. so, unless you count jack-version as testing, that 'smart-consumer' thingy is not valid. not with FO3

why the hell wouldn't Beth release a demo. it's freaking simpler compared to other games. there's no need to put full game with locked level, if they're afraid of piracy. unless they wanted to hide something (spell: bad animation, bad voiceover, bad gameplay).

Beth are full of shit. remember Radiance AI? a supposedly AI system so advance, NPC will be reading books and walk their pet. and what did Beth fan get? NPC who stares at wall.

don't worry tho, they upgrade it now so that enemy in FO3 will ... charge and retreat.

talking about innovation.
soggie
post Oct 15 2008, 07:05 AM

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QUOTE(SpikeTwo @ Oct 15 2008, 12:26 AM)
teasers can only make fans jump or whine. it is a marketing gimmick  to attract more attention from the public.

the falling part, you have to if u are gonna experience free fall..jumping from 3m or imagined that you jumped...based on that, it is not real experience of jumping off a skyscraper. you will have to actually try bungy jump to feel what it is really like for free fall over great heights with massive winds blowing your whole body. well, if you understand what i am trying to say. it is a different thing.

btw, cracksys, regarding your theory: as a smart consumer, you can actually go to shops to try out the phones with reference to the reviews. and make your own decision whether or not it is worth your money. same goes with games, there's always (well, most likely for most famous games) a demo available for "test-drive" purpose. and then, you can have all the freedom to choose whether or not to buy the game. as simple as that.

no offense, but empty judges are just so immature. just relax and wait.
*
Spike, you ever played the previous fallouts? Check this out:

1) in fallout 3, a BOS paladin says this to you "Steel be with you"
2) when fighting, a BOS paladin goes "To Arms, brothers, to Arms!"
3) Super mutants firing rifles (wow, suddenly in the East coast they evolved smaller fingers?)

These are just small things my friend. Let's forget about the analogies for now. I guess I failed to portray my point correctly with it.

But for the 3 points, maybe it's nothing for you, but for me, it's no longer absurd. It's way beyond that.
KepalaRadio
post Oct 15 2008, 10:14 AM

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Holy crap after reading all that I've lost all hope on Fallout 3, looks like it IS going to be that bad.
Darkstalker
post Oct 15 2008, 10:39 AM

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Well, people that are familiar with both the old Fallouts (Black Isle I believe) and Bethesda's would be well aware that Fallout 3 is shaping up to be FAllout 3 in name only. So that's a bummer.

Even the graphics look wonky, and I thought at least Bethesda would do good there. But the environments tend to be plain and boring. sad.gif

Will still check it out when released and see fan reactions though.
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post Oct 15 2008, 10:42 AM

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QUOTE(KepalaRadio @ Oct 15 2008, 10:14 AM)
Holy crap after reading all that I've lost all hope on Fallout 3, looks like it IS going to be that bad.
*
If the AI is as idiotic as the ones shown in the videos, then that will probably make this game a crappy shooter as well. So in a nutshell, you'll have a crappy shooter with mediocre role playing elements which is a far cry from it's predecessors.



quarantined
post Oct 15 2008, 12:09 PM

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Guys who didn't played fallout or it's sequel will probably enjoy this.

Guys who have played will loathe it.

Me.. I try not to judge until I get my hands on it. But the 'Oblivian immigrants' sure as hell pissed me off. biggrin.gif
Mr_Hulk
post Oct 15 2008, 12:31 PM

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QUOTE(Enclave Recruit @ Oct 15 2008, 10:42 AM)
If the AI is as idiotic as the ones shown in the videos, then that will probably make this game a crappy shooter as well. So in a nutshell, you'll have a crappy shooter with mediocre role playing elements which is a far cry from it's predecessors.
*
have you seen the AI in fallout 2? it is better than AI in Crysis...hihihihihi....just kidding....i agree real-time shooting in Fallout 3 is gonna be suck, that why i will fight the mutant in old fashioned way....Turn Based Combat!!!!....

This post has been edited by Mr_Hulk: Oct 15 2008, 12:31 PM
Darkstalker
post Oct 15 2008, 01:30 PM

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Turn based looks slow though. All sorts of drawn out animations.

