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 [OFFICIAL]Rig Suggestion Q&A Thread V13!

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babylon52281
post Jan 14 2023, 03:18 PM

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QUOTE(eddie2020 @ Jan 14 2023, 01:06 PM)
I think going for nvdia GPU is more value? My monitor is 144 refresh Rate.. So if i use 3060ti it might not sufficient? Not sure if there is some chart or something which able to see GPU vs resolution vs fps
With the price if we build ourself will we have decent spec?
Erm I waited from last year Oct.. If end of this year then it will be 14400 already haha.. Not going till 4060TI atm as I not superhardcore..
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There are plenty of reviews comparing both. In a nutshell, 6700XT has higher FPS in raster, 3060Ti has higher FPS in RT. Both will suffice for 144HZ if on 1080 or 1440 monitor.

If you talking about pricing, the cheapest 3060TI (OCPC) is RM 1500 while a 6700XT i last check is hovering at <RM2000. As comparison, a 3070 (Manli) is <RM 1900 which will beat both in performance.

Thing is Msia prices are just screwed since in Western world, the 6700XT prices has actually fallen below 3060Ti. AMD Msia must be smoking very strong stuff.

IMO if you had waited since last year, should have bought then in Nov/Dec then can claim RM 5000 tax incentive, cuz from this year it will revert back to RM 2500.

Anyhow if ur buying this early in the year, be mindful that you get in that system posted, everything will be one generation older; CPU, mobo, GPU, RAM.

This post has been edited by babylon52281: Jan 14 2023, 03:26 PM
babylon52281
post Jan 14 2023, 04:26 PM

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QUOTE(darksider @ Jan 14 2023, 08:04 AM)
all three arctic fans have their own 3pin5v, but i dont use them as i dont have a daisay / connector, i just connect their 4v fan header to the daisy chain of fan. then in pump socket there is one 3pin5v thats the only one i connect.

the one from my casing fan its a straight 3pin (no gap) -> 3pin socket -> 3pin(1 gap)5v. so cannot swap.
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I would recommend to read again carefully both sets of manual for both the mobo and cooler. Take out the fans one by one and test them.
babylon52281
post Jan 15 2023, 02:38 AM

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QUOTE(BaDKiDz @ Jan 14 2023, 09:35 PM)
Thinking of budget 4k, but it seems will be near 5k.

I5 13400F 
ASROCK B760M PG Sonic WiFi DDR5 1819 Bundle mobo i5
ASROCK RX 6700 XT                          1899
Kingston DDR5 5200 16gb 8x2          385
Kingston SSD 960GB                    290
Case                                                250+- ? Any recommendation for Micro ATX?/mini tower?
PSU                                                ??? Any recommendation and how many power i need?

My monitor 2k reso 144fps. .
Above build for futureproof DDR5. Or do i have other option / recommendation to reduce? I need WiFi on the mobo as i hate to have lan cable messing around
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Futureproofing DDR5 when its so early in its life is absurd. If you really want to "futureproof" ur RAM, get DDR5 7200 as you can addon later without impeding ur RAM performance. That 5200 is no better than DDR4 3600 in FPS and when comes to upgrade ur RAM it will either slowdown ur newer, faster RAM or you will have to chuck them out for the new RAMs.
babylon52281
post Jan 15 2023, 03:06 AM

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QUOTE(eddie2020 @ Jan 14 2023, 10:45 PM)
so our minimum playable will be around 40fps. . it seems review most of those game i check in YT using 3060ti vs 6700XT you recommend it seems lowest fps it drop around 4x-5x like ultra setting everything on for cyberpunk... in high setting most of it above 60fps..
i try to find in shopee, i cant find 3060TI below 1.5k. what is OCPC? Those used then will have below 1.5k but not sure these used one in shopee only have like 1 month to 3 month warranty, and we might not know if its mining gpu.
I saw one Manli 3070 priced at 1.8k+ 
It seems 6750XT and 6700XT similar price,
Not sure what is this xfx lowest price for 6700 at 1.7k.
https://shopee.com.my/-XFX-SPEEDSTER-SWFT-3...46-6d22c6f0c4f1
so i guess 6750 have more value
https://shopee.com.my/-SAPPHIRE-PULSE-AMD-R...0d-79e3ca86b7d3
B660M its considered low end board?  Thanks for the recommendation, however i think intel is better, and lower temperature own amd before long time ago.
i5 12400F started to drop price,
RM 675 https://shopee.com.my/Intel-CPU-i3-12100-12...83-b8ff1fefb87c

