Shell HX8 w/wo X MB229.5 is a high SaPS oil.

European OEMs like VW/Audi do recommend a high SaPS VW 50200 oil for their Direct Injection engines. However, I am not certain whether the same applies to MB.

May be someone knowledgeable on this can help throw some light on MB practice.

I wouldn't be surprised if MB recommends high SaPS oil in their Direct Injection engines, just my speculation.

On Direct Injection engines and SaPS content I do buy the idea that a Mid or Low SaPS oil is preferred to a high SaPS in a DI, though VW/Audi seems to deviate from this at times.....

In your general context, if the fully synthetic oci is say 14,000 kms and less I would likely pick a Petronas C3 to directly benefit (hopefully) from its 'friendlier' relations with DI engines.

If one is adopting say, 16000 kms or more oci I would likely pick any MB 229.5 high SaPS over a Petronas C3 for its assured performance in extended change interval.

So, at the end of the day... there is no right or wrong oil really especially if (typical Asian) car OEM specifies SN/SM only.

Thrust, I still owe you the MB 229.5 thing yeah..

Edit: Approved Mid/Low SaPS oils for MB engines are MB229.51, 229.52 and 226.51 approved.

This post has been edited by zeng: Sep 6 2021, 11:22 AM

Previously was having issue with the AT pressure switch back in May 2020 that time mileage for the oil just only 18k KM, then foreman recommend me change the pressure switch as well replace the old oil and ATF Filter.




This post has been edited by 90Boyz: Sep 6 2021, 12:03 PM

Here's continuation of total 10w-40 semi syn oil at about 9.5k km. 48hr blotter.
180k km proton inspira.

Will arrange to change oil in 2 weeks time.

Ooops, sorry for being late in responding as I'm just back from outstation.

There is absence of 'structures' in this 9500 km blotter which means good news.

Centre zone is not darkened or opaque but transparent, meaning presence of very slight amount of heavy or big sized contaminants.

No sign of emerging darkened aureole zone/ perimeter ring meaning there is no sign of commencement of agglomeration of dirts/soots etc.

Diffusion zone is of very slight gray and transparent indicating very low level of light-weight contaminants.

No darkened jagged external edge which I used to interpret as absence of water mositure.

But I read lately that it could also indicate very mild or minimal level of oil oxidation of this 10W40 Total. To check up further whether internal combustion engine oxidation 'products' are generally super-light weight for it to be 'pushed' away further from the Centre deposit zone to support the above new found argument.

There is absence of translucent halo at the outermost zone indicating absence of fuel dilution phenomenon in this used oil.

Overall, i believe this 9500 km used Total 10W40 oil should be good for several thousands more km of usage.
2 more weeks is definitely not an issue.

This 180k kms Inspira engine seems to be well taken care of, imho.

Edit: 2000 kms ago this Total 10W40 oil at 7500 km had an emergent darkened aureole zone/ perimeter ring which did not deteriorate but seems to improve with further use .............. and that sounds good.

This post has been edited by zeng: Sep 17 2021, 08:17 PM

Hi Zeng bro,

2016 Estima 2AZFE 53700km
Oil brand unknown, recond dealer changed it. Most likely mineral oil as the sticker show change after 5k.
Oil mileage 5200km
I had added about 20ml of Toyota engine flush at 52500km.
After that my per trip fuel economy range 11+km/L to 15km/L. Before was at 11+ KM/L to 12+km/L. Oil colour is slightly darker now.

I am planning to change it to Toyota synthetic formulation 5w30 soon. And 60k km change to full synthetic. I have recond warranty so will need to follow the 10k KM OCI.

Thanks for your input.

Hi Bro,

Yes, the blotter is a bit on the darker side for a 5200 km usage and probably the 'main' culprit is the use of 20mL of Toyota engine flush as alluded by you which may have 'forcibly' remove some varnish/contaminants previously 'stucked' on the oil control rings of this Odo 53700 km Estima.

Is the slightly darker shade caused by the use of mineral oil as speculated by you?

After looking through Post #1 for blotters around 4000-7000 km against that of yours, I beg to differ with you for suggesting mineral oil as being in use. I wouldn't be surprised really if the recond dealer has given this car a semi-synthetic or fully synthetic PCMO petrol engine oil as there is absence of darkened jagged zig-zag external edge on the outermost zone of your 5200 km blotter , indicating there is absence of water mositure and/or very slight sign of oil oxidation which is good news.

The Centre zone (of around 8 mm diameter on real physical sample in hand) is slightly darker in colour but remains transparent indicating the presence of larger size contaminants and/or higher density metal wear or contaminants, which I would attribute it to the use of engine flush.

