Your above typical derisive reaction to IV C is best explained by
what the following writers mention about homeopathy, in which
most doctors, and many laymen too, will react with ''placebo'',
''nonsense'', ''snake oil'', ''hocus-pocus'' and ''no scientific evidence''.


'' ..... mainstream scientists can’t explain why, so they chalk it up
to the placebo effect. You have to realize a great deal of so-called
science is “parascience” - the people who call the shots exclude
from consideration any evidence that doesn’t fit what they believe
“must” be true. ''

http://www.cancerdefeated.com/this-217-yea...s-diseases/568/



'' History is littered with tales of the arrogant and the foolish
who have preferred the easier route of reversing that logic or
who have denied that something happens simply because
they can't explain why it does. ''

Chris Woolf, Liskeard, Cornwall


http://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries...,,-9542,00.html







This post has been edited by Tham: Mar 2 2016, 10:28 AM

Hi Tham,

Sorry couldn't go through your post in detail. you don't need to quote newspapers and websites with me.

If you can prove a treatments efficacy, whether it be Vit C, Durian juice, or maggi mee daily then publish it for you and yes, even SJMC would use it. Why wouldn't they ? We are not biased against any particular drug. Just the ones that don't have enough convincing CLINICAL data.

Cellular studies like the one you posted are a good starting point, but you need to translate into clinical outcome before you can start bragging about it to the world. Maybe one day.

If its finally proven to work in clinical practice, people will be falling over themselves to give you money to use it.. trust me. Drug companies will be rushing to incorporate it into their existing treatment regimes. I'll be presenting it at international conferences etc.

BTW, the Lancet published years ago that Homeopathy doesn't work. It could never be proven in proper clinical trials... and yes.. the supporters have gone on a rampage about how it cannot be applied in trials and how trials are not accurate blah blah.. basically they are claiming they don't need evidence and what they say is true. sounds like religion no ?

But acupuncture on the other hand did prove effective in pain management in trials and is now even supported by the orthopaedic societies.

I think the medical profession globally may come across as arrogant towards alternative medicine, but in truth, its skepticism and social responsibility. When you are telling a patient or insurance company to pay potentially tens of thousands in medication and treatment fees, are you going to randomly suggest things that have no evidence ? or things that have been proven to work? It would be completely irresponsible to do the former.

However if you have all the money and are willing to pay for anything, then by all means do whatever you want. As long as its not going to make your condition worse.


The discussion has strayed very far. Its moved from Vit C to discussing the world of academic medicine and the clash between alternative and modern medicine.... you could write a book on this subject alone..

Anyway, I will no longer be able to continue this discussion here. I will continue to reply those that PM for advice, but I don't really have the time to keep updating this thread. I won't be replying from now.

Thanks Tham for your lively discussions


regards

p/s: you never know, maybe years from now if Vit C treatment in cancer becomes established, we'll have to come to you for advice.

This post has been edited by Py80: Mar 2 2016, 10:59 AM

If that's the case, how come metformin is not used in helping to treat cancer? I believed there's sufficient evidence in metformin case. Clinical trials, meta-analysis have been run.

The reason I think metformin is not used is because it's too cheap.

Let's not forget curcumin from turmeric have also been shown to have anticancer and hepatoprotective effect.

That's solely from a nutrition point of view.

Doctors would need to take into account herb-drug interactions too, especially during cancer treatment.

https://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/integrati.../herbs/turmeric

Refer to the above link, and open the tabs on contraindications, and herb-drug interactions.

He defintely wouldn't have heard about metformin, mebendazole
or celecoxib against cancer.

When he suggested that we discuss this in private,
I couldn't be bothered - a complete waste of time.

You can tell what sort of mentality he has when he
compared IV C to ''durian juice, mango juice '' .

He's been trained academically for five years to treat
diseases with drugs. This is all very alien to him - just as
the field of life extension would be.

He definitely won't know anything about the offlabel use
of common drugs against diseases, other than what he's been
academically trained on their specific uses.

For example : Paracetamol = Fever, pain.


Do you think he would have thought of prescribing low-dose
paracetamol to women to prevent ovarian cancer ?


'' ..... regular use of acetaminophen, but not aspirin,
may be associated with lower risk of ovarian cancer. ''

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11489759/



'' ...... significant inverse association between paracetamol
use and ovarian cancer risk. ''

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/9439495/



Gene expression profile of ABC transporters and cytotoxic
effect of ibuprofen and acetaminophen in an epithelial
ovarian cancer cell line in vitro.


http://www.scielo.br/pdf/rbgo/v37n6/0100-7...37-06-00283.pdf



'' ...... regular aspirin use may reduce incidence of glioma. ''

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26894804/



He won't have more than 10 hours of lectures on vitamins
and nutrition in his entire five years of MBBS.


