Agreed.. there are numerous verses in the past where Jesus Christ is actually being revealed. Not just Issac's Sacrifice, you can see Moses and Aaron being bitten by the poisonous snake, you can also refer to Moses hitting the rock at the wilderness, and much more.. but taking each word of God is just a PART of interpreting God's word. And still, each word matters.

Looking back I think the sacrifice of Issac's focus was not how Issac carried the wood up but rather how God spared Issac for Lamb which was to symbolize Jesus.

Yup I agree, every word in Bible is important.

But as for the matter whether it's days or age, that is something I'm still contemplating.

For me It's not impossible for God to create the world in days but then again Bible is written in Hebrew and Greek.

Even we don't know for sure if God really did that in days or in age if we were to say nobody was there to witnessed creation to know for sure.

Anyway the point is (for me); Old Earth or Young Earth is not something that is critical that has to be solved, what is important is what God wants us to know; which is the condition of every human has fallen, we have been separated and God is calling everyone to come home to Him where we can find life and the meaning of life.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 19 2017, 07:06 PM

Off topic a bit, but I found this interesting article

http://juniaproject.com/defusing-1-timothy-212-bomb/

It appears that back then Timothy was dealing with the ancient Greek versions of radical (a.k.a crazy) feminists

Anyone here keeps challenging their faith?
I have asked a few christian friends
Some said it is a sin and you should follow blindly what the bible tells you
Some said it is not a sin, by challenging your faith, it helps one grow deeper in God
I know myself and I like to challenge things in life. So i am the latter.

I truly shocked when there are so many things that cannot do in christian life.
Cannot borrow money, WTF? How about someone borrow money and invested in few properties?
Its a sin to make a profit bcos wealth is the root of all evil as my ex-gf tells me. In the end, we broke up.
Even Christian using condoms, some will say is a sin, WTF?
I accepted christ since 2 months old but seems that i would like to give up since even petty things cant do.
In addition seems like many things are already proven by science but not yet on bible.
I did a Google search on “science vs bible”. Maybe i am a science guy that only believe in evidence.

Any advice for me? I asked my friends and most of them cant even give me an answer with substance

thanks for explaining..
LOLS

Its good discussion
Because afterall I think the word of God should not be undermined of its strength

If you ask me, i personally think you love God but are at the same time trying to make sense of what the Bible has written.
You've got the gospel half right.. old earth new earth its just a timeline which we are going through. But i am puzzled. Does God surprise you when He says He can do it in 6 days ? lols..

(God has His ways, its whether we have faith in Him that He did it or not)
Isaiah 55:8-9," For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts"

(Believe as a little child, child-like faith is what we need to practice, not through logical human reasoning)
Matthew 18:2-4, "And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven."


Whats important is, yes you are right.. man has sin.. Sin separates us.. but Jesus Christ PAID for our sins through death, cleansed us through His blood, and overcome death for us through his resurrection.. this part is VERY important..

**(Why i stress this? James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.")**
** Matthew 7:22,23 "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will i profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Its not merely believing there is one God.. Muslims do so too.. its very important to know and believe what the entire true gospel is about..

Hi Jurlique,
I can only tell you, that being a Christian, DOES NOT MEAN you are perfect. It does not mean you can't do this or can't do that. To begin with, you said you accepted Christ.
Good that you did.
But when you accepted Christ, what does it mean?
It basically means, you now have the Holy Spirit. It also means, someone is paying for your sins. So as a Christian, because we love God, we try to sin-less.
And its impossible, but we try. Even Apostle Paul sin.

Now, back to whether you can borrow money, or even use condoms, etc.. I think you're either going to wrong churches, or you are really getting the wrong sources..
My friend, whatever that your church, or other Christians say you can and cannot do, ask him/her to show you what the Bible says about it.
Money is the root of all evil i believe you are referring to
1 Timothy 6:10 ," For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."

This verse tells loving money MORE than loving God, causing themselves a lot of sadness..
But can you invest?

Matthew 22:21,"They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Carsar's; and unto God the things that are God's"

You may invest, but while investing, the main question is your purpose of investing. To be rich? and why you want to be rich? to buy material stuffs?

Matthew 6:19-21," Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rush doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

SO BOTTOM LINE! TAKE HOME MESSAGE!

You accepted Christ. Good.
Do you love God?
You want to invest. Can (FYI, i know a lot of christians who invest, or are even businessmen)
Is it for your own glory or for God? (invest can be to fulfil basic necessities. God said not to LOVE money, but not asking you to not invest. In fact, Jesus gave a parable about a master giving money to his servants and asking them to grow the money. But in the end, the servant grew the money. The servant didnt love the money. He just wanted to serve his Master." read it up yourself Matthew 25:14-30

If you appreciate my help, find me. I can help you understand and walk through whatever questions you have together. PM me if you need my hp to contact me. Or if you need to find a good Bible preaching church.

