Hi all
I would like to turn a condo into homestay.My question is it legal to make it into a homestay for daily renting like hotel that has been going on in Malaysia for quite sometimes. For example at airbnb.com and ibilik.com.my I have found many condos for daily renting.

Can you copy the link?

In europe many such property. But in Malaysia property located near lrt/ktm should have good potential

Renting without document by law is illegal la. Unless you do every stay have to sign tenancy and go hasil stamp than is legal.

For daily.

Not all condos allow daily renting as that will compromise the security in that condo area.

different people can come in daily and it would be nightmare for security guards to control.

I was told by my tenant that mines does rent out condo to tourist on the min 3 days basic.

Most these tourist are family from middle east.

Of course mines hertitage residence is services apartment type la.

For certain apartment like holiday resort or service apartment where most people stay on short term, it is legal.

But for normal condos where most are residents, I don't think management will allow it as the security and break-in will increase.

why want to do that?
just rent it to Africans... they can pay good rental.

Yes renting without document is illegal for residential property like condo
Serviced apartment still need to see whether the management allows or not, but this is Malaysia where anything is possible....Malaysia Boleh

i dun think ur condo management will allow that if they know it later on.
double storey is quite reasonable ok provided is not gated and guarded.

maybe owner manage to convince the management....who knows

You'll spend equally "good" expenses after all

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Added on
Residences will kill the management, if JMB, the position bye-bye for the coming AGM

i heard from a lot of friends, they can do this, but you have nothing to protect yourself.

eq : african came with drugs and process the drug for 1 day at ur house = get caught or anything, you have to be responsible for that

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Added on May 23, 2012, 10:32 ami heard from a lot of friends, they can do this, but you have nothing to protect yourself.

eq : african came with drugs and process the drug for 1 day at ur house = get caught or anything, you have to be responsible for that

This post has been edited by RedBishop: May 23 2012, 10:32 AM

When the word legal is used, it normally dictates whether what you are doing is against the law. There is no law prohibiting an owner to rent out the premises on a daily basis. Neither does the deeds of covenants that you signed with the developer actually states that you cannot rent out on a daily basis.

But if the entire community of the high rise has house rules against such practices, then you do need to see the management about it and asked if it is possible. Most management, in order to protect themselves, will not allow such practices. People that does it normally do it quietly and will face the music only when something happens.

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Added on May 23, 2012, 10:35 amYou are REALLY AMAZING. Always commenting on things you DO NOT KNOW!!! How stupid can you be?? Don't comment if you don't know. Forever misleading people. I have yet to read one post from you with good advice.

Since you say beside holiday resort and service apartment is illegal, tell me the section of the law under which act that says it is ILLEGAL? Another one of your imaginary lawyer telling you what is legal and illegal. Can you do the human kind a favour and get the hell out of the forum with all your stupid advice? One day, your advice will kill others. Stupid fool who knows nothing makes so much noise!

This post has been edited by michaellee: May 23 2012, 10:35 AM

[quote=ecin,May 23 2012, 10:14 AM]
You'll spend equally "good" expenses after all

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Added on

Agree , prepare lots of money to refurbish the place for ur next tenant if u're unlucky . Also u might hv lots of complaints from your neighbours and the management about noise and etc etc .

[quote=delack,May 23 2012, 10:35 AM]
[quote=ecin,May 23 2012, 10:14 AM]
You'll spend equally "good" expenses after all

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Added on

Agree , prepare lots of money to refurbish the place for ur next tenant if u're unlucky . Also u might hv lots of complaints from your neighbours and the management about noise and etc etc .

[/quote]

yes, plus you have to check your house everyday

Why should someone else possess drug in your premises be your responsibility? I don't think PDRM has gone to the extreme yet. Oh, unless you are the one controlling those drug mules, then of course PDRM will go after you.

it's because the house is under your name, and you have to be responsible.

ya true. even if not ur fault, police don't catch you, you will also be in big trouble.
am sure few rounds going to police station and court.

For property renting, as long as i get a good tenant, i am ok not to increase the renting fees.
don't earn RM100-200 extra per month but you get into big headache problem in future.

