Thanks for your comments Michael. Basically the middle men takes back the fish live. They will come to collect it with their 3 tonne lorry that is equipped with aerators. Most likely they are supplying to restaurants where they can get a good price for them.

We are trying to understand the risk involved in the business as neither me or my partner has experience in it. This is why I posted in this forum. Infact today I just brought over an experience farmer to the fish farm to gauge to see if the business is viable.

I understand that in any business there will be many risk involved, otherwise everyone would be doing business. There will also be plenty of ways to reduce risk with the right knowledge. Risk that are out of our control will be tough to mitigate but with experience, perhaps we could bring down the cost of production and increase quality.

I foresee that demand will remain high since population growth is certain but it also depends on the number of players that will take up the venture. If the market becomes oversaturated, then prices goes down and most farmers will suffer. The tilapia will be 100% pellet fed and if pellet feed keeps increasing in price each year and the price of fish keeps dropping, I don't see any sense in its economics, unless we become flooded with cheap tilapias from thailand or china.

well I hope to ROI in 1 - 2 years and perhaps do about 20 - 30% profit

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Added on March 29, 2012, 5:33 pmHi Mr. Farmer,

My partner and I definitely do not have hands-on experience in running a fish farm. I'm from the IT background and he is from manufacturing. We both have keen interest in aquaculture but our experience goes as far as rearing ornamental fish. I do not know how else to get hands-on experience in a fish farm unless I go and work in one which I doubt will happen. We plan to attend a few trainings and basically get our hands dirty immediately.

I have closed friends who have experience in aquaculture so they would be able to help out. Moreover, the farm is already being operated by 3 Indons and they basically do everything from changing water to harvesting the fish. The owner of the farm has also agreed to guide us for a couple of weeks to get ourselves familiar in managing the fund.

We have done cashflow projections for 3 years so basically we will know how long our capital can last.

We definitely won't know the real reason the owner is selling the farm but he claims he is retiring.... so can't really say much about that.

This post has been edited by elmer: Mar 29 2012, 05:33 PM

Elmer:

My apologies if we sounded a little antagonistic, but we really meant well. Aquaculture, like agriculture, is a sensitive business influenced by many external factors. But again, we're all in this together to learn from each other, so hope there isn't any hard feelings.

If they are collecting live fish, then most likely it is for restaurants or for processing. Since they are a feed company, I'm thinking it could be the latter, as the by product from the fish could be used to produce fish feeds.

I agree with your observation on population growth and demand for cheaper sources of proteins. And I also agree that too many players in the market will lead to sharp price reductions. However, I also believe that there will be a stablizing factor which will keep things in balance.

Just so happens I'm currently doing an analysis of the Malaysian aquaculture industry. Actually, the current prices of tilapia is no secret. Fresh frozen whole tilapia from China sells for around US$1.50, or about RM4.60 a kg. Top grade tilapia flesh from Taiwan (sashimi grade) sells for almost 3 times that figure. This is wholesale price. I believe, there are enough niches for producers to tackle. I know of one particular company producing tilapia, and they have vertically integrated a processing plant near their site. They used to do domestic and regional sale, but now are 100% export oriented, producing tilapia fillets. Latest I heard, their venture was so successful that they are expanding into marine shrimp culture also, with a double digit million ringgit investment. FYI, this company has only been doing this for about 5 years.

From the analysis I've been doing so far, most aquaculture companies are no longer focused on raw material production, i.e. just producing fish. Many are actually merging their businesses with other companies focus on different peripheries of the trade, eg. logistics, feedmill, processing and marketing/distribution. This is the emerging trend in aquaculture businesses. Case in point, Gold Coin (feed producer) recently acquired Sy Aqua, which is a marine shrimp R&D and production unit based in Thailand, and together, they will be going into shrimp aquaculture in a big way. There have been some talk about further expansion within ASEAN too.

However, I'm not too sure if 20-30% is a realistic figure... This 20-30% figure has already factored in amortization of capital items?

[quote=Michael J.,Mar 29 2012, 09:01 AM]MrFarmer:

Whoa! That is really low water level. I thought I recalled that flooding used to be an issue. Maybe I've confused you with someone else.

As I said, your idea is good, just laborious. Why not just test it and see? Never try, never know, and it will always just remain an idea on paper. But please do clean the herbicide barrels thoroughly, including soaking with soapy water for a few days. Herbicide residue can still be dangerous for crops.

