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 [Home Appliances] Water Filter/Purifier Thread V2, Drinking Water Treatment System

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aeiou228
post Jul 10 2018, 04:37 PM

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QUOTE(hestati @ Jul 10 2018, 02:53 PM)
Yes, in theory you need new flow resistor. If you do not change that, you are absolutely correct, your efficiency will drop and useful life of new membrane will be decreased. Though it is less critical in our Malaysian water with low TDS. For 75GPD you need, in theory 790mlm, so choose either 750mlm or 850mlm.

Pre filter for Freaca RO will be 1 micron pleated polyester and 2 carbon blocks of 1 micron nominal each. Tankless system does not require any post filter, but we may install Quantum Disinfection as post filter, this would be useful for people who do not use their system a lot, go outstation for 2-3 weeks etc.
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How fast can Fresca tankless RO fill up 250ml (1 cup) from the faucet ?
hestati
post Jul 10 2018, 04:49 PM

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QUOTE(aeiou228 @ Jul 10 2018, 04:37 PM)
How fast can Fresca tankless RO fill up 250ml (1 cup) from the faucet ?
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Goal is 1L/minute with 98% rejection rate, I think 550 GPD should be able to give slightly more than that. Still much slower than Fresca Disruptor or Fresca Lite (4L/min), but pretty good for RO system. Aquaphor is about 2.5-3L per minute in real life situation.

So a cup of water in 15 seconds
hestati
post Jul 10 2018, 05:22 PM

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May I ask our dear forum mates...

We got the dispenser and so far so good for how water. Tankless, it gives about 0.5L in 1 minute, so you get a cup of 90 degrees hot water in about 30 seconds, no smell, no taste, pure water from filter. No energy wasted unless hot water required, no noise, no heat, no bacteria since it is tankless, excellent.

However, cold and tankless do not work together. Cooling water down is a real challenge, you basically need a mini fridge and it must cool down instantly, which is pretty much impossible. It makes noise, needs to operate all the time and even then it can cool down water by only few degrees.

So my question is, how important is cold water from dispenser? We all have fridges at home, so fridge can cool down water a lot more efficiently than tankless dispenser. Is hot water priority?
aeiou228
post Jul 10 2018, 10:55 PM

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QUOTE(hestati @ Jul 10 2018, 04:49 PM)
Goal is 1L/minute with 98% rejection rate, I think 550 GPD should be able to give slightly more than that. Still much slower than Fresca Disruptor or Fresca Lite (4L/min), but pretty good for RO system. Aquaphor is about 2.5-3L per minute in real life situation.

So a cup of water in 15 seconds
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Found this interesting dual 80GPD membranes method to increase the filtered water to 25L/hr and 1:1 waste water rejection. thumbsup.gif

hestati
post Jul 10 2018, 11:08 PM

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QUOTE(aeiou228 @ Jul 10 2018, 10:55 PM)
Found this interesting dual 80GPD membranes method to increase the filtered water to 25L/hr and 1:1 waste water rejection. thumbsup.gif
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Good find! Have he measured the rejection rate though I've checked the video quickly and haven't found him measuring it? I've seen a Swede guy doing it too, but he wasn't aiming for 98% rejection, he was happy to bring TDS 100 to TDS 10, which is 90% rejection. Issue with 1:1 ration is really premature membrane fouling. I will share the link if I find this Swede guy
aeiou228
post Jul 10 2018, 11:20 PM

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QUOTE(hestati @ Jul 10 2018, 11:08 PM)
Good find! Have he measured the rejection rate though I've checked the video quickly and haven't found him measuring it? I've seen a Swede guy doing it too, but he wasn't aiming for 98% rejection, he was happy to bring TDS 100 to TDS 10, which is 90% rejection. Issue with 1:1 ration is really premature membrane fouling. I will share the link if I find this Swede guy
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The 1:1 rejection ratio is based on the same timing to fill up a glass of water from both filtered water and rejected water.
hestati
post Jul 10 2018, 11:24 PM