Not true. Personally I have three cases many years ago where the houses was under my name. One of the cases, the tenant not only has illegal drugs (E tablets), deals with illegal VCDs (not DVD then), prostituition and illegals. PDRM only wants me to help them by being a witness. They knew I rented the premises out. And I have no dealings with these except taking rental. Plus my rental is at market rate, not way higher (in some ways, I am profiteering from their illegal activities). The guy was prosecuted and to date I have yet to receive any other demands from PDRM. Seriously, in this aspect, I think PDRM is fair and they will not go above the law in prosecuting the innocents.

Under criminal prosecution you need to prove beyond reasonable doubt ma.

The first things is "intention" what.

how can you blindly listen to your friend ah?

this is because you have a tenancy agreement to protect yourself, but would u go into a tenancy agreement when u just only rent for 1-2 days?

Haha couldn't agree more. Really useless shit

Truthfully, in my youth, I did not believe the power of tenancy agreement. To be honest, I don't either now. If anything, tenancy agreement protects the tenants more than the owners. Verbal agreement is a form of agreement. Getting your 1-3 days tenant to sign on a piece of paper is good enough, personally. The shortest time frame I have let out is 1 week and normally that privilege is applicable to my returning O&G clients. Anything wrong, the company will compensate me. I think the problem with doing 1-3 days tenancies is the logistic of dealing with your potential tenants and possible damage they bring. You do not know how much deposit you should take from them if your house is equipped with more than 20k worth of furnitures. All it takes is one case, and it will set you back for a while.

+1 (Besides the "Verbal agreement is a form of agreement.")
+ one IC photocopy/Visa photocopy/Passport photocopy and small amount of deposit

But thought that DOMC prohibits subletting and using the residential unit for commercial purposes?

At least my condo's management was happy to help us shut these hotels down as long as we can provide them the unit numbers

This post has been edited by Backkom: May 23 2012, 03:02 PM

as i said, just close your eyes and rent it to the Africans.

Renting on daily basic can be deem or seen as commercial usage, and this is illegal to turn a resident property into commercial usage like hotel.

Yes that's what the DOMC says. But there is no precedent cases where the definition of commercial purposes can be define. What is not commercial purposes? 1 week? 1 month? 3 months? 6 months? 12 months? Unfortunately there is no single definition for the word commercial.

I was doing 3 months rental for some of my units before and the nasty management tried to shut us down. I won't go into details what happened thereafter, but we stood our grounds and won. It is not easy to define what is commercial. I have recently purchase quite a number of units which I intend to turn into a sort of mini hotel with daily rate due to the location of the high rise. I am likely to face problems but heck, since my group of people own a few floors, chances of us winning the AGM is higher than those against. The sad reality of a poorly set up Strata Title Act for Malaysia.

Can we rent out on daily basic and just tell everyone that friend visit la.

Friend wat... none of their business lo

maybe during busy season like during winter time and during summer & spring we rent more permament like 6 months one.

Will this work?

can pm me which high end condo is available for daily rental? might be good to have a party there. thanks!

I don't know what is your definition of high end, but the below one is quite a good one:
Txxxxxxxsa Sxxxxal ... You can find it in agoda

But guys, try not to do that, you'll disturb real residences very much

It is not illegal. As long there is no nuisance caused to the use and enjoyment of the other units AND there is no loss or damage to the common property, there is nothing to stop you from doing so.

I see no difference between a person who rents out a unit on a daily basis to a noisy, boisterous family for profit AND a person who allows his noisy, boisterous relatives to stay in his unit for free. If it is nuisance, it is nuisance, irrespective of whether the stay is for a fee or otherwise.



This post has been edited by dariofoo: May 23 2012, 06:34 PM

Bro, I sometimes admire your patience in dishing out advices on this public forum. Truly patient. I don't think I can handle the loads of idiots who kept insisting that the illegal ways are the right ways of doing things. And frankly the moderators are hopeless. I made a report to ask them to kill off these unwanted elements, nothing is done. No wonder people say on internet, there are hell of barrages of wrong information. And in properties management cases, law suits can occur. By then will be too late to blame it on info they read on internet. Sigh.. if moderators are truly going to just keep quiet, I think I will not offer my advice anymore and lurk in other forums. Thanks again for sharing bro.

