Might be biased, or yeah the German car owners take more care of their cars. The thing about reliability of Japanese cars like Toyota is that they can take quite abusive owners (those who forget or miss regular maintenance, drive more harshly, replace with cheaper non original parts etc2.) and the cars just keep going.


Yeah to me the high end Lexus is already about as luxurious as their German counterparts. I remember sitting in their first LS400 back in early 90s and that car IMHO is really on par with the Mercs S and BMW 7 series, maybe even more luxurious in some aspects (for example the full Nakamichi audio system back then). The insulation (NVH) was also mind blowing, it was so damn quiet and smooth that I would not notice if the engine was running unless I look at the tacho. Granted they may look more boring/lack character compared to Mercs/BMW but in term of luxury I think about the same already.

Q50 interior is better than F30 BMW 3 Series. Much more premium feel with loads of soft touch and leather wrapped all round. Handling more comfort like a C Class rather than the more sporty BMW and Audi.

It was started in the American market to combat the perception ppl have that Japanese cars are cheap and utilitarian. Even now, many in America don't know that Lexus is owned by Toyota. They're spoken of in completely different tones. Same goes for Infiniti. As for Acura, it is more a youthful brand over there so Honda sport cars like NSX and Integra plus their crossovers are sold under that name.
Afaik, Lexus and Infiniti are standalone in terms of the models, development and manufacture, whereas Acura are simply called Honda everywhere else.

As for that German Tüv test comparing German and Japanese cars, I think the keyword here is German. There is bound to be some bias. Also, as mentioned, people take much better care of their Merc than their Japanese runabout, yet the Japanese one is equally reliable, what does that tell you?

This post has been edited by djtong: Nov 4 2016, 04:24 PM

Dash design, material, fitment and user interface aside, sat in a Q50 before, the seats are a revelation...never knew that seats can be designed to be THAT good to sit on. I have sat in C Class, 5 series, E Class, Camry, Mazda 6 & CX5, but none is more memorable than the short moment i sat on the Q50.

Volvo is also famous for comfy seats, but no change to try it before....so maybe Volvo can match or beat it....

My observation is that Japanese cars may not boast the best performance, but the key to reliability is easy serviceability. It is much easier to reach a part in the engine bay of a Japanese compared to a German.

Germans engineering are no doubt good, really good performance, very intricate and complex, so when brake down, really need expert to handle it....also, their fancy of using so MANY sensors!!!! Sometimes, it is the sensor module or wiring that rosak instead of the part that is being measured itself

This post has been edited by wkc5657: Nov 4 2016, 05:05 PM

That exactly!

this.... way over engineered, good and bad... *actually some of the jepunis cars becoming more and more complex already.......

LOL ... I also saw and quickly snap ...

There's also Scion... or there was Scion at least. Anyway, a Toyota Avensis is pretty much like a conti, though the interior may lack a bit in style. Still, https://i.ytimg.com/vi/yxE2Mk3SFAU/maxresdefault.jpg is IMHO significantly nicer than the Uncle barge Camry. Likewise the Auris. Toyota has separate models for Europe, to match European tastes and demands (although the Auris and Altis dashboards are almost identical, apart from the outside air vents). Remember the Hyundai i40, running alongside the Sonata in Malaysia? The i40 is for Europe, the Sonata for Asia/US.

IMHO those luxury brands from Japanese manufacturers aren't meant for Europe. You rarely see a Lexus in Germany, and even fewer Infiniti (they only started sales a few years ago?). No Acura at all. The NSX is a Honda.

Not sure if Japanese cars can take the abuse. Servicing intervals are shortest for Japanese cars in Germany. Like, a Honda may have to be sent for service every 15k, while VW is 30k and Renault, Fiat etc. is 35k. Oh yeah, guess which cars do well in the statistics and which ones don't. Dacia btw. does terrible... I guess because those cars are very, very cheap, and the cars are abused. People who spend very, very little on their car tend to spend even less on keeping it running in perfect condition. I can also imagine that people who buy Japanese cars do so because they want reliability. What other reason is there to buy a Toyota? So they may take more care of their cars.

My Golf is asking me to send it to VW for inspection... no oil change, just let them have a look at the car to check if everything is ok. I think that is important for it to work reliably, oil doesn't need to be changed so often, but it's necessary to check for upcoming issues before they get problematic and perhaps cause a breakdown (plus a much higher bill).

The TÜV test examines every car on German roads, every 2 years. If you don't pass, the car needs to be fixed, and tested again. Until it passes, it isn't road legal. The testers should be impartial.