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QUOTE(aeiou228 @ Jul 10 2018, 11:20 PM)
The 1:1 rejection ratio is based on the same timing to fill up a glass of water from both filtered water and rejected water.
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Correct,by rejection rate I mean TDS rejection. Have he measured before/after TDS of the water? If TDS rejection rate is acceptable, this could be a great solution instead of those extremely expensive 600GPD membranes from Axion or Filmtec
aeiou228
post Jul 10 2018, 11:52 PM

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QUOTE(hestati @ Jul 10 2018, 11:24 PM)
Correct,by rejection rate I mean TDS rejection. Have he measured before/after TDS of the water? If TDS rejection rate is acceptable, this could be a great solution instead of those extremely expensive 600GPD membranes from Axion or Filmtec
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He measured the TDS @ 4ppm in another video.


This is a much better video for dual membranes method.

yan7181
post Jul 11 2018, 03:54 PM

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QUOTE(hestati @ Jul 5 2018, 02:25 PM)
Guys, story/question about Panasonic filters...

I have a friend who has this cheap, counter top Panasonic attached to his faucet. Last time I was at his place, tried his water and it had bad, medicine taste.

So I asked him if he changed cartridge ever, and he told me he did just recently. Ok, nevermind.

Then a customer writes to me, asking if our FD will be able to get rid of taste. We pinpoint the problem not to his water, but to... Panasonic filter.

Then I recall that few weeks ago we installed a filter to replace Panasonic. I did not pay attention back then, but now texted the customer. Reply was "the water did not taste well even with new cartridge".

At the same time, not everyone can taste it, but some people definitely can. Conclusion is, most probably the cartridge leaches something into water that gives that taste.... I did not expect this from Jap company, when filter does more harm than good...

Anyone else experienced that with their Panasonic?
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i am the customer, haha. hestati is very helpful and answer all my questions.
i need to thanks aeiou228 too as he also shows me several ways to water filter stuff.


This post has been edited by yan7181: Jul 11 2018, 07:24 PM
hestati
post Jul 11 2018, 10:37 PM

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QUOTE(aeiou228 @ Jul 10 2018, 11:52 PM)
He measured the TDS @ 4ppm in another video.

This is a much better video for dual membranes method.
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Oh, I see, they do it in series which makes sense, but gotta calculate the cost. For tankless, you need minimum 400GPD, so that means 2 of 200GPD membranes, and that could be very expensive. But at the same time, if we're using right pre-filters, these membranes will last pretty much forever.

I know there is another very recent technology with membrane being fed from both sides. There it was possible to achieve 1:1 ratio with single 550GPD membrane, which was WOW!, but seems like the company that used to make those went out of business, gotta see if any others are using this technology. This is why I'm taking so much time with RO system, I hate the 4:1 (or so) waste. If waste can be brought to 2:1 or even better 1:1, then tankless RO is an excellent choice for drinking water.

This post has been edited by hestati: Jul 11 2018, 10:38 PM
aeiou228
post Jul 12 2018, 06:18 PM

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QUOTE(hestati @ Jul 11 2018, 10:37 PM)
Oh, I see, they do it in series which makes sense, but gotta calculate the cost. For tankless, you need minimum 400GPD, so that means 2 of 200GPD membranes, and that could be very expensive. But at the same time, if we're using right pre-filters, these membranes will last pretty much forever.

I know there is another very recent technology with membrane being fed from both sides. There it was possible to achieve 1:1 ratio with single 550GPD membrane, which was WOW!, but seems like the company that used to make those went out of business, gotta see if any others are using this technology. This is why I'm taking so much time with RO system, I hate the 4:1 (or so) waste. If waste can be brought to 2:1 or even better 1:1, then tankless RO is an excellent choice for drinking water.
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Non electric RO pump !! Have you come across ?? Require only min 0.15MPa pressure from the street water.
https://m.hc360.com/supplyself/528808794-detail.html
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hestati
post Jul 14 2018, 03:32 PM

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QUOTE(aeiou228 @ Jul 12 2018, 06:18 PM)
Non electric RO pump !! Have you come across ?? Require only min 0.15MPa pressure from the street water.
https://m.hc360.com/supplyself/528808794-detail.html
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Gotta do some research, may be interesting for anyone with low pressure, not only for RO, but other systems as well. Great find! thumbsup.gif

This post has been edited by hestati: Jul 14 2018, 03:33 PM
hestati
post Jul 14 2018, 04:56 PM

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Today, one of the customers asked me about Nesh filters. I had no idea, so I went to research and I was... shocked. I did not want to just send info to the customer, since that could be just me being biased. So I decided to post it here.

