Pehkay, you forgot to close a tag. that's why you got bolds.

So Desmond, you learn something today? Hyper Grace is in the Bible.

Only it's in the Greek..Hyper comes from Huper.

Another thing Mr. Wong, don't underestimate what God can do to that transhumanist joker.

Remember people who comes against Christ vehemently may end up being one of the key evangelist.

Why do you think he wants to come in here and feel a momentary belonging? Who knows, that is the one part God is nudging him.

You make too many assumptions. Nobody is underestimating God.


You're going in a roundabout way & trying to corner me, for whatever reason. You're very cunning. I had already stated that i don't agree with "Faith + Works" or "Works Salvation"

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." - 1 John 1:9

If we sin, we go to Him in sincere repentance. He will forgive. Time & again. BUT NOT when we take His Grace for granted!



I still stand by my point when i said there is a condition attached to salvation. Obedience. Is Obedience considered works, UW?

We are not saved by our works. In fact, Paul argues that even our faith is a gift from God, and therefore, there is no room for man’s boasting. Salvation is a work of God. (This sentence, we're both in agreement )

However, salvation is not simply a work that happens when we are born again.

It is a work that continues till we are made into the full image of Christ. It will end at death or at the rapture, whichever happens first.



"Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling" - Philippians 2:12



Again “work out” has the idea of “Keep on working out to completion, to ultimate fulfillment.”

In the NIV (since you're comfy with the NIV) this is represented by the word “continue”—continue to work out your salvation.

This means that sanctification doesn’t happen overnight.

It is a process that must be worked out till it is fully completed which ultimately won’t happen until we get to heaven. The implication of this is that we must persevere until it is complete.

Why is perseverance in working out our salvation important?

Perseverance in working out our salvation is important, because of temptations toward complacent, apathetic Christianity. ("once saved, always saved" mentality will lead to complacency)

In this process of following Christ, there will be temptations to give up the pursuit and just become spiritually comfortable and lethargic.

The church is full of those who have not “persevered” in the discipline of “working out their salvation.”

We see this with one church in particular in the New Testament—the church of Laodicea. Ooops! The lukewarm church again. Or perhaps the members of the Laodicean church are not really believers?

They just attend/pretend?

Paul ties in fear and trembling with the effort that we must pour into our sanctification or salvation.

He is not saying that we contribute to or add to our salvation, but we work it out as he indicated, “as you have always obeyed” so this obedience is a “working out”, due to a healthy fear of disobedience because we tremble at His Word.





Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? - Rom 6:16

I see Obedience yet again. As in the verses i had posted previously on abiding, or the branch will be cut off. Or your name be blotted out. Or lamp stand removed.

The Bible clearly states repentance is necessary. Repentance and Obedience are NOT works. There are going to be a ton of surprised individuals real soon when the rapture occurs.

Any person who believes they can keep sitting on that barstool, or commit adultery and any other sin and not repent is not obeying God.

The Bible is very clear.

No man can pluck them from my hand does not mean we cannot leave. Any person can willingly leave God. Repentance is not works. Matthew 10:22, john 15:6, 1st Corinthians 15:2, 2 Timothy 2:12, Hebrews 6:4-6

" Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy FIRST LOVE

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. " - Revelation 2:4

" But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified. " - 1 Corinthians 9:27

If Paul could say this, and we KNOW he was born again, then how can you say that our salvation can't be lost? Even Paul understood that that is not the case.

We CAN be disqualified if we don't walk in repentance and submission to the will of the Father through the leading of the Holy Spirit.

I quoted this verse before. Your interpretation is wrong! It's not about running for rewards. The GREEK translation here is "adokimos". Go look it up. Castaway(KJV) is more accurate than disqualified.

Bible does say we can quench the HS & harden our hearts.



The truth is that while we did nothing to earn the gift of salvation, we do still have an obligation to maintain the gift, with the grace He has given us

" Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; ..." - Rom. 8:12.

We need to get over this erroneous idea that we have nothing to do, and that if we dare do anything, we are "earning" our salvation. The Bible says that only those that do God's will make it to heaven.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." - Luke 9:62

"If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." - John 15:6

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils ;" - 1 Timothy 4:1

"Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; and being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" Hebrews 5:8, 9.