Oh, and a German pro-VW car magazine regularly tests new cars... they buy them, drive them for 100k km or more, then take them apart to see the condition (and of course they keep track of what went wrong with the car in the meantime). The first-gen Touran did extremely bad, so bad that their cover image was of a tent in front of a VW dealership. The most reliable car they have ever tested was a Toyota Prius. Other Toyota models didn't fare so well... just somewhere middle of the road, but Mazda does very, very well (sadly the ones before they got so stylish... no idea if the new models are as good).

@wkc5657: Multiple European brands offer different seats for their cars... VW has 3 different seats for the Golf for example. Regular, sports (they are rather comfy IMHO, just a bit body hugging), and some luxury seats with electric adjustment in 14 different ways. Those are supposed to be super ergonomic, and I believe they even have a massage function. Never been able to try those though. One thing I had to notice about seats... seats that seem extremely comfortable at first don't have to be when you drive for many hours, and vice versa. The Golf sports seats are good after many hours of driving, even though they seem rather normal at first. The seats in my Xsara are really comfortable at first, but I do get some backache after a couple of hours.

I think one thing that may set Europeans and Japanese a bit apart is attention to detail. Head units in mainstream Japanese cars often enough seem tacked on... seem aftermarket. European brands do a better job of integrating it into the design, of making it part of the actual car design. Makes it much harder to replace with aftermarket units, but it looks very nice. In the Golf there is a small ridge molded into the plastic next to the rear seats. The purpose is to keep the seatbelts at the side when you fold the seats... when you put back the seats, the seatbelts are where they are supposed to be. The door bins are lined with felt, so when you put stuff there it doesn't rattle around. There's an almost obscene amount of thought in the smallest items, and that feels special.

Japanese also over-engineer things... but with different goals. The Prius is such a car IMHO, the hybrid drive train is extremely well designed, with lots of tolerances built in to ensure reliability. Unlike the Germans they have realized that reputation is everything, especially for new technology. The first gen Hybrid absolutely had to be reliable, otherwise the technology may be rejected by customers forever. Just look at VW. DSG is a good idea, but at this point it doesn't matter anymore if the latest gen is reliable or not, people will just reject it.

Bro...this is Not true. Most probability you never own a merz or bmw....totally Not true.
Q50/60 same merz bmw ?
Perception ? Omg
Cheers

Bro..totally agree
Cheers

That is his perception, there is no right or wrong.

In fact even the new honda civic, I'm willing to bet that honda purposely lowered the torque rating so that the CVT gearbox will last longer. Take VW for eg, 250nm rated torque for the 7 speed dsg gearbox, and guess what is the engine rated at, Yes exactly 250nm. No allowances, no buffer at all for manufacturing variances.

I think if you take toyota engineers to work on the DSG gearbox and improve it. I'm pretty sure they'll make it reliable in 1 generation.


This post has been edited by Drian: Nov 5 2016, 10:10 PM

Honda and Toyota too mainstream. Even drive accord and Camry don't feel the class

Haha, probably. I'm not too confident with that either, luckily my Golf has a manual gearbox. Worry free, fun and pretty much as easy to drive as an auto.

Thing is, Toyota already has their e-CVT which is CVT only in function... it has nothing to do with the rubber band used by others. It's a brilliant system, boring to drive perhaps, but brilliant engineering and super reliable. They completely rethought the gearbox to do their hybrid, rather than take an ordinary one and attach an electric motor. No clutch, the cogs are always connected.

Well actually Camry & Accord are supposed to be just ordinary level family cars and not meant to be cars with class in the first place! Only in countries like Malaysia, SG, Indonesia, etc2 where cars are priced exorbitantly then people expect them to have class!

I do miss those understated Lexus of before though. Nowadays they look to much like some Gundam/Decepticon. I guess previously their design did not differ from Japanese models whereas these days different markets get different design.
Currently Audi seems to be champion at understated luxury, but reliability and resale are zero. Merc is nice outside but too many flashing lights inside. BMW catering to their main clientele of road bullies at the cost of everyone else (I guess Rolls is their real luxury brand). Volvo running out of ideas whereas everyone else has caught up with safety. Jaguar losing out to Bentley.
Too bad Cadillac and Lincoln all not brought in here, I feel our roads and driving style has alot in common with America.

Asian because more spare parts available

conti cars in boleh land purposely reduce sound proof material? example vw passat very noisy in side car cabin when reaching above 100. Do you all here notice that? please share your own experience here. thanks

There is an existing thread on Passat! Btw, naber owned one so couldn't notice!

Hi everyone, am running a survey for an assignment and have shared it with my own network but still need help from more people and figured this would be a place to get more help on this. Anyone, if you feel like helping out, can just click on this Google Form to help me fill up the survey.

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