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SUSTheOnly1
post Feb 11 2019, 02:18 PM

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So I cannot pray what I like but must follow the format? You mean you will have a fixed set of prayer for each type of request? Let's say I want ps5 to fall from the sky, what is the name of the prayer I need to perform?
SUSTheOnly1
post Feb 11 2019, 02:18 PM

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So I cannot pray what I like but must follow the format? You mean you will have a fixed set of prayer for each type of request? Let's say I want ps5 to fall from the sky, what is the name of the prayer I need to perform?
TSyeeck
post Feb 11 2019, 02:26 PM

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QUOTE(TheOnly1 @ Feb 11 2019, 02:18 PM)
So I cannot pray what I like but must follow the format? You mean you will have a fixed set of prayer for each type of request? Let's say I want ps5 to fall from the sky, what is the name of the prayer I need to perform?
*
For private prayer, you can pray however you like. For public prayer, the Church determines the liturgy.
Hades76
post Feb 11 2019, 02:29 PM

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Alhamdulilah...... The Lords prayer is the word..... So meaningful. Glad to be a Catholic with a steady doctrine and protocols.
SUSTheOnly1
post Feb 11 2019, 06:11 PM

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QUOTE(Hades76 @ Feb 11 2019, 02:29 PM)
Alhamdulilah...... The Lords prayer is the word..... So meaningful. Glad to be a Catholic with a steady doctrine and protocols.
*
Bro, they are quite sensitive if you use their words like Alhamdulillah, just stick back to your bible phrases.
Roman Catholic
post Feb 12 2019, 02:05 AM

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QUOTE(Hades76 @ Jan 14 2019, 09:56 AM)
Well, it not nice to condemn anyone to hell regardless of the perspective. I am sure they see us the same in "worshiping" Mary, when there is only one God. I just pity some of the protestants as they are quite extreme in their ways.
*
Misconceptions like "worshipping" Mary etc, are best addressed immediately, in a matured and civilized manner. Doing it promptly removes any apprehension and opens the door for greater communication, understanding and trust.

Ultimately it's about the love ❤️ one has for neighbour, I reckon. If I have hope and faith but no love, then I'm nothing, right ? St Paul's writings.

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Feb 12 2019, 02:13 AM
Hades76
post Feb 12 2019, 09:26 AM

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QUOTE(TheOnly1 @ Feb 11 2019, 06:11 PM)
Bro, they are quite sensitive if you use their words like Alhamdulillah, just stick back to your bible phrases.
*
Well bro, the word alhamdulillah is praise be to God. This word has been hijacked locally. Just like the word Allah.

Yeah, we have many sensitive people around with tunnel vision.


Roman Catholic
post Feb 13 2019, 06:56 AM

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That's is why our Lord tells us directly not to offend these people, sensitive or otherwise.

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Feb 13 2019, 06:57 AM
TSyeeck
post Feb 13 2019, 03:04 PM

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Homily for the 4th Sunday after Epiphany: “There are Pirates in the Boat”

user posted image

At that time, Jesus got into a boat, and His disciples followed Him. And behold, there arose a great storm on the sea, so that the boat was covered by the waves; but He was asleep. So they came and woke Him, saying: Lord, save us! We are perishing! But He said to them: Why are you fearful, o you of little faith? Then He arose and rebuked the wind and the sea, and there came a great calm. And the men marveled, saying: what manner of man is this, that even the wind and the sea obey Him? (From the Gospel of the day: Matthew VIII, 23-27)

Dear Brethren,

The words of the Holy Gospel that we just heard tell us of what happened when the boat where Jesus was with his disciples was faced with a terrible storm. The waves were so big that it seemed that the boat would sink. So the disciples cried out to the Lord and the storm disappeared.

This is what happened at that time. And this is what is happening today. If we move beyond the literal meaning of the Scriptures, we will be able to see in the Gospel for today not only a faithful narration of what happened in the past, but also a very accurate description of what is happening today. This Gospel teaches us many precious lessons in these terrible times of confusion and scandals.

That boat, where Jesus was with his disciples, is a figure of the Church, the Church navigating the sea of this world, navigating toward heaven. And the storms are all the trials that the Church has to face here on earth. So the Church is a spiritual boat, the boat of Christ, which leads us to the port of salvation. The Catholic Church is the Boat of Christ, the only one that can take us to heaven. And how comforting to know that we are inside this boat!