Hope there's a way to speed it up or turn it off.
soggie
post Oct 15 2008, 05:11 PM

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QUOTE(Enclave Recruit @ Oct 15 2008, 10:42 AM)
If the AI is as idiotic as the ones shown in the videos, then that will probably make this game a crappy shooter as well. So in a nutshell, you'll have a crappy shooter with mediocre role playing elements which is a far cry from it's predecessors.
*
Actually I have nothing good to say about Fallout's AI either, so the new AI isn't going to be something stopping me from getting the game (there are other more serious ones...). In the old Fallout, enemies rush straight towards you, guns blazing. Combat in the old fallout series are more exploit than tactical, I must admit tongue.gif. The RPG elements are supposed to make the game interesting - combat is only a side effect.
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post Oct 15 2008, 07:53 PM

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QUOTE(soggie @ Oct 15 2008, 05:11 PM)
Actually I have nothing good to say about Fallout's AI either, so the new AI isn't going to be something stopping me from getting the game (there are other more serious ones...). In the old Fallout, enemies rush straight towards you, guns blazing. Combat in the old fallout series are more exploit than tactical, I must admit tongue.gif. The RPG elements are supposed to make the game interesting - combat is only a side effect.
*
Since Fallout 3 puts more emphasis on combat (being a first person RPG and all that), I was expecting the AI to be relatively better than what has been shown thus far. I agree that the AI in F1 and F2 weren't spectacular, but like you said, it was the RPG elements that made the games interesting and I guess we can overlook that flaw since the game was released a decade ago. It's frustrating that Bethesda didn't learn anything from the old Fallout installments (in terms of the flaws that were present or what made it great).

IMO, F3 looks very combat oriented. Ok, so I've given up hope of it being an epic RPG. If Bethsoft wanted to make F3 combat oriented, at least incorporate decent AI into the game (which could at least be a redeemable feature) to make it a top-notch shooter. That said, IF the RPG elements suck and the AI suck, then I really don't know what to say.

It looks like this game is shaping up to become another Deus Ex: Invisible War (both are First Person RPGs developed for the PC and consoles). I truly hope I'm wrong though wink.gif



Darkstalker
post Oct 15 2008, 09:51 PM

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I feel Bethesda actually shot themselves in the foot by going for both turn based and FPS.

A decent FPS player should be able to never miss (considering how slow and stupid the enemies seem to be) which makes turn based useless. UNLESS, of course, even when shooting directly, there is a chance to miss, in which case, why bother with FPS mode?

That's what my thoughts and the videos (that I've seen) show me anyway.
SpikeTwo
post Oct 15 2008, 09:59 PM

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yes, i've played fallout2. and it is just not my game despite the creative innovations. hoping beth would shape things up. i will only post my rants here once I've got my hands on. laugh.gif
cracksys
post Oct 15 2008, 10:01 PM

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QUOTE(Darkstalker @ Oct 15 2008, 09:51 PM)
I feel Bethesda actually shot themselves in the foot by going for both turn based and FPS.

A decent FPS player should be able to never miss (considering how slow and stupid the enemies seem to be) which makes turn based useless.  UNLESS, of course, even when shooting directly, there is a chance to miss, in which case, why bother with FPS mode?

That's what my thoughts and the videos (that I've seen) show me anyway.
*

that's why when the game actually leaked, they practically praying that people do uninformed decision when buying their game.

Fallout 3 are made for console kiddies. if it's hard, Beth will make it easier so that you won't die or miss any chance. they even put an automatic cheat in the game so that you won't get hit by other enemy while it goes slow-mo

the first choice that you had to make is whether to destroy Megaton or not. either way, you'll get a "home" as base.

oh my god, choice and consequence at work!
soggie
post Oct 15 2008, 11:29 PM

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QUOTE(cracksys @ Oct 15 2008, 10:01 PM)
that's why when the game actually leaked, they practically praying that people do uninformed decision when buying their game.

Fallout 3 are made for console kiddies. if it's hard, Beth will make it easier so that you won't die or miss any chance. they even put an automatic cheat in the game so that you won't get hit by other enemy while it goes slow-mo

the first choice that you had to make is whether to destroy Megaton or not. either way, you'll get a "home" as base.

oh my god, choice and consequence at work!
*
Yeah. I would have loved it if the player, if he decides not to blow megaton up, gets a room in megaton, but then after proceeding along with the storyline he would be captured by the antagonists in his house. Turns out that the sheriff sold him out to save megaton.

And then, if the player had blew it up, tenpenny tower would actually inform the player well ahead that somebody's after him and he would be able to take measures and skip the whole segment of the game that involves him losing all equipment and have to escape from the antagonists' capture.

That's a nice surprise of gray over there - save somebody only to get betrayed; or be a bad guy and have somebody watch over your ass instead. And that would totally rock.

And for Arefu, that's just a rip off from FO2's slags quest.


