unfortunately i have to disagree. your just short sighted. if you have a unit now and you are collecting rental today. Pay the damn installment + topup the same amount you need to pay to the bank. Chances are on the 10th - 12th year you have already fully paid the property. Thank me later.

I would not even want to factor in the appreciation value etc.. i would take it as there will not be appreciation and the price now will be the same with the price 10 years later down the road.

You can't call something as a bad investment when you have ppl paying for your installment for let's say 30 years, collecting rental out of it and doing the repayment using that money.

You lose only a couple hundreds per annum for the cukai pintu etc, another few hundred or thousand for maintenance and perhaps to fork out a couple of months rental along the way when your finding for a new tenant.

Yr FD can't do it, yr unit trust can't do it. Remember for those you will need upfront a couple hundred of thousand in order to meet the same amount. Never link an investment using debit to compare with credit.

Leverage amplify profits as well as losses. given initial loan repayment mostly pay for loan interest, many flippers' outstanding/redemption principal sum remain higher than expected and could be under water.

since you debated with me since 2012, may recall i sold 2 units near peak. according to brickz recently; the condo psf is still at about the amount when i sold.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Feb 23 2023, 02:02 PM

worst are those whom hold their property post 2015 GSt citing price will shoot up.....but price dropped and remained stagnant....losses to them......

oi u ownself invest and sold 2 then u ask pol dont invest. oi apa nih. u just limiting yr competition issit.

Since I have some time let's do some math.

Buying and renting out costs (550k property)
50k downpayment
50k renovation
25k legal fees and stamp duty
5k every 10 years to for repairs/upkeep

Let's say you rent out at 1.6k and your installment should be 2.3k per month for 30 years. Let's assume maintenance is 300 per month. So you still need to top up every month 1000. Over 360 months assuming all months rented, you have put in 360k + 140k. At this point it really depends how much the property is worth 30 years later.

If you put in the same amount into an investment instrument generating you 5%, after 30 years you get 1,442,201.41.

For me personally, I am debt free and my properties are fully paid. I now live free and cannot imagine working another few decades to pay for the properties and manage the tenants. Perhaps the hybrid approach is to invest the money that you have first. Once you have grown them enough, then you pay half the property's price and in that case rent can cover the installment.

I bought years before 2012. I am not into condo or residential, meme are not my competitors. Obviously, I don't share what I bought or intend to buy, and just hoping others don't lose money.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Feb 23 2023, 07:56 PM

one thing stays the same, the same group of ppl in the last 11 years and more to go.. they always use figures which doesn't make sense. don't compare base on your own narrative, it's literally plucking figures out from thin air.. some says ass.

1. fd ever give you 5%? which investment instrument give you 5% gurantee for god damn 30 years!. don't tell me kwsp i have 5000+ going into it monthly. i don't want all my money in the same basket.

2. you want to use a property as comparison can do abit homework? what shit investment rm550k fully furnished and getting only rm1.6k back. now let me give you a realistic one with the damn condo name.

serin residence 144sft, 550k fully furnished unit rental rm2.2k - 2.5k. i have few.. not one of two but few colleagues renting there.

verdi 990sft, 420k basic Ikea furnishing my contract staff is renting for rm2k! i have more to share but all these are in Cyberjaya.. they are not even in hotspots like bukit jalil, kl or pj.

add in one more.. kota warisan bought at rm550k landed, empty unit! rental rm1.6k.

of course if you have a prop bought in 2018 like me you would have make a lost but that's the same with all kind of investment. the same property i had while I'm debating with this numb skull iceman in 2012 it's still generating me surplus income in the last 11 years. prop name puri aiyu condo.

3. you dare give a span of 30 years to compare. my god property has a good track record they don't lie.
40 years - PJ - property once sold for rm120k is now rm900k.. maybe rm850k
30 years - subang - property once sold for rm200k is now approx 700k
20 years - puchong - those sold at 300k+ is now all > rm500k

i dont want to mention other places like bukit jalil, setia alam, kota kemuning but you get the idea..

anyway they're also bad property investment. one very good example is those who bought rm720k - 780k for Savannah in bukit jalil. someone brought it up here.. those are the properties which i call bad investment cause during that period, that time of the year the place isn't really a hotspot and selling at those kind of prices and still ppl buy em. well they just gotta hold longer period of time.

i so happen have a colleague who owns a unit there. we told him to hold and get others but somehow he kind the place so he gave to bite the bullets and continue on with his dream home idea.

This post has been edited by kidmad: Feb 23 2023, 08:26 PM

1. Since when did I mention fd? If you can't make 5% from your investments you probably shouldn't invest.

2. I didn't impossible but I did say most properties can't even get a rent matching their installment. If you find properties in cyber giving you such returns, then suit yourself. I will avoid cyber no matter how much return it is giving.

3. Again I didn't mention that property won't appreciate. In 30 years everything will appreciate. Everyone knows that. But by how much? With the amount of easing and also inflation, how bad the next recession can be anyone's guess.

As an investor I am only interested in making as much money from my investments. Unfortunately properties are in the highs now and I can make better money elsewhere unless my path crosses with a desperate seller.

You can't deny that many are indeed having negative equity if they bought properties post 2014. So even if there are some still making money of properties, most are not and we have to give icemanfx credit for that. Nothing goes up forever. That is why smart investors are fluid to move from one instrument to another.

Residential price rise at about inflation rate in the long term.

40 years at 5.0% compounded; 120k would worth about 844k.
30 years at 5.0% compounded; 200k would worth about 864k.
20 years at 5.0% compounded; 300k would worth about 795k.

Bare in mind, those bought with bank loan need to pay/deduct loan interest during the loan tenure.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Feb 23 2023, 10:04 PM

What year you sold? ........ Flora damansara?

In 2013/14, a condo in sunway.

I want to ask your opinion.....I bought this unit 5% downpayment ....vp @ 2016..... current rental cover @ 90% ( bank instalment & maintenace) ......at year 2041.... loan fully paid ...... assuming .....sell it with 20% price increase.... gain or no gain?..............Residential price rise at about inflation rate

This post has been edited by adam71: Feb 23 2023, 10:38 PM

If rental could cover 90% of loan and low entry cost, most qualified tenant would buy rather than rent.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Feb 23 2023, 10:45 PM

the new launching psf around here even...... more higher thanks to MRT push up the empty land. .....You did not answer my question.

This post has been edited by adam71: Feb 23 2023, 10:48 PM

Mrt and lrt is not new in KV. Poorperly price and rental near MRT or lrt stations are well established and known.

Extreme jam is very new......petrol subsidy ending also new.... time is $$ not new....new lifestyle = public transport also new...

This post has been edited by adam71: Feb 24 2023, 07:52 AM

so what is your takr?
keep cash rm2 million better or buy property?

for me cash 2 million will earn more...... property is already bye bye... no more like last time after the huge hike which was unreasonable

those whom buy prop now will suffer


those with cash and loanless will life a womderful life

Neither. To reduce risk, diversification is key.

Hard assets are hedged against inflation so you can take some of your 2m to buy a property in cash. But don't need to rush, the market is unlikely to spike like in 2009 because most countries can no longer print money out of their problems without causing inflation. Find desperate sellers, buy low so that when money is taken off the system, your purchase is less likely to make a loss.

sihambodoh shouldn't be your username...

This post has been edited by coyouth: Feb 24 2023, 12:06 PM