However, we see in the Gospel that this boat would not be spared storms. The boat would shake; the boat would swing… The Church would not be spared the attacks of her enemies, who would try, without interruption, to sink the boat.

We can see that from the very beginning of the Church: persecutions from the Jews; persecutions from the pagans; and then all the heresies that the Church had to fight over the centuries. So many trials... And sometimes these trials were so strong, sometimes the waves were so big, that it seemed that the boat was going to sink.

But no, the boat didn’t sink… it is still floating. All the tactics of the devil seem to have failed.

But the enemy of God is very clever. He would not give up so easily: he tried to attack the Church openly, and it didn’t work. So he tried another path. His new plan was to quietly insinuate agents of evil into the Church, who would distill their poison, who would corrupt the truth, but now without being recognized.

The plan was to send pirates to hijack the boat of the Church -- pirates who would pretend to be members of the crew of Christ, but who were, instead, members of the crew of Satan. Pirates from the red flag of communism. Pirates from the rainbow flag of immorality. Pirates from the white flag of ecumenism, this false peace that does not come from Christ, because it compromises the Truth.

My brethren, it is with great sadness that we see that these pirates made their way into the boat. They made their way into the Church.

If in the past they had to be careful not be recognized, nowadays they don’t hide anymore. And we can recognize the pirates, not by the clothes they use, but by the words they say. We recognize the infiltrators by their teachings. If someone teaches the truth of Christ, he is from the crew of Christ. But if someone teaches something contrary to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, he is not from Christ, but he is a pirate. It is as simple as that.

So we have to be aware: there are pirates in the boat, there are pirates in the Church. And I would be guilty of a grave sin if I didn’t alert you. This sect of pirates is trying to take control of the Church, and has even climbed to positions of authority in order to give the Church a new direction, opposed to the life giving words of Our Lord. They want to create a “paradigm shift”, a new religion: free from doctrine, free from morality… in a word: free from Christ. They don’t want Christ anymore, because Christ bothers; the words of Christ do not allow them to do whatever they want. And so, of Christ they keep the name only, but not the reality. And then they preach this empty Christ, this deformed Christ, claiming “a new understanding” of things.

I can give you some examples.

Our Lord said that a man who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery. But now they say it’s okay. The Holy Scriptures condemn homosexuality, but now they say it’s all right. The Church always taught that there can be no salvation outside the True Faith, but now they say that it is not really like that.

My brethren, we should know that Truth cannot change. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but the word of the Lord shall remain forever. We cannot try to update the Word of God.

But the pirates do try to change the words of God. They are the anti-Church, somehow mingled with the Church of Christ. The weeds are mingled with the wheat. The Church is in eclipse.

So in these very difficult times, we are called to prove the spirits, as Saint John says, in order to see if they come from God. We have to compare the teachings we receive with what the Church has always taught. That is why we must know our Faith, we must study our Faith, in order to discern what is true from what is false. And that is how we will be able to separate the weeds from the wheat, the heresies from the Truth, and the pirates from the true ministers of Jesus Christ.

Yes, my brethren, there are pirates in the boat. And they are working hard in order to “change the Church”, what is just a nice euphemism for “destroying” the Church. That is what they are up to.

And in these conditions, should we jump out of the boat? Should we leave the Church? No, never! The boat is ours! They are the ones who have to go away.

You know that the situation today is very delicate, very painful. However, with all these scandals coming to light, we have reasons to be hopeful that this will bring about a great purification in the Church; that all the pirates will be named and cast out, and that the true face of the Church will shine again.

Let us have hope, and never forget that Our Lord is in the boat with us.

But if He seems to be sleeping, it is time for us to wake him up with our prayers, with our supplications, asking His boundless mercy that the Church may be delivered from Her enemies, from without and from within, and may experience some peace.

Domine, salva nos perimus.
Lord, save us lest we perish.

Amen.

https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2019/02/h...phany.html#more
khool
post Feb 14 2019, 10:43 AM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Feb 13 2019, 03:04 PM)
Homily for the 4th Sunday after Epiphany: “There are Pirates in the Boat”

user posted image

At that time, Jesus got into a boat, and His disciples followed Him. And behold, there arose a great storm on the sea, so that the boat was covered by the waves; but He was asleep. So they came and woke Him, saying: Lord, save us! We are perishing! But He said to them: Why are you fearful, o you of little faith? Then He arose and rebuked the wind and the sea, and there came a great calm. And the men marveled, saying: what manner of man is this, that even the wind and the sea obey Him? (From the Gospel of the day: Matthew VIII, 23-27)

Dear Brethren,

The words of the Holy Gospel that we just heard tell us of what happened when the boat where Jesus was with his disciples was faced with a terrible storm. The waves were so big that it seemed that the boat would sink. So the disciples cried out to the Lord and the storm disappeared.