Darkened aureole zone/perimeter ring is absent, indicating absence of agglomeration of contaminants/dirt, never mind with the use of Engine flush in this 5200 km blotter.

Diffusion zone is transparent although it is also slightly darker for a typical 5000 ish km blotter indicating a certain level of medium/light density contaminants, which again I speculate to be caused by the Engine flush.

There is vaguely a very slight sign of translucent halo at the outermost zone indicating a very preliminary stage of fuel dilution.

The lowly usage of 5 month driving with 5200 km travelled may have caused this, or you may have been doing short tripping with this car thus far. Of course one may speculate it is fuel system tuning for which I do not think so.

Overall, I would speculate this used oil (whether or not mineral or full/semi syn) at 5200 km is fit for continuing service.

For how long ? I don't see another 2000-3000 km usage is a problem, never mind the recond car dealer indicated expiry of 5000 km oci .

This post has been edited by zeng: Sep 23 2021, 11:52 AM

Hi Zeng bro, thanks for the detailed analysis.

The darker oil colour only develop after about 500km of 20ML engine flush. The new oil colour is relatively light. From the refill cap the inside of engine is pretty clean before I added engine flush.

The slight halo could be contributed by Chevron injector cleaner around 52800km. Normal drive is 11km one way and some days can add up to total 60km/day. tail pipe do get noticeable amount of carbon. So could be burning rich at times but not too bad to get into the oil. Also results in some oil dilution. Will check my spark plugs when I have time. Japan spec is replace at 200k km for spark plugs and 15k km for engine oil.

Too bad I didn't learn of your thread when I had my Camry hybrid. Would be nice to compare the blotter. Generally at 10k KM oil colour is lighter colour then my 5200km one.

Will keep using the current oil and test at 55k Km. The small amount of engine flush should be safe.


This post has been edited by tchinhe: Sep 23 2021, 04:18 PM

Speaking of Hybrid, here is a 3262 km Toyota 0W20 blotter from a Gen 3 Toyota Prius at Odo 180k km, courtesy of @abubin .

I haven't really 'read' much on UOA's of hybrids like Toyota's, but I would speculate a hybrid engine oci's could easily be further extended by a factor of say, 1.3-1.8 times that of non-hybrid siblings, for quite similar wear particles count in ppm per 10k km or miles.

Basically Factory recommended oci's of Asian engines are very conservative with plenty of margin, imho.

Edit:
Attached below is a low'ish 5136 km UOA of Idemitsu Zepro Advanced Moly 0W20 in a 2011 Toyota Prius Hybrid 2ZR-FXE 1.8L Odo 304k kms .
Look at its impressive low ppm count of wear metals with a residual TBN of 6.2!


This post has been edited by zeng: Sep 25 2021, 11:05 AM

Based on the 30% fuel economy for Toyota hybrid, my estimate will be 30% more mileage for engine oil. So agree 1.3-1.8 times is achievable.

Bro Zeng,
Here is another one at 54,500km
Castrol 20w-50
2016 estima
Oil mileage 6000km
70HR

I will change it to 5W30 to test.

Walaooo.... super high Moly and Boron counts. This oil is really geared to fuel economy. But dont think this EO is available officialy in Msia.

Hi Bro,
The very dark black 'dots' in a triangular shape looks a bit odd to me as a proper blotter is typically round or circular in shape.
Before depositing the blotter, did you make sure the paper was clean and white and the dipstick was not touching/in contact with the paper?
What's is size or length in mm of the 3 sides of the blackish triangle in its original form/sample as kept by you?
Wish you could throw some light on the blackish triangle things, assuming proper steps in depositing the oil drop onto the paper has been taken by you.

Yes, Mo and Boron are good for fuel economy as their compounds are basically friction-reducing in nature.

They are sort of solid lubricants thickening up the Minimum Oil Film Thickness at the same time generating relatively lower oil temperature assisting lower viscosity oil grade to withstand better in high stress areas in cam lobes etc.

Besides, Boron performs additionally as an oil detergent/dispersant too.

This post has been edited by zeng: Oct 8 2021, 01:22 PM

Hi Bro,
It is somewhat odd to me as well. I had collect it myself and didn't see it on the paper before.

Doing another blotter today. Will see how it goes. Hopefully nothing to do with the fiber balance shaft breaking down.



This post has been edited by tchinhe: Oct 11 2021, 05:59 PM

Ahhh.... Bro that makes some sense that the blackish stuffs may be potentially of fibre material, who knows?

