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 LYN Christian Fellowship V11 (Group), ALL about Jesus Christ.

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Blindspot61
post Feb 23 2016, 12:01 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Feb 19 2016, 08:29 AM)
Your Faith is the Title Deed to claim what you have prayed to God.
Non Believers all have the stigma of Sin and thus has this resistance & sometime hatred towards God.

Unless someone pray for God to work in their life to be open, they cannot receive the Holy Spirit.

You MUST pray for your family, it's not an option.
*
I heard this many a time. Some said, Oh God hasn't open his eyes yet or God haven't touch him yet.

So theoretically, can one say, he is a non-believer bcos God haven't touch him or open his heart? So no fault of theirs?

I am always confuse on this one. I am a believer because I have experienced the miracle of God.

My son used to go to church at one point and I was kind of surprise and proud of him too.

It started many years ago when 1 of this friend invited him. So one day he decided to go and meet his friend there.

The funny thing is since there's a couple of church there, he went to the different church that was attended by this friend and he continue attending the same church for, I would say, a couple of years.

Then for some reason, he stopped and he begin to view Christian negatively and in a bad light.

Honestly, some of his point I do kind of agreed with him and I did advise him that those are not the fault of God but human itself but to no avail.

We use to argue alot on this matter and I came to realise that I need to back down else its going to make him hate Christian more.

So I am waiting for him to go back to God before its too late.

I don't want to force my 2 kids to accept God like other religion do.

I myself used to attend churches during my teen and after I hd moved from place to place I kind of stop because I just can't find the right one.

This post has been edited by Blindspot61: Feb 23 2016, 12:07 PM
Blindspot61
post Feb 23 2016, 12:39 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Feb 23 2016, 12:19 PM)
What did your son say that causes him to view Christianity negatively and how often do you pray for him?
*
You see, the problem is with the people. They fail to understand that whatever they said or do, they are bearing witness as children of God. Some of them (not teen mind you but older person) said thing that hurt his feeling.

No, my son is not the sensitive type. He can take 'joke' with stride. The good point about my son is I find he is a very polite person. He greet people, instantly even when he sees neigbour who are few doors away who hardly can hear him!

Of course he had his fair share of down side too. You know, young man, kind of ego but usually not to those who is not close.

One of the main reason I myself did not attend churches is because of almost the same reason but I did not let him know. Hypocrisy. Now before you go telling me do not judge people, this is the most glaring problem most of the people who attended churches today are. And the reason many would be believer being turn off from accepting God.

My only word of advise I can give him is you cannot burn the whole forest just because of a few bad trees.

This post has been edited by Blindspot61: Feb 23 2016, 02:37 PM
Blindspot61
post Feb 23 2016, 02:01 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Feb 23 2016, 12:58 PM)
Yes every christians are bearing as christ's representative, true but even Paul made this astounding statement that helped me (in understanding) to properly divide 
how to view Church and Christians.

Philippians 3:8 (NIV) - What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ.

A Pastor, Deacon, whichever christian can only go so far to be representative of who Christ is but They cannot be our very Lord Jesus Christ, no matter what.
As Christians we still need to look to Christ instead of looking to people as role model in Church and especially in Church!

And that is the key difference in helping us to stay in Church or stay away from Church.  And I think I've said before prayer for your family is not an option, you have to pray everyday. And I think it's worth repeating this, if you want to see change then get on your knees and pray aggressively because that is what help us connect to God everyday.

With that being said; I mean consider the Apostles, even they admonished the church of that time not to look to them but to Christ.

Acts 14:15 (NIV) - "Friends, why are you doing this? We too are only human, like you. We are bringing you good news, telling you to turn from these worthless things to the living God, who made the heavens and the earth and the sea and everything in them.

Acts 10:26 (NIV) - But Peter made him get up. "Stand up," he said, "I am only a man myself."
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Well, I don't think he is looking up for anyone as a role model.

I strongly believe those who are so pious as to attend churches without fail should at least 'check' on themselves constantly which is very important for Christianity to be accepted by new believer.