[/quote]
Thanks for the reminder on the cleaning of the herbicide barrel.
My farm do not have flood problem, 1) just a small patch of land where the water can not drain off. Had solved this by digging a drainage trough. 2) Side of the creek floods during the rainy season, and subside when no rain. Had not sort this as there are still lots of overgrown and short of labor at the moment.
Yes, am definitely testing this out.

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Added on March 29, 2012, 9:43 pm

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Added on March 29, 2012, 5:33 pmHi Mr. Farmer,

My partner and I definitely do not have hands-on experience in running a fish farm. I'm from the IT background and he is from manufacturing. We both have keen interest in aquaculture but our experience goes as far as rearing ornamental fish. I do not know how else to get hands-on experience in a fish farm unless I go and work in one which I doubt will happen. We plan to attend a few trainings and basically get our hands dirty immediately.

I have closed friends who have experience in aquaculture so they would be able to help out. Moreover, the farm is already being operated by 3 Indons and they basically do everything from changing water to harvesting the fish. The owner of the farm has also agreed to guide us for a couple of weeks to get ourselves familiar in managing the fund.

We have done cashflow projections for 3 years so basically we will know how long our capital can last.

We definitely won't know the real reason the owner is selling the farm but he claims he is retiring.... so can't really say much about that.

[/quote]
Hi Elmer, sorry, I'm just playing the antagonistic role, but I really meant well and wish you to have success on your first try.

Any possibility of roping in the most experience friend as a junior partner? This may greatly reduce your risk on the production side.

As for the 3 Indons, do check when is their permit expiring and how long have they been in Malaysia. Their work permit can only be renewed up to 3 years, after that, they shall need to leave the country. Please be prepared as most probably 3 of them falls on the same date.

I went into agriculture on a way, and hope others shall be more prepared. I got my hand dirtied gradually for the past 20 months, but the last 7 months was very intensive as my partner left. Just hurt my back 2 weeks back, now was referred to an Orthopedic and today got a cut while sharpening my parang Not that I'm regretting it, but I feel that you shall fare much better if you are more prepared.

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Added on March 29, 2012, 9:48 pm[quote=jwai85,Mar 29 2012, 03:25 PM]
Hi guys... i was randomly reading about hydroponics, then aeroponics, then it brought me to fertigation, that led me to Cili Fertigasi and then it led me here after a stop by the autopot site...lolz...

was planning on starting small with a mini fertigation "farm" behind my house to just try it out before things get serious. any opinion on this business you can share?

[/quote]
Hi Jwai85, welcome.
You may want to visit Sin Seng Huat Seeds, http://www.greeneagle.com.my/main.htm
They sell seeds and supplies for fertigation. They have set up their fertigation at their office and looks quite easy enough. They can even show you how to do it. Was there last week, didn't bring my camera.

This post has been edited by MrFarmer: Mar 29 2012, 09:48 PM

Mmm.... I believe I've somehow hit on a raw nerve.

Ok, let me just put it this way: Don't let anyone tell you something cannot be done, if you truly believe you can do it, and you are prepared to do whatever it takes to get it done.

My comments were based on the inputs provided, and is not meant to be a discouragement, but rather a reality check. If that was not how it sounded, then truly, my most sincere apology.

Hi Michael,

No worries. No hard feelings from me. It was indeed good that you could present your points honestly and objectively so that I know what I am getting into.

My partner and I have been working for the past 8 - 9 years and we left our cushy high paying jobs to work for ourselves. We understand that we won't be able to enjoy high salaries for the first few years but we want to know if this is a business we can build long term and eventually make it big.

That example you provided on the company that is doing Tilapia fillets and are now 100% export oriented is what we want to eventually aim for. I do not want to get into this business if it will just basically put food on the table and nothing more. So really, at the end of the day, there is big potential in the business but its just how big you want to grow it and how well you manage it.

Thanks again for your insights. They really provide me with a great overview of the current trends in the industry.

Elmer :

if you dont mind i would like to post my answer here also to your PM

=======================

RAS initial costing is too high for small time players because you dont get Economies of Scale.

unless you have RM 10-20 million sitting in your bank then its worth your time and effort.

actually RAS gives you control of labour because it requires less labour to operate the system.

well there are a few tilapia farmers in Hulu Langat, Semenyih & Broga that are quite big. but they are NOT RAS

=======================

if you are doing pond culture then your initial cost wouldn't be that high BUT you have to be very very careful with labour force as i know a few people who "manufacture" culvert pipes & others in KL/Selangor had closed down due to our Govt's Pemutihan Exercise

another thing i didnt read or maybe i missed, Where is this 8 acre of land ???

and seriously depending on your take-over price can you ROI in 1-2 years ?

