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> Mix Development and Short Term Rental, daily rental

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TSCasLatency
post Jun 19 2015, 07:51 AM, updated 5y ago

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Hi Greeting to all member,

I have recently bought a mix development condo and I realize there are owners doing Short Term Rental (Daily Renting) and I wonder is this legal? do they have the rights to do so? we are residents staying there, those owners that are renting out for daily have cause the residents many problem this including renting out a 2 bedroom apartment to more then 10 people mad.gif and during holiday time you can see many people coming in and out of the condo. vmad.gif and occupying the facility.

Anyone that have similar problem? how do you deal with the management and the authority to stop it? Please share your knowledge and experience. very much appreciated thanks. biggrin.gif

Regards
Cas

This post has been edited by CasLatency: Jun 19 2015, 09:49 AM
TSCasLatency
post Jun 19 2015, 08:13 AM

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Hello any advise?
linkor
post Jun 19 2015, 08:17 AM

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Condo or service apartment ??

May be you can try complaint to management ??
NikAriff
post Jun 19 2015, 08:29 AM

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Basically all Mix Development is by nature are Service Apartment anything that build upon a commercial land falls under that category,is a recent trend by developer who are building condominium on commercial land or above shopping centers have being using term like Service Residence, Service Suite etc to market their property, it is just a marketing term which is misleading, under the present legislation, service apartments and condominiums adjoining shopping malls fall outside the category of residence.

According to National Property Information Center(NAPIC) report under section 3 The Housing Development (Control and Licensing) Act 1966 (as amended 2002):

1)serviced apartments which is defined as short-term accommodation either owned by an individual as a second home, as corporate housing or as an investment that maybe run as a hotel.

2) The owner may occupy the unit himself or elect a management company to rent the unit on a daily, weekly, monthly, yearly or timesharing basis.

So by law it is legal to rent out their apartment on daily basis and renting out apartment run by individual owners are consider residential use not commercial use where by commercial use is running a laundry, office or mini market etc.

Hope this clarify your question.



cherroy
post Jun 19 2015, 08:29 AM

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It is illegal to turn residential property into commercial activities (as daily rent hotel), whereby one can lodge the report with local council and COB.

You may refer and join into previous thread that talk about similar issue, but that was on residential property.
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2353137/all


This post has been edited by cherroy: Jun 19 2015, 08:31 AM
cherroy
post Jun 19 2015, 08:33 AM

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QUOTE(NikAriff @ Jun 19 2015, 08:29 AM)
Basically all Mix Development is by nature are Service Apartment anything that build upon a commercial land falls under that category,is a recent trend by developer who are building condominium on commercial land or above shopping centers have being using term like Service Residence, Service Suite etc to market their property, it is just a marketing term which is misleading, under the present legislation, service apartments and condominiums adjoining shopping malls fall outside the category of residence.

According to National Property Information Center(NAPIC) report under section 3 The Housing Development (Control and Licensing) Act 1966 (as amended 2002):

1)serviced apartments which is defined as short-term accommodation either owned by an individual as a second home, as corporate housing or as an investment that maybe run as a hotel.

2) The owner may occupy the unit himself or elect a management company to rent the unit on a daily, weekly, monthly, yearly or timesharing basis.

So by law it is legal to rent out their apartment on daily basis and renting out apartment run by individual owners are consider residential use not commercial use where by commercial use is running a laundry, office or mini market etc.

Hope this clarify your question.
*
Mix development (downstair commercial, upstair residential) is not the same with service apartment.

Mix development that upstair is residential property one is still under residential category, if not mistaken.

TSCasLatency
post Jun 19 2015, 08:35 AM

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Hi Thanks for quick response and advise, hi NikAriff do you mean, Mix Development are able to do that we cannot stop it?

And cherroy on the other side what is COB? where to I go and file the complaints?
NikAriff
post Jun 19 2015, 08:45 AM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Jun 19 2015, 08:33 AM)
Mix development (downstair commercial, upstair residential) is not the same with service apartment.

Mix development that upstair is residential property one is still under residential category, if not mistaken.
*
Hi Good Day, yes it is by nature all mix development falls under the term Service no matter which term it use Service Residence/Apartment/Suite etc, and another thing is Home Stay are difference from Short Term Accommodation, Home Stay is where by you need to register with the Ministry Of Tourism and you get an agent ID, you invite the guest from overseas to stay with you while you show them the local culture on the other side Short Term Accommodation run by individual owner are differ they do not stay with the tenants do not show them the culture and renting out for stay is consider a residential use not commercial use.

You cannot build a residential apartment on a commercial land and if the apartment on top of a mix development are consider residential it mean there are another piece of land on top of the commercial land, because residential property can only be build on a residential land and you cannot have a land on top of another land.