Huh? I think you missed what I said about It's not impossible for God to create the world in days.

btw bro, Gospel is not about Young Earth or Old Earth.

Think about this; Every Scripture is God's breath but not every scripture is the Gospel.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 20 2017, 08:58 AM

Olam in the Hebrew = ages (1), all successive (1), always (1), ancient (13), ancient times (3), continual (1), days of old (1), eternal (2), eternity (3), ever (10), Everlasting (2), everlasting (110), forever (136), forever and ever (1), forever* (70), forevermore* (1), lasting (1), long (2), long ago (3), long past (1), long time (3), never* (17), old (11), permanent (10), permanently (1), perpetual (29), perpetually (1).

http://biblehub.com/hebrew/5769.htm

Yom = afternoon* (1), age (8), age* (1), all (1), always* (14), amount* (2), battle (1), birthday* (1), Chronicles* (38), completely* (1), continually* (14), course* (1), daily (22), daily the days (1), day (1115), day of the days (1), day that the period (1), day's (6), day's every day (1), daylight* (1), days (635), days on the day (1), days to day (1), days you shall daily (1), days ago (1), days' (11), each (1), each day (4), entire (2), eternity (1), evening* (1), ever in your life* (1), every day (2), fate (1), first (5), forever* (11), forevermore* (1), full (5), full year (1), future* (1), holiday* (3), later* (2), length (1), life (12), life* (1), lifetime (2), lifetime* (1), live (1), long (2), long as i live (1), long* (11), midday* (1), now (5), older* (1), once (2), period (3), perpetually* (2), present (1), recently (1), reigns (1), ripe* (1), short-lived* (1), so long* (1), some time (1), survived* (2), time (45), time* (1), times* (2), today (172), today* (1), usual (1), very old* (1), when (10), when the days (1), whenever (1), while (3), whole (2), year (10), yearly (5), years (13), yesterday* (1)


http://biblehub.com/hebrew/3117.htm

Look at the examples used in scripture verses in context. (Right Hand side)



*Not disagreeing or agreeing with anybody but to tell you

Day 24 hours is correct in Genesis but also it denotes "Time" which may not also be 24 hours because it is interchangeable, hebrew is a rich language, which at times, English just cannot justify.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 20 2017, 09:11 AM

Hahaha i think i did.
My bad.

Yea, Gospel is not about New or old Earth.
but its also important to get the Gospel right.. like i previously shared, its dangerous.. even the devils know God and tremble.
They too believe in Jesus as the son of God and His coming.

Matthew 8:29 ," And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?"

so its really important that the gospel is the right one.. and the faith is also true.

Thanks for your reply.
I am an employee before before starting to pursue my own business with 2 other partners and get to know my ex-gf who is Christian.
I get to know Christ through my gf too.

Yes, I did do investments... and of course one of my motive is to get rich. (Yes, I came from a poor family and my dad passed away when I was just 10 years old).

So, it's that a sin to go for wealth?

I see many Christians in my church driving Audi, Mercs, Beemer, branded cars... some even are Datuks and stays in fancy Bunglows.

So, I guess your statement above "To be rich? and why you want to be rich? to buy material stuffs?. My answer is YES. So, what's the deal? Does Christians needs to be biased to those who are rich, chasing wealth etc? There are quite a number of them in my church.

Sorry if my post offended you... but as I said before, I like to challenge something till the end.

I think the word 'day' used in Genesis means 24 hours as per our time. Remember how it was set as a rule that people weren't allowed to work on seventh day?

However, science tells us that our world existed for 4.5 billion years. Hmm....

Could God speed up the process? Otherwise, there wouldn't be a lot of trees, fruits and plants on the sixth day when God created human because we all know it takes time for them to grow?

And I also wonder why there is no events documented on other countries like Malaysia, Australia, China, Japan, USA... etc etc?
What happened to the peoples in these countries during Jesus era? Why Jesus didn't go to other parts of the world preaching?
The whole Bible from A to Z only documented events happening on Egypt, Israel and Jordan. Even miracles only happened in these countries. How about other parts of the world?
I am not debating the Bible is true or not but I am just curious.

This post has been edited by MPIK: Oct 20 2017, 10:03 AM

Don't worry.
Your question.. is it a sin to go for wealth.. I can only tell you that its not what God would have wanted you to do.. As previously clearly in the previous verses.. we are ask to stack up treasures in heaven, not on earth.
Then you might wonder, whats wrong with stacking up treasures on earth?
Okay, then i can only tell you, its not wrong, but its pointless and stupid.. because if you understand our future well enough, you will know that these treasures are pointless when we go to heaven.
Put it this way, lets say, you can control your dreams. Is it wrong to be very rich in your dreams? no. Is it wrong to work hard and fight hard to be rich in your dreams? of cos not. but then.. it will be pointless..
Christians are not biased towards rich people. I've known rich Christians too.
Like I said, it is not about the state of wealth thats important. Its the love for it.. and as i said too, i think the church that you are at may not be the best church for you to learn about God's word.