Add 250 - RM919 13400F (does it add value for the extra eco core?)
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OCPC is one of Nvidia AIB and in our market they carry some of the cheapest priced cards, an RTX 3060Ti is sub RM 1500 while higher tiered AIB 3060Ti are in the 17XX-1900

user posted image

Manli is also another value for money budget AIB as their prices are a lil above OCPC, the RTX 3060Ti is <1600 and their 3070 is same priced as higher tiered 3060Tis

In fact I got one of them and you can read my review here https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/5341702

B660M is a midrange mobo so expect to pay upwards RM 600+ for a decent one that can handle i5 K-sku & i7. There are cheaper ones but those are underspec with poor VRMs that will struggle with high temps. Since that promo deal you found didnt mention which specific board, expect it to be those cheap ones. These cant handle anything more than a lower range i5 and they will throw out a lot of heat into ur system.

Lastly, if purely gaming, the extra Ecores wont matter.

This post has been edited by babylon52281: Jan 15 2023, 03:15 AM
babylon52281
post Jan 15 2023, 03:13 AM

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QUOTE(darksider @ Jan 15 2023, 12:25 AM)
are these temperature ok for i7-13700k (5.487MHz pcore, 4290mhz ecore)  when gaming at ultra 1440p cyberpunk? peaked at 84c, averaged 6x-7xc with arctic 420mm aio

was wondering if i need to reapply thermal paste.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


also did stress test with cpuz reaching 100c. should i reapply thermal paste?

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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You prolly need to dial back the PL2 power limit as ur 13700K is boosting past its max turbo frequency @5.4 GHZ. This could be why ur seeing 100C temps which is quite high for a 420mm AIO. Try setting to default max PL2 @253W.
babylon52281
post Jan 15 2023, 04:25 PM

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QUOTE(eddie2020 @ Jan 15 2023, 03:04 PM)
i have the same doubt, i think only for full pc - eg dell hp etc can claim tax but not those customise part like gpu / mobo etc?
not sure if custom rig considered pc or not.
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There is a LYN tered for such matters with more experts than me. Can refer here https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3621012

QUOTE(eddie2020 @ Jan 15 2023, 03:04 PM)
thanks for the review sharing and the brand. Will try to find Manli or OCPC. Did you read about Galax i think another competitor with budget price.
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Galax standard cards are of same level as B tiers AIB except that Galax has overkill halo HOF GPU lineup. Unless ur getting this, treat them the same as Palit, PNY, Gainward, Zotac, some which are belong to the same mother company.

QUOTE(eddie2020 @ Jan 15 2023, 03:04 PM)
My i5 13400F i guess its locked and i wont be doing any overclock. My usage will be mix between works maybe 50% of excel/pdf/media steam / video edit etc. Half of it will be gaming such as warzone, gta online , genshin etc. I think during work the Ecore will kicks in?
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13400F is locked, yes, but with a decent B6600/B760 mobo & cooler you can indefinitely boost to 4.60GHZ @PL2 = 148W. Just 300MHZ below 12600K at full turbo.
babylon52281
post Jan 15 2023, 05:02 PM

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QUOTE(BaDKiDz @ Jan 15 2023, 04:00 PM)
I mean my overall build, such as mobo with pcie 5, ddr 5 ready,
DDR5 currently high clock is expensive thus i put 5200hz compared to 3600 its 1600mhz increase. (RM100 different if I compared DDR4)
7200 its 2000mhz increase but the price is not worth atm as you mention its early life of DDR5.
When DDR5 price getting economically cheap then I can just swap out and put a higher speed as my intended mobo shall have 4 slots.
I guess with similar requirement in DDR4 build probably different below RM400 ish with 1 generation different? Meaning if I build I5 12th gen and DDR4 with all the requirement full build roughly hit around 4.5k while 13th gen ddr5 build probably near 5k?