As my office manager mentioned years ago, particularly
when it comes to this subject :

'' Doctors know the least. ''

I have no idea about paracetamol and cancer. This is a first. Btw, paracetamol is actually bad for the liver. Although it's consider OTC, but usage of paracetamol actually deplete the liver's natural antioxidant glutathione. It take months to replenish. That's why if I have fever, I never take paracetamol unless really high. I will just go and sleep.

NAC is given with activated charcoal in paracetamol poisoning. Of course not at the same time as the charcoal will absorb it.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Mar 3 2016, 09:14 AM

Modulation of Cytokines in Cancer Patients by
Intravenous Ascorbate Therapy.

http://www.medscimonit.com/download/index/idArt/895368



The acute effect of high-dose intravenous vitamin C
and other nutrients on blood pressure: a cohort study.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26910646



Effects of High Doses of Vitamin C on
Cancer Patients in Singapore: Nine Cases.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26679971/

http://ict.sagepub.com/content/early/2015/...622010.full.pdf



Pharmacologic ascorbic acid concentrations selectively kill cancer
cells: Action as a pro-drug to deliver hydrogen peroxide to tissues.

http://www.pnas.org/content/102/38/13604.full



Mechanisms of Ascorbate-Induced Cytotoxicity in Pancreatic Cancer.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/41...ncreatic_Cancer


An unpaved journey of vitamin C in cancer treatment.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/27...ancer_treatment



Pharmacological ascorbate induces cytotoxicity in prostate
cancer cells through ATP depletion and induction of autophagy.

http://www.integratedhealthclinic.com/asse...20Depletion.pdf



Intravenous ascorbic acid protocol for cancer patients:
scientific rationale, pharmacology, and clinical experience.

http://functionalfoodscenter.net/files/73514619.pdf



Anti-cancer effect of pharmacologic ascorbate and its interaction
with supplementary parenteral glutathione in preclinical cancer models.

http://www.glutathioneexperts.com/pdfs/glu...l-usages-45.pdf



Pharmacological Ascorbate with Gemcitabine for the Control
of Metastatic and Node-Positive Pancreatic Cancer (PACMAN):
Results from a Phase I Clinical Trial.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3587047/



Pharmacologic doses of ascorbate act as a prooxidant and
decrease growth of aggressive tumor xenografts in mice.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2516281/



Lung Cancer Survival With Herbal Medicine and Vitamins in a
Whole-Systems Approach: Ten-Year Follow-up Data Analyzed.

http://thenaturedoctors.ca/wp-content/uplo...er-research.pdf



Vitamin C: A Concentration-Function Approach Yields
Pharmacology and Therapeutic Discoveries.

http://www.isdbweb.org/documents/file/4db17f55edbd0.pdf



Comment on “Pharmacologic ascorbate synergizes with
Gemcitabine in pre-clinical models of pancreatic cancer”
i.e. All we are saying is, give C a chance.

http://www.clinicofnaturalmedicine.com/upl..._C_a_Chance.pdf



Metabolomic alterations in human cancer cells
by vitamin C-induced oxidative stress.

http://www.nature.com/articles/srep13896



Intravenous Vitamin C (IVC).

http://www.oicc.ca/uploads/iv-vitamin-c-he...rofessional.pdf



The Effects of High Concentrations of Vitamin C on Cancer Cells.

http://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/5/9/3496/pdf



NCI Grantee Explores Vitamin C as Potential Cancer Therapy.

http://cam.cancer.gov/attachments/nci_cam_...spring_2013.pdf



Cytotoxicity of ascorbate to cancer cells: mathematical
modelling, mechanisms and clinical implications.

https://espace.library.uq.edu.au/view/UQ:34..._submission.pdf



Two Grams BID Is an Oral Dosage of Vitamin C to Reduce
the Risk of Recurrence of Superficial Bladder Carcinoma.

http://dx.doi.org/10.4236/jct.2015.62019



The statins have long been known to be cancer fighters.
( Does our consultant gasteroenterologist/hepatologist know this ? )

Simvastatin against cancer.

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-09-stat...mor-growth.html



Phenotype-based high-content chemical library screening
identifies statins as inhibitors of in vivo lymphangiogenesis.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmid/22949700/



Statins and the risk of cancer after heart transplantation.

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/126/4/440.long



Differential effects of lovastatin on cisplatin responses in normal
human mesothelial cells versus cancer cells: implication for therapy.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmid/23028957/





This post has been edited by Tham: Mar 13 2016, 03:41 PM

The NAC, along with alpha lipoic acid and artichoke extract
will protect the liver and help to replenish the glutathione.

