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prophetjul
post Dec 25 2023, 10:40 AM

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QUOTE(khool @ Dec 22 2023, 12:12 PM)
To idiot K-Tards in LYN who think The One Holy Catholic Church is endorsing gay marriage ...  lol.gif  wink3.gif  lol.gif

user posted image

WHAT DID THE POPE REALLY SAY?

Lots of sputtering about blessings, given or withheld with the latest media spin on our Holy Father’s words on the issue.

On blessings:
Re: the Holy Father and his Dicastry.

It's the spin the press wants.
It is NOT the point of the Holy Father's words.

Remember at every Mass the priest blesses sinners: couples living together, those using contraception, adulterers, etc etc. AND that's the point of the blessing: God deigns to bless everyone. What we DO with the Grace the blessing imparts is up to us.
The pope is simply saying that a priest can bless anyone/everyone. He also notes that a priest can consecrate ONLY males with females for the blessing of marriage. There is a distinction (always has been) in the point and power/authority of blessings. Some can be given by the non ordained if given in an individual's name, like a dad giving HIS blessing to a marriage.

But when done in the name of the whole Body, ordination is a prerequisite.

Now the Church is stating the obvious (as it often does) that in the Name of the Church, a priest can bless a gay couple, as in asking God to help and guide them. He CANNOT bless a gay couple in the manner of uniting them as one in a covenant relationship forever.
The "matter" is not present for the "form" to be used or be effective. (If i consecrate pretzels and beer at a campus Mass the "matter" required, bread and wine is not present, and the "form" is not effective. The lack of the proper matter indicates that it is being done outside the mind of the Church and cannot be effective outside the Body's intent.)

Remember in the sacrament of marriage a Priest/deacon acts as a witness. The COUPLE ENACT THE SACRAMENT. the ordained simply testifies to the effectiveness of their act as according to the faith of the church

Same with marriage.  The "matter" is the male/female couple. Not present, not effective, not in the mind of the Church. BUT JUST AS I BLESS MANY THINGS at a given Mass (water) and ask God to help the persons, the objects etc to become a sign of grace, it is NOT the same as a consecratory blessing( eg. Of the bread and wine).  Our Holy Father isn't saying anything really new.

If we can bless a house, we can bless people in need or those seeking God's love.
Blessings do not impart approval. They impart grace which can help lead to approval.
*
laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

TSyeeck
post Dec 25 2023, 04:55 PM

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But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil. Matthew 5:37
De_Luffy
post Jan 1 2024, 11:16 PM

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From: Klang
QUOTE(khool @ Dec 22 2023, 12:12 PM)
To idiot K-Tards in LYN who think The One Holy Catholic Church is endorsing gay marriage ...  lol.gif  wink3.gif  lol.gif

user posted image

WHAT DID THE POPE REALLY SAY?

Lots of sputtering about blessings, given or withheld with the latest media spin on our Holy Father’s words on the issue.

On blessings:
Re: the Holy Father and his Dicastry.

It's the spin the press wants.
It is NOT the point of the Holy Father's words.

Remember at every Mass the priest blesses sinners: couples living together, those using contraception, adulterers, etc etc. AND that's the point of the blessing: God deigns to bless everyone. What we DO with the Grace the blessing imparts is up to us.
The pope is simply saying that a priest can bless anyone/everyone. He also notes that a priest can consecrate ONLY males with females for the blessing of marriage. There is a distinction (always has been) in the point and power/authority of blessings. Some can be given by the non ordained if given in an individual's name, like a dad giving HIS blessing to a marriage.

But when done in the name of the whole Body, ordination is a prerequisite.

Now the Church is stating the obvious (as it often does) that in the Name of the Church, a priest can bless a gay couple, as in asking God to help and guide them. He CANNOT bless a gay couple in the manner of uniting them as one in a covenant relationship forever.
The "matter" is not present for the "form" to be used or be effective. (If i consecrate pretzels and beer at a campus Mass the "matter" required, bread and wine is not present, and the "form" is not effective. The lack of the proper matter indicates that it is being done outside the mind of the Church and cannot be effective outside the Body's intent.)

