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 Fundsupermart.com v11, Grexit or not, Europe will sail on...

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j.passing.by
post Jul 11 2015, 11:23 PM

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QUOTE(yklooi @ Jul 11 2015, 05:03 PM)
rclxms.gif  notworthy.gif
let's say....(from the 1st part your illustration).

Initial capital = RM 10,000.00

After two years, portfolio = 14,000.00 = ROI 40%.

IRR or CAGR =/= 20% = 18.32% p.a.

If the IRR dropped by half (18.32/2=9.16%), what is the % of ROI drops?

Kopi Tarik on the way....
*
If I may add, it is sort of a trick question; by asking how would the ROI drop in comparison to the IRR.

IRR or CAGR has the element of time, while ROI has not. The ROI can remain the same, and the IRR will decrease as time moves forward.

For example:
If IRR is 9.16% p.a., and the corresponding end period value (in 2 years) is RM 11,915.00. The ROI is 19.15%

And if the ROI is still RM1,915 or 19.15% at the end of 3 years, the IRR is 6.01%
And if the ROI is still RM1,915 or 19.15% at the end of 4 years, the IRR is 4.48%

In other words, if you pull out of an investment and keep the profits under your bed, you locked in the ROI but not the IRR. hmm.gif

idyllrain
post Jul 12 2015, 12:57 AM

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If anyone's interested, I've added the following code in polarzbearz IRR Excel sheet to obtain the latest NAV prices from FSM with just one click (I attached the macro to a button).

CODE
Sub GetFundPrices()
   Set WS = Worksheets("Investment Details")
   Set htm = CreateObject("htmlFile")
   Set XML = CreateObject("msxml2.xmlhttp")
   
   Dim i As Long
   Dim lastRow As Long
   lastRow = WS.Range("C:C").Find(What:="*exit*", LookIn:=xlValues).Row

   'From first row all the way to the row containing the value *exit*'
   For i = 1 To lastRow
       'If this row is a group header row (Column A has a value of 1)'
       If WS.Cells(i, 1).Value = "1" Then
           Dim fundName As String

           'Get the fund code'
           fundName = WS.Cells(i, 3).Value
       
           'Download the correct price list'
           XML.Open "GET", "http://www.fundsupermart.com.my/main/fundinfo/dailyPricesHistory.tpl?id=" & fundName, False
           XML.send
           If XML.ReadyState = 4 And XML.Status = 200 Then
               htm.body.innerHTML = XML.responsetext

               On Error GoTo ErrHandler:
                   'Get all 4 cells in the first row of data'
                   Set FirstRow = htm.getElementsByTagName("tr")(2).Children
                   
                   'Update date value from 4th table cell of first row'
                   WS.Cells(i, 4).Value = FirstRow(3).innerText
                   
                   'Update NAV value from the DIV element in the 3rd table cell of first row'
                   WS.Cells(i, 9).Value = FirstRow(2).FirstChild().innerText
           End If
       End If
   Next i

   Exit Sub

ErrHandler:
   MsgBox ("Cannot load data. Either the FSM Code is incorrect or FundSuperMart is down.")
End Sub


As this code relies on FSM's price list pages, if there's any changes to that in the future, this code will break. The only modifications done on the table was changing Column C into the Fund Codes used at FundSuperMart (You can get these from the URL: http://www.fundsupermart.com.my/main/fundi...do?sedolnumber=MYKNGGF) and adding the value "*exit*" into the final row of Column C. Like this:
user posted image

Also, the formula for the Units calculation in Column M will sometimes result in an amount that doesn't reflect the value shown on FSM's website as the rounding order is different.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

QUOTE
Edit 12/7: Testing by polarzbearz reveals that my modification to the rounding formula is still not the formula that FSM uses [ Link to post ]


This post has been edited by idyllrain: Jul 12 2015, 05:45 PM
SUSyklooi
post Jul 12 2015, 07:11 AM

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QUOTE(j.passing.by @ Jul 11 2015, 11:23 PM)
If I may add, it is sort of a trick question; by asking how would the ROI drop in comparison to the IRR.