1 John 2:16,17 ,"For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doet the will of God abideth for ever"

If you say you accepted Christ, did you truly accept Him because you knew you were a sinner and there was NO OTHER WAY you could save yourself except through Jesus Christ,
Through Him because He died for your sins, and He resurrected 3 days later to overcome death for us..

Or you 'accepted' Christ out of convenience.

Accepting Christ requires faith..

Matthew 19:21,22, "Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions"

The above tells about this young man who has so much love towards his money that he could not let it go for Jesus.

Whats the deal with being materialistic?

1 Corinthians 3:14,15,16, " If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?"

1 Corinthains 10:31 , " Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God"

Like I previously mentioned, being materialistic in the end of the day is just fulfilling your own lusts. Lust of flesh, pride of life, lust of the eyes.
And where these lust are, is where your heart is.
Did not Jesus saved you from the state that you are?

If you are truly saved, IF YOU ARE, then even if you pursue riches in life, you are STILL SAVED. Because one that is saved can never be UN-saved.
But, the biggest question is, are you truly saved? and what do you believe in ?

James 2:20, "But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?"

James is referring to people, that claim to have faith, but have no works to show. Which means, the very faith he himself claims to have, is in truth actually non existent. Because the Bible says, when you have faith, eventually you will have works.

WHAT IS REALLY WRONG WITH BEING RICH??? COME ON? I CANT BE RICH??

can...
King Solomon, the richest man ever to be in the history of mankind.. He had everything
If you read his books, Proverbs, Songs of Soloman, Ecclesiastes.. My summary to you of Soloman's life.
He wanted women, he had women. He wanted buildings, he had buildings. WHATEVER HE WANTED, HE HAD IT.. but in the end of his life, what did Soloman say?

Ecclesiastes 1:14 ,"I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit." (he says its pointless work. and nothing but pointlessness)

Ecclesiastes 12:13,14 ," Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgement, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil."

You may have love towards money. But that is only because your eyes are set to the life you have now. On this earth. But you may not realize, the life we are living now is just temporal. When death comes, which no one can prevent, no money is meaningful. Love for money can only temporarily satisfy your lust and it only shows the love you have for this world.. But Jesus saved us for a higher purpose. Jesus saved us to give our life a meaning.

1 John 2:15, "Love not the world, neither the things of this world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him"

Good that you are thinking about it.
Now when Jesus done miracles in healings.. for example in John 4, and even for the blind to see at Bethsaida on Sabbath day in Mark 8, were all this miracles done over a period of time?

Even during Moses time, where there as a bush of fire, or even when Moses staff turned into a snake, or when the angel killed alt the first born in one night, all this were done by God.

I think, we will never be able to fully understand how God did it. But we have to accept by faith God did. If it took time to grow? or how it happened? I think, when we get to heaven, we will find out. But when God said, He did it in a day. I think it happened in a day. Like how Jesus healed instantly or asked Lazarus(Who is dead) to come out instantly.

By faith we accept it.

I can understand your questions because i once asked them myself too.
It is not documented on other countries.. but we can find traces of it.
More so in China.
During Jesus Era, which is a short few years.. during the crucifixion of Jesus, at this time, Israelites were already all around the world. They came back to worship the passover and so happen witnessed the death and resurrection of Jesus. Disciples were preaching in their respective languages at the countries they were from.
Now where to find traces of the old testament?
Look to China's practices and culture. There is a book that explains traditional chinese writings which actually depicts God and Jesus.

But look at Chinese new year where red is used, and hung around the door. Or sacrifices are needed to worship. Why red hanging around the door. Because Chinese believes it is meant to scare the red devil away from killing. If you do a study deep enough, you will realize it is closely related to when Moses instructed Israel to paint red blood on their door. To prevent the angel of death from killing their first born.

LOLS.. the traces are there. But I personally believe it is not obvious because of Satan's cover-ups and also partly because after Rapture, it will be part of 'the great lie' which blinds everyone who is left behind.

-delete-

This post has been edited by NicoRobinz: Oct 20 2017, 10:21 AM

Do you mean the word 'ship' in Chinese?

船 < They say this word refers to the ark, Noah and his family.

actually i think most people do not object on the part that says God created the world in 6 days.

This is something that cannot be debated because the question lies whether you believe or you do not. However, people think Christianity is a fairy tale because it contradicts with the discovery of science.

For example, it is said that the world has existed for 4.5 billion years while in bible, our world didn't exist for that long.