NAC is a precursor to glutathione.

You can also take supplemental glutathione, but it's not very
well absorbed.


The cyarin content of artichokes is also a cancer fighter.



Long Term Exposure to Polyphenols of Artichoke (Cynara scolymus L.) Exerts Induction of Senescence Driven Growth Arrest in the MDA-MB231 Human Breast Cancer Cell Line.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmid/26180585/



Cynara scolymus affects malignant pleural mesothelioma
by promoting apoptosis and restraining invasion.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmid/26136339/



In vitro investigation of cytotoxic and apoptotic effects
of Cynara L. species in colorectal cancer cells.

http://www.apocpcontrol.org/paper_file/iss...ur%20Simsek.pdf




For fever, especially high ones, buy a few capsules of celecoxib.

Since they have only 200 mg ones here (Celebrex), pull open the
capsule and pour half into an empty capsule, or into some water/food.

You'll find that the fever drops rapidly.

Other NSAIDs can also be used to reduce fever.

I've been told indomethacin is very effective, but quite a strong drug
and can cause or aggravate gastritis, since it is an old nonselective drug.
Take with some Zantac, Tagamet or Controloc if you wish to try it.


I haven't tried meloxicam (Mobic) to reduce fever, but it's a cheaper
alternative but less selective than celecoxib. One of the first relatively
Cox-2 selective NSAIDS.


Tagamet is also a long known cancer fighter.



Repurposing drugs in oncology (ReDO) :
Cimetidine as an anti-cancer agent.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmid/25525463/



Cimetidine and Clobenpropit Attenuate Inflammation-Associated
Colorectal Carcinogenesis in Male ICR Mice.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26907350/




This post has been edited by Tham: Mar 3 2016, 10:52 AM

A fever is the body's natural response. I don't think we should try to stop it. It makes life harder for organism to multiply.

Anyway, thanks for the tip about using nsaid.

@Tham..again appreciate ur time to educate us..here are some questions if you have time:
- I read somewhere that for B17 to work, one needs to take Pancreatic Engzyme (some brand like Megazyme Forte w Enteric coating to pass the stomach safely)..this enzype would help B17(or Amygdaline) to penetrate the cancer cells and kill them...Do you know about that ?
- yet doctors say one needs intraveneous 9 grams (thats 3 vails/day) for 20 days to beat cancer.
- if so, where to find this enzyme in KL ? all selling general enzyme mix suppliments.
- Some published that by cutting sugar & carbs; Cancer will be starved and controlled..of course if one can live with the side effects. among which headakes and lack of energy.

This post has been edited by Greazlog: Mar 12 2016, 01:03 AM

Thanks guy with all the useful information about vitamin cure cancer. I have come to an article that normal antibiotic also can cure cancer.

http://www.sciencealert.com/this-is-big-co...of-cancer-cells

may be it helps

Doxcycline is indeed a very versatile antibiotic. It fights Alzheimer's,
and now they find it also fights cancer.

Doxycline, developed by Pfizer, used to cost $2.50 each here when
they were marketing it here as ''Vibramycin'' in the 80s, but now
there are many cheap generics.

The studies by Michael Lisanti's group from Manchester University
on doxycycline, chloramphenicol, azithromycin (Zithromax) and other
antibiotics against cancer are here.


Published only last year.


Apparently doxcycline targets cancer stem cells vide hedgehog, one
of the pathways.


Doxycycline and therapeutic targeting of the DNA damage
esponse in cancer cells: old drug, new purpose.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4580062/



Mitochondrial biogenesis is required for the anchorage-independent
survival and propagation of stem-like cancer cells.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmid/26087310



Doxycycline down-regulates DNA-PK and radiosensitizes tumor
initiating cells: Implications for more effective radiation therapy.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmid/26087309




Antibiotics that target mitochondria effectively eradicate
cancer stem cells, across multiple tumor types :
Treating cancer like an infectious disease.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmid/25625193/



Antibiotics for cancer therapy.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmid/25739117/

Targeting mitochondria metabolism for cancer therapy.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmid/25517383/



Tumor cell metabolism: cancer's Achilles' heel.

http://www.cell.com/cancer-cell/fulltext/S...%2808%2900160-8



The causes of cancer revisited: ‘mitochondrial malignancy’ and
ROS-induced oncogenic transformation - why mitochondria are
targets for cancer therapy.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/41...re_targets_for_



Mitochondria as therapeutic targets for cancer stem cells.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4369497/



Targeting mitochondria for cancer therapy.

http://www.syntapharma.com/documents/fulda.pdf

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/44...Discov_9447-464



Mitochondria and the evolutionary roots of cancer.