This is what happened at that time. And this is what is happening today. If we move beyond the literal meaning of the Scriptures, we will be able to see in the Gospel for today not only a faithful narration of what happened in the past, but also a very accurate description of what is happening today. This Gospel teaches us many precious lessons in these terrible times of confusion and scandals.

That boat, where Jesus was with his disciples, is a figure of the Church, the Church navigating the sea of this world, navigating toward heaven. And the storms are all the trials that the Church has to face here on earth. So the Church is a spiritual boat, the boat of Christ, which leads us to the port of salvation. The Catholic Church is the Boat of Christ, the only one that can take us to heaven. And how comforting to know that we are inside this boat!

However, we see in the Gospel that this boat would not be spared storms. The boat would shake; the boat would swing… The Church would not be spared the attacks of her enemies, who would try, without interruption, to sink the boat.

We can see that from the very beginning of the Church: persecutions from the Jews; persecutions from the pagans; and then all the heresies that the Church had to fight over the centuries. So many trials... And sometimes these trials were so strong, sometimes the waves were so big, that it seemed that the boat was going to sink.

But no, the boat didn’t sink… it is still floating. All the tactics of the devil seem to have failed.

But the enemy of God is very clever. He would not give up so easily: he tried to attack the Church openly, and it didn’t work. So he tried another path. His new plan was to quietly insinuate agents of evil into the Church, who would distill their poison, who would corrupt the truth, but now without being recognized.

The plan was to send pirates to hijack the boat of the Church -- pirates who would pretend to be members of the crew of Christ, but who were, instead, members of the crew of Satan. Pirates from the red flag of communism. Pirates from the rainbow flag of immorality. Pirates from the white flag of ecumenism, this false peace that does not come from Christ, because it compromises the Truth.

My brethren, it is with great sadness that we see that these pirates made their way into the boat. They made their way into the Church.

If in the past they had to be careful not be recognized, nowadays they don’t hide anymore. And we can recognize the pirates, not by the clothes they use, but by the words they say. We recognize the infiltrators by their teachings. If someone teaches the truth of Christ, he is from the crew of Christ. But if someone teaches something contrary to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, he is not from Christ, but he is a pirate. It is as simple as that.

So we have to be aware: there are pirates in the boat, there are pirates in the Church. And I would be guilty of a grave sin if I didn’t alert you. This sect of pirates is trying to take control of the Church, and has even climbed to positions of authority in order to give the Church a new direction, opposed to the life giving words of Our Lord. They want to create a “paradigm shift”, a new religion: free from doctrine, free from morality… in a word: free from Christ. They don’t want Christ anymore, because Christ bothers; the words of Christ do not allow them to do whatever they want. And so, of Christ they keep the name only, but not the reality. And then they preach this empty Christ, this deformed Christ, claiming “a new understanding” of things.

I can give you some examples.

Our Lord said that a man who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery. But now they say it’s okay. The Holy Scriptures condemn homosexuality, but now they say it’s all right. The Church always taught that there can be no salvation outside the True Faith, but now they say that it is not really like that.

My brethren, we should know that Truth cannot change. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but the word of the Lord shall remain forever. We cannot try to update the Word of God.

But the pirates do try to change the words of God. They are the anti-Church, somehow mingled with the Church of Christ. The weeds are mingled with the wheat. The Church is in eclipse.

So in these very difficult times, we are called to prove the spirits, as Saint John says, in order to see if they come from God. We have to compare the teachings we receive with what the Church has always taught. That is why we must know our Faith, we must study our Faith, in order to discern what is true from what is false. And that is how we will be able to separate the weeds from the wheat, the heresies from the Truth, and the pirates from the true ministers of Jesus Christ.

Yes, my brethren, there are pirates in the boat. And they are working hard in order to “change the Church”, what is just a nice euphemism for “destroying” the Church. That is what they are up to.

And in these conditions, should we jump out of the boat? Should we leave the Church? No, never! The boat is ours! They are the ones who have to go away.