My take. You don't go round telling non-believer how good your God is without asking. You should bear witness to others how good your God is and let them ask you about it.

My only hope is that in time to come when he is more mature he will go back to God.


Blindspot61
post Feb 23 2016, 03:57 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Feb 23 2016, 02:57 PM)
Maybe he's looking up to you as one. If you don't go, he may also find it not much of a reason to go.

Yes every Christian should check themselves but I can confidently tell you, none of them are perfect, no one is. In this area we should all exhibit grace and be forgiving because we must remember even yourself and myself we're not perfect, we need as much grace as they do.

I'm not talking about people who on purpose exhibit contradictory lifestyle but people who desire change, understand the gospel but still on a journey with God may have make mistake at times. These we should be forgiving but you if hold them tight with high expectation THEN you need to check yourself if you qualify to judge them, whether your own log in the eye has been taken out.
*
Well, like I said 'I don't think he is looking up for anyone as a role model' and not even me.

Let me get this straight ok. I am not asking for those so call pious christian to be perfect or anyone else to be perfect. No one is perfect. But do 'DO onto others what you want other to do upon you' is my motto here.

I notice that usually, usually those who profess/present themselves to be 'close' to God are the one who are most 'disgraceful' in a sense. They seems to think that what they do or act are in God's approval. The same goes to those practicing other religion too.

And THIS 'These we should be forgiving but you if hold them tight with high expectation THEN you need to check yourself if you qualify to judge them, whether your own log in the eye has been taken out.' is something which I know will be said sooner or later.

Yes, yes, and yes, we are not perfect but how do you differentiate between a comment and a 'judgement'? I know what God said about judging others. In life, we make decision by 'judging', don't we not? 'Judging' in a good way. There's no progress without good judgement.

I don't go to church for donkey years now but I am not a backslider and I am always being criticized by some so called pious christian for not going to church (not saying you).

Acknowledge THAT is the problem and issue needed to be address and not kill the messenger by saying 'if hold them tight with high expectation THEN you need to check yourself if you qualify to judge them, whether your own log in the eye has been taken out.'

So, the bottom line is, pastors should take note and do the necessary to make churches the true house of God.
Blindspot61
post Feb 23 2016, 04:27 PM

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QUOTE(phillip88 @ Feb 23 2016, 03:17 PM)
I guess somehow this could be attribute to some funny reason that when people are Christian, they are automatically associated with being 100% Christian or Christ-like but in fact like all other religions, Christians are always on the journey of learning.
Another reason is probably because of the contradiction that was said. They said such and such are sins, but they themselves did those and still dare to condemn others. I guess this is why people are irked.

Anyway, I learnt a lot from conversations here  nod.gif
*
Example, A study engineering and B no between he didn't attend classes. So, shouldn't we expect A to understand basic engineering subject better than B? Thats my logic.

A goes to churches without fail while B no. Shouldn't we expect A to have at least know some basic knowledge of how to carry oneself or 'the way of life' to be a Christian. I am not talking about able to recite the whole book of Matthew or John for that matter.


Blindspot61
post Feb 23 2016, 04:37 PM

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QUOTE(phillip88 @ Feb 23 2016, 04:33 PM)
I understand. The thing is, being able to understand and being able to perform are two different thing. And to me, the fundamental idea is that everyone learns until the day one dies. So, the subject A who goes to church every week could have performed more things "Christian-like" but that is also depending on how quickly the person learns, how much one has to overcome current "mistakes" and practice Christian ways of doing things, and ultimately, no one is free from committing err.
Even though I do sense a certain "hypocrisy" in what a hypothetical subject A could have done, I will try to adjust my perception to be more forgiving. After all, it's all about how we carry ourselves, right?
*
Yes. Sadly churches now a day does not emphasis this enough.
Blindspot61
post Feb 23 2016, 04:42 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Feb 23 2016, 04:34 PM)
You sure? Most kids do look up to their dad, it's a paternal thing.