Remember in the sacrament of marriage a Priest/deacon acts as a witness. The COUPLE ENACT THE SACRAMENT. the ordained simply testifies to the effectiveness of their act as according to the faith of the church

Same with marriage.  The "matter" is the male/female couple. Not present, not effective, not in the mind of the Church. BUT JUST AS I BLESS MANY THINGS at a given Mass (water) and ask God to help the persons, the objects etc to become a sign of grace, it is NOT the same as a consecratory blessing( eg. Of the bread and wine).  Our Holy Father isn't saying anything really new.

If we can bless a house, we can bless people in need or those seeking God's love.
Blessings do not impart approval. They impart grace which can help lead to approval.
*
I wondering why Catholics Pope suddenly make an u-turn on gay marriage?, aren't this was against the Bible teaching?
g0ldeneye
post Jan 2 2024, 08:35 AM

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A blessing is NOT a Marriage.
The church believes all sinners deserve to receive God's Blessings as God Loves All.

QUOTE(De_Luffy @ Jan 1 2024, 11:16 PM)
I wondering why Catholics Pope suddenly make an u-turn on gay marriage?, aren't this was against the Bible teaching?
*
TSyeeck
post Jan 2 2024, 11:53 AM

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QUOTE(De_Luffy @ Jan 1 2024, 11:16 PM)
I wondering why Catholics Pope suddenly make an u-turn on gay marriage?, aren't this was against the Bible teaching?
*
The document didn't say gay marriage was OK, in fact it said not OK. But the controversy is regarding blessings, say a man and his bf or an openly adulterous man & woman comes to a priest to get blessed for their "relationship". That is not OK either!
De_Luffy
post Jan 3 2024, 08:49 AM

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From: Klang
QUOTE(yeeck @ Jan 2 2024, 11:53 AM)
The document didn't say gay marriage was OK, in fact it said not OK. But the controversy is regarding blessings, say a man and his bf or an openly adulterous man & woman comes to a priest to get blessed for their "relationship". That is not OK either!
*
Blessings or marriages on gay couple both are not ok right according to the Bible? but Catholic pope clearly said giving blessings to gay couple relationship?
What's this sudden U-turn? it's seem that end of times is coming already, anti Christ will be appearing as well
g0ldeneye
post Jan 3 2024, 12:11 PM

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It’s essential to note that the document doesn’t change the Catholic Church’s teaching on gay marriage. It’s prohibited — without exception.
What is evolving is how the Church responds to LGBT people who participate in same-sex relationships.

This Christmas season, priests as usual will visit prisons across the world to give their blessings to rapists, pedophiles, and murderers. If they can do that with people whose sins are nearly unforgivable, they most certainly do that with people whose “irregular relationships” are not.

A blessing isn’t an endorsement, it is not an approval.
It’s an invitation to God and the persons receiving it to grow closer to God.
This unconditional love, preached by Jesus Christ, forms the bedrock of Christian ethics.


QUOTE(De_Luffy @ Jan 3 2024, 08:49 AM)
Blessings or marriages on gay couple both are not ok right according to the Bible? but Catholic pope clearly said giving blessings to gay couple relationship?
What's this sudden U-turn? it's seem that end of times is coming already, anti Christ will be appearing as well
*
This post has been edited by g0ldeneye: Jan 3 2024, 12:12 PM
TSyeeck
post Jan 5 2024, 10:14 AM

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QUOTE(g0ldeneye @ Jan 3 2024, 12:11 PM)
It’s essential to note that the document doesn’t change the Catholic Church’s teaching on gay marriage. It’s prohibited — without exception.
What is evolving is how the Church responds to LGBT people who participate in same-sex relationships.

This Christmas season, priests as usual will visit prisons across the world to give their blessings to rapists, pedophiles, and murderers. If they can do that with people whose sins are nearly unforgivable, they most certainly do that with people whose “irregular relationships” are not.

A blessing isn’t an endorsement, it is not an approval.
It’s an invitation to God and the persons receiving it to grow closer to God.
This unconditional love, preached by Jesus Christ, forms the bedrock of Christian ethics.
*
There is a difference in those cases if they are not flaunting what they did as something to be blessed or approved.

In the case of sodomical or adulterous relationships, if they come together to request such blessings, it is a source of public scandal, unless they come individually requesting blessings that they can have the grace to amend their lives.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Jan 8 2024, 07:32 PM
khool
post Yesterday, 02:14 PM

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Blessed Easter Triduum!!!




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