IRR or CAGR has the element of time, while ROI has not. The ROI can remain the same, and the IRR will decrease as time moves forward.

For example:
If IRR is 9.16% p.a., and the corresponding end period value (in 2 years) is RM 11,915.00. The ROI is 19.15%

And if the ROI is still RM1,915 or 19.15% at the end of 3 years, the IRR is 6.01%
And if the ROI is still RM1,915 or 19.15% at the end of 4 years, the IRR is 4.48%

In other words, if you pull out of an investment and keep the profits under your bed, you locked in the ROI but not the IRR.  hmm.gif
*
hmm.gif rclxms.gif yes,...good illustration. notworthy.gif

my question is, if someone said, that his China fund's IRR dropped from 20%+ to IRR 10%
(so the time is I think is about 3 weeks different)....just wondering how much did his fund's ROI dropped in %.
(yes, I know Fund Returns tabs in the FSM can do that.....jus that it did not show that much....it just showed -6.5%.)
hmm.gif now come to think of it,...will his regular top ups of < 12 months time frame played a role in the big different of variance of IRR and ROI?

This post has been edited by yklooi: Jul 12 2015, 08:18 AM
SUSyklooi
post Jul 12 2015, 07:19 AM

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QUOTE(idyllrain @ Jul 12 2015, 12:57 AM)
If anyone's interested, I've added the following code in polarzbearz IRR Excel sheet to obtain the latest NAV prices from FSM with just one click (I attached the macro to a button).
*
rclxms.gif rclxms.gif notworthy.gif Appreciated your contribution....that would really be VERY useful
hmm.gif will there be any other (indirectly linked) complication?
polarzbearz...could you check it out and test it out?
if ok,...then Please update it in the "mastercopy" and put it up so that it could be downloaded?

Some people says "GOD works in mysterious ways"
idyllrain 1st post, New member (but joined Apr 2008?)...great contribution!!
hmm.gif (just wondering who you really are).... biggrin.gif
Thanks anyway.. notworthy.gif

This post has been edited by yklooi: Jul 12 2015, 07:39 AM
SUSyklooi
post Jul 12 2015, 07:29 AM

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QUOTE(David83 @ Jul 11 2015, 10:51 PM)
Why failed?

Any reason? Uncle got privileged membership! whistling.gif
*
yes,..special priviledged membership to a RM 5 car park special! biggrin.gif
SUSDavid83
post Jul 12 2015, 07:39 AM

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QUOTE(yklooi @ Jul 12 2015, 07:29 AM)
yes,..special priviledged membership to a RM 5 car park special!  biggrin.gif
*

Venue is not at Wawasan University? Not free parking?
SUSyklooi
post Jul 12 2015, 07:44 AM

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QUOTE(David83 @ Jul 12 2015, 07:39 AM)
Venue is not at Wawasan University? Not free parking?
*
was for the many times....
But was told by the guards that now have to pay RM5.
I think it is "sendiri makan" one...so I left....used the RM5 go sendiri makan a bowl of prawn mee..
hmm.gif if I pay RM 5 and go in...and got tips...maybe can eat abalone mee. ... doh.gif ohmy.gif
SUSDavid83
post Jul 12 2015, 07:56 AM

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QUOTE(yklooi @ Jul 12 2015, 07:44 AM)
was for the many times....
But was told by the guards that now have to pay RM5.
I think it is "sendiri makan" one...so I left....used the RM5 go sendiri makan a bowl of prawn mee..
hmm.gif if I pay RM 5 and go in...and got tips...maybe can eat abalone mee. ...  doh.gif  ohmy.gif
*
Where you tried to park?

Last time I parked at multi level car park.

Are you trying to park at those lots outside the building? LOL
SUSyklooi
post Jul 12 2015, 08:00 AM

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QUOTE(David83 @ Jul 12 2015, 07:56 AM)
Where you tried to park?