Yes not saying you're wrong to expect Church leaders to live up to the standard but if you can just calm down and understand what I'm trying to say, it's a duality situation.

On one hand you can expect but at the same time, as a christian, you exhibit grace as well.

Comment and Judging? I think Luke is quite clear.

Luke 6:37 (NIV)
"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

That is related to

John 8:7 (NIV)
When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her."
*
Hihihi, I am calm. Believed me.

Sorry to say this but it does not look like that (Luke) addresses the question - comment and judging.

I would say those quote are frequently being misused.

And I forgot to mentioned that its forgiven and we move on, really.

UPdate: and I forgot to mentioned your 1st point. Well not looking up to me in this thing is what I am saying. Those years that he attended church willingly, I wasn't even gone to one.

This post has been edited by Blindspot61: Feb 23 2016, 04:47 PM
Blindspot61
post Feb 23 2016, 05:36 PM

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QUOTE(phillip88 @ Feb 23 2016, 05:19 PM)
I concur to a certain extent. Whether the dad is a positive or negative role model, it does have a certain impact on children.
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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Feb 23 2016, 05:16 PM)
I think all kids do look up to their dad whether for the good or bad and whether we want to acknowledge or not. Children naturally do emulate and become some part of what the parent is.

Will talk to you about the judging part later this evening.
*
So, both of you are saying I am the causes for my son not attending church ? Yes? NO?

He knows I am still believed in God. and he called himself an atheist. So what does that leave both of you?

This post has been edited by Blindspot61: Feb 23 2016, 05:38 PM
Blindspot61
post Feb 23 2016, 06:02 PM

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QUOTE(phillip88 @ Feb 23 2016, 05:40 PM)
Hey hey chill man. I'm not blaming you. It's not simply hey dad's not going to church. I'll not go too. I did not follow the previous conversations closely. Did u talk to him closely about his pullout from going?
*
I am chill man. laugh.gif

How else do you want a sensible reply to be?

Why can't you guy just look into what I have just said/commented. Its not for the good of me. Its for our believe sake. Or just too afraid to confront the issue?

Please, forgive but to turn another cheek is 2 different thing you know.




Blindspot61
post Feb 23 2016, 06:46 PM

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QUOTE(phillip88 @ Feb 23 2016, 06:21 PM)
Yeah you're right. It's complicated.
The church I went, it stressed heavily on building family as the nucleus of Christianity. Or at least I interpreted what the pastor said that way. I agree. Seems like Mr. Son isn't that much influenced by you (or at least in terms of religious beliefs).

Anyway, is your relationship with him tight?
*
Appreciate if you start reading from page 13 my 1st post #275. Thank you

Oops sorry, make that page 14

This post has been edited by Blindspot61: Feb 23 2016, 07:06 PM
Blindspot61
post Feb 23 2016, 08:23 PM

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QUOTE(tinarhian @ Feb 23 2016, 08:09 PM)
I think I have similar issue like your son. hehe...

But aside from pride and ego, I learned to ignore those type of people in church. I focused on God because Men are just hypocritical.
*
Wish my son had the same mentality as yours.

It would not bothered much if its those teen that he is having problem with but it seems to be those elder!

He must have felt disillusioned with what's going on and coming from people who is supposed to know their 'responsibility' as a christian.

I had my fair share of what he had gone thru too during my teen year or rather my church going days.
Blindspot61
post Feb 23 2016, 08:28 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Feb 23 2016, 08:16 PM)
You can be an encouragement to him, something that can make him think like, Hey Dad I know there are people who may have offended you but you still go to Church regardless...hence when you talk about not burning the whole forest despite a few bad trees is shown in what you've said.

As Fathers we are called to lead in the family, that's our role. So I encourage you, go to Church not solely because of people but because of God.

I think i'll skip talking about judging tonight.
*
My father and mother go separate way when I was only a couple of months old. I am now just passed my 32nd married anniversary with my wife. Does my parent looks like a role model for me to you?