I5 13400F  + ASROCK B760M PG Sonic WiFi DDR5....RM 1819
ASROCK RX 6700 XT............................................ RM  1899
Kingston DDR5 5200 16gb 8x2 ..............................RM 385
Kingston SSD 960GB.............................................RM  290
Case ..................................................................RM 200-250 Any recommendation for Micro ATX?/mini tower? Cooler Master MB311? Prioritize air flow and filter so i can clean it easily
PSU ..........................................................................??? Any recommendation and how many power i need? 750W?

Should i need any cooling? I probably wont do any OC, and gaming maybe AAA game during weekend for long hour.

Base on review 3070 should able handle 4K without much issue in high setting, in ultra it seems just nice but future might have problem.
650W should be enough, depending your processor and total system build. 750W will be more than enough.
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As long as ur aware you will have to bin those 5200 RAMs when comes time to upgrade it unless you want its dogshit speed to cripple those newer & faster RAMs. And FYI don't look at the speed difference between DDR4 and DDR5 are linearly comparable. DDR5 also has much higher latencies which is why in real world performance DDR5 5200 is merely 5-8 FPS faster than DDR4 3200 despite the "2000MHZ speed difference". Also dont forget DDR5 runs on Gear 2 mode for AL/RL systems unlike DDR4 which can take Gear 1 up to 3800 (with good CPU silicon & HSF cooling).

For DDR5 to get a clear performance advantage over fast DDR4 RAMs you will have to target 6400 & above. At those speeds, ur future RAM upgrades could still make use of those existing RAMs (without crippling it too badly as 5200 will) so you can populate all 4 slots. Those 5200 will be wasted money if you have to throw them out later on.

Which is why I don't recommend going for DDR5 if getting such slow speeds. Have in mind how much you want to budget for decent RAMs ie RM 500. If you can wait for it, throughout this year DRAM prices will further tumble down as demand recedes and global recession incoming, wait for it then try get faster DDR5 RAMs as I mentioned.

If DDR5 platform is that important for you, I'd reckon to get AMD AM5 system (7600 nonX + B650), which is natively optimised to run on DDR5 and such it will suffer less penalties than AL/RL when used with slower DDR5 RAMs.

For PSU capacity, you can use online calculator https://www.fsplifestyle.com/landing/calculator.html
or else can ask neighbour PSU kakis https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2620035

This post has been edited by babylon52281: Jan 15 2023, 05:08 PM
babylon52281
post Jan 16 2023, 12:08 AM

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QUOTE(eddie2020 @ Jan 15 2023, 05:19 PM)
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...#entry100760008 it seems this guy manage to talk to ldhn officer that he had a full custom build in same year receipt.
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Read carefully la. He bought separate parts that combined to a full PC and within the same year, not just only the GPU that you asked about.

QUOTE(eddie2020 @ Jan 15 2023, 05:19 PM)
Does this good? How do we determine its tier.. Sapphire most of it i found is nitro version, pulse has lesser.
https://shopee.com.my/(AONE-PLUS-SS2)-SAPPH...548.14082703979
Review i found
https://www.gpu-monkey.com/en/gpu-sapphire_...deon_rx_6750_xt
So probably i dont really need a cooler for it right?
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Im not too familiar with AMD side but Sapphire & Power Color are AMD exclusive AIB (and as OEM MBA too) so I guess can consider them as B Tier level since there got Tier A Asus, MSI, other more known brands, that also makes AMD GPUs.

QUOTE(eddie2020 @ Jan 15 2023, 05:19 PM)
I seen your build, do you get all the part in same shop or you buy separately all from Shopee / Lazada?
I thinking to ask those seller to give me a full quote for full item and if they provide assembly FOC will be added point..
If not then i might need spend few hour to assembly it.
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I can't speak for others but I personally feel that since buying all from same shop will get you only 1 invoice to show to LHDN then it will be much easier to explain. Not all will have the patience to listen when you bring them a stack of invoices and they will take the lazy way out and void ur claim. Also if you want the seller to assemble it then no choice but to get from a single shop, as only a few might take in ur parts and assemble (for a fee of course) but some won't even bother.

