Wrong section. lol.

This post has been edited by tinarhian: Mar 1 2018, 09:03 PM

Why are you replying here lol

The danger is not losing salvation.. the danger is WHAT IS your salvation.. and if it's even yours to lose it to begin with (of course i've showed from the Bible numerous and multiple verses where salvation is assured.. and with all due respect to Mr.Wong, whatever verses that he claimed to be showing that your salvation can be lost, I have explained how it was misinterpreted..

James 2:19,
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Also an explanation to Mr.Wong... when James talked about Faith with works, he was referring to this!
James WAS NOT talking about losing your salvation, in fact, James was referring to whether a person has salvational faith (which eventually brings out works)...

Romans 5:18,19
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The biggest issue with those thinking salvation can be lost.. is that they think salvation was their own works and their own merit.. without the realization that salvation was and always is God's mighty grace towards us.. it was NEVER our own doing.. God doesn't judge sin on us anymore not ONLY because we believed in Jesus Christ, but MORE IMPORTANTLY, because of what Jesus Christ DID FOR US.. as described clearly in Romans 5:19..

God is forgiving our past, present, and future sins, NOT BECAUSE we are obedient.. because no matter how obedient we are, we WILL NEVER be sufficient to save ourselves..or for this matter; to sustain our salvation (to debunk those who still believe salvation can be lost...).. RATHER... it was Jesus Christ's obedience that mattered.

Don't care.

The best verse to debunk is the obligation verse where God owes no one, when He says Salvation is conditional...that is where the verse kills off his argument.

Do you know what is sacarsm ?

Yeah I am envious. I am 95% sure based on what he has written that he is not saved. Unless he was "trolling". In the past "christians" do not write like that BTW. Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme btw.

what do you mean by salvation + merit of works is the way to heaven. It is faith and works, you can't have one without the other (except if you are a baptized infant that can do no works of faith )

"But without faith it is impossible to please God" - Hebrews 11:6

Good works without having the faith will not do.

RC have the seven sacraments as these are instituted by Christ for believers. If they do not have faith in the sacraments, then no point going to receive these.

As for purgatory, it is not paying for sins. The sin must be already forgiven (Confession), but the reparation for the damage should still be done. Eg. if you stole something and you have confessed it and forgiven, you are still bound to restitute the stolen amount or do some other penance. Purgatory is where you've died with forgiven sins but didn't do restitution.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Mar 1 2018, 11:07 AM

Actually curious.
What do you actually understand by this
Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; 14 not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. 15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Are you sure that it is possible for someone to murder another person after they are saved?

I'll reply here when I see false info being posted about Catholics. After all, Catholics are Christians, maybe not to folks like sylar and some others.

"Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." - St Ignatius of Antioch (107), Letter to the Smyrnaeans.

trying very hard to get everyone submitted to their religion...have to use force by way of Man.

Otherwise would it ever work if left to the divine?

What true colours of RC? The positions are clearly stated if you want to have a church wedding in a Catholic church. I've heard more commonly about other Protestant groups that insist they will only marry fellow church-goers or insist their future spouse to convert. Catholics do not force conversion, but if you want to marry a Catholic, the Church says that you must agree to have the children baptised and brought up as Catholics, plus no abortion & contraception, even if you yourself remain in your own religion for the rest of your life.

Not eating meat (abstinence) is a simple penance that Catholics observe on certains days. Why Fridays you ask? Because Our Lord died on Friday and we commemorate His Passion, not only during each and every Mass, but especially on Fridays.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Mar 1 2018, 12:10 PM

Of course ill first suggest you read the KJV version than the version you have..



When you quoted from verse 13-16..

Rebuke them sharply.. they they may be sound in the faith.. which of course as the verse states.. rebuke these people that are in church, but are unruly, vain in speech and deceivers of faith.. they are of Jews.. or in modern world, the assumed Christians.. ASSUMED..

The Bible then explains further what it means sound of faith.. Not fables or traditions, not commandments of men which are not of truth..

Then in verse 15, unto the pure all things are pure.... but unto them that are deviled AND unbelieving.. to the unbelievers.. Nothing is pure.. and all is defiled, in mind and conscience.. With reference to the spiritual state of pure or not pure..

Lastly verse 16, profess they know God but in works deny him.. a very good reference to James 2:18 "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. "

If you are truly saved, your works will be justified.. Same case here in verse 16, these people profess to know God when they do not know God at all, means they were not saved at all to begin with..

So back to your question.. is it possible for commit murder after being saved..
my answer to you is YES. it is possible.. accidental murder is murder.. u accidentally kill a person during a car accident.. is that not murder too ?

HOWEVER, theoretically, it is NOT possible for a SAVED person to purposely commit murder..

I did highlight if that person IS SAVED... but if the person PROFESS to be saved.. then it IS POSSIBLE for the person to continue his murdering habit..

But of course, the core foundation of your question is totally not the same.. but i think like what Titus 1:16 mentioned... Are you referring to SAVED CHRISTIANS.. or PROFESSED SAVED CHRISTIANS..



This post has been edited by zanness: Mar 1 2018, 02:09 PM

First of all, I am obviously quoting from a KJV.

Not really. killing a person during a car accident is technically not a murder.

