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 AMD Ryzen, AM4 / AM5 Platform

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nrw
post Sep 26 2019, 04:45 PM

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QUOTE(chrischiang @ Sep 26 2019, 02:43 PM)
Need some help here..

3700x
x470 gaming pro carbon @ 7B78v2B1
Trident Z Neo 16Gb kit 3600Mhz C18
windows 10 1809

When i enabled XMP profile or manually set to 3600Mhz in bios, i always get reboot on windows welcome screen, out of 10 times i could enter windows 1-2 times but will still get reboot after maybe 1 minute.

My pc boot normally if i set it to 3200Mhz or 3466Mhz. Currently i let it run at 3466Mhz.

Does anyone have any idea why this is happening?
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I assume correct slots used.

I had the same board and actually it was doing very well with micron-e n samsung b-dies on the same bios. I assume there's some compatibility issues with your ram and this specific bios version.

unless you wanna rule out its due to voltages, fckl, ... and set some manual values to do some testing,...
just run in on 3466 until the abba bios is out which should be out quite soon and give it another try then.

maybe an earlier bios version will serve you better results, as well.
nrw
post Sep 27 2019, 08:47 AM

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QUOTE(Bonchi @ Sep 26 2019, 05:50 PM)
That's a sign that the OC is not stable.
XMP is just a profile. it is not guaranteed to work... perhaps bump some voltage to force it to be stable.
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if system crashes at welcome screen due to ram that's not easily fixed by adding a little voltage, this will delay things at best.

it could be one or a combination of many factors causing it. e.g. soc (vsoc, vddg) could be the culprit. trfc even though that might show sooner when booting. maybe tcke could need some adjustment, ... primaries,...

since its a rather new ram kit which is even amd optimized (correct me if I am wrong; despite that being more of marketing with zen2) chances are it will just run on basic xmp settings once msi have done their job.

This post has been edited by nrw: Sep 27 2019, 08:57 AM
nrw
post Sep 27 2019, 09:57 AM

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QUOTE(Bonchi @ Sep 27 2019, 09:36 AM)
Pretty sure it can. Just need to run memtest to make sure it's stable. Afterall just like XMP, this is called overclocking. So once memtest has no issues, he can be quite assured it wont crash in windows anymore.

Altho it is not guaranteed so let's say even at 1.5V and it still fails memtest then it's time to loosen some timings or give up altogether. But his ram is xmp 3600 so the cherry picked chips has been tested to work at such speeds just not stable with ryzen (old stock perhaps) so i believe there is a very high chance it will work by bumping up the voltage by 0.01 to 0.03v.

edit: just saw that it's a relatively new kit. But gotta take the "ryzen ready" sticker with a slightly less optimistic approach because afterall, XMP is still an overclock and it's never bound to be 100% stable. Not to mention 3600mhz rams are technically overclocking the ryzen's IF as well so perhaps he need to manually adjust those ratios instead of leaving it at auto haha.
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users simply relying on xmp don't usually do much stability testing n fiddling, they expect things to work out of the box tongue.gif
n not every die (and for c18 3600 its pretty much hynix c) does scale as well with voltage. this one for example biggrin.gif

if something it 'stable' on 3466 but crashes on system boot at 3600 chances are more tweaking is required due to wrongly set values, poor work on msi's side, ....
do note that he is on a beta bios based on abb.

edit: IF is why I mentioned vddg wink.gif

This post has been edited by nrw: Sep 27 2019, 10:01 AM
nrw
post Sep 27 2019, 12:27 PM

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QUOTE(Tr1Angel @ Sep 27 2019, 12:17 PM)
I saw Dotatech selling for 7xx. Wondering worth it or not.

Planning to upgrade from 1700x &  16gb 2666 mhz to Ryzen 3600 + this 3200 mhz cl14 or 3200mhz cl16 (cheaper).