This post has been edited by babylon52281: Jan 16 2023, 12:09 AM
babylon52281
post Jan 24 2023, 12:26 AM

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QUOTE(chocobo7779 @ Jan 21 2023, 12:02 PM)
I know, but that doesn't mean you need to buy a board like this for gaming sweat.gif
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That MSI B660M mobo is adequate if seller is willing to flash bios to support RPL CPU otherwise going with B760M is a drop in compatible. Pay more for less headache?
babylon52281
post Jan 24 2023, 12:35 AM

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QUOTE(chocobo7779 @ Jan 21 2023, 12:03 PM)
Can't do much about it unless distributors stop messing up GPU prices here, GPU prices historically has been vastly inflated here (with some exceptions) :/
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Inflated yes but Nvidias have been tiered rather sensibly the same here as with overseas (except certain halo AIB GPUs), but AMD local distro & brand are smoking serious stuff when a 6700/50XT is still the same price as RTX3070 while everywhere else it has dropped like a rock.

Steam GPU survey are absolutely killing Radeons and market survey showed AMD only has 10% of GPU sales, yet AMD Msia still thinks their GPU are hot shit.
babylon52281
post Jan 24 2023, 12:46 AM

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QUOTE(chocobo7779 @ Jan 21 2023, 04:12 PM)
Hardware Unboxed suggests otherwise:

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


...and that is with a bottom of the barrel 4800CL40 sticks icon_idea.gif

That being said, unless you have extra to spend on DDR5 capable boards and sticks it might be better to stay on DDR4 for now icon_idea.gif
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That is in the context of vs DDR4 memory which isn't so great at all if comparing with cheaper fast 3600-4000MHZ DDR4 https://youtu.be/UtMl8rWmTV4?t=204

But its even worse when comparison in DDR5 platform since if your going for that "futureproofing" later on when you want to upgrade to a 7000-8000MHZ kit you find that you'll have to chuck those sloow 5200 or it will badly cripple your newer superfast RAMs. OF course you could go for an additional 5200 kit but then your "backwardproofing" and its not actually faster than DDR4 then.

This post has been edited by babylon52281: Jan 24 2023, 12:46 AM
babylon52281
post Jan 24 2023, 01:00 AM

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QUOTE(-kytz- @ Jan 22 2023, 09:53 PM)
Budget let's say around RM5k +-
Usage: Nothing intensive for now but might be more in the future. Currently the usual browsing, light gaming but may play AAA titles in the future like Harry Potter, occasional picture editing, watching youtube, etc. I'm currently using a 1080p monitor but will very likely upgrade to a 1440p or 4k monitor in the future.

Parts to purchase: CPU, motherboard, SSD, Ram, Windows 11.
Parts to reuse: GTX1060 3GB, Corsair HX750 PSU, Fractal Define R6 casing

Any comments on the build below? Prices from shopee preferred/mall. Do let me know if you can find cheaper prices.

CPU: Ryzen 7 7700X - RM1887
Motherboard: ASUS TUF GAMING X670E-PLUS - RM1698
SSD: Kingston KC3000 2TB SSD PCEI 4.0 speed - RM825
RAM: Kingston Fury RGB 16GBX2 - RM719
Windows 11 - RM479

Total: RM5,608

Some comments:
CPU: I read that RAW picture editing may benefit from higher clock speed.
Motherboard: I would prefer to have PCIE 5.0 express slot and M2 SSD 5.0 speed for future proofing. I plan to use the PC for 8-10 years. I also read about USB 4.0 support which can be found in ASUS' motherboard. I think this may be useful for charging the phone or data transfer?

There is a cheaper Asus B650E-F Gaming WIFI, around RM200 cheaper than the X670E but I lose USB4.0 support. Is this something I could look into as I think the RGB is aesthetically nice haha.

Years down the road, I may learn how to OC if I find the PC getting slow.