Thanks... please do not come to TS for daily rent, real resident like me gets annoyed because we just totally lose control over the incoming crowd...

Hmm let me rephrase - please come to TS for one night, you can come and have a not-too-noisy party, and please give me the unit number of that God-damn-boutel! For that I'll buy you a big big supper

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Added on May 23, 2012, 8:48 pmTaikor, coming from a resident/JMB standpoint, we really don't want this kind of business to exist in our condo - due to security and crowd control reasons.
Any tips on how we can effectively draft the house rules to deter this kinda activities?

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Added on May 23, 2012, 8:56 pmTo me, as long as we can effectively record the resident's details - for security reasons - with proper access control, I don't see a problem of doing short term rental such as 3 months.

But daily rent, there's no way the management and security can track the activities.
Of course you're right, coming from the business and legal point of view.
But as an owner to the condo, wouldn't you want to protect the reputation and upkeep of your property (and it's common area and security), and aim for long term sustainability and capital gain?
It only takes one big criminal case (or one explosion) to bring the condo's name down.

This post has been edited by Backkom: May 23 2012, 08:56 PM

Oh... TS owner here.

Would you mind to share how's the situation now due to that?
And, nobody stressed management/JMB?
No "fighting" in AGM? (I've seen before somewhere else)

Sigh, we got bigger problem - the cheapo developer refused to call for AGM despite the VP was 30th April 2011 - I'm really tempted to sue them and send the tauke to jail...

Developer is in control - so we don't have resident pass system. Plus tenants are too "fluid", keep moving in and out (coupled with this Boutel going on)...
And having ME tenants who don't sleep at night (they have fun at poolside till 3am) and loves to litter really doesn't help...
Management office is all ready to shut the Boutel down but we need to give them the unit number... (and they advised that we residents better not get involved directly)...

Ops, you guys have to work harder then ..

ME last time Seri Maya got many people complained also, but I guess it's now got better, seems like didn't hear much anymore, probably you guys someone can go and check it out what had them implemented to reduce similar issues.

A lot of people like to take the easy way out of things without realising the consequences. I have seen the consequences myself, in a case where the tenant sued the landlord for unlawful interference with use and enjoyment of premises by cutting off electricity and water. The tenant successfully obtained an injunction to compel the landlord to restore the utilities. The Judge held that the fact that the tenant had arrears of rental was a separate issue altogether and does not justify the interruption of supply of utilities to the premises. The best part was, the landlord was the wife of a lawyer, who acted for her in the suit and still lost the injunction. Although the case was later settled, a lot of time and money was wasted to defend the injunction.

That the consequence which a landlord must face if he decides to use self-help measures.


To be fair, I don't think the moderators would delete or take action against those seemingly illegal or wrong advice. In fact, how would the moderators even know, from a STRICTLY legal standpoint, as to whether the advice is accurate or otherwise? In fact, the particular TS ought to know and judge for himself whether the advice is good or otherwise. From the language and terms used, from the background of the forummer posting it. Ultimately, if that TS is really looking for genuine advice, go seek an ACTUAL lawyer for some proper consultation. They are only looking for trouble if they put their trust in various strangers giving advice using a pseudonym and shielding behind an avatar.

The fact that the mods have allowed Lawyer's Corner to be a pinned topic is a good thing. It is a one-stop centre for legal advice. Yet, some folks deem it more befitting to open their own topics and ask legal advice from the general public. To expect the mods to then 'look out' for idiots giving misleading advice would be stretching it too far as the TS ought to know better since there is a dedicated thread to seek legal advice from.

Like the saying goes, 'you can lead a horse to water but you can't force it to drink'.

I'm sure there's the silent majority who reads your advice and understands accordingly. So, do keep on plodding along and keep up the good work, mate

Wodering, in order to be avoid being sue for cutting water and electricity.

So , if we included this term and condition. Can we escape?


" Upon failing to make payment of rental from tenant to Landlord for more than 30 days. Landlord can cutting electicity and water to the said property without notice to tenant "

Yes, indeed.