AND HERE ARE YOUR FAV HEBREW VERSES :


"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." - Hebrews 6:4-6

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." - Hebrews 10:26


"But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;" Hebrews 3:13,14.

See? Unto the end! Endure! Persevere!


"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him." James 1:12.

I see obedience again!

Some verses that i had already provided you with :

"For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. 2 Peter 2:21,22.



"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." - Jude 1:21.

"Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works: or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. - Revelation 2:5

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." - Revelation 2:7

"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." - Revelation 3:5

"When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby." - Ezekiel 33:18




The above verses show beyond a shadow of a doubt that we can lose our salvation. It is there in black and white. All of God's promises in the Bible are conditional.

Be an overcomer, Be obedient, endure temptation, etc

The Parable of the Sower is the best example. There are several things to note about this parable. First, only one class will finally be saved - the ones who brought forth much fruit. No such thing as disobedient Christians.

Only obedient fruitful Christians. Like i said, NOT optional.




Excerpt : What Are Some Of The Implications Of Once Saved Always Saved?

1) Since we are ‘saved’, we can do what we want. It doesn’t matter what kind of sin we commit. We are still going to go to heaven.

2) We do not need to worry about helping our brothers and sisters remain faithful. "Hey, if they are saved, they will remain saved. We do not need to be our brother’s keeper".

3) We can ignore all the Scriptures warning us to persevere to the very end. We don’t need to persevere because if we are saved, we will remain saved.

4) We have a real false sense of security.


So i still see 3 categories here :

1) Unsaved

2) Christians who do not overcome & have 1 foot in the world. They indulge in their sins but, still believe in Jesus Christ. They made a profession.

3) Christians who walk a Holy life & stumble on occasion, but bear much fruit. In short, lived a victorious life.


1 & 2 will enter into a different eternity than 3.


Now, to the million dollar question, do you believe in once saved always saved? Mr. UW?



Edited - Hello ? ? Hello ? !

This post has been edited by Mr. WongSF: Jan 12 2018, 02:51 AM

Someone called?

you better just ask him if him believe faith without work is death.


then he will take you on a roller coaster ride suggesting book of James is not written to address us.


What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, "You have faith and I have works." Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"—and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.
James 2:14‭-‬26 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/jas.2.14-26.ESV

not surprising for someone who can read hyper grace from Romans 5:20

It's not about cunning, it's about driving home the point because I want you to benefit from understanding why Grace matters, it can change your spiritual life in a way you will realize how awesome and how real and how consistent we can experience the Grace of God. Not a once in a blue moon or We don't know when. I do this for your benefit, so even if want to continue to have a "buruk prasakngka" towards me, fine by me.

Truth is, I believe we don't know how vast is the grace of God simply because we have never really understood the depth of God's love. We think we know but I can tell you many people say it only by words but lack the supernatural encounter.

Ah ......See, you finally go back to asking God for forgiveness isn't it? So that by that you escape from being judge of trampling the Son of God underfoot, doesn't that "goes back" to God's grace and mercy again?

You think God forgives you because you were earnest in repentance? Well maybe granted but don't you also agree God doesn't owe it to you just because you repented earnestly, don't you think it's first and foremost because of God's mercy? Something I heavily believe in and preach.

For me God's mercy and grace are on the same foundation which is God's goodness.

The whole problem with your theology is that you're still focus on the obedience of Man as the condition to Salvation, that makes it the work of Man.

Like I said many times, the many verses that you quote, you seem to quote in part.

For example; the classic.

Philippians 2:12 (NIV) - Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

but if you look at the next verse in verse 13.

for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

And how do you get God to work in you? You cannot work out your salvation if God doesn't work in you, isn't it?

Doesn't that still point back by Faith and by Grace?

See everything still falls back to God's grace for without, you will not be able. Even if you want to quote God's faithfulness, that still points back to God.

So with that being said, it's the same principle when it comes to Salvation, You are saved because of God, not because you did this or you did that (Insert whatever you want, obedience, repentance, etc)

God doesn't contradict himself. He said it very clearly If Salvation is a gift given to you, so impossible for you to earn or merit it.

If you say got Salvation because you obeyed, you contradict this gift of God's Grace because in essence you're also saying your obedience warranted/ Merit or Earn God's free gift of Salvation.

You just cannot argued it any other way, no matter how, you will not be able to break this argument.


