Example, A study engineering and B no between he didn't attend classes. So, shouldn't we expect A to understand basic engineering subject better than B? Thats my logic.

A goes to churches without fail while B no. Shouldn't we expect A to have at least know some basic knowledge of how to carry oneself or 'the way of life' to be a Christian. I am not talking about able to recite the whole book of Matthew or John for that matter.

Well, like I said 'I don't think he is looking up for anyone as a role model' and not even me.

Let me get this straight ok. I am not asking for those so call pious christian to be perfect or anyone else to be perfect. No one is perfect. But do 'DO onto others what you want other to do upon you' is my motto here.

I  notice that usually, usually those who profess/present themselves to be 'close' to God are the one who are most 'disgraceful' in a sense. They seems to think that what they do or act are in God's approval. The same goes to those practicing other religion too.

And THIS 'These we should be forgiving but you if hold them tight with high expectation THEN you need to check yourself if you qualify to judge them, whether your own log in the eye has been taken out.' is something which I know will be said sooner or later.

Yes, yes, and yes, we are not perfect but how do you differentiate between a comment and a 'judgement'? I know what God said about judging others. In life, we make decision by 'judging', don't we not? 'Judging' in a good way. There's no progress without good judgement.

I don't go to church for donkey years now but I am not a backslider and I am always being criticized by some so called pious christian for not going to church (not saying you).

Acknowledge THAT is the problem and issue needed to be address and not kill the messenger by saying 'if hold them tight with high expectation THEN you need to check yourself if you qualify to judge them, whether your own log in the eye has been taken out.'

So, the bottom line is, pastors should take note and do the necessary to make churches the true house of God.

I understand. The thing is, being able to understand and being able to perform are two different thing. And to me, the fundamental idea is that everyone learns until the day one dies. So, the subject A who goes to church every week could have performed more things "Christian-like" but that is also depending on how quickly the person learns, how much one has to overcome current "mistakes" and practice Christian ways of doing things, and ultimately, no one is free from committing err.
Even though I do sense a certain "hypocrisy" in what a hypothetical subject A could have done, I will try to adjust my perception to be more forgiving. After all, it's all about how we carry ourselves, right?

You sure? Most kids do look up to their dad, it's a paternal thing.

Yes not saying you're wrong to expect Church leaders to live up to the standard but if you can just calm down and understand what I'm trying to say, it's a duality situation.

On one hand you can expect but at the same time, as a christian, you exhibit grace as well.

Comment and Judging? I think Luke is quite clear.

Luke 6:37 (NIV)
"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

That is related to

John 8:7 (NIV)
When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her."

Hihihi, I am calm. Believed me.

Sorry to say this but it does not look like that (Luke) addresses the question - comment and judging.

I would say those quote are frequently being misused.

And I forgot to mentioned that its forgiven and we move on, really.

UPdate: and I forgot to mentioned your 1st point. Well not looking up to me in this thing is what I am saying. Those years that he attended church willingly, I wasn't even gone to one.

I think all kids do look up to their dad whether for the good or bad and whether we want to acknowledge or not. Children naturally do emulate and become some part of what the parent is.

Will talk to you about the judging part later this evening.

I concur to a certain extent. Whether the dad is a positive or negative role model, it does have a certain impact on children.

I think all kids do look up to their dad whether for the good or bad and whether we want to acknowledge or not. Children naturally do emulate and become some part of what the parent is.

Will talk to you about the judging part later this evening.

So, both of you are saying I am the causes for my son not attending church ? Yes? NO?

He knows I am still believed in God. and he called himself an atheist. So what does that leave both of you?

Hey hey chill man. I'm not blaming you. It's not simply hey dad's not going to church. I'll not go too. I did not follow the previous conversations closely. Did u talk to him closely about his pullout from going?

So, both of you are saying I am the causes for my son not attending church ? Yes? NO?

He knows I am still believed in God. and he called himself an atheist. So what does that leave both of you?

I am chill man. 

How else do you want a sensible reply to be?

Why can't you guy just look into what I have just said/commented. Its not for the good of me. Its for our believe sake. Or just too afraid to confront the issue?

Please, forgive but to turn another cheek is 2 different thing you know.

Yeah you're right. It's complicated.
The church I went, it stressed heavily on building family as the nucleus of Christianity. Or at least I interpreted what the pastor said that way. I agree. Seems like Mr. Son isn't that much influenced by you (or at least in terms of religious beliefs).

Anyway, is your relationship with him tight?

yeap very true sadly, racial hatred become wide spread due to politics

Keep Praying, Don't give up.

It is the Power of God'S Salvation for those who believe in God.

The world cannot understanding and neither can see this privilege.

You see, the problem is with the people. They fail to understand that whatever they said or do, they are bearing witness as children of God. Some of them (not teen mind you but older person) said thing that hurt his feeling.

No, my son is not the sensitive type. He can take 'joke' with stride. The good point about my son is I find he is a very polite person. He greet people, instantly even when he sees neigbour who are few doors away who hardly can hear him!

Of course he had his fair share of down side too. You know, young man, kind of ego but usually not to those who is not close.

One of the main reason I myself did not attend churches is because of almost the same reason but I did not let him know. Hypocrisy. Now before you go telling me do not judge people, this is the most glaring problem most of the people who attended churches today are. And the reason many would be believer being turn off from accepting God.

My only word of advise I can give him is you cannot burn the whole forest just because of a few bad trees.

That is related to

John 8:7 (NIV)
When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her."

I think the problem is that many christians forgotten we're all represented as "her" in that incident.

So, both of you are saying I am the causes for my son not attending church ? Yes? NO?

He knows I am still believed in God. and he called himself an atheist. So what does that leave both of you?

I think all kids do look up to their dad whether for the good or bad and whether we want to acknowledge or not. Children naturally do emulate and become some part of what the parent is.

Will talk to you about the judging part later this evening.

I think I have similar issue like your son. hehe...

But aside from pride and ego, I learned to ignore those type of people in church. I focused on God because Men are just hypocritical.

You can be an encouragement to him, something that can make him think like, Hey Dad I know there are people who may have offended you but you still go to Church regardless...hence when you talk about not burning the whole forest despite a few bad trees is shown in what you've said.

As Fathers we are called to lead in the family, that's our role. So I encourage you, go to Church not solely because of people but because of God.

I think i'll skip talking about judging tonight.