There is not clear cut law, stated, what if tenants do not pay the rental, landlord has the right to cut water and electricity supply.
There is no specific law stated one can or cannot rent for 1 day, 1 month or 1 year.
There is only local authority regulation stated, residential property cannot be used for commercial like motel.

Rent 1 day is or is not a commercial usage, it is not up to ordinary person like me or we to judge. It is until there is preceding case and judgement being made, only then we can know what is verdict.

Whatever comment made here doesn't mean it must be right or wrong.
Some may be ill advised, some may be good one. It is up to reader to filter and judge on one own.
It is an open forum place,
moderator is not the one that know every piece of law and regulation which is right or wrong.
So it is not for moderator to delete those comment (even ill advised one), we can pin-point to the fact whatever comment is ill advised and wrongly, which is good enough to remind readers around.



You can, but it is not 100% sure will win the case as well.
As any T&C that violate the basic law, it can be deem void and null one or can be challenged.

Like that, I do not wish to buy the particular highrise building.

If all owner across of the building is doing this, I don't think the property can fetch good price in the future.

The bolded part can be seen as commercial use.
Yes, how to define it as commercial use?
Let the judge to decide.

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Added on May 24, 2012, 3:35 pmWhen people knew a particular property being used like motel, I can bet valuation will be significant lower than another similar one being being managed properly and genuine own stay one.

Little people want to buy a property for own stay that full of stranger that everyday changing due to daily motel renting.

This post has been edited by cherroy: May 24 2012, 03:35 PM

Actually there are clear cut case precedents on dealing with deliquent tenants and I have been promoting the legal way. Though I have never said that that is the most efficient way. I believe in such public forum, we should promote what is right rather than what is against the law, especially when Jalsrix mentioned that he has asked his lawyers, and some readers might interprete it as he had already done his research and advised accordingly. Such people are dangerous. He has failed to give the name of his lawyers and cases which supported his claims.

Like I have said, and I think Dario had pointed out, 1 day rental does not constitute anything illegal as there is no specific law in dealing with it. If it is illegal, then renting out the property for 12 months is illegal too as it is on a commercial basis.

Yes, there is no specific law saying that 1 day renting = commercial use
but neither said 1 day renting and running like motel is not a commercial use.

Then please always state the cases, and what is verdict as well, and law according to the deliquent tenants issue.
It will help and benefit all, as there is no specific law or guideline to tell landlord what can be done on deliquent tenants issue apart from legal procedure to chase after the owed money.

Whether it is legal or not, is not down to we think or you think.
It is down to the authority or judge to decide under juridication procedure, the definition of commercial use, whether daily renting to different person is a commercial use or not.

I think Dario had pointed out the cases where self help will only land the landlord in trouble. And it is a common knowledge among lawyers with some sense of the law that self help will land the landlord in trouble if the tenant happened to be knowledgeable about the law.

Let me ask you, is stealing RM1 a lesser crime than someone stealing RM100?

1 day, 1 week, 1 month, 1 year make no difference at all. Like Dario had pointed out, a tenant who is on a 2 year contract might be a nuisance and the one on a 1 day contract might be an angel. So which tenant is better?

Like my previous stand, I don't mind good debate and occasional bad advices. I can take and counter those. But when people like Jalsrix comes online and claimed that his lawyers have given such "illegal" advices and to date refuse to name his lawyers, it is dangerous. Newbies might pick the easiest way out since those advices are given by lawyers and because Michaellee is NOT a lawyer, hence his opinion will weigh a lot less. I believe dangerous people to society should be weeded out especially those who stubbornly thinks they are right and continued to use my lawyer says (and yet he got cheated by agents and bankers).

Again, whether stealing Rm1 or stealing RM100 is less crime or not, it is not up to we to judge. You or we cannot say it is the same or less.
It is up to legal juridication process to decide.

It is also irresponsible to say renting daily and running like motel has no different than 1 month or 1 years ordinary lease, unless we have precedented case saying it is not illegal to run like motel aka daily renting like commercial.
Don't get me wrong, I neither say renting 1 day is illegal as well.

With all due respect, you are looking at it from a wrong angle. What I gather is that you're saying - there's nothing which says that 1 day renting and running like motel is not commercial use.