Last time I parked at multi level car park.

Are you trying to park at those lots outside the building? LOL
*
The guards standing in the front of the entrance just after the turn in from the main road....no chance to enter the multistory carpark that I used to
SUSDavid83
post Jul 12 2015, 08:01 AM

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QUOTE(yklooi @ Jul 12 2015, 08:00 AM)
The guards standing in the front of the entrance just after the turn in from the main road....no chance to enter the multistory carpark that I used to
*
Have you send an email to FSM for complaint or clarification?
SUSyklooi
post Jul 12 2015, 08:06 AM

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QUOTE(David83 @ Jul 12 2015, 08:01 AM)
Have you send an email to FSM for complaint or clarification?
*
yes,...
Btw,....the KL seminar's carpark also have to Pay RM 5 per entry too?
wil-i-am
post Jul 12 2015, 08:28 AM

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QUOTE(yklooi @ Jul 12 2015, 07:44 AM)
was for the many times....
But was told by the guards that now have to pay RM5.
I think it is "sendiri makan" one...so I left....used the RM5 go sendiri makan a bowl of prawn mee..
hmm.gif if I pay RM 5 and go in...and got tips...maybe can eat abalone mee. ...  doh.gif  ohmy.gif
*
Perhaps u consider motorbike next time hmm.gif
SUSyklooi
post Jul 12 2015, 08:36 AM

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QUOTE(wil-i-am @ Jul 12 2015, 08:28 AM)
Perhaps u consider motorbike next time  hmm.gif
*
bike not available...will try taxi the next time tongue.gif
xuzen
post Jul 12 2015, 11:04 AM

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QUOTE(j.passing.by @ Jul 11 2015, 11:23 PM)
If I may add, it is sort of a trick question; by asking how would the ROI drop in comparison to the IRR.

IRR or CAGR has the element of time, while ROI has not. The ROI can remain the same, and the IRR will decrease as time moves forward.

For example:
If IRR is 9.16% p.a., and the corresponding end period value (in 2 years) is RM 11,915.00. The ROI is 19.15%

And if the ROI is still RM1,915 or 19.15% at the end of 3 years, the IRR is 6.01%
And if the ROI is still RM1,915 or 19.15% at the end of 4 years, the IRR is 4.48%

In other words, if you pull out of an investment and keep the profits under your bed, you locked in the ROI but not the IRR.  hmm.gif
*
Awesome explanation J.passing.by! rclxms.gif rclxms.gif rclxms.gif

Xuzen
polarzbearz
post Jul 12 2015, 01:23 PM

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QUOTE(idyllrain @ Jul 12 2015, 12:57 AM)
If anyone's interested, I've added the following code in polarzbearz IRR Excel sheet to obtain the latest NAV prices from FSM with just one click (I attached the macro to a button).

CODE
Sub GetFundPrices()
   Set WS = Worksheets("Investment Details")
   Set htm = CreateObject("htmlFile")
   Set XML = CreateObject("msxml2.xmlhttp")
   
   Dim i As Long
   Dim lastRow As Long
   lastRow = WS.Range("C:C").Find(What:="*exit*", LookIn:=xlValues).Row

   'From first row all the way to the row containing the value *exit*'
   For i = 1 To lastRow
       'If this row is a group header row (Column A has a value of 1)'
       If WS.Cells(i, 1).Value = "1" Then
           Dim fundName As String

           'Get the fund code'
           fundName = WS.Cells(i, 3).Value
       
           'Download the correct price list'
           XML.Open "GET", "http://www.fundsupermart.com.my/main/fundinfo/dailyPricesHistory.tpl?id=" & fundName, False
           XML.send
           If XML.ReadyState = 4 And XML.Status = 200 Then
               htm.body.innerHTML = XML.responsetext

               On Error GoTo ErrHandler:
                   'Get all 4 cells in the first row of data'
                   Set FirstRow = htm.getElementsByTagName("tr")(2).Children
                   