You know that the situation today is very delicate, very painful. However, with all these scandals coming to light, we have reasons to be hopeful that this will bring about a great purification in the Church; that all the pirates will be named and cast out, and that the true face of the Church will shine again.

Let us have hope, and never forget that Our Lord is in the boat with us.

But if He seems to be sleeping, it is time for us to wake him up with our prayers, with our supplications, asking His boundless mercy that the Church may be delivered from Her enemies, from without and from within, and may experience some peace.

Domine, salva nos perimus.
Lord, save us lest we perish.

Amen.

https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2019/02/h...phany.html#more
*
Are you that worried? I am not ... biggrin.gif

Matthew 10:16-18 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)

[b]Coming Persecutions[b]

“See, I am sending you out like sheep into the midst of wolves; so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. Beware of them, for they will hand you over to councils and flog you in their synagogues; and you will be dragged before governors and kings because of me, as a testimony to them and the Gentiles.

Matthew 16:18-20 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)

And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” Then he sternly ordered the disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.


John 15:18-25 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)

[b]The World’s Hatred[b]

“If the world hates you, be aware that it hated me before it hated you. If you belonged to the world, the world would love you as its own. Because you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world - therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, ‘Servants are not greater than their master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you; if they kept my word, they will keep yours also. But they will do all these things to you on account of my name, because they do not know him who sent me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. Whoever hates me hates my Father also. If I had not done among them the works that no one else did, they would not have sin. But now they have seen and hated both me and my Father. It was to fulfill the word that is written in their law, ‘They hated me without a cause.’


1 Timothy 3:15 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)

if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the Church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.

user posted image

Pax brother! biggrin.gif


khool
post Feb 14 2019, 10:56 AM

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Happy are you who are poor

Sixth Sunday in Ordinary Time Year C

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We are in for a treat this weekend. I’m not sure about you but I’m personally excited. It’s not always that you get to celebrate the liturgy of the Sixth Sunday in Ordinary Time in the Year C cycle. The last occasion was in 2010! It’s like a liturgical leap year of sorts. We have a late occurrence of Ash Wednesday and Lent this year to thank for this. An added treat would be that the gospel passage features the beatitudes as found in the Gospel of St Luke, and not the familiar eight that we hear more frequently (well, at least once a year on the Solemnity of All Saints and it comes at the top of a list of options for funerals).

The beatitudes in the famous Sermon on the Mount in the Gospel of St Matthew and the Sermon of the Plains in St Luke contain some similarities and differences, despite the great likelihood that these are a narration of the same sermon. The striking difference between the two is to be found in the number of beatitudes: in Luke, who gives us four, compared to Matthew’s eight more developed beatitudes. But Luke balances his four blessings with four corresponding curses or ‘woes’ (or in our text “alas for you”). The Matthean beatitudes sees the world with a Jewish lens, where groups of people are identified as the righteous and the unrighteous. The Lukan beatitudes, on the other hand identify and categorise humanity as simply the poor and the rich. The Law, rightousness and piety found in the Matthean text is all but absent from the gospel of St Luke. St Luke is more concerned with the universality of the mission and message of our Lord Jesus Christ. We will not have sufficient time for a complete comparison of the two versions, but suffice to say that they are not just redundant repetitions.

After having provided the context of the sermon on the Plain (topographical location, demography of the audience), St Luke makes this poignant statement, “then fixing his eyes on his disciples, (Jesus), said …” In some translations, we have “And he, lifting up his eyes on his disciples.” This simple action of the Lord provides us with a clue of what is going to follow. St Ambrose asks, “What is lifting up the eyes, but to disclose a more hidden light?” Christ is calling His hearers to a deeper understanding of God and His plan for mankind. The Lord is not simply calling us to pay attention, but rather, He is calling us to see with the eyes of faith.

Then we begin with the set of four beatitudes. Thirty years ago, the Jerusalem Bible created a stir by rendering the traditional “blessed” of the Beatitudes as “happy”: “How happy are you who are poor . . .” Happy? What a choice of word! Happy sounds frivolous and superficial. But the Greek word “makarioi” can be translated as both “blessing” as well as “happiness”. The problem is that many today often associate happiness with "having a good time"–with pleasure and comfort, the absence of suffering and want. But contemporary usage is flawed. True happiness is spiritual and moral, not merely emotional or pleasurable. The saints in heaven are supremely happy, because they're with God, the source of all happiness.