There is a maxim and general principle in law, derived from English law, that "everything which is not prohibited is allowed". As such, unless there is a general prohibition on it, then it is permissible. As such, one cannot say just because there's nothing in the law which says that "1 day renting and running like motel is not commercial use" then we can presume that is MIGHT or CAN BE DEEMED TO be commercial use.

If we look at the Strata Titles Act, Section 34 provides:

34. Rights of proprietor in his parcel and common property.

(1) Subject to this section and other provisions of this Act, a proprietor shall have-

(a) in relation to his parcel (in the case of a parcel proprietor) the powers conferred by the National Land Code (NLC) on a proprietor in relation to his land;

So, we go back to the NLC. NLC provides for lease of land. Tenancy is also recognised as a irrefutable right of a proprietor, provided that an agreement for a tenancy does not exceed 3 years. If it is more than 3 years, it has to be a lease. And a lease must be registered.

One must note that there is no minimum limit as to tenancy set by the law. As such, even a day's tenancy is considered legal. One cannot equate it to a hotel/motel as for such services, they do not require tenancy agreements to be drawn up. A signature on the registration form confirms that the occupant agrees to be bound by their Rules & Regulations set by the hotel/motel.

For landlords who are going to rent it out on a daily basis, a tenancy agreement still has to be drawn up and executed by the parties and subsequently stamped (if the landlord wants it to be enforceable and admitted as evidence in Court if a dispute arises).

So, we've basically established that even a daily tenancy by a proprietor is not commercial in nature and is not against the law with regard to the National Land Code and the Strata Titles Act.

Now, in the event that the tenant causes nuisance or trouble or transgresses upon the rights, use and enjoyment of OTHER proprietors and/or the common property of the condo, then yes, there is a breach in TORT. In this scenario, the other proprietors or the MC/JMB can take action against the tenant and/or proprietor for such tort.

The remedy for the other proprietors or the MC/JMB is to seek damages/compensation. That is all. The other proprietors or the MC/JMB cannot prohibit the landlord from subsequently renting out the premises to another party. That would be infringing upon the legal right of the proprietor to the use and disposal of his private property as he pleases. If another problem arises, another legal suit has to be filed again. The process is separate and commences again from scratch. If there are any losses/damage, then the tenant/proprietor, or both, must pay damages to the party who has suffered loss.

On another note, if there is sufficient proof to show that there is a commercial aspect to the rental (i.e. it is essentially a motel business disguised as a tenancy), then a complaint to the Local Authority can be done. Evidence such as:
1. The issuance of receipts with the landlord/proprietor being represented by a commercial entity in name, or even a name of a motel; or
2. Advertising and notices with the landlord/proprietor being represented by a commercial entity in name.

If there is black and white evidence of the above, then a complaint to the Local Authority (LA) can be justified. The LA can take action and fine the individual/company concerned for breach of municipal laws, eg for trading without a proper license, trading without proper signage/signboard. The Inland Revenue Board can also take action if they find out that the entity has not been declaring their profits for the purposes of taxation (as we can assume that the rental is paid by way of cash). In all such cases, the proprietor would be fined and warned.

However, if the scenario is such there is no receipts, no advertisements (depicting a hotel/motel scenario) and no representation by a legal entity that the premises are for commercial usage of a hotel/motel, then IT IS NOT ILLEGAL.

I hope the above clarification suffices.

This post has been edited by dariofoo: May 25 2012, 12:26 PM

I believe Dario has given the full picture . I truly have nothing more to add.

Dariofoo taikor, so citing example of what's happening in my condo:
1. The boutique hotel is being advertised online in agoda.com and many other online hotel booking websites.
2. DOMC and house rules clearly prohibits subletting - which in my laymen understanding is that the resident(s) of the unit should either be the owner or tenant that has a tenancy agreement with the rightful parcel owner.
3. The "hotel" resident would not have registered themselves with the management office as resident (most of the times they don't even register as visitors).

Would all these form part of the "evidence" as breach of law/DOMC/house rules which gives the JMB the right to shut down the "hotel"?