Added on October 15, 2008, 11:35 pm
QUOTE(SpikeTwo @ Oct 15 2008, 09:59 PM)
yes, i've played fallout2. and it is just not my game despite the creative innovations. hoping beth would shape things up. i will only post my rants here once I've got my hands on. laugh.gif
*
Then maybe deep RPGs are not your cup of tea. Nothing wrong with that, I have friends who swear upon JRPGs (*couch cough bueekkkkkk), and there are a few who would never go near Diablo with a ten feet pole.

This post has been edited by soggie: Oct 15 2008, 11:35 PM
frags
post Oct 16 2008, 01:34 PM

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Ze french hate ze game! This seems to support my sneaking suspicions about the game....

http://www.nma-fallout.com/article.php?id=45725

English is a bit off...its translated from french.

QUOTE
Critical Hit on our hopes...

The more time passes, the more I feel like this dog, barking and foaming at every car that happens to be passing by. I run after them, trying to bite their wheel rims, to crush their tires, their muffler, but I miss.They are going too fast, too far from me. And even if I succeeded ? What would happen anyway ? I bite a moving wheel, it stomps my face, I assault some scrap, it smashes my teeth. Some things are so lifeless, so sluggish that you can't possibly let off steam on them. Fallout 3, anyone ?
[...]
This article is not a test. Just an "introduction for things to come". Why? Because the conditions under which I had to play this "RPG" were not acceptable: sixteen hours in a row in a luxurious hotel on an almost finished build, Bethesda asking to see my screenshots in order to "approve" them...These factors, going from obnoxious to truly scandalous would have made my review biased or even dishonest. Well, I mean a little more dishonest than what I usually do. But have no fear, even though I was deprived of my screenshots, I'm not deprived from my opinion. Condolences: Fallout 3 is a sluggish device, soulless, not exactly terrible, actually almost enjoyable, but totally forgettable because of uncountable dishonest compromises.
[...]
From what I've seen, Fallout 3 does not have any of the qualities of the previous episodes. But that was to be expected. However, it has none of the diffuse magic of the Elder Scrolls series. It feels like Bethesda made a break with this new title, a sad bend towards products multiplying "fan service", the dumb, goofy stuff that will make the client laugh, the "awsum roxxorz" elements and micro-gameplay to the detriment of world coherence and deeper mechanisms. To sum it all up, expect loads of shallow combat spoiled by VATS and slowmotion sequences as gore as pathetic, a terribly short main quest - a Spanish colleague has finished it in less than an afternoon, during his first playthrough - nice secondary quests, but which completely missed the intelligence and density of the series, the whole being flavored with failed occasions.
[...]
With technical means a lot inferior, Fallout 1 and 2 managed to depict this world in all its rococo excess and misery in a formidable manner. But no, despite the dismantled bridges, the huge depth of field, the buildings trying their best not to fall down, it just does not work. By the way, when I came back to CanardPC and people asked me "How is Fallout 3?", honestly, all that I could say at first was "Brown". These ochre shades smash, make the most eccentric idea - let's say, why not, the Washington area transformed into a battlefield scarred by trenches - bland, commonplace, immediately boring. Even worse, where the atmosphere of decay should have been palpable, when you are walking in a city overflowed by skyscrapers ruins, disembowelled roads, peopled by half-savages, one can focus on but one thing: ruins placed strategically to prevent you from crossing the street because designers decided that you shouldn't take THIS path.
[...]
Most locations you can discover are "raider dungeons". City ruins are copy-paste of the same and only model, here and there flavored by the same and only model of tricycle (the very poetic "Red Ryder") and even worse, the main quest will get you through an Hellgate London-ish nightmare in which you had to pass through kilometers of underground for hours and hours.
[...]
How about random encounters ? Well, I have yet to see one. Caravans wander in between cities, you can meet on or two non-aggressive guys in the underground but nothing original at a random road crossing, nothing spectacular at all. Worse than this, Dogmeat is to be found in the exact same spot at the north east of the map while we were originally told that his location is random. However, depending on your karma, you will come across bounty-hunters. I know that this is a cool thing, but remember that you'll never be attacked during fast travels.
[...]
Even when you want to explore things and let alone the main quest for a while, it still tastes weird. Besides the cardboard sets, the feeling of emptiness suddenly goes away. Just like in Oblivion and Gothic 3, adventure awaits at every corner of the street. Literally, unfortunately. A two minute walk and you're there! A design decision which probably has everything to do with the average attention span of the console gamer.
[...]
The Sims 2 : Apocalypse