Just as the beatitudes in the Matthean gospel is hinged on the first beatitude, the four beatitudes of St Luke are likewise summarised in the first. That makes my preaching so much easier and your listening so less demanding. What is it about poverty that is so “blessed” or “happy” or even authentically “human”? We must first make a critical distinction between poverty and destitution. All human beings are entitled to have their basic needs met. The fact that millions are living in our world in the state of destitution, where hunger and disease ravage entire nations, is a great sin against humanity. There is certainly no blessing in this, neither should it ever be a cause of happiness. Every time we withhold our cloak from the naked or our food from the hungry, we sin, not only against the human person, but also against the Lord Himself. But poverty, or at least evangelical poverty, is not identical with destitution. The destitute may think of themselves as forsaken, but the poor are definitely not forsaken by God. Poverty is the state of simplicity, that is the state of having only what one needs. Poverty brings with it the simplicity to give oneself to God, who is the final cause of all of humanity. God is their wealth.

As the spiritual writers unanimously observed, to advance in the life of virtue, poverty must come first. This is due to the chasm that lies between God and the world, the Creator and His creatures. This world and all its riches is God’s gift to us to be used as a means for our return to Him. Simply put: God is the end; things are means to this end. On the other hand, the possession of material goods beyond that of basic necessity brings with it the risk of using goods as ends in themselves. Things therefore become our ‘idols.’ The outcome would be the proliferation of vices like greed, envy and possessiveness. It is interesting that, while Christ cured the sick, made the blind see, made the deaf hear, but to my recollection, He never once made a poor man rich. Illness, blindness, and deafness are deprivations; poverty is not. Likewise, when one is deprived of the basic needs of life, this physical state of destitution necessarily brings with it the challenge of spiritual destitution. This is precisely why we must work to eliminate destitution in the world, not primarily because of the physical sufferings, but first and foremost to allow God’s people the freedom to worship Him in health of body, mind, and soul.

Christ, in this first beatitude, does not say, “To those who are impoverished, I say to you, the day will come when I will relieve you of this poverty and make you rich.” That’s the gospel of prosperity often preached by successful and popular pastors. No wonder, thousands throng to their churches. Instead, our Lord says, “happy are you who are poor.” Poverty itself brings with it blessing, or rather, sanctity. The poor understand their need for God. The poor’s security and wealth lies with God. If the possession of goods beyond that of basic needs bring with it the risk of treating this excess as an end in itself, then it follows that the more we possess, the further we find ourselves from pursuing our proper end: God. We cannot serve both God and mammon. The further we are from our proper end, the less human we find ourselves. This explains the unique theme of reversal present in St Luke’s beatitudes, the so-called four ‘woes’ as opposed to the four ‘blessings. Wealth, full stomachs, contentment and human respect, though good in themselves, can also risk becoming dangerous. They can lead us to believe only in ourselves and our resources and forget our true end which is God and His Kingdom.

I hope that I have not given the impression that the Church has canonised material poverty as the ladder to heaven. The state of poverty cannot just be purely material; material poverty alone does not bring salvation. St Basil warns us, “for many are poor in their possessions, yet most covetous in their disposition; these poverty does not save, but their affections condemn.” Material poverty in order to be humanising and divinising must be accompanied by spiritual poverty – being “poor in spirit.” On the other hand, neither is the state of poverty purely spiritual. There are those who want to reduce Christ’s call to poverty to the mere spiritual detachment from goods and continue to live scandalously lavish lives at the expense of the poor. This too is a distortion of the Gospel message. Finally, this beatitude should certainly not excuse us from our responsibility to assist those who are in a state of destitution. Evangelical poverty can never mean a rejection of all material goods which are good in themselves. But it is an invitation to see that these things are better when they are shared with those who have-not. As we continue our celebration of this Year of Mission, let us not forget the last point of the star. That our encounter with Christ, our learning from missionary testimonies and catecheses, should lead us to missionary charity, and in doing so, may we give true glory and worship to God, who became poor so that we may become rich in His graces.

Source: http://michaelckw.blogspot.com/

TSyeeck
post Feb 15 2019, 02:15 PM

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The Hell of Faith: ‘Dreadful Possibility’ and ‘Terrible Reality’ at Once

There is a sense of mounting intensity in the Church. Within the last ten days alone, the following has happened:

Pope Francis and Ahmad Al-Tayyeb, the Grand Imam of Al-Azhar Mosque, signed a “Document on Human Fraternity,” which says that “the diversity of religions” is “willed by God in His wisdom.”