That's the thing. I was obviously referring saved Christian. I am highlighting the fact that you are wrong in your assumption that a Christian can kill someone and still be "saved" which you made earlier. There are certain things that a Christian just would not do. I know you are making an extreme case to someone to explain that after a Christian is saved, he can technically still murder and still be saved. Your intention is good but then your example is wrong because a Christian just would not engaged in murder after he is saved. Just like a true Christian would not continue in homosexuality after he is saved.

This post has been edited by sylar111: Mar 1 2018, 03:08 PM

Protestants are of the view that “if you’re truly alive, you’ll eat,” while Catholics are of the view that “if you don’t eat, you’ll die.” The Bible sides with the Catholic view: that there are folks who have faith, but then refuse to act on that faith, killing it. But the classic Protestant teaching of faith alone is something along the lines of having faith and nothing but the faith only will get you to heaven, regardless of what acts you did along the way even after believing....if they are lost they weren't originally 'saved' (!!!).

To me it's like Protestants believe they are already in heaven here on earth, nothing else can stop them. For Catholics, the life on earth is just a temporary trial, the end goal is heaven. OSAS actually have quite a close relationship with the Calvinist view of predestination, i.e. if you are not one of the predestined, you're doomed regardless. No chance at all.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Mar 1 2018, 04:57 PM

A Christian CAN kill and STILL be saved.. but a Christian WOULD NOT kill if he is SAVED.

You get the difference?

You are getting defensive here.
Anyway. If you read what I have written CAREFULLY you would have gotten what I am saying.

Obviously, I concur with your intention. But then implying that it is actually possible for a Christian to get into acts like homosexuality or murder after he is saved is just giving other people the wrong impression.

In fact, a lot of people out there actually thinks that a "pastor" is actually saved even after that "pastor" teaches obviously blasphemous doctrines and mixed with the wrong company. But then those people probably have similar ideas as yours whereby we should not judge on that "pastor" salvation as it is still possible for that teacher to teach blasphemous doctrines and mix with the wrong company actually still be saved.

You see, that is because people still take your view that a Christian can kill and still be saved. Technically that may be correct, but from a practical sense it leads to disastrous judgement.

Because people are now making a judgement that a particular "pastor" can teach blasphemous doctrines, mix with the wrong company for his whole life and actually may even still be saved which is actually pretty funny for me.

I think some of you may know which "pastor" I am referring to. But I will not say his name because I know many people in this thread is going to throw their knifes at me once I reveal who this "pastor" is.

Saying that a Christian can kill and still be saved is like saying a dog can talk and is still considered a dog.

Get what I am saying?

This post has been edited by sylar111: Mar 1 2018, 04:26 PM

Judging whether or not a Pastor is saved is based on what? The person's testimonies..

Throughout my years, i've learned that different churches can preach different doctrines.. But what is the core condition for salvation? EXP: Some may believe in baby baptism, some may believe in woman as preachers, speaking of tongues, the differences of the Lord's supper..
When you've mentioned salvation.. i do not think it can be stereotyped based on the person's role.
Ultimately, I still believe it solely boils down to the person's testimony and his salvation journey..

My view, and my focus.. is ALWAYS.. to hear how a person get to know Christ...
The analogy of, 'a christian would not kill' will then come in on how the person reacts to the Word of God..If the person selectively believes the Word of God, it tells how much the person believes in the Gospel..
It may not be the best ruler, and no one will be able to judge or justify a person's salvation.. but it is a good indicator..
For instance, wrong company...
2 Corinthians 6:14
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

If the person disagrees.. and say that the Bible is wrong.. then what is the problem ? is his salvation questionable to begin with..


The practical sense is how Christians view sin.. is the weight of sin any difference from a murder and a lie? If we change the context today, from murder to lie? Can a Christian lie and still be saved?
So my viewpoint is not so much on merely just murder, but sin as a whole.. as one.. neither in the Bible is sin viewed as heavy or light but as a singularity unit.

Sorry I sincerely do not know which pastor you are referring too..

But for those who have read my threads and replies, i do not reply to people but rather i reply to contents.. hence i sincerely really dont remember the person or recall lols..

There are degrees of sin as well. Well I would say a Christian may lie and still be saved but then a Christian who is still in the sin of homosexual is not saved. Also it depends on what kind of lies as well. If I lie to someone pertaining to scripture just for the sake of getting his money, that sin is obviously greater then say if I lie to someone just to protect my privacy. Sometimes lying can even be necessary like lying to a robber that I have no money.

I was referring to the most famous pastor that passed away recently.

If you knew Aceh historically, it was fighting for independence from Indonesia. It never wanted to be a part of Indonesia. Early 2000s Aceh actually submitted Sharia law for proposal. It was denied at first, then approved by Jakarta.

Aceh separatist movements had war with too with the Indonesian armies. If it had not been for the 2004 tsunami, they would still be fighting. lol.
Aceh see the tsunami as punishment from God. That's why I guess they are pushing forward the Sharia laws. lol

But as you see and read the news nowadays, even non-Muslims and foreign tourists are chargeable under the Sharia laws.

When the laws was still in its infancy, they DID NOT include punishment for non-Muslims. It changed later to accomodate everyone. lol.
Non-Muslims aren't allowed to drink and gamble. Two things Chinese like to do during CNY. lol
I bet they are gonna ban festivities as well.

Atheism will be prosecuted as well in Aceh.

I guess that's the start of extremism. Kinda like how Taliban existed in Afghanistan.

This post has been edited by tinarhian: Mar 1 2018, 09:38 PM