For for 1 Corinthians 9, Look at verse 23. Look at the context below:

3This is my defense to those who sit in judgment on me. 4Don’t we have the right to food and drink? 5Don’t we have the right to take a believing wife along with us, as do the other apostles and the Lord’s brothers and Cephasa ? 6Or is it only I and Barnabas who lack the right to not work for a living?

7Who serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat its grapes? Who tends a flock and does not drink the milk? 8Do I say this merely on human authority? Doesn’t the Law say the same thing? 9For it is written in the Law of Moses: “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain.”b Is it about oxen that God is concerned? 10Surely he says this for us, doesn’t he? Yes, this was written for us, because whoever plows and threshes should be able to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest. 11If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a material harvest from you? 12If others have this right of support from you, shouldn’t we have it all the more?

All the above talks about prize...before until this verse...look at verse 23. Look the verse that talks about muzzle an ox...that is about wages.

23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

Then Paul ends in verse 27, talking about adokimos which also means Disqualified which can apply to wining a prize.

Sorry but based on the context of what was said, I don't think my interpretation is wrong. There are prizes in terms of 5 crowns. Those are prizes or reward to which will depend on what you do. The crowns as you may already know is called Stephanos, mentioned in verse 25.

1 Corinthians 9:24 (NIV) - Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize.

The word prize is there. Prize, Reward are the same meaning.

Very Simple Mr. Wong. If Salvation is something you need to earn, then it's called a prize. A gift on the other hand is something given to you unearned n the Bible frequently call Salvation a gift, never a prize. But you and I know very clearly, you cannot earn Salvation.

So the context is not on Salvation.

Parable of the sower is not talking about qualifying for Salvation through obedience, it's talking about the importance of understanding the revelation of God's Word that will lead to bountiful or less bountiful manifestation of God's word. This will affect the person's life in connection to God.

Those who don't understand the devil takes away, such people fall away.

There are so many more..give me time I will try to address them one by one.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jan 12 2018, 04:52 PM

Yes Friend, many times I've asked you and you still don't seem to understand.

Who is that "You see"? Wasn't Paul communicating this to another fellow believer, asking him to understand and see why Faith alone isn't going to help another person? No?

And do you not see, the context of the examples of help rendered is for the benefit of another fellow human being? (lacking in food, cloth, etc)

The works without dead is for the justification horizontal...before Man, not before God.

Yes I can read Hyper Grace because it's really in there in Roman 5.20, I just cannot understand your denial....Scared to admit you're wrong isn't it? Ego?

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jan 12 2018, 09:15 AM

Yes Hoka, as you long as you abide by the Rules on 1st page you're most welcome to stay.

Don't cause problems ok?.....Well so far you haven't and we appreciate it.

interesting discussions from all of you.

for me, i am a simple christian.
i don't read the bible too often. i don't quote or memorize verses. I can't share what it is to be a living a good Christian life.

what i know is, i believe in God. and i believe in the goodness and mercy shown on me many times im my life. when i am down, when i am needing someone to talk to , or just to give me inner peace.

i believe in a lot of ways, how God works with many of us are on a personal 1 to 1 level.

i am a simple Christian Peace

Brother....that is what I'm trying to preach.

I believe we have complicated things when God has made it simple for us...with regards to Salvation. If you can't understand all the jargon all the theology language, that's alright...Just understand this:

God loves you and God is Good, based on Christ divine work on the cross, your Faith in Him has saved you.

Some people call it "easy believism" simply because they say it's too good to be true but truth is

God is really too good.

Sometime simple faith can give the believer great breakthroughs.

It is people who loads themselves with heavy theology, I must do this or don't do that

frustrates the favours of God meant for the Weak.

God did say: It is not by power or by might but by my spirit...

That is the consistent fundamental of how God works.

indeed indeed. Thou saved, we also must continue to strive to be better la. haha

For that, It's the power of God, the work of the Holy Spirit.

quote

Whilst it is true that the term hyper is used in the original Geek text it is not referring to Grace itself but to the abundance of Grace. In Romans 5:20 Paul states:

But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Thus it is not Hyper Grace but Hyper Abundance. Simply put, though sin may abound God’s Grace is greater. If it were not so then we could not be forgiven.

unquote



book of James written by Paul?

seriously?