Subsequently, many have reacted, directly or indirectly, to the serious theological questions this document raises. Included among those writing on the subject are Phil Lawler (“Not all religions are part of God’s plan”) and Bishop Athanasius Schneider (“The Gift of Filial Adoption”).

Four days after the joint statement of the Vicar of Christ and the Grand Imam, the former Prefect of the CDF, Gerhard Ludwig Cardinal Müller, published a “Manifesto of Faith” in seven different languages. This very powerful statement has been praised by Bishops (including the aforementioned Bishop Schneider), and by other clergy and laity. But it has also ruffled the feathers of another German Cardinal, the progressivist Walter Cardinal Kasper, whose inter-religious sensibilities appear to have been offended by his more doctrinaire countryman and brother cardinal. In a similitude bound to cause confusion among ecumenists, Cardinal Kasper compared Cardinal Müller to Martin Luther. Moreover, an unsurprising collection of progressivists has gathered to condemn the “Manifesto,” including the Rev. James Martin, who took to Twitter over it.

And only Tuesday, we learned of the publication of a new book by an ostensibly well informed French sociologist claiming that a full eighty percent of the clerics working in the Roman Curia are homosexual.

Difficult times.

Let us turn our attention to one section of Cardinal Müller’s “Manifesto of Faith,” wherein the eminent author considers the basic truths of the four last things. Having mentioned death, judgement, and Heaven, he goes on to state these hard truths concerning hell:

There is also the dreadful possibility that a person will remain opposed to God to the very end, and by definitely refusing His Love, “condemns himself immediately and forever” (CCC 1022). “God created us without us, but He did not want to save us without us” (CCC 1847). The eternity of the punishment of hell is a terrible reality, which — according to the testimony of Holy Scripture — attracts all who “die in the state of mortal sin” (CCC 1035). The Christian goes through the narrow gate, for “the gate is wide, and the way that leads to ruin is wide, and many are upon it” (Mt 7:13).

To keep silent about these and the other truths of the Faith and to teach people accordingly is the greatest deception against which the Catechism vigorously warns. It represents the last trial of the Church and leads man to a religious delusion, “the price of their apostasy” (CCC 675); it is the fraud of Antichrist. “He will deceive those who are lost by all means of injustice; for they have closed themselves to the love of the truth by which they should be saved” (2 Thess 2:10).
Earlier in his “Manifesto,” Cardinal Müller had written of the sad state of ignorance that exists among the faithful. Far from excusing them from their Christian obligations and giving them a free pass to Heaven, that state of ignorance is a danger to their immortal souls: “Today,” wrote His Eminence, “many Christians are no longer even aware of the basic teachings of the Faith, so there is a growing danger of missing the path to eternal life” (emphasis mine). This pastoral concern reminded me of what that great shepherd, Pope Saint Pius X, wrote in his Acerbo Nimis: “It is a common complaint, unfortunately too well founded, that there are large numbers of Christians in our own time who are entirely ignorant of those truths necessary for salvation. … And so Our Predecessor, Benedict XIV, had just cause to write: ‘We declare that a great number of those who are condemned to eternal punishment suffer that everlasting calamity because of ignorance of those mysteries of faith which must be known and believed in order to be numbered among the elect.’”

The “Manifesto” mentions salvation numerous times, and does so in a way that avoids the common errors of our day, errors like presumption, indifferentism (for he associates salvation with Christ and His “Mystical Body,” the Catholic Church), or the soft-core modernism that makes eternal life something natural to man. Evidently, as the above paragraphs on hell would indicate, His Eminence is no disciple of Hans Urs von Balthasar.

In the several paragraphs that follow, I am borrowing very heavily from a polemical piece that my beloved mentor and superior, Brother Francis, M.I.C.M., wrote many years ago. Both to shorten the text and to remove the not-presently-relevant particulars of the polemic, I am applying a very heavy editorial hand.

All the truths about hell belong to those mysteries which are not the proper object of reason. The best that we can do with hell rationally is to show that it is not absurd. The Rationalists make hell absurd to begin with, and then they try to make it empty — or to make believe that it is empty. In a book on Catholic Doctrine by the Very Rev. William Byrne, D.D., published in 1892, hell is defined as “the state or place of those condemned to eternal punishment.”