This could be an interesting case study of gimmick filled system. (System is probably ok, I do not know and never tested it. I am basing my conclusions on information available on their website only.)

First of all, there is no information on their website where the products are made, is it their products, are they just marketing agency? Because from their history it seems that they are not water specialists but marketing people (which shows very well below).

Then, I opened their first product, Nesh Qoozo. http://www.nesh.com.my/index.php/en/produc...care/nesh-qoozo

Right away, we see "ozonations, highly effective carbon, energizing(!) ceramic" and of course "alkaline". Already plenty of gimmicky words, but let's see what they actually do, they pretend it is 13 stages (text in italic is copy paste from their website (I put it under spoiler, since it is too long):
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Overall, I have no idea how much Nesh costs, where is it made (and why it even exists). It is just an exaggerated example of gimmicks, water pseudo science and marketing ploys. "13 stages, alkaline, ozone, life, structured, clusters"... as if they were trying to pack as many gimmicky words in this as possible. System was designed by marketing guy and not water specialist guy, that is for sure.

This post has been edited by hestati: Jul 14 2018, 05:03 PM
aeiou228
post Jul 14 2018, 08:24 PM

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QUOTE(hestati @ Jul 14 2018, 03:32 PM)
Gotta do some research, may be interesting for anyone with low pressure, not only for RO, but other systems as well. Great find!  :thumbsup:
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I'm guessing 80% of our malaysian kitchen under sink doesn't have power point, the main obstacle for under sink RO system. If this passive RO booster pump really works, it will open up a huge new market segment for RO filter.
It cost only US5 for 300pcs bulk order. How much an electric booster pump cost?

francistcc
post Jul 14 2018, 08:28 PM

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Hi hestati, any comment on mi water purifier?

https://www.mi.com/en/water/specs/
aeiou228
post Jul 14 2018, 09:16 PM

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QUOTE(francistcc @ Jul 14 2018, 08:28 PM)
Hi hestati, any comment on mi water purifier?

https://www.mi.com/en/water/specs/
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Very nice design. Simple, clean and compact. But the cartridges are proprietary. You must buy RC from Mi.
This is a tankless 400GDP RO filter, how much does it cost ? If cheap, it will give hestati's incoming Fresca tankless RO a run of it's money tongue.gif brows.gif
francistcc
post Jul 14 2018, 09:25 PM

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System is around rm800. Cartridge for ro is around rm300 for 1-2 years usage. Other cartridge around rm30-45 per cartridge. So yearly cost will be around rm250?
francistcc
post Jul 14 2018, 09:33 PM

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It claims 1:1 ratio ro water production n 1.1L/min output. Also has the below counter ro system. Which is more exp but better water ratio 2:1.
aeiou228
post Jul 14 2018, 09:58 PM

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QUOTE(francistcc @ Jul 14 2018, 09:25 PM)
System is around rm800. Cartridge for ro is around rm300 for 1-2 years usage. Other cartridge around rm30-45 per cartridge. So yearly cost will be around rm250?
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Compare to the aftermarket standard sized in-line cartridges which I bought recently, Dow Filmtect (US made) 50GDP USD20, Omnipure (US made) sediment, pre carbon and post carbon RM40 + RM65 + RM55. I think the Mi's RC price is quite fair bearing in mind that the RO cartridge is 400 GPD. The only downside is probably the cartridges are China made.
aeiou228
post Jul 14 2018, 10:04 PM

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QUOTE(francistcc @ Jul 14 2018, 09:33 PM)
It claims 1:1 ratio ro water production n 1.1L/min output. Also has the below counter ro system. Which is more exp but better water ratio 2:1.
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Wow, very spectacular ratio, any link for the under counter system? Must buy from China right ?

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