This post has been edited by Blindspot61: Feb 23 2016, 08:29 PM
Blindspot61
post Feb 23 2016, 08:32 PM

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QUOTE(tinarhian @ Feb 23 2016, 08:28 PM)
Well...I had a rebellious upbringing. My parents would had me in detention most of the time.  brows.gif

I had "minor" issues with church members as well. Nothing that is too complicated nor serious. It seems that Malaysians don't understand my culture. hehe...

How old is your son now? He'll probably grow out of that "phase" later on. Like I did. It's just a phase dude.
*
Just passed 22nd last year (Nov).

Hopefully (he grow out of that phase) soon.

I am happy for your parent. rclxms.gif
Blindspot61
post Feb 23 2016, 08:53 PM

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QUOTE(phillip88 @ Feb 23 2016, 08:41 PM)
Finished catching up. Thanks for sharing your story.
About the role model thing, it acts both ways. Dad was born in quite a chaotic family. Gamblers, gamblers everywhere. Each has wives. But my dad held on to his own. He doesn't wanna be like the rest of the siblings (to be accurate, his sister is also the better of the bunch). So, to each his own I would say. But if we talk about influence, yes, to some extent you do influence your son. But not totally, especially teenagers (who in anecdote belief are more susceptible to peer influence).

Forget about the role model thing, I'm in no position to give you a better advice than the rest of us here. If you don't mind, I will add one more thing: This period of time will pass. Pray hard to God that He will lead him through his journey of self-finding. Who knows, the right church for him might be somewhere else, and he could fit there better? (This happens to me, somehow). I'm always against Christian, to be fair, because of certain individuals around me who happen to be (in my opinion)... ah, spare me the cursing. I learn a lot from their influence (or negatively reacted) by studying through online sources and reading the bible. Ended up having many unanswered questions, but found a church which could open my eyes (or ears) (thank God for so far so good). So, hopefully your son will come across some place where he belongs.
*
But if we talk about influence, yes, to some extent you do influence your son. But not totally, especially teenagers (who in anecdote belief are more susceptible to peer influence).


Honestly, I used to think that way too, i.e. parent's influence on their children. But my life proof its not entirely true. That's just general perception when there's no other explanation to put forth. Or maybe it's just negligible to say the least.

Blindspot61
post Feb 23 2016, 08:54 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Feb 23 2016, 08:47 PM)
Brother, my own dad is not a good role model but that doesn't mean I can't be one to my own kid.
*
Hello, my point is 'Stop putting the blame on me while turn the other cheek on the obvious'.
Blindspot61
post Feb 23 2016, 08:59 PM

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QUOTE(tinarhian @ Feb 23 2016, 08:49 PM)
Haha...I'm just a bit older than your son.

Great parents are priceless in this world. No gold, jewelry, LV bags can substitute that.  thumbup.gif
*
Yeah. true.

Anyway, those things happen quite sometime ago. One topic leads to another. .
Blindspot61
post Feb 23 2016, 09:25 PM

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Kind of a noob here but what is gg.com?
Blindspot61
post Feb 23 2016, 09:45 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Feb 23 2016, 09:29 PM)
QUOTE(tinarhian @ Feb 23 2016, 09:32 PM)
Dang. u must be as old as my uncle.  tongue.gif

No offense dude.
*
I know gg stands for good game. Used to send that but gg.com?

Yeah. I am 50+ years old! And I play War Thunder!
Blindspot61
post Feb 23 2016, 10:04 PM

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QUOTE(tinarhian @ Feb 23 2016, 09:58 PM)
Pray hard dude.

Or just torrent.  tongue.gif
*
Yeah, Pray hard.

Blindspot61
post Feb 23 2016, 10:06 PM

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QUOTE(tinarhian @ Feb 23 2016, 09:53 PM)
Wow! Cool dude.  notworthy.gif

And my mum still sucks at Candy crush. What a noob..
Das ist cool.

The Noah movie really sucks man.

Wait will they show it in Malaysia?  icon_idea.gif
*
Maybe she can do better in War Thunder! And No, I don't get any commission for getting people to play. sad.gif

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