                   'Update date value from 4th table cell of first row'
                   WS.Cells(i, 4).Value = FirstRow(3).innerText
                   
                   'Update NAV value from the DIV element in the 3rd table cell of first row'
                   WS.Cells(i, 9).Value = FirstRow(2).FirstChild().innerText
           End If
       End If
   Next i

   Exit Sub

ErrHandler:
   MsgBox ("Cannot load data. Either the FSM Code is incorrect or FundSuperMart is down.")
End Sub


As this code relies on FSM's price list pages, if there's any changes to that in the future, this code will break. The only modifications done on the table was changing Column C into the Fund Codes used at FundSuperMart (You can get these from the URL: http://www.fundsupermart.com.my/main/fundi...do?sedolnumber=MYKNGGF) and adding the value "*exit*" into the final row of Column C. Like this:
user posted image

Also, the formula for the Units calculation in Column M will sometimes result in an amount that doesn't reflect the value shown on FSM's website as the rounding order is different.

This is the existing rounding formula in Column M (Removed the @ coz it will trigger tagging):
CODE
(-ROUND((ROUND(([Amount]/(1+([[Sales Charge / Redemption Fee]]*(1+[[GST %]])))),2)/[[NAV Price]]),2))+[[Transaction Manual Adj.]]

Changing it to this has resulted in all my values matching the ones on FSM's website:
CODE
(-ROUND((ROUND(([Amount]/(1+([[Sales Charge / Redemption Fee]]*(1+[[GST %]]))))/[[NAV Price]],2)),2))+[[Transaction Manual Adj.]]

*
rclxms.gif rclxms.gif Very good job! Will try it out and consolidate it into downloadable version thumbup.gif
j.passing.by
post Jul 12 2015, 01:30 PM

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QUOTE(yklooi @ Jul 12 2015, 07:11 AM)
hmm.gif  rclxms.gif yes,...good illustration.  notworthy.gif

my question is, if someone said, that his China fund's IRR dropped from 20%+ to IRR 10%
(so the time is I think is about 3 weeks different)....just wondering how much did his fund's ROI dropped in %.
(yes, I know Fund Returns tabs in the FSM can do that.....jus that it did not show that much....it just showed -6.5%.)
hmm.gif now come to think of it,...will his regular top ups of < 12 months time frame played a role in the big different of variance of IRR and ROI?
*
You should stop wondering and make any further detective work on how much the ROI dropped; since the relevant info on how long the investment was held was not given. tongue.gif

You should also note that the -6.5% is based on a chart with a 3 weeks old date as its starting point. If you use one-year-old date, or any other date as the starting point, the growth rate will be different. Maybe showing a huge gain instead of a negative growth.

"...his China fund's IRR dropped from 20%+ to IRR 10%"
Are you working on the wrong premise that the drop is -10%?

Be careful with the "English" in the sentences.
It only shows a 10% difference; not a "drop in percentage".

A "percentage drop" is calculated based on its initial value. Going from 20 to 10, is a -50% drop. smile.gif

So you see, you have made several wrong maths logic to built up a question or maths problem. How to find a valid solution to an invalid problem? wink.gif


QUOTE(xuzen @ Jul 12 2015, 11:04 AM)
Awesome explanation J.passing.by!  rclxms.gif  rclxms.gif  rclxms.gif

Xuzen
*
Thank you. I think it is worthwhile to further clarify some maths logic, especially IRR, since it has implications on how we do the 'investments' in unit trusts.


cappuccino vs latte
post Jul 12 2015, 02:44 PM

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QUOTE(yklooi @ Jul 12 2015, 08:06 AM)
yes,...
Btw,....the KL seminar's carpark also have to Pay RM 5 per entry too?
*
It's free.
idyllrain
post Jul 12 2015, 03:19 PM

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Here's my modified copy (with some slight differences): https://www.dropbox.com/s/r9vv8oib6blxia3/P...bearz.xlsm?dl=0