It is very hard for us to see from reason how any crime of man can ever deserve eternal punishment. “An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth” is reasonable. When a man kills another man, kill him, but why send him to eternal fire? Why send the unbaptized baby to an everlasting punishment of loss (soon to be explained) for a crime he did not personally commit?

But the hell of Faith is not a punishment for crime, but for sin; and sin adds to crime an entirely new aspect — the aspect of contempt or even hatred of God. It is because the everlasting God commanded “Thou shalt not kill” that murder becomes more than a crime — a sin.

The essence of hell consists in the loss of the Beatific Vision, a punishment common both to hell (proper) and to the Limbo of the unbaptized. The torments of hell (poena sensus) — those punishments for actual sin that are superadded to the pain of loss of heavenly beatitude (the poena damni) — belong to the accidental part of the eternal punishment. They are completely absent from Limbo. With regard to these, the same Father Byrne we have already quoted says:

“All the damned do not suffer alike. The punishment is proportioned to the malice and gravity of their sins. ‘Give unto her double according to her works.’ (Apoc. 18:6.)”

But even the guilt of original sin, by which we inherit a nature lacking the supernatural requirements (and even the supernatural desire) for the Beatific Vision, carries with it the loss of that infinite good. Naturally speaking, that good of heavenly Beatitude can neither be desired nor missed by any creature not reborn by grace.

The souls of unbaptized infants can be naturally happy. Part of their natural happiness consists in a connatural love of God, their Creator — a love and happiness not forfeited as a result of original sin. But these souls have not inherited the primordial state of grace which belonged to Adam before the fall, nor were they regenerated (born again) by the waters of Baptism.

We have, as we might say, an imperfect knowledge of hell which comes from the virtue of Faith. But, just as no man really knows darkness who has not seen the light, no man fully comprehends the doctrine of hell until he has the Beatific Vision. We cannot know hell now any more perfectly than we can know Heaven; and we know about Heaven merely because He Who came down from Heaven has deigned to reveal that truth to us.

If you ask the natural man to describe what to him would be Heaven, he can at best describe a hell, more or less comfortable. For Jesus, our Savior, revealed to us not merely the way to salvation, but the reality itself, and we have to take salvation on His entirely supernatural terms. "Now this is eternal life: That they may know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent" (John 17:3).

And now, I would like to conclude these thoughts on hell with the exact words of Brother Francis, taken from his wonderful book of meditations, The Challenge of Faith:

It is possible to imagine a hell that would be incompatible with a merciful, or even with a just God; but that would not be the authentic hell of Scripture, of dogma, and of Faith.
The essence of hell is the loss of the Beatific Vision; therefore it is the loss of something whose very reality is known only through faith.
Even in hell, not only the justice and wisdom of God, but also His mercy and love must be in evidence. This we cannot see now, but we will see in eternity. No one is punished in hell beyond the measure due to his sins.
Where sufficient awareness exists of the danger of being separated from God for all eternity, no other punishment of hell need be emphasized; but the fires and worms of hell must be preached where weakness of faith or its complete absence make light of the loss of God.
Without the faith, the best that our nature would desire, would amount to nothing better than a comfortable hell. This is actually most peoples’ conception of a heaven.
The first effects of the action of grace is to give us holy desires: hungers and thirsts for things far above this world and all that it can offer.
The men of holy desires, alone, understand.
For more on the subject, I point the reader to a longer piece I wrote: “There Is a Hell, and It Makes Perfect Sense.”

Let us, in gratitude, pray for Gerhard Ludwig Cardinal Müller. And let us pray for the Church Universal. The confusion and scandal of these last ten days are nothing compared to what’s coming.

But remember, “he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved” (Matt. 24:13).

In the Immaculate Heart of Mary,
Brother André Marie, M.I.C.M.
thomasthai
post Feb 25 2019, 09:28 AM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Feb 22 2019, 11:40 AM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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First of all, I just want to say I appreciate your kindness in your reply. You have demonstrated more humility than many others that I have encountered.

Second, since the ts of the other christian thread have requested to take our discussion somewhere else, I would like to do it here if it is ok with the ts.

My end goal is not to win a debate or pick a fight. I have always endeavoured to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ to whoever I meet. I will understand if the ts doesn't want to start a debate here.

Thanks.