http://cancer-insights.asu.edu/wp-content/...Cancer-2013.pdf



Metabolic targets for cancer therapy.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/25..._cancer_therapy



Why mitochondria are excellent targets for cancer therapy.

http://www.linkos.cz/files/klinicka-onkologie/175/4150.pdf



Mitochondria in cancer: at the crossroads of life and death.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmid/21801601/



Mitochondria in cancer.

http://www.nature.com/onc/journal/v25/n34/full/1209589a.html



Anticancer Drugs Targeting the Mitochondrial Electron Transport Chain.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/51...Transport_Chain



The Role of Mitochondria in Cancer and Other Chronic Diseases.

https://riordanclinic.org/wp-content/upload...nd-cancer-1.pdf

Wobenzym, serratiopeptidase and nattokinase are the common
enzymes which have been used in cancer.

You can get them at Iherb.


This combine serrapeptase and nattokinase.

http://my.iherb.com/Doctor-s-Best-Best-Nat...ggie-Caps/50502

You can also buy serrapeptase here, but they have only 5 mg tabs.



http://www.cancerfightingstrategies.com/en...for-cancer.html

http://enzymetherapies.com/9/serrapeptase/...ase-and-cancer/



Here's some local laetrile suppliers.

http://www.cafemlm.com/kesihatan-dan-anda/...dan-kanser.html

http://cancer-b17.blogspot.my/p/therapies-...-metabolic.html





This post has been edited by Tham: Mar 17 2016, 09:21 AM

Many thanks again. BTW:local suppliers targeting 500% profit margin:)

Intravenous vitamin C is field of orthomolecular medicine.

People like @Py80 would blink their eyes if you ask if they have
heard of it.


http://orthomolecular.org/

http://www.orthomed.org/

https://www.orthomolecularhealth.com/nutrients/

https://www.csom.ca/


The term ''orthomolecular'' was started by Linus Pauling.

Two of its pioneers were Richard Kunin and the late Abram Hoffer,
the Canadian physician and psychiatrist.

I have corresponded with both.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Kunin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abram_Hoffer

Abram Hoffer was famed for using megadoses on niacin in shizophrenia.


My father, who had to struggle getting up from his chair with
osteoarthritis, easily got up without effort after just a couple of packs
of Richard Kunin's product here.

http://www.olaloa.com/ola-loa-repair-bone-...supplement.html


I wrote to Richard Kunin in 1986, when @Py80 was still playing marbles
in kindergarten.

I still keep his book, ''Mega Nutrition'' on my office shelves.

http://www.abebooks.com/9780070356399/Mega...-0070356394/plp

I also corresponded with Abram Hoffer in 1996, enquiring about his
protocol for a lady friend with lung adenocarcinoma in one of our
associated offices in Ipoh.


The hypnotic psychologist who posts at ''Zeropoint9'' here, Hiro Koo,
is also familiar with orthomolecular psychiatry.

http://www.newmindcentre.com/2014/08/10-nu...that-cause.html



This looks like the website of local practitioners of this field.

One of them is Steve Yap. I think Jessie Yap is his wife.

http://www.anmp.org.my/board.html


Here's their listing. I believe they are familiar with the IV C prototol.
You can contact them if you wish to know more or try it out for cancer
and other conditons.

http://orthomolecular.org/resources/pract.shtml#mal





This post has been edited by Tham: Mar 17 2016, 11:08 AM

And yet cancer is still the Number 1 killer disease in the world... If this is soooo true, all those cancer research centres dah bungkus.

With language like ''bungkus'', one can easily guess your age, mentality
and educational background.

In that case, you would do well to stay put with ''cut, burn and poison'',
and nothing else, when you are unfortunate enough to be struck down
with this disease on that fateful day.

I'm sure you know your chances with this and only option.

Haha... and you preach like an uneducated snob.

Apart from 'HAHA'', so what do you know about cancer that
makes you ''educated'' and qualified to post here ?

Tell me, without referring to Google or Wikipedia, what you
know about the following :


p53
p21
p27
RAS
miRNAs
mTOR
Akt
PI3K
Bax
Bcl-2
Caspase 3
Caspase 9
PPARGamma
NFKappaB
IL-1beta
IL-2
IL-6
IL-10
TNF-alpha


If you can't (and I am quite confident of that), that would
make you nothing more than a typical troll.

As Marina Mahathir emphasized :

'' Hiding behind self-proclaimed piety, they shout their
indignation with name-calling, insults and insinuations.

You have to pity the Malaysian troll. What poor unfulfilled lives
do they lead that the only joy they can get has to come from
making someone else miserable?

How boring are their lives that someone else’s hard-earned
achievement is taken as an offence to their own suspect morals ? ''

http://musingwithmarinamahathir.blogspot.m...-out-there.html