Elmer:

Ah, great then. The desire to pursue after a greater ambition is indeed a good thing.

If your intention is to do value-added products, then yes, the opportunities are great. The demand for value-added products flip-flops between the US and Europe, meaning some years US has over-the-top demand, but then some years (like 2011 and 2012), the demand drops drastically (nearly 14% drop in demand). You may have already known, aquaculture in Malaysia is growing at about 14% a year, but is expected to slow down a little by 2015 to about 9% growth per annum. So for any player who intends to do only what I'd call "raw material production", the competition will be quite stiff. Value-added products have the great benefit of being able to move between markets more easily, have a more stable pricing, and are less prone to legislation threats.

From what I can see, a lot of consumers in the US and Europe are moving away from pricey fish species like sea bass and seaperch, and buying up more pangasius and tilapia. Asia Pacific, on the other hand, seem to be going for higher-valued fish, like barramundi and grouper. But whatever the case is, fish in US and Europe is pricey; in the US, tilapia fillets sell for US$11 per kg (about RM33) retail.

Para:

You are right that RAS requires economies of scale, and that the costs can be high. But it does solve many other issues, like taste, quality, disease control, labor etc. Also, RAS allows you to flip between different cultures quite easily.

Agreed on this comment. RAS has many advantages compared to pond culture especially CONTROL Issues.

I didnt know that you can flip between cultures....now that's interesting...

Michael:

Thanks for your insights again. You definitely are an expert in this field. We have to probably take small baby steps before moving into value added products as producing those products comes with a big cost. Indeed that is where we want to be headed if that is where the money is. I guess farming tilapia would be a good place to start.

The world population is definitely increasing and people are living longer. I see that the demand will only increase for fresh fish especially when harvesting from the wild will soon be no longer a viable option. Thanks again and wish us luck! I will keep you guys updated on our progress.

Para:

Yes, you can swith from one culture to another. But I should clarify that by "flip", I mean after a few years of one culture, flip to another. If want to alternate between years, it is more difficult to maintain.

Also, the success of flipping from freshwater to marine culture depends on the availability of acceptable quality, cheap marine salt. My opinion, however, if not to do a full marine culture, but a brackish water culture instead (brackish water is like river mouth water, partly marine, partly freshwater). Species suitable for this sort of culture include many species of bream and porgies, grunts, and some snappers. All these fish have very high wholesale and retail values, are quite disease tolerant, and have strong, ready demand domestically and internationally. The major shortfall is availability of fingerlings (except snappers like Mangrove Jacks). Some, like the grunts (aka gerut) have abundant wildstock, while breams and porgies are less common but still available.

Elmer:

Yes, please do update us from time to time. It would be good to have your inputs.

Michael,

After much deliberation, we are thinking of cutting down our risk and moving into higher value fish with lower operating cost. We have identified a smaller farm that is now rearing tilapia as well as marble goby. Can I get your opinion on the marketability of marble goby and what sort of risk factors to look out for. The farm will be smaller and opex will be significantly lower. The farm has 3 ponds - 2 big one (half an acre) and one small one (quarter acre). We are thinking to breed live feed (small fish or shrimps) for food source in the smaller pond and grow out the marble goby in floating cages in the bigger ponds so that personal attention can be given to each fish. We realize mortality in marble goby is pretty low so special care needs to be taken to check the fish for disease.

Your thoughts on this will be much appreciated.

Elmer:

I think you meant "mortality in marble goby is pretty high".

Marble goby does have a very strong market demand, domestically and internationally. You might need to be wary about costs vs market price though. For this fish, I would suggest that you market direct to your customer, instead of going through a middle man.

As you've rightly noted, the fish is not exactly the easiest species to culture, especially if your seed (fish fry) are from wild sources. There are a few challenges with wild caught seed:
(i) Feeding problem. It appears that in many cases, wild caught seed do not adapt to formulated or artificial feeds. Feeding with live feed is often part of the solution, however in certain cases, even if there is abundant live feed, some fish do not feed due to factors such as stress, competition etc. One easier, but possible slightly costlier, method of solving this is by getting farm raised seeds which have already been adapted to artificial feeds and captive culture. You might like to contact Marine Life Aquaculture Pte Ltd (Mr Frank Tan, (65) 9151 2221) about this, as he does supply to Malaysia also. But please do ensure enough feed is given, as marble goby can be highly cannibalistic.
(ii) Disease problem. This is usually associated with wild seeds also. Captive bred seed are normally quite free from diseases, but even then, it is still possible to stress the fish out when the environment isn't suited. Do note, marble gobies are ambush feeders, meaning they are most comfortable when there's adequate shelter and hiding places. You will need to look out for white spot disease, especially.
(iii) Growth rate problem. Honestly, this fish is not known for its fast growth. You can see this from its nature, where the fish is usually inactive except when feeding. Many culturist struggle with getting their fish to weigh in at 500g (standard market weight, I was told) within 8-12 months. This could become a problem, especially if cash flow is an issue. Again, do check with Mr. Frank on this, because his stock are able to hit 600g within 8 months quite consistently.