I've already stated the position in my earlier post, so I'll post the relevant portion here again. If you think it's too long then just read the parts in bold:



The remedy for the other proprietors or the MC/JMB is to seek damages/compensation. That is all. The other proprietors or the MC/JMB cannot prohibit the landlord from subsequently renting out the premises to another party. That would be infringing upon the legal right of the proprietor to the use and disposal of his private property as he pleases. If another problem arises, another legal suit has to be filed again. The process is separate and commences again from scratch. If there are any losses/damage, then the tenant/proprietor, or both, must pay damages to the party who has suffered loss.

On another note, if there is sufficient proof to show that there is a commercial aspect to the rental (i.e. it is essentially a motel business disguised as a tenancy), then a complaint to the Local Authority can be done. Evidence such as:
1. The issuance of receipts with the landlord/proprietor being represented by a commercial entity in name, or even a name of a motel; or
2. Advertising and notices with the landlord/proprietor being represented by a commercial entity in name.

If there is black and white evidence of the above, then a complaint to the Local Authority (LA) can be justified. The LA can take action and fine the individual/company concerned for breach of municipal laws, eg for trading without a proper license, trading without proper signage/signboard. The Inland Revenue Board can also take action if they find out that the entity has not been declaring their profits for the purposes of taxation (as we can assume that the rental is paid by way of cash). In all such cases, the proprietor would be fined and warned.

Thanks Dario for your patience. I'm just trying to understand how we can improve our odds (from the JMB point of view) "legally".

Need your help with explanation in more laymen terms:
1. JMB to seek damages/compensation - didn't really understand this. Are you referring to physical damages done by these day-rent tenants towards common properties? Or inconvenience/nuisance caused to the other residents?
2. Say the hotel operator has a "commercial" name, but that name/entity is not registered with the government/municipal, can we still hold that entity liable? Cause since it's not registered, we would not be able to link it to the hotel operator/owner/landlord.

Thanks!

1. Both.
2. Doesn't matter if not registered. That's what you want - the fact they are running a business which is not registered. The proprietor/owner will be responsible nonetheless. That would be the party who would be penalised by the authorities.

Thanks a lot!
My other lawyer friend also suggested that I go through Hotel Act, and can pursue it via Ministry of Tourism and IRB

http://www.thesundaily.my/news/187865

Excerpt from Act 626 - Hotel
"Interpretation

2. In this Act, unless the context otherwise requires—

“this Act” includes regulations made under this Act;

“Commissioner” means the Commissioner of the City of Kuala Lumpur appointed under section 4 of the Federal Capital Act 1960 [Act 190];

“hotel” means any premises where—

(a) persons are harboured or lodged for hire or reward of any kind; and

(b) rooms are furnished by the owner, lessee, principal tenant, occupier or manager of such premises for the domestic use of the persons so harboured or lodged,

but does not include—

(aa) any premises on which the activities mentioned in paragraphs (a) and (b) are being carried on by or on behalf of the Federal Government or the Government of any State or any statutory body established by any written law;

(bb) any private healthcare facility, child care centre or care centre the establishment or operation of which is controlled or regulated under any other written law;

(cc) any hostel established by or on behalf of any private educational institution or private higher educational institution and controlled or regulated under any other written law; or

(dd) any premises let out on landlord and tenant basis;"

Now I understand your point - with the receipt from the illegal hotel, that's all we need


This post has been edited by Backkom: May 26 2012, 09:37 PM

So what is the right way to do it if one is to rent out daily?

1) so if letting out as a company with receipt is constitute as commercial or hotel? so, what happens if a company owns a prop and renting it out yearly, and tenant asks for receipt?

Right way to do it in what sense? If you're renting it out daily it is still considered a business. If you rent it out on a yearly basis that is different, as you would prepare a proper tenancy agreement and it would make the relationship that of a landlord and tenant. That is legal.

If daily and with a receipt, that is clearly running a business, and if the law catches up on you, they can shut you down.

To another poster question about controlling crowd.

how is controlling daily rent tenant any diff than friends of tenant visiting? If you can't control visitors coming in, then one should focus on fixing that issue first.

one should look at the problem, rather than the tenant's period of stay. Like another poster has stated, long term tenants could cause more problem too. So, the problem is managing the building, not managing the rental type.

would you prefer a yearly bad tenant living across you or a daily bad tenant across you? w/ daily, you might be annoyed few times a year, but w/ long term, you might be annoyed few days a week!