Hope this clarify out.

This post has been edited by NikAriff: Jun 19 2015, 08:47 AM
TSCasLatency
post Jun 19 2015, 08:59 AM

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QUOTE(NikAriff @ Jun 19 2015, 08:45 AM)
Hi Good Day, yes it is by nature all mix development falls under the term Service no matter which term it use Service Residence/Apartment/Suite etc, and another thing is Home Stay are difference from Short Term Accommodation, Home Stay is where by you need to register with the Ministry Of Tourism and you get an agent ID, you invite the guest from overseas to stay with you while you show them the local culture on the other side Short Term Accommodation run by individual owner are differ they do not stay with the tenants do not show them the culture and renting out for stay is consider a residential use not commercial use.

You cannot build a residential apartment on a commercial land and if the apartment on top of a mix development are consider residential it mean there are another piece of land on top of the commercial land, because residential property can only be build on a residential land and you cannot have a land on top of another land.

Hope this clarify out.
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Hi Nik can we ask the Committee to call for a meeting with all residents agreement and implement a rules to stop the short term rental?
puchongite
post Jun 19 2015, 09:00 AM

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QUOTE(NikAriff @ Jun 19 2015, 08:29 AM)
Basically all Mix Development is by nature are Service Apartment anything that build upon a commercial land falls under that category,is a recent trend by developer who are building condominium on commercial land or above shopping centers have being using term like Service Residence, Service Suite etc to market their property, it is just a marketing term which is misleading, under the present legislation, service apartments and condominiums adjoining shopping malls fall outside the category of residence.

According to National Property Information Center(NAPIC) report under section 3 The Housing Development (Control and Licensing) Act 1966 (as amended 2002):

1)serviced apartments which is defined as short-term accommodation either owned by an individual as a second home, as corporate housing or as an investment that maybe run as a hotel.

2) The owner may occupy the unit himself or elect a management company to rent the unit on a daily, weekly, monthly, yearly or timesharing basis.
I agree with you up to here

QUOTE
So by law it is legal to rent out their apartment on daily basis and renting out apartment run by individual owners are consider residential use not commercial use where by commercial use is running a laundry, office or mini market etc.

Hope this clarify your question.
*
It's this conclusion which I disagree. wink.gif

The custom document clearly states out that short term stay or daily use is commercial use.

Only long term stay ( eg yearly contract ) in serviced apartment is considered residential use.

Then the question is who to decide whether short term stay is allowed or disallowed ?

The law allows serviced apartment to be used both for short term and long term stay. But I think typically the management office for long term stay they disallow owner run short term stay in it.
cherroy
post Jun 19 2015, 09:05 AM

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QUOTE(CasLatency @ Jun 19 2015, 08:59 AM)
Hi Nik can we ask the Committee to call for a meeting with all residents agreement and implement a rules to stop the short term rental?
*
You can't set a by law that restrict individual owner to do on their property.

If the renting indeed violated the council rule (please read the old thread that I mentioned before about the running an illegal commercial activities without local council license), then you can report the matter to the local council.

The law is weak and plenty of grey area to tackle such an issue.
NikAriff
post Jun 19 2015, 09:07 AM

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QUOTE(CasLatency @ Jun 19 2015, 08:59 AM)
Hi Nik can we ask the Committee to call for a meeting with all residents agreement and implement a rules to stop the short term rental?
*
Yes you can ask your JMB/JMC to call for a AGM/EGM and get all owners consent to agree to implement a rules to stop the short term rental, but you need refer to your SPA, if you SPA is do not contain Schedule H then there is an issue it mean is not residential, some Mix Development that come with hotel do have rules in the SPA that owners cannot do Short Term Rental and that is difference cases, if your SPA do not have such rule and by implementing a rule to stop the STR by law is illegal it self and if the owners want to SUE the JMB they will have sufficient evidence to bring them to court, in this case the committee are still able to make new rules but they have to get the consent of all the unit owners mean if you have 500 unit you need to have 500 signature to agree and implement it to prevent legal action from owners that run STR.
puchongite
post Jun 19 2015, 09:10 AM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Jun 19 2015, 09:05 AM)
You can't set a by law that restrict individual owner to do on their property.

If the renting indeed violated the council rule (please read the old thread that I mentioned before about the running an illegal commercial activities without local council license), then you can report the matter to the local council.

The law is weak and plenty of grey area to tackle such an issue.
*
I tend to think the committee and/or management office has an upper hand over it because running short term stay is clearly a commercial activity, it will incur additional work/trouble for the management office to manage. So it's only right that people need to get blessing from management office if they want to run commercial activity in a serviced apartment.
aurora97
post Jun 19 2015, 09:13 AM

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Am not familiar with mix development...