I think I have my daily dose limit of word of faith version of bible study


I might need some detox now

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Jan 12 2018, 10:42 AM

Alamak...sorry bout the Paul part, my mistake but

Adoi...brother.

Hyper Grace means Grace abounded much more la. Where Sin increased, grace abounded more or hyper increased. Or if you prefered, Grace hypered. Is that okay for you?

Hyper = Abundance.

Where and which part you are confuse?

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jan 12 2018, 11:18 AM

No worries, I have drawn that line a long time ago.

Just thought the readers might want the side of the story of the *cough* transhumanist *cough* joker guy, you know.

Hi unknown warrior,

Since you like Hebrews 10 so much, we’re gonna spend a little more time here. This is what you replied :



You go about explaining things in a roundabout way, but after you’re done, it ends up being even more complicated!

You keep harping on ‘no more sacrifice left if we continue sinning', as if I’m doubting the insufficiency of Christ’s death on the Cross. & that i'm re-crucifying HIm again & again.

You’re entirely missing the point .While it’s true that the writer of Hebrews was talking about sacrifices, etc


Hebrews 10:26-27 is actually very straightforward to understand.

A simple read from the preceding 4 verses makes it so. So let’s let the Bible do the talking,

22.”Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.”

23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.



Are the verses above not directed at the Christian? Who are those in verse 22 then?

Only Christians go through water baptism. Likewise verses 23 – 25 are self-explanatory. Directed at Christians.


So a continuous reading of 26 – 27 from the above :

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Can you not see that the warning is for Christians? Because he’s talking to believers now.



Also if we continue reading, this is what verse 36 say :

For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Does it not tell you it’s a future reward? You have not gotten it yet! We still live in time. God lives outside of time.

Excerpt :

The greatest part of the saints' happiness, as yet, is in promise. It is a trial of the patience of Christians, to be content to live after their work is done, and to stay for their reward till God's time to give it is come.

– commentary Matthew Henry 1710








And then for the following verse you replied :



I wonder how you came to that conclusion! Let’s lay out the whole verse again :

"Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able." – Luke 13:24

How come you conveniently left out the word ‘strive’?


Strive :- make great efforts to achieve or obtain something.

synonyms: try, try hard, attempt, endeavour, aim, aspire, venture, undertake, seek, make an effort, make every effort, spare no effort, exert oneself, do one's best, do all one can, do one's utmost, give one's all, labour, work, toil, strain, struggle, apply oneself


Also, why would many try to masuk, but fail to get in? Maybe because they were not Obedient?

I’m sure they already knew that Christ is the only gate, so no issues there. These are definitely believers, for the non-believing (which is the vast majority) are on the broad road. (Broadway musical? LOL i digress)

Excerpt :

The phrase “narrow is the gate” is fairly easy to understand. A narrow gate is harder to pass through than one that is wide, and only a few people can go through a narrow gate at once. In saying “difficult is the way which leads to life,” Jesus was explaining how hard being a Christian really is.

“Difficult” is from the Greek word thlibo, which means: “To press (as grapes), press hard upon; a compressed way; narrow straitened, contracted” (New Testament Greek Lexicon, www.bibletstudytools.com).






And your point is? I don’t know what you’re trying to say here, since yes, everyone understands this verse relates to the materialistic folks, in need of nothing, who are lukewarm & you’re just agreeing with me here.

My point was entirely about God spitting them (as a church) out for being lukewarm. Very serious action by the Almighty.





Moving on to the church of Thyatira,

UW said :



"And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations" – Rev 2:26

Here again, I don’t quite get you.

So you are saying, that those who are NOT victorious and do NOT do God’s will, will still be very ok at the end, because they only stand to lose the reward of not getting to rule at the most?

And are you sure that not everyone who gets to Heaven will rule with an iron sceptre? You might wanna double check that.

Cos the Bible says We will rule & reign with Christ. No exceptions. No if's, no buts. Either you make it into Heaven, or you don't. You could very well be confusing the above passage as "just" rewards.

You will get the reward of ruling alongside Christ IF you get into Heaven. One of the perks that come along with it.





Next, UW said :




Huh?! What is this ? !

Key verse : " He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. " – Rev 3:5


Nope! The Bible sounds pretty clear cut to me! He will blot out names of those who don’t overcome.

You might also wanna do more research on the book of life, the book of remembrance & the book of deeds & who they're specifically for.