Or should I just whack in 3700x only , I knew for gaming Ryzen 3600 more than enough d but itchy and it's future proof.
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ur gaming at fhd?
nrw
post Sep 27 2019, 01:49 PM

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QUOTE(Tr1Angel @ Sep 27 2019, 12:32 PM)
Yeap bro! Any suggestion?  smile.gif I don't play the ram timing tweaking though , bit complicated for me. Currently the 1700x bottlenecking my 5700 XT
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hrm if ur not willing to oc the ram manually you can just go with 3200 c16 if that's much cheaper.
then the 3200c14 are not worth paying 700 for.

for 1080p gaming you can get quite a boost (3200c14 vs 3800c16 will give you ~+10% fps )

But if you just wanna load a profile n be happy get a reasonable priced 3200c16 as those seem to start getting sold for ~450.
nrw
post Oct 1 2019, 04:43 PM

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QUOTE(chocobo7779 @ Oct 1 2019, 03:55 PM)
Well that's just early adopters tax sweat.gif
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maybe you just try if you bought recently?
especially zotac(nvidia) proved to be accommodating last time when I was in a similar position.
nrw
post Oct 1 2019, 07:44 PM

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Despite those games not being of any interest to me I just tried if they would still entertain early adopters.

But AMD (Malaysia) is strictly following the dates.

Funny to see nVidia was so accommodating last year with BF5 and pretty much gave out instructions to not neglect those early adopters that asked nicely.

AMD pretty much launched a beta product (the 5700's are still having beta drivers biggrin.gif) and shows their respect like that.

Very disappointing actually.
nrw
post Oct 4 2019, 04:09 PM

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QUOTE(ksking @ Oct 4 2019, 02:38 PM)
Ryzen 5 3600 with SMT off still faster than Ryzen 5 2600 overall? Anyone?
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QUOTE(ah_khoo @ Oct 4 2019, 02:44 PM)
single threaded mebe, but multi threaded might not kot?  smile.gif
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depends... faster with?
there are quite some scenarios I could imagine it being faster with smt disabled

edit: to clarify. any content creation or especially gaming workload which consistently loads critical workloads on virtual threads could be better off with smt disabled.

so get someone with a 3600 to try out for your usage case (and buy the 3500(x) later on)

This post has been edited by nrw: Oct 4 2019, 04:15 PM
nrw
post Nov 6 2019, 07:23 PM

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QUOTE(matni01 @ Nov 5 2019, 03:02 PM)
ok, one morequestion.
which is best ram brands and whyyy?
*want to use long term, thats why ask2 many biggrin.gif

hyperx? gskill tridentz? xpg? team group? corsair? or any other?
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Almost all aforementioned manufacturers use different dies anyways, mostly even for the same part#.
So there's no Manufacturer that is > others for all kits they are selling.

For dies, best and most expensive kits still are those with Samsung B-Dies, then it's Micron E-Dies which are not directly available in Malaysia. The next best thing would be Hynix C-Dies.

If you're gaming and your running into CPU limits in FHD get a better kit if you can (and your budget allows for it). You can gain some performance from nice frequency and timings.

If your GPU is limiting just get a solid 3000/3200 c16 (maybe 3600 if its similarly/nicely priced) kit as differences are not as significant.

This post has been edited by nrw: Nov 6 2019, 08:51 PM
nrw
post Nov 7 2019, 03:46 PM

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QUOTE(Songchien @ Nov 7 2019, 12:38 PM)
Ryzen 1600X.

I think there's another rumour that says ryzen 4000 series will come to laptop early 2020. For desktop, I think it's H2
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yup, should be ryzen mobile based on zen2 first.
milan(desktop) should be tapeout q2 so pretty much same stuff than this year.. release early q3

This post has been edited by nrw: Nov 7 2019, 03:47 PM
nrw
post Nov 7 2019, 10:14 PM

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3950x on 25th, phew tongue.gif
let's see what reviews on 14th are indicating biggrin.gif
and lets hope those up for open sale will have 2 equally awesome chips as those cherry picked review samples laugh.gif

This post has been edited by nrw: Nov 8 2019, 11:40 PM
nrw
post Nov 8 2019, 01:52 PM

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QUOTE(Spininmeow @ Nov 8 2019, 10:35 AM)
Why avoid Corsair LPX tho? Am I missing from anything

I just brought a pair of LPX 8gb 3200 for my upcoming upgrade
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no free review samples for him brows.gif

just kidding.

as long as the frequency and timings are fine (and the kit is listed on your mb's qvl) I personally would not see a reason not to buy that series (if value is best) especially with corsairs 'new' distributor things seem to go a bit smoother for warranty issues.

This post has been edited by nrw: Nov 8 2019, 01:53 PM
nrw
post Nov 11 2019, 07:41 PM

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QUOTE(chocobo7779 @ Nov 11 2019, 07:30 PM)
Looks like ASRock is going to update their B450 boards with the latest 1.0.0.4B AGESA:

https://shop.jzelectronic.de/news.php?id=1573458000&sw=

But it's in beta sweat.gif
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I'll be so free to link the overview where you probably got the distributor's link from so others can check easily.