Ok, for now let's make the assumption that the blackish particles is 'foreign' and not part of the emulsified oil sample from which you took blotter spot test samples.

Other than the blackish 'foreign' particles stuff, the Centre zone is transparent and not darkened which means there is almost no large size or heavy metal wear contaminants within the oil sample which is good news.

The slightly 'clearer' second blotter picture here of 6000 km usage (compared to previous first blotter picture posted on Oct 7) points vaguely to the very preliminary stage of potential emergence of increasingly darkened aureuol zone/perimeter ring.
Fact is the slightly darkened aureole zone has not formed, yet!

This is something important for us to monitor for the eventual possible formation or emergence of (very) darkened or greyish aureole zone/perimeter ring with continuing use of this 6000 km Castrol 20W50.

The Diffusion zone is clear and transparent, clearly pointing to the negligible or very low levels of fine size contaminants or combustion by-products within the oil sample.

There is absence of darkened zigzag jagged edge at the outside edge indicating absence of moisture and/or absence or low levels of oxidation phenomenon, which is really good news for a mineral oil at 6000 km usage.

Very slight halo phenomenon at the outermost zone pointing to some very slight amount of fuel dilution in this 54.5k kms 2016 Estime engine.

Overall I think this 6000 km Castrol 20W50 mineral oil is fit for continuing use if you do desire, as I believe the detergency and dispersancy properties of the used oils are basically intact unharmed and there is very little oil oxidation if any.

On fibre balance shaft in an Estima .......


Note: I would estimate the size/lengths of the 3 sides of the 'blackish' triangle as about 2.5mm X 2..5mm X 1.5 mm in the real physical sample. Is the estimate off?

This post has been edited by zeng: Oct 11 2021, 10:23 PM

Bro Zeng, good estimate. Actual is 0.5mm bigger at 3mm x 3mm x2mm. Subsequent blotters are clean and looks similar. I tried to drain some oil as it is overfilled and I found bubbles when checking dip stick. Unfortunately the drain plug dropped in the oil and I end up draining the whole pan. So ends of this oil use.

My initial blotter at 53k there is something that looks like metal bits. But it fell off the paper as I was shuffling between other papers before 48hr.

Myvi 2006 auto
Kaito 5w30 fully synthetic
Age of oil: 9 months
Mileage of car: 198772 km
Mileage of oil: 1172 km
Droplet is left for 2 days



This post has been edited by abubin: Oct 21 2021, 02:40 PM

Hi Bro,

For a very short usage 1172 km blotter spot test of a fully synthetic 5W30 Kaito oil, the degree of greyness/darkness indicates a rather poor blotter spot performance.

Mechanical conditons of this 2006 Myvi auto engine and your driving styles may also contribute to this relatively poor blotter performance.

The Centre zone is quite greyish though remains transparent indicating substantial amount of large size and/or heavy metallic wear contaminants for a lowish 1172 km blotter.

Emerging darkened aureole zone or darkened perimeter ring too could be observed indicating the oil sample has commenced agglomeration at this early stage.

Diffusion zone is transparent but relatively greyish pointing to quite substantial amount of fine-sized contaminants for its low mileage, imho.

There is absence of darkened zig-zag jagged edge at the outermost zone, as expected for a typically low mileage blotter spot, points to near absence of moisture and/or oil oxidation phenomenon.

External to outermost zone one can see clearly the all too obvious and large size translucent halo indicating a rather severe fuel dilution phenomenon leading to poor/high fuel consumption.

Generally, I believe this 1172 km used Kaito 5W30 oil whose detergency and dispersancy properties still remains intact and thus is fit for continuing use imo whilst keeping a close eye on formation of darkened aureole zone/ perimeter ring.

Just my 2 sen.

This post has been edited by zeng: Oct 22 2021, 12:04 PM

Thanks for the detailed analysis. I have since done oil flush and changed to another old which I will use for maybe 1 month. This is to clear the engine from the harmful engine flush that may still linger after the first flush.

Bro Zeng...... this is SHU 5w-40 API SN from Giant.

Done 12.6k kms. Used on Elantra 2.0 NA (G4GC). Pic shows 48hrs blot, sample taken hot.

Last service 05 Jan 2021, drained out 16 Oct 2021. Took 10mth to reach 12.6k km due to MCO. Piled up around 6-7k km during the 1st 3mth coz still can travel. MCO came in Mar 2021 and all were down to short distance drives to buy groceries. Then travel resumed from end-Aug till drain out date.

Appreciate your analysis.




This post has been edited by speedy3210: Oct 23 2021, 05:36 PM