TSyeeck
post Feb 25 2019, 11:55 AM

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QUOTE(thomasthai @ Feb 25 2019, 09:28 AM)
First of all, I just want to say I appreciate your kindness in your reply. You have demonstrated more humility than many others that I have encountered.

Second, since the ts of the other christian thread have requested to take our discussion somewhere else, I would like to do it here if it is ok with the ts.

My end goal is not to win a debate or pick a fight. I have always endeavoured to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ to whoever I meet. I will understand if the ts doesn't want to start a debate here.

Thanks.
*
You are most welcome to ask any questions on anything regarding the Catholic Faith or to bring up your points if you disagree with me.
Hades76
post Feb 25 2019, 11:58 AM

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The other saw a documentary on Dante's Inferno. Looks interesting. Nice layers of hell.
khool
post Feb 25 2019, 02:29 PM

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user posted image

thomasthai
post Feb 27 2019, 08:07 AM

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https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/fallou...10b3bb104c6d8c9

The cardinal of Australia George Pell, who also holds the 3rd highest position as the treasurer in Vatican has been found guilty of child sex abuse.

What are your thoughts on this issue?
TSyeeck
post Feb 27 2019, 10:09 AM

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QUOTE(thomasthai @ Feb 27 2019, 08:07 AM)
https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/fallou...10b3bb104c6d8c9

The cardinal of Australia George Pell, who also holds the 3rd highest position as the treasurer in Vatican has been found guilty of child sex abuse.

What are your thoughts on this issue?
*
https://onepeterfive.com/cardinal-pells-con...al-falls-apart/

"The allegations are understood to concern Pell assaulting the two choristers in the sacristy of Melbourne cathedral on several occasions immediately following Sunday Mass.

The defense presented a range of witnesses who testified that the cardinal was never alone in the sacristy with altar servers or members of the choir, and that in all the circumstances under which the allegations are alleged to have taken place, several people would have been present in the room.

The sacristy in Melbourne’s Cathedral has large open-plan rooms, each with open arches and halls, and multiple entrances and exits, the defense noted."

This post has been edited by yeeck: Feb 27 2019, 10:10 AM
unknown warrior
post Feb 27 2019, 10:16 AM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Feb 15 2019, 11:33 AM)
If there are Catholics who thinks Mary is not a creature but equal to God, then they are wrong as the Church has never taught such a thing. I've mentioned different degrees of worship/veneration in the past, so I won't repeat it here, but we can never venerate Mary on the same level as God. As for thinking that is no need to venerate Mary or the saints and angels, let me give an example. If we believe all the saints and angels are alive in Christ and are like our family members in the mystical Body of Christ (read up on the concept of the Church Triumphant, Militant, Suffering), aka the doctrine of Communion of Saints, do we treat them with disdain and ignore them? Would we do the same to our fellow brethren in the Faith here on earth? Food for thought.

As for baptism, I have quoted scripture to back up that it does wash away sins. The thief on the cross can be easily explained. He was still under the Old Covenant, Christ ascended to Heaven 40 days after His resurrection. So the thief couldn't have been in Heaven before Christ did. Catholic Tradition explains that Christ descended into Hell (as per the Creed, not the Hell of eternal punishment but the place of the Fathers of the Old Covenant traditionally called Limbo of the Fathers of the OT) between the time of his Crucifixion and his Resurrection when he brought salvation to all of the righteous who had died since the beginning of the world. The soul of the good thief would be together with these righteous souls and enter Heaven together with Christ at His Ascension.

user posted image
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Nobody is asking to disdain them but we don't have to pray to any saints or angels or even kiss whatever statues that represents them imo, it is not scriptural imo.

If he was still under the old covenant, that makes it worse Yeeck, think about it, how do you atone for your sins in the Old Covenant? Did the thief do anything as per Old Covenant requirement? What he did seem to apply more under the New Covenant so much so that Christ grants him to paradise......"FAITH". <-----

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Feb 27 2019, 10:19 AM
Hades76
post Feb 27 2019, 10:21 AM

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QUOTE(thomasthai @ Feb 27 2019, 08:07 AM)
https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/fallou...10b3bb104c6d8c9

The cardinal of Australia George Pell, who also holds the 3rd highest position as the treasurer in Vatican has been found guilty of child sex abuse.

What are your thoughts on this issue?
*
Sexual abuse is wrong regardless of religion. If found guilty, send him to jail for punishment.

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