Modifications I've made:
Added macro to obtain fund prices (Options -> Customize Ribbon -> Developer tab)
If you are not comfortable with code, I highly suggest that you don't use this file and let polarzbearz look at the code, verify that it doesn't do anything malicious then include it into his version. As this file contains a macro, it will trigger security warnings and you will need to enable macros in order to use it. You have to do this only once.
user posted image

The macro code in this file is slightly different than the one I posted above. The differences in this file is just that I added a message indicator saying what is being updated so that if something fails you'll know which fund is causing the problem:
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Code here for auditing:
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Changed "Investment Details" table into range (Table Design tab -> Convert to Range)
Since I just want to insert rows by "Select rows -> right click -> insert copied cells" *and* I don't really want to have tons of placeholder rows, I converted it to a normal range. The only downside to this, is that Excel will not autofill the formulas for you. However, it is really really simple to do that manually:
- Shift + spacebar (This selects the row if its not already selected)
- Ctrl + D (This takes the formula from the row above and fills it into the current row)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

I removed the dummy values for the IRR calculations
Since I don't have any retired funds... I understand they're there to fix a summary bug

Changed unit amount rounding order
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

QUOTE
Edit 12/7: Testing by polarzbearz reveals that my modification to the rounding formula is still not the formula that FSM uses [ Link to post ]


This post has been edited by idyllrain: Jul 12 2015, 05:46 PM
polarzbearz
post Jul 12 2015, 03:28 PM

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QUOTE(idyllrain @ Jul 12 2015, 03:19 PM)
Here's my modified copy (with some slight differences): https://www.dropbox.com/s/r9vv8oib6blxia3/P...bearz.xlsm?dl=0

Modifications I've made:
Added macro to obtain fund prices (Options -> Customize Ribbon -> Developer tab)
If you are not comfortable with code, I highly suggest that you don't use this file and let polarzbearz look at the code and verify that it doesn't do anything malicious then include it into his version. As this file contains a macro, it will trigger security warnings and you will need to enable macros in order to use it. You have to do this only once.
user posted image

The macro code in this file is slightly different than the one I posted above. The differences in this file is just that I added a message indicator saying what is being updated so that if something fails you'll know which fund is causing the problem:
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Code here for auditing:
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Changed "Investment Details" table into range (Table Design tab -> Convert to Range)
Since I just want to insert rows by "Select rows -> right click -> insert copied cells" *and* I don't really want to have tons of placeholder rows, I converted it to a normal range. The only downside to this, is that Excel will not autofill the formulas for you. However, it is really really simple to do that manually:
- Shift + spacebar (This selects the row if its not already selected)
- Ctrl + D (This takes the formula from the row above and fills it into the current row)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

I removed the dummy values for the IRR calculations
Since I don't have any retired funds... I understand they're there to fix a summary bug

Changed unit amount rounding order
As mentioned in my first post, this rounding appears to match what is shown in FSM's site. I have not encountered any differences between my units and the units shown on FSM's website yet... but my dataset is a lot smaller than all the seasoned investors here so please do check. If you had to use Transaction Adjustments to adjust your units before, this should eliminate the need for it.
*
I'm currently modifying your original source (the first one which was provided), mainly on the ErrHandling part - so that the code continues to execute (for subsequent fund updates) even if there was error, and provides a summary at end of execution.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Will release the next version with this feature once finalizing the codes laugh.gif

Here's a sneak peek:
Attached Image

thumbup.gif thumbup.gif Good work on your side, never thought about fetching the NAV price from FSM directly

This post has been edited by polarzbearz: Jul 12 2015, 03:28 PM
idyllrain
post Jul 12 2015, 03:33 PM

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QUOTE(polarzbearz @ Jul 12 2015, 03:28 PM)
I'm currently modifying your original source (the first one which was provided), mainly on the ErrHandling part - so that the code continues to execute (for subsequent fund updates) even if there was error, and provides a summary at end of execution.

Awesome! Time for me to lurk again~

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