Don't just w/o investigation & facts, claim short term renters as bad!

if you can tighten the security to screen every visitor, then you have better security regardless of whether he is visitor, daily renter, owner, long term renter.

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Added on August 10, 2012, 12:47 amright way to rent it out daily. to me, renting it out yearly could be considered as business as well.

when will it be considered as a business? x=1 day? x=1 week?

what is the shortest possible period to avoid being considered as a biz?

just saying, assuming how a legal non business tenancy is considered.

1) renting period: x till y(in short n days)
2) draft & sign tenancy agreement
3) landlord as individual

so will it become illegal if:
- no tenancy is signed
- landlord is a company & receipt is issued


This post has been edited by lainux: Aug 10 2012, 12:59 AM

No.2 is enough to show existence of tenancy. You can even have a daily tenancy. However,is it practical to prepare, sign and stamp a tenancy agreement for a one day rental? But, if you want to really show that you are renting it out as a tenancy and not an unlicensed hotel, that is the only way to go about it, as much as it is not practical.

Landlord whether company or individual makes little difference. Earnings by way of rental is taxable in both scenarios.

Long term tenants does not mean it must be good, but for security purpose, it is easier for them to control, monitor etc.
It is impossible for security personnel to control and monitor if the properties is full of stranger everyday and changing everyday.
Try to run a management company or security company with that, you will find and encounter problem to enforce a tight security in this kind of situation.

Just like a mall, it is impossible to screen every visitors coming in, as everyday you see stranger and face keep on changing.
If screening everyone, people complain, and also causing lot of time and effort by the security personnel, causing delay in access, car access etc.

But with long term tenants mostly, security personnel can identify who is who, and even their routine visitors.

No one want their properties or home being passed by stranger that keep on changing everyday except for the party wish to turn their properties into daily rent and reap profit from it. No offence.

Yes bad long tenants is as bad. But we are talking about increase of security risk with extreme short term /daily tenants.

It is not only increase the security risk, but can make the property value less appealing for future appreciation for genuine future own stay buyer.

Hmm I personally am a direct victim from all the nuisance caused by short term renters.

Once they rented the place to do birthday party, my entire Saturday night was ruined by the non stop screaming and shouting in the unit.
Numerous times people got drunk and made noise in the unit until I had to get the guards to come and remind them that this is not a pub.
Of course there was once a whole bunch of people got drunk at the corridor, guards came to warn them 3 times, they argued with the guard. At the end the guards had no choice but to call in police.

And my neighbour has 2 young children - would you want your children to see these kinda nonsense day in day out?

So well, you can say all you want. But I can testify to anyone about all the problems we had thanks to these short term renters.

lazy to read all.. and i'm not in this field either
with all those acts etc..
just wanna put a simple point of view that might be related to topic(might be only)

there's diff between commercial and residential zoning.
i bet there's a reason for such other than taxing purposes.

like the case above if my neighborhood become like pub place and feeling less secure i wont like it.
while yes even a permanent residents might have frequent visits but it's kinda diff from a daily out of nowhere people come and go.

in both matters fishy things could be done to.. not to say a permanent resident wont drug deal etc..

it's just point of view i think.
people will tend to see the daily renting one as not comfortable

that's why i think it's best (not must)commercial purpose place in the commercial zone and home for home

i think it's about consideration. especially a condo type.

Thanks, so the real way to protect one self is to sign a tenancy agreement. Will electronic version work? Must it be stamped?

So, if a tenancy isn't stamped, one can be sued for running as a biz? regardless of the period.

+1

If it's not stamped, it means you did not pay stamp duty. Stamp duty is tax. If you don't pay tax, is it legal?

what about those 'tourist homes' as listed in airbnb?

BTW I used airbnb when travelling to HK last year. Back in the 1990s, I stayed in someone's home in Copenhagen - was pretty traumatic as the owner left for her holidays and her daughter decided to hold a teenage through-the-night party and my room could not be locked.

Very good discussion here..
Mr Dariofoo.. If the tenancy agreement took place, