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 VDSL2 Vectoring by TM, New technology that make copper 100mbps

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mztang52
post Jun 29 2016, 09:23 PM

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QUOTE(casey @ Jun 29 2016, 10:11 PM)
Frustrated with my home network speed, I have been researching various broadband standard, and happens to read through this VDSL that still utilizes our existing copper wire.

VDSL standards EXPLAIN here >>>

VDSL2+ max speed up/down achievable 100MB provided that one is within, I think, 1KM from the telco switch box or DSLAM.

Will our telco ever wanted to try something new that could at least boost our hopeless network speed in today standard, where many in the region are enjoying at least 30~100MB connection  doh.gif  doh.gif

For those of us that are not cover by UNIFI, 1MB is a pain in the ass now a days bangwall.gif  bangwall.gif  bangwall.gif

Anybody could suggest ways to achieve better speed without breaking the budget  sweat.gif  sweat.gif
*
Are you on ADSL2/Streamyx?
casey
post Jun 29 2016, 09:31 PM

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QUOTE(mztang52 @ Jun 29 2016, 09:23 PM)
Are you on ADSL2/Streamyx?
*
It's actually my mother's place, where only streamyx is available doh.gif

I feel so frustrated every time i go back a stay there for a few days bangwall.gif bangwall.gif biggrin.gif
mztang52
post Jun 29 2016, 09:45 PM

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QUOTE(casey @ Jun 29 2016, 10:31 PM)
It's actually my mother's place, where only streamyx is available  doh.gif

I feel so frustrated every time i go back a stay there for a few days  bangwall.gif  bangwall.gif  biggrin.gif
*
Go google for VDSL2+ and click on the image. You will see that the speed of VDSL2+ drops to the speed like ADSL2 when it reaches a point. In rural places, the cable are pulled over KMs, probably around 3KMs or 5KMs. When the cables are long, the speed will drops. So if TM changes to VDSL2+ technology, it is still the same. What for do they need to waste money on the things which makes no difderence?
mztang52
post Jun 29 2016, 09:48 PM

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casey
post Jun 29 2016, 10:05 PM

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QUOTE(mztang52 @ Jun 29 2016, 09:45 PM)
Go google for VDSL2+ and click on the image. You will see that the speed of VDSL2+ drops to the speed like ADSL2 when it reaches a point. In rural places, the cable are pulled over KMs, probably around 3KMs or 5KMs. When the cables are long, the speed will drops. So if TM changes to VDSL2+ technology, it is still the same. What for do they need to waste money on the things which makes no difderence?
*
Fully understood. but what i mean is that there are also some group of people, that are within the distance, that could be offer this option, especially those in a densely populated area, and are within range.

As I believe that changes and investment from the telco is not much, offering VDSL to those within reach.

I am not a specialist in this, but just here to learn from those who are in the industry rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif
SUSpakji
post Jun 29 2016, 11:09 PM

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my place no unifi
streamyx max 4mbps bangwall.gif bangwall.gif bangwall.gif

my house 2x streamyx 4mbps i paying RM148X2 =RM296+
No supprt 8mbps
seee i need 100mbps unifi very import
why i got 2x streamyx because my bro always uploading for iphone cloud daily and to much use i get slow then i got apply new streamyx for me only

daam my life bad

This post has been edited by pakji: Jun 29 2016, 11:11 PM
mztang52
post Jun 29 2016, 11:14 PM

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QUOTE(casey @ Jun 29 2016, 11:05 PM)
Fully understood. but what i mean is that there are also some group of people, that are within the distance, that could be offer this option, especially those in a densely populated area, and are within range.

As I believe that changes and investment from the telco is not much, offering VDSL to those within reach.

I am not a specialist in this, but just here to learn from those who are in the industry  rolleyes.gif  rolleyes.gif
*
TM only uses VDSL technology for those who stays in old high rise buildings only. The reason is because VDSL is costly and it only can covers a few places. Whereas, with fiber optic cable, it can be pulled for a long distance with a full 10Gb speed without any lost of speed. Compare to VDSL, its max speed is 100mbps. 100mbps/10Gb=100customers. 100mbps/100mbps=1 customer only. Also, the ping for fiber is much more lower than the ping for VDSL users.

This post has been edited by mztang52: Jun 29 2016, 11:14 PM
hashtag2016
post Jun 30 2016, 12:38 AM

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QUOTE(casey @ Jun 29 2016, 09:11 PM)
Frustrated with my home network speed, I have been researching various broadband standard, and happens to read through this VDSL that still utilizes our existing copper wire.

VDSL standards EXPLAIN here >>>

VDSL2 max speed up/down achievable 100MB provided that one is within, I think, 1KM from the telco switch box or DSLAM.

Will our telco ever wanted to try something new that could at least boost our hopeless network speed in today standard, where many in the region are enjoying at least 30~100MB connection  doh.gif  doh.gif

For those of us that are not cover by UNIFI, 1MB is a pain in the ass now a days bangwall.gif  bangwall.gif  bangwall.gif

Anybody could suggest ways to achieve better speed without breaking the budget  sweat.gif  sweat.gif
*
NO, i don't think it is a good idea. Unless u wanna stuck with low quality line for another decade or 2 decades. (don't u suffer enough from streamyx ? )

In long term, the fiber optic is the ONLY and cheap way to go..
other methods just look like white elephant projects.


If they do deploy VDSL2 widely, they need a lot of money to upgrade their devices, and old copper lines(which not in qualify or stolen) . Exist streamyx users have to upgrade their modem (about RM300 or more).
for best case, most of the VDSL2 users (within 2KM)usually got only download:30Mbps and upload:5M-10Mbps .
if u r using 1Mbps now, i don't think u can reach that speed .
and (as far as we know about TM) i believe they will make the minimum price about RM200 or above like current price of UNIFI PRO.

so, make no sense go for VDSL2
UNIFI is your only hope, although the progress of its deployment is too slow. (they don't have any reason to speed it up, coz no matter how , they still earn money from u rclxub.gif doh.gif brows.gif )

modified@2016.07.01 : rename VDSL2+ to VDSL2. misled by TS ,so sorry about that.

This post has been edited by hashtag2016: Jul 1 2016, 02:20 AM
hashtag2016
post Jun 30 2016, 12:58 AM

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QUOTE(mztang52 @ Jun 29 2016, 11:14 PM)
TM only uses VDSL technology for those who stays in old high rise buildings only. The reason is because VDSL is costly and it only can covers a few places. Whereas, with fiber optic cable, it can be pulled for a long distance with a full 10Gb speed without any lost of speed. Compare to VDSL, its max speed is 100mbps. 100mbps/10Gb=100customers. 100mbps/100mbps=1 customer only. Also, the ping for fiber is much more lower than the ping for VDSL users.
*
with G.fast can reach 500Mbps or more .
our country is too far behind. doh.gif
mztang52
post Jun 30 2016, 11:27 AM

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QUOTE(hashtag2016 @ Jun 30 2016, 01:58 AM)
with G.fast  can reach 500Mbps or more .
our country is too far behind. doh.gif
*
That's why.
casey
post Jun 30 2016, 01:06 PM

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QUOTE(hashtag2016 @ Jun 30 2016, 12:38 AM)
NO, i don't think it is a good idea.  Unless u wanna stuck with low quality line  for another decade or 2 decades. (don't u suffer enough from streamyx ? )

In  long term, the fiber optic is the ONLY and cheap way to go..
other methods just look like white elephant projects.
If they do deploy VDSL2+ widely, they  need a lot of  money to upgrade their devices, and old copper lines(which not in qualify or stolen) .  Exist streamyx  users  have to upgrade their modem (about RM300 or more).
for best case, most of the  vdsl2+ users (within 2KM)usually got only download:30Mbps and upload:5M-10Mbps .
if u r using 1Mbps now, i don't think u can reach that speed .
and (as far as we know about TM) i believe they will make the minimum price about RM200 or above like current price of  UNIFI PRO.

so, make no sense go for VDSL2+
UNIFI is your only hope, although the progress of its deployment is too slow. (they don't have any reason to speed it up, coz no matter how , they still earn money from u  rclxub.gif  doh.gif  brows.gif )
*
With no competition at all, in particular of TELCO industry, where the whole world is basically network connected, at the end, everyone lost out in the competition.

Let us just look around the region like Singapore, Korea or Hong Kong, for the progress they made.

For us, everything still seems like yesterday, with the same slogan shouted, but we are just deceiving our self in many occasion.

Everything of our daily living are rising, just that our GAJI not rising bangwall.gif bangwall.gif

mztang52
post Jun 30 2016, 05:00 PM

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QUOTE(casey @ Jun 30 2016, 02:06 PM)
With no competition at all, in particular of TELCO industry, where the whole world is basically network connected, at the end, everyone lost out in the competition.

Let us just look around the region like Singapore, Korea or Hong Kong, for the progress they made.

For us, everything still seems like yesterday, with the same slogan shouted, but we are just deceiving our self in many occasion.

Everything of our daily living are rising, just that our GAJI not rising  bangwall.gif  bangwall.gif
*
Ok. The fees they need to use for deploy the fiber cable is already a huge cost. (Not to tell you that the ISP company uses taxpayers money to deploy for their Fiber service) Still, they can't cover the whole Malaysia. The size of Malaysia is larer than Singapore and Hong Kong. Even GB and USA, they are well develped country but their service still stuck with the coverage and speed. Money is the first factor, only when you have enough money, then only you can talk about the other factors.
TSnikrizal
post Jul 1 2016, 01:12 AM

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Guys, here some updates by a source in TM:

SubB ( Sub - urban Broadband ) projects have been launched in stages , for example, to this day we have to 130K ADSL ports that have been upgraded to VDSL vectoring across the country . Deployment areas are subject to the agreement of TM and the Malaysian government . Examples of exchanges that have been successful in upgrading is Simpang Pulai ( Perak ) and Bandar Permaisuri ( Terengganu ) few others.

Theoretically, customers can enjoy the higher speed , but it is still subject to factors within the home / premise customers with exchanges / VDSL MSAN .

So , not all customers in the area can enjoy high-speed SubB evenly , some can reach up to 20M some cannot because of the distance factor.
hashtag2016
post Jul 1 2016, 02:37 AM

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QUOTE(nikrizal @ Jul 1 2016, 01:12 AM)
Guys, here some updates by a source in TM:

SubB ( Sub - urban Broadband ) projects have been launched in stages , for example, to this day we have to 130K ADSL ports that have been upgraded to VDSL vectoring across the country . Deployment areas are subject to the agreement of TM and the Malaysian government . Examples of exchanges that have been successful in upgrading is Simpang Pulai ( Perak ) and Bandar Permaisuri ( Terengganu ) few others.

Theoretically, customers can enjoy the higher speed , but it is still subject to factors within the home / premise customers with exchanges / VDSL MSAN .

So , not all customers in the area can enjoy high-speed SubB evenly , some can reach up to 20M some cannot because of the distance factor.
*
if this occur a few years back, it indeed a good news.
but it is gonna outdated now . drool.gif
not to mention that , it still a plan that yet to be launched , and will take 10 years to bring the last 2km to nationalwide users.
-oc-gassa
post Jul 1 2016, 11:01 AM

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agreed.. seems like TM late to upgrade.. nowdays wireless infra are on peak upgrading..from 2g < 3g <LTE upgrade timeline seems much faster and cover wider coverage... dint TM see this all along ?? (side from they acquired P1 which are now WEBE)
GOPI56
post Jul 1 2016, 01:31 PM

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QUOTE(nikrizal @ Jul 1 2016, 02:12 AM)
Guys, here some updates by a source in TM:

SubB ( Sub - urban Broadband ) projects have been launched in stages , for example, to this day we have to 130K ADSL ports that have been upgraded to VDSL vectoring across the country . Deployment areas are subject to the agreement of TM and the Malaysian government . Examples of exchanges that have been successful in upgrading is Simpang Pulai ( Perak ) and Bandar Permaisuri ( Terengganu ) few others.

Theoretically, customers can enjoy the higher speed , but it is still subject to factors within the home / premise customers with exchanges / VDSL MSAN .

So , not all customers in the area can enjoy high-speed SubB evenly , some can reach up to 20M some cannot because of the distance factor.
*
When at Klang Valley areas like Kajang area.
klmojuze
post Jul 1 2016, 04:34 PM

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At least they can make the most of the copper "last mile" around the world until more fibre is laid.

QUOTE(mztang52 @ Jun 30 2016, 05:00 PM)
Ok. The fees they need to use for deploy the fiber cable is already a huge cost. (Not to tell you that the ISP company uses taxpayers money to deploy for their Fiber service) Still, they can't cover the whole Malaysia. The size of Malaysia is larer than Singapore and Hong Kong. Even GB and USA, they are well develped country but their service still stuck with the coverage and speed. Money is the first factor, only when you have enough money, then only you can talk about the other factors.
*
In the end in terms of coverage and sheer numbers I think 5G wireless, especially with massive quota, will probably outpace copper and fibre.

Fibre of course will still be king.

OPTICAL FIBRE MASTER RACE! smile.gif

This post has been edited by klmojuze: Jul 1 2016, 04:36 PM
hashtag2016
post Jul 1 2016, 09:05 PM

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QUOTE(klmojuze @ Jul 1 2016, 04:34 PM)
At least they can make the most of the copper "last mile" around the world until more fibre is laid.
....
pls don't dream up for that, unless your area is already been pre-defined as UNIFI area in their "dictionary".

-------
i do believe they will upgrade adsl to vdsl in steps by steps way , by starting from the area which already offer 4Mbps and 8Mbps.
so, for 1Mbps users like Casey (ex-topic starter, b4 admin combined 2 similar topics) ,
it cound be a very very long and painful time to wait ,might take 5 years or more .
Unless TM gonna deploy it in reverse process (which is very insane way ,even to me). brows.gif
They will be always be the one who pay more but get less..

Current price for Streamyx 1Mbps still at price RM110(no including GST yet).
if sb lucky enough, got some discount, still need to pay about RM70 for 1Mbps broadband. ranting.gif
In the same time , it is only take RM7 per Mbps for an UNIFI 30Mbps user !!
non offer Price for UNIFI ADVANCED 30Mbps(with HyppTV Aneka or Varnam or Ruby Pack) is RM199 . brows.gif

This post has been edited by hashtag2016: Jul 1 2016, 09:08 PM
hashtag2016
post Jul 1 2016, 10:48 PM

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QUOTE(mztang52 @ Jun 30 2016, 05:00 PM)
Ok. The fees they need to use for deploy the fiber cable is already a huge cost. (Not to tell you that the ISP company uses taxpayers money to deploy for their Fiber service) Still, they can't cover the whole Malaysia. The size of Malaysia is larer than Singapore and Hong Kong. Even GB and USA, they are well develped country but their service still stuck with the coverage and speed. Money is the first factor, only when you have enough money, then only you can talk about the other factors.
*
ya,agree, it is not fair that comparing SG with whole Malaysia.
but how about SG vs KL ? brows.gif

IMHO, it might not a simply budget issue.
After all, any single ringgit they invested, will be taken back from the users , soon or later.
With our TM highly overprice packages, the harvest moon will come even sooner. (our 1 year , 2 years contract with them already ensuring their stable income)

so, maybe their goal is simply reaching their financial target , rather than building an Intelligent Nation.
or maybe they just simply no need to hurry.
coz, no matter how, u still need their product to connect to www . u can hide, but u cannot run away. drool.gif

This post has been edited by hashtag2016: Jul 1 2016, 10:54 PM
nymerine
post Jul 2 2016, 02:50 AM

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QUOTE(nikrizal @ Jul 1 2016, 01:12 AM)
Guys, here some updates by a source in TM:

SubB ( Sub - urban Broadband ) projects have been launched in stages , for example, to this day we have to 130K ADSL ports that have been upgraded to VDSL vectoring across the country . Deployment areas are subject to the agreement of TM and the Malaysian government . Examples of exchanges that have been successful in upgrading is Simpang Pulai ( Perak ) and Bandar Permaisuri ( Terengganu ) few others.

Theoretically, customers can enjoy the higher speed , but it is still subject to factors within the home / premise customers with exchanges / VDSL MSAN .

So , not all customers in the area can enjoy high-speed SubB evenly , some can reach up to 20M some cannot because of the distance factor.
*
This is faster than I expect, good news nonetheless.

QUOTE(-oc-gassa @ Jul 1 2016, 11:01 AM)
agreed.. seems like TM late to upgrade.. nowdays wireless infra are on peak upgrading..from 2g < 3g <LTE upgrade timeline seems much faster and cover wider coverage... dint TM see this all along ?? (side from they acquired P1 which are now WEBE)
*
They did, thus webe & TMGo.
QUOTE(hashtag2016 @ Jul 1 2016, 10:48 PM)
ya,agree, it is not fair  that comparing SG with whole Malaysia.
but how about  SG vs KL ?  brows.gif

IMHO, it might not a simply  budget issue.
After all,  any single ringgit they invested, will be taken back from the users , soon or later. 
With our TM highly overprice  packages, the harvest moon will come even sooner. (our 1 year , 2 years contract with them already ensuring their stable income)

so, maybe their goal is simply reaching their financial target , rather than  building an Intelligent Nation.
or maybe they just simply no need to hurry.
coz, no matter how, u still need  their product to connect to www . u can hide, but u cannot run away. drool.gif
*
Indeed they're in no hurry, they achieved lots of objective past year. HSBB/SUBB come in many phase, each phase takes 5 years to complete.

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