BIOS Overview AM4
nrw
post Nov 13 2019, 03:35 PM

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QUOTE(chugeliang @ Nov 13 2019, 01:06 PM)
How to update bios on my x570 aorus elite motherboard ?
Current bios version F3. Do i update the bios step by step like F3>F4>F5b>F10c or just F3>F10c ?
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unless stated/requested otherwise in the changenote, ... you can just flash the latest.

QUOTE(malakus @ Nov 13 2019, 02:21 PM)
For Ryzen 3600 running with stock cooler, what is the normal temperature during gaming?

I am getting around 70 degree average and sometime max 80 degree. Is that normal or do I need to change the cooler
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not knowing cpu load, ambient temp, and casing set up,... I'd say that's fine if you don't mind the noise.

This post has been edited by nrw: Nov 13 2019, 03:43 PM
nrw
post Nov 13 2019, 04:10 PM

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QUOTE(malakus @ Nov 13 2019, 04:01 PM)
I see. I am at work now I will check those later. Dont remember the load, usually after a while gaming, ambient temp just room temp without aircond around 28-30. Set up, I feel enough room for air.

It's not that noisy just the side panel feel hot to touch.
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If you don't bother the noise or not perceive it as noisy... nothing to worry about if it maxes out at 80.
nrw
post Nov 16 2019, 11:29 AM

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QUOTE(goldfries @ Nov 16 2019, 11:25 AM)
[....]

The supposed IDEAL speed for AMD Ryzen is 3800MHz with 1:1 ratio to the Infinity Fabric that runs at 1900MHz.

[...]
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Not each and every Zen2 IO's IMC will be able to run a stable 1900 IF though.
But yes, if it does run stable at 1900 that's obviously the sweet spot with nice timings.
nrw
post Nov 16 2019, 11:35 AM

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e.g. for 1080p the difference can be >10% fps by going from 3200c14 to 3800c14

This post has been edited by nrw: Nov 16 2019, 11:36 AM
nrw
post Nov 16 2019, 12:04 PM

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QUOTE(goldfries @ Nov 16 2019, 11:51 AM)
Key word "can be" - depends on game, settings, and graphics card.

Also % can be misleading.

I've done my tests on 2400Mhz CL16 vs 3733 CL15 already as well, and the results are pretty interesting.

Some titles little to no improvements, some even A LOT more than 10%.

I'll publish my findings soon.
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It depends on 90% if your CPU is the limiting variable. Which is why I mentioned FHD.

Since you point out 2400C16 let me pick that up smile.gif

CSGO 1080p:

2400C16 (IF 1200): 290 fps, (99th percentile 83 fps)
3800C14 (IF 1900): 337 fps, (99th percentile 103 fps)

Tested on 3600 & 1070ti

This post has been edited by nrw: Nov 16 2019, 12:06 PM
nrw
post Nov 16 2019, 12:17 PM

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QUOTE(goldfries @ Nov 16 2019, 12:10 PM)
Yup, that's why depends on game title.
My tests is Ryzen 7 3700X on RX 5700.

2400 : 349 fps
3733 : 375 fps

Both 1% low at around 75fps.
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thumbsup.gif
The former seems plausible, however C15 for 3733 seems odd, did you disable gear down for that?
Your sure about your lows? Doesn't really translate to the results I posted.
nrw
post Nov 16 2019, 01:10 PM

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QUOTE(goldfries @ Nov 16 2019, 12:25 PM)
Mine is 3733 CL16 actually. Why odd la? That's the limit of the RAM kit I have at that time.

Not using GDM.
I'm using CS:GO FPS Benchmark Workshop and MSI Afterburner to log. smile.gif It's base on that, fresh installed.

But really doesn't matter la, we shouldn't be insisting which one is right.

While 1% lows are similar, the MAX FPS on the other hand is very different where the better memory timing configuration got 529 fps when the stock RAM setting got 495 fps.
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Oh, you've mistaken me, I'm not insisting. Merely wondering why 1% lows are not effected in your findings.

3733 I asked cuz you said C15 earlier. That would have been adjusted to c16 automatically unless you turned off gdm.

Have you been testing IF oc for lower freq.? This will show some improvement as well.
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