Questions:
1) Which platform changes socket less frequently? I would hate it that if I want to get a better CPU, I have to get a new motherboard as well due to the change in socket.
2) How good are the built in wifi for motherboard these days? Or a PCIE Wifi is still recommended? I'm looking at the ASUS AX58BT
3) Would it be cheaper to purchase a Windows 10 and get a free upgrade (if any) to W11 instead of buying W11?
4) USB 4.0 useful to have?
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RM 5.6k and not even include a GPU? Thats a lot of money for a very poor build. A nonX R7 will perform nearly the same even at OCing, and that Asus mobo is just crazy prices. Get a B650 instead with PCIE 5.0 at SSD interface if you think you will need that speed.
babylon52281
post Jan 25 2023, 09:41 AM

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QUOTE(myway1985 @ Jan 24 2023, 07:32 PM)
AMD tbh i lazy quote.. many software bug exist at bios level.. AMD new architecture problem u know i know.. haha bangwall.gif
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Tbh actually I dont know AMD much. I have had half a dozen computer systems and none were AMD, just so happens everytime I got a new system Intel was the game changer and brought new innovations then so I didnt have the "luxury" of living with debugging AMDs. Haha. (skipped the 4th - 11th no innovation era)
babylon52281
post Jan 25 2023, 04:23 PM

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QUOTE(myway1985 @ Jan 25 2023, 03:34 PM)
ryzen 7000... every time u change any component on the mobo.. the 1st boot take ages... pattern macam old xeon era
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I read that change of memory will take quite some time to relearn memory config, but GPU change also does that?
babylon52281
post Jan 27 2023, 12:14 PM

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QUOTE(-kytz- @ Jan 26 2023, 12:21 AM)
Thanks.

My idea to get a good motherboard is to "future proof" for 8-10 years as I have a bad experience with my current setup. My current mobo doesn't even have a M2 slot and it only has 2 ram slots lol. So I want to get a good mobo so that it is quite upgradeable in future. My current setup is an 11 year old PC.... Intel i5-3450 and a Giga B75M D3V mobo, Samsung 840 Pro 120GB SATA SSD. GPU, PSU and RAM I have upgraded over the years..

The ASUS TUF x670E costs RM1.7k and let's say getting a cheaper B650 board will save me a couple of hundreds which isn't even worth it.

My thinking is get the best mobo and CPU I can afford as it is not easily upgradeable plus I'm just a casual user haha.
Thanks.

So a 7700 with PBO will equal a 7700X in terms of performance?

Does AMD like change socket every 5 years or so? Which means if I want to get a newer CPU 6 years later, it would not be compatible with my AM5 board..

What are your thoughts on the i7-13700K vs 7700 vs 7700K performance 8-10 years down the road? the Intel chip's TDP at max load is like 2x the AMD but I don't benchmark at all, I'm not sure if gaming or RAW picture editing stresses it 100%?
I picked an Asus mobo as it has USB4.0 compatibility which I may appreciate in the future haha.

The X670E board @RM1.7k is only like RM700 more expensive than a B650 board which IMHO is totally worth it as I am planning to use it 8-10 years down the road..
3. If not windows, then get linux??
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You can't futureproof anything beyond what the manufacturer has officially committed and even then no one can predicts the future as to how sincere they will last the mile (1st gen Ryzen mobos were not initially forward compatible to 5000 series, some still arent).

The only way to futureproof something is to get something ahead of the curve so if games are recommending 6Pcores now, get an 8Pcore CPU today since in the next few years 8cores will be the then recommended spec.

Mobo is the worst to futureproof anything, ie when PCIE6 comes in a few years time does it mean ur PCIE5 mobo is obsolete? When USB5 comes out does it obsoleted ur USB4? When DDR5 10k becomes affordable, will ur DDR5 5200 becomes obsolete?

And that relates if you want to go DDR5 route, get something ahead ie for AM5 the sweet spot is 6000-6400, which won't badly hamper ur next RAM upgrade if you go for faster RAMs.
babylon52281
post Jan 27 2023, 12:21 PM

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QUOTE(TristanX @ Jan 26 2023, 01:26 AM)
Spec looks fine.