Aside from these issues, the availability of marble goby seed is one other matter. Currently in Malaysia, most of the fries are wild caught, either within Malaysia, or from Indonesia. Oh yes, speaking of which, please do verify with the person supplying the fries, if they are from freshwater or brackish water sources. Like barramundi (siakap), there is a slight difference in the biology and culture of saltwater vs freshwater variants. Although the saltwater variant can be adapted to freshwater, it usually takes time and there will be some casualties during this adaptation time.

What you're proposing has actually been done in Vietnam, and has proven some level of success. The main hindrance, they noted, was the availability of seed and disease outbreak.

On a side note:

I've seen one of the aquarium shops in PJ which cultures freshwater marble goby. The uncle is an old family friend, and what he did was build a cement tank, fill it up with bogwood/drift wood and PVC pipes, and pack the tank with wild guppies, freshwater shrimp, and seluang fish. And then, whenever he get marble goby (usually found in his weekly delivery of freshwater shrimp), he will add them to the tank. It seems there is little mortality or even cannibalism. He usually sells the 500-600g fish to the Chinese seafood restaurant next to his aquarium, and fetches very good prices. His tank isn't very big, about 10 feet x 10 feet, and just 3.5 feet deep. But his stocking density seems very high, about 70 fish per cubic meter. He reasoned that with adequate hiding places, it is still possible, despite the added bogwood and PVC pipes, and he didn't mind the challenge with catching the larger fish amidst the mess.

elmer : i think you meant "pretty high mortality"

i had experience in culturing marble goby and they are ANYTHING BUT EASY...these buggers are freaking lazy and they grow slow which makes the venture tightening on the budget.

usually for marble goby its the feeding & growth problem that will drive you up the wall...if insufficient feed like MichaelJ. mentioned they will EAT each other...

seriously out of experience, marble goby is not a species you would want to play around with without proper knowledge & experience.

you should consider sticking to rearing "premium" tilapia

btw where is this farm you are planning to venture into ?
========================

side note, though you have lower risk now what are the plans of expansion ?? does the place allow you to expand should this venture becomes profitable ? if not how would you manage it.

because having 2 big ponds wont allow you to play much with the output. operations wise both of you might not have much to do except on output day. food for thought.

Just to add on the Micheal J on marble goby farming especially buying from wild source,

Quarantine is a must for wild source, and also be responsible avoid buying from people who goes the cheap way using malachite green, it will just cause more problem down the road (especially for health, and export market)

Marble Goby is a hard fish to farm if you follow traditional farming method, you will still produce results but with very high mortality rate. Marble Goby are very strict in their requirements compared to other culture fish, when the condition are not met, they will make you suffer, do make sure to understand marble goby's biology as well as it will be crucial in your decision making.

Marble Goby usually need special attention for each individual fish,I have seen project putting 10k+ fish fries into a pond and came out with only 100+ after 1 year but there are also other places like Malacca and Johor which are very successful due to their attention to details.

I would suggest you to do tilapia as main and marble goby as side income first to gain more experience since your livelihood is rely on fish farming, anything can happen during the duration for those marble goby to reach marketable size. Just a small externally introduced parasite outbreak can wipe out your whole farm if not properly managed.

April 2012 - Newsletter is out...

Happy Reading

Bought some Bentong Ginger last year, took these to my farm (Sabah) and planted these. Harvested and used as seedlings. Managed to plant about 6 raised beds.

Question: Can I still claim these as Bentong Ginger when I market these? As I understand Bentong Ginger is a variety.

tq for sharing..

Hello Everyone, I am new here and as well in agriculture, can any sifu here point me some direction like attending classes or seminar? thanks

hi bro,

what kind of courses or seminar are you looking at ?

Looking for Vitato Sweet Potato cutting/tuber. Want to test out planting these. Anyone can help?

http://www.mardi.my/c/document_library/get...2&groupId=10138

Something interesting to share
Enhancing Food Processing by Normah Binti Omar, Food Technology Research Center, MARDI
http://www.fama.gov.my/html/themes/fama/do...NORMAH_OMAR.pdf