Very interesting questio by TS....

My question though... Mixed dev or service apt/Condo sit on commercial land and has a commercial title to the parcel, if I can a business (making it into an office) from my apt/Condo, what's stopping me from short term renting?

What's the purpose of service apt/Condo in the first place???
aurora97
post Jun 19 2015, 09:16 AM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Jun 19 2015, 09:05 AM)
You can't set a by law that restrict individual owner to do on their property.

If the renting indeed violated the council rule (please read the old thread that I mentioned before about the running an illegal commercial activities without local council license), then you can report the matter to the local council.

The law is weak and plenty of grey area to tackle such an issue.
*
You can set rules that regulate the common area and make it difficult to run commercial activities...

As for renting out, there is a landlord in my Condo (residential), he has about 50+ units... Its very difficult to moniyor who is on short or long stay, the best way would be to amend the house rules.

Just a thought...

This post has been edited by aurora97: Jun 19 2015, 09:18 AM
gugukrez
post Jun 19 2015, 09:20 AM

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QUOTE(CasLatency @ Jun 19 2015, 07:51 AM)
Hi Greeting to all member,

I have recently bought a mix development condo and I realize there are owners doing Short Term Rental (Daily Renting) and I wonder is this legal? do they have the rights to do so? we are residents staying there, those owners that are renting out for daily have cause the residents many problem this including renting out a 2 bedroom apartment to more then 10 people mad.gif  and during holiday time you can see many people coming in and out of the condo.  vmad.gif and occupying the facility.

Anyone that have similar problem? how do you deal with the management and the authority to stop it? Please share their knowledge and experience. very much appreciated thanks.  biggrin.gif

Regards
Cas
*
how big is the built up? because MPBJ got the law that one person must have the space of *** per cubic.. if the house only 800sqf with 10 people.. then u can call MPBJ go sapu.. minimum 5k or jail 2 year to owner..
TSCasLatency
post Jun 19 2015, 09:27 AM

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QUOTE(gugukrez @ Jun 19 2015, 09:20 AM)
how big is the built up? because MPBJ got the law that one person must have the space of *** per cubic.. if the house only 800sqf with 10 people.. then u can call MPBJ go sapu.. minimum 5k or jail 2 year to owner..
*
Hi the build up is between 900-2500, MPBJ have such rules? if so that is very good, mean we just need to collect the evidence to launch the complaints. =)

By the way where do I refer to this rules?
gugukrez
post Jun 19 2015, 09:42 AM

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QUOTE(CasLatency @ Jun 19 2015, 09:27 AM)
Hi the build up is between 900-2500, MPBJ have such rules? if so that is very good, mean we just need to collect the evidence to launch the complaints. =)

By the way where do I refer to this rules?
*
You can call MPBJ complain hotline to confirm with it.. as previously nearby my house there is one company renting the house with 25 ++ staff.. and neighborhood complain and MPBJ come sapu.. but give warning two week to move out those EXTRA staff..
puchongite
post Jun 19 2015, 09:44 AM

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QUOTE(aurora97 @ Jun 19 2015, 09:13 AM)
Am not familiar with mix development...

Very interesting questio by TS....

My question though... Mixed dev or service apt/Condo sit on commercial land and has a commercial title to the parcel, if I can a business (making it into an office) from my apt/Condo, what's stopping me from short term renting?

What's the purpose of service apt/Condo in the first place???
*
I don't think by law you are allowed to run a business in your serviced apartment for long term stay. Even though it sits on a commercial land and commercial title.

Enforcement is a different issue.
NikAriff
post Jun 19 2015, 09:45 AM

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QUOTE(puchongite @ Jun 19 2015, 09:00 AM)
I agree with you up to here
It's this conclusion which I disagree. wink.gif

The custom document clearly states out that short term stay or daily use is commercial use.

Only long term stay ( eg yearly contract ) in serviced apartment is considered residential use.

Then the question is who to decide whether short term stay is allowed or disallowed ?

The law allows serviced apartment to be used both for short term and long term stay. But I think typically the management office for long term stay they disallow owner run short term stay in it.
*
Hi Good Day,

In which part of the document does it states out that short term stay or daily use is commercial use?

I agree with you that mostly the management office will disallow owner to run short term stay but also to add in that this will need to look into their residents handbook and SPA as well, because if is in the house rules then calling for a AGM/EGM for majority vote can change or add rules to control, but if is the rules implement by the AGM/EGM are against the rights of SPA then we might have a problem, to my understanding SPA for residential falls under schedule H and SPA for Mix Development do not falls under this we might need to clarify this with the Authority but as usual the authority is inefficient. doh.gif

Regards
Nik

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