Get 3080. I refuse to spoonfeed price hike for both teams. Yes, it is the about the same price/performance but we were getting more price/performance for years.
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Despite the bad pricing, 4070TI has the same perf as 3090 so it will beat that 3080, even a 3080TI. All that at a cheaper price, lower power use, less heat output
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shHSg_Ps6lo
babylon52281
post Jan 27 2023, 12:34 PM

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QUOTE(chocobo7779 @ Jan 26 2023, 11:22 AM)
IINM newer batches should have the new BIOS so it should support 13th gen just fine hmm.gif
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If bought online individually there is a risk it might be from old stocks, and not all sellers will willing to flash the bios for you

QUOTE(chocobo7779 @ Jan 26 2023, 11:26 AM)
For some reason AMD has been treating the local market like second class citizens sweat.gif
Steam GPU survey are sort of misleading as it did factor mobile GPUs for gaming laptops, but AMD's presence in that market is practically non-existent at best (I think I've only seen one laptop with a discrete AMD GPU, and for some reason their availability is very spotty and is near vaporware) sweat.gif
But yeah, agreed icon_idea.gif
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2nd class citizen but pricing like atas class? More like they don't care if their Radeons doesnt sell. They don't give an arse to be competitive here or just gave up and let Nvidia roll over them.
Steam isn't fully comprehensive but its what a lot (in the millions) of gamers used worldwide so its objectively suffice and if you ignore the laptop entries you will still find Nvidia topping the ranks kawkaw.
Radeons, I see, are for those who are fans, hate Nvidia and want alternatives, enthusiasts who could afford to change between and want to try something new.

QUOTE(chocobo7779 @ Jan 26 2023, 11:29 AM)
Those GPU prices are sort of terrible, especially you can get something far better for the money (the 3070Ti for instance):

https://www.lazada.com.my/products/sapphire....d68f7e29HxQEjC
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Guy quotes from his shop. Give him a break as he might pow specialty service as well.
babylon52281
post Jan 27 2023, 12:38 PM

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QUOTE(myway1985 @ Jan 26 2023, 01:01 PM)
Watch only lo . I heard price adjustment coming after 4060ti .. price war as in stock overload
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The only stock overloaded are RTX 3000 series and RX6000 series, the now RTX 4000 and RX7000 cards are simply priced too high and expect the 4060/Ti will be so as well.
babylon52281
post Jan 29 2023, 11:35 PM

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QUOTE(oRoXoRo @ Jan 29 2023, 02:46 PM)
Appreciate if sifu can comment on this build, mainly for gaming like dota , cs go 1080 p gaming
amd ryzen 5 5600 - 680
asus prime a520m-k - 325
PNY XLR8 gaming epic-x rgb 16gb ddr4 3200MHz (8gbx2) - 255
PNY RTX 3050 8GB - 1249
PNY CS1031 500 GB M.2 NVME 2280  - 179
PSU 1st Player Black Sir 500 (500watt/80 bronze/ Non Modular) - 150
Casing - 1st player T3 Black - 185
=======================================================================
Total 3033
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That's a ripoff pricing for GPU when there are better and/or cheaper options:

A far better RTX 3060 for Rm50 more
https://shopee.com.my/-OCPC-GeForce-RTX-306...95-a03cee3ca274

or If you swing AMD
https://shopee.com.my/-SAPPHIRE-PULSE-AMD-R...6b-305b103ff452

Or else do you have some kind of preference for PNY stuff?

Oh and tho I'm not a PSU expert, I think that is also something to change.

Deepcool DA500 isn't all that great but its just under Rm20 more than that 1st Player and it has a decent review
https://shopee.com.my/-DEEPCOOL-DA500-DA600...92-f47b9ab9fb12
https://www.eteknix.com/deep-cool-da500-aur...upply-review/9/
babylon52281
post Feb 1 2023, 11:01 AM

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QUOTE(seanwms @ Jan 31 2023, 02:14 PM)
Thanks for the prompt reply, possible to squeeze the price around 9k with similar specs? is the latest ryzen 7 7800 processor compare to i7-13? kindly advise thanks
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Hardware post Covid is overpriced bro. Intel 13th gen CPU & 700 series mobo, Ryzen 7000 series & mobo, DDR5, RTX 4000 series, Radeon 7000 series, all gone up in pricing vs previous same tier gen. Coupled with MYR bad exchange rates. Just have to accept if you want high end stuff gotta pay high end prices.

You can save a bit more going for last gen; 12th gen ADL, B660 mobo, DDR4, RTX3000 GPU, but they are depleting soon and will be taken out of market.
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