The second element that makes me think that Fallout 3 is condemned to mediocrity, as a Fallout episode but also as an RPG, is the total lack of coherence between all the elements of gameplay. Just an example. Pretty soon, you'll discover that the game has more to do with a doll's house than with roleplaying: you spend your time picking up clothes or armor parts that, *magic trick*, influence your skills. Pick up a surgeon overall, gain five Medicine points. Wear a camping suit, your agility is increased. All of a sudden, the building of a "role" - a specialized but unique and believable character, exactly what made the core of Black Isle's RPGs - is blown away. You just have to spend your caps on weapons, but even that is not necessary...For the rest, everybody who thinks for at least thirty seconds can make a multivalent character. One just needs the appropriate clothes, drugs to suddenly turn into a pyrotechnician, scientist, or burglar.
[...]
On the other hand, don't expect to be able to convince anybody that originally does not like you. NPC reactions are determined by your Karma and even a professional liar won't be able to convince someone who does not like him to become his partner. But have no fear: you can change your reputation just like you can switch clothes. You're too good to obtain what you wish? Steal, kill generic NPCs (those with no name) and here you are: the incarnation of evil! But don't worry: after three days, people forget about your deeds and you are forgiven.

Your karma is too low for a particular quest? Just kill bad guys and give water to hobos (it comes for free if you have your own house) and there you go: holier than saints. Where the first Fallout episodes where built around balancing your own desires and deciding what sacrifices you were ready to do in order to fulfil them, Bethesda sweeps this and allows you to switch styles at will. Nothing is important any more, everything becomes relative. Everything black. Everything white. No need for grey when redemption and condemnation are made so easy.
[...]
Secondary quests are a bit more original, from the fight between a woman who thinks she is Queen of the Ants and a "graduated robotologist", to a black and white remake of Desperate Housewives flavored with Happy Days. Certain situations could lead to absurd results, like becoming the official crash dummy for a Wasteland Survival Guide. Unfortunately, everything remains nice and unoffensive. It echoes the impossibility of killing children and the completely avoided sex scenes - pay a prostitute and she will go to bed and sleep, not offering any particular dialog choice or text, not even a black screen. Bethesda's hero is apparently no hero in the sack...
[...]
In certain cases, I even feel like the usage of VATS is indispensable. Example: while underground, I come face to face with two gatling turrets and some feral ghouls. I kill the ghouls with the FPS view and then, unable hit the defense system, after several death and increasing frustration, gave up and switched to VATS. With hit chances like 3 to 5%: no way I'm going to succeed. Still, two critical hits. Gatlings destroyed. But only if you aim the sensors: elsewhere it does not work. Honestly it feels as if enemies had weak points and if you shot them where the developer expected you to shoot, then stats suddenly become useless, immediately replaced by critical hits. There we go: Dragon's Lair.
[...]
VATS slow motion may be the worst crime against video gaming since the invention of the auto-aim and checkpoint based save system.
I don't know what the people of Bethesda had in mind... Maybe they feared that the game would be too short and imposed a twenty seconds on us at each targeted shot to extend the gameplay length, maybe they really desire that we notice their face modeling with independent eye globes, maybe they simply suffer from blaring bad taste, from a love for Brotherhood of Steel they want to share at any price?

Either way, this "feature" that retarded teenagers and moronic fans of "self-confident but still crappy" violence will love (and even then, not beyond the 10 first minutes), guarantees that you will avoid using the targeted shot system at any price. It sucks, it's ugly, it's not funny, it's long et absolutely useless.
Worst of all, there's no way to skip it or deactivate it in the options. You will be then forced to endure these scenes not even worthy of Soldier of Fortune 3.
[...]
Lambda players will probably enjoy it. But, us? Well, we still cannot swallow it, this mucky heresy. Sure, I could destroy it, dip it into a vat of hatred just to clean the insult. But it wouldn't make it better. It wouldn't bring Black Isle back. So if you don't mind, I'm going to stop here and have a drink at the café of broken dreams.


Guys...forget about fallout. I think if you want a proper RPG you should look out for Dragon Age....imho that the only hope of a proper RPG!

This post has been edited by frags: Oct 16 2008, 01:59 PM
Darkstalker
post Oct 16 2008, 01:48 PM

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So...as of now, nothing unexpected.
KepalaRadio
post Oct 16 2008, 02:57 PM

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Judging by the review they gave, I would say Fallout 3 is an epic failure sad.gif
soggie
post Oct 16 2008, 02:57 PM

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QUOTE(frags @ Oct 16 2008, 01:34 PM)
Ze french hate ze game! This seems to support my sneaking suspicions about the game....

http://www.nma-fallout.com/article.php?id=45725

English is a bit off...its translated from french.
Guys...forget about fallout. I think if you want a proper RPG you should look out for Dragon Age....imho that the only hope of a proper RPG!
*
I have only this as reply:

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