We should also consider that the Bible only has good things to say, to 2 of the 7 churches.






Moving on again . . . .

John 15:6 (NIV) -" If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. "

(KJV) "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
"

UW's explanation :

I gave a Bible verse that clearly states that we must abide in God, otherwise we WILL be CAST OUT & you gave me a whole wall of text of what Love is.

So, to abide & remain in God is to LOVE your neighbours? What the heck is this?!!


Excerpt :

What Does it Mean to “Remain”?

In John 15:4-5 Jesus says,“Live (Remain, Abide) in Me. Make your home in Me just as I do in you. In the same way that a branch can’t bear grapes by itself but only by being joined to the vine, you can’t bear fruit unless you are joined with Me. I am the Vine, you are the branches. When you’re joined with Me and I with you, the relation intimate and organic, the harvest is sure to be abundant. Separated, you can’t produce a thing.”

The Greek word for “remain” in these verses is “meno” and translates “to remain, abide, stay, wait.”

Just like the branch that stays connected to the healthy vine will bear grapes, in order to thrive and bear spiritual fruit we must remain closely connected to Jesus, the Vine, receiving the nutrients of His life-giving Spirit. We must fellowship with Him. We must remain in Him.


Is the above not concise enough? We must pray(communion) talk to Him(eh?), read His Word, be Obedient, don’t love the world, stay close in our walk, etc. Then naturally Love, Trust, Faith will also come, no?







And moving on to the next verse :

1 Corinthians 9:27 (NIV) - "No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize."

(KJV)" But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."


UW said :





Ermmm, Paul did mention about running the race elsewhere in the Bible, but this is NOT that part of the Bible about crowns & rewards.

I already said that your interpretation of this verse is wrong. Here’s why:

The Greek Lexicon is “adokimos”

http://biblehub.com/greek/96.htm

It’s found 8 times in the Bible, of which 6 times it’s linked to the word reprobate. You know what is a reprobate, aite?

Now refer to the verse above, it says he “preached”. What did Paul preach? The Gospel of Salvation!

So isn’t it clear enough, that he was afraid that he might be disqualified from what he preached?

So does this sound like reward to you?

So yes, UW, I’m very careful in understanding things in their context.








Wokehh, I’m running short on time, so just to touch on one more part :

UW replied :

No where did I mention on our fruits not coming from the HS. Again, it was your assumption & you gave me a whole lecture on the Fruits of the HS.

Ok, perhaps I didn’t clearly explain myself which led to you making that assumption. I apologize. My bad.

Obviously He will do a good work in us, which will naturally produce fruits.

BUT on condition that we must abide and continue in Him. Be Obedient. My point of contention has always been on Obedience since post 1.

If we’re not Obedient in the 1st place, if Christians continuously ignore the nudge/pull/draw of the HS? He can’t do any work through us at all, because we refuse to cooperate.

There will be no fruit forthcoming, for we refuse to be used by the HS. And it will only be a downward trajectory from there ------> laziness(stop praying, stop going to church, stop pursuing things of God, etc) -------> unbelief ------> apostasy

Obedience & Belief works hand in hand. You can't just say you are a follower of Jesus & you don't do what he says. It's not optional. James says Faith without Works is a dead Faith.




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Faith Without Works Is Dead (James 2:14-26)

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food,

16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?

17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my[b] works.

19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!

20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[c]

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?

22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?

23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[d] And he was called the friend of God.

24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

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Sigh, I don’t know man . . . .

You have a tendency for the Bible to say, what you want it to say.

Sometimes you read into things that aren’t even there & refuse to see things that are there!

If I may say so, you actually confuse me, if I did not properly dissect your incoherence. And it eats into my time.

I had to read 2-3 (sometimes 4) times to get your points, because your explanations are muddled.

Either your comprehension is bad, or your understanding is very different from other readers.

I didn’t even go to Bible school & I can evidently conclude that your exegesis is very poor.

And you actually had the cheek to say, “

And i never bersangka buruk of u.

But it's ok la . . . . wokehhh, i reealllly, reli must GO! !

Thank you! God Bless!

You come back! You come back to Him. It's not too late. You tell Him why you're bitter. Jacob wrestled with God. He will forgive. Come back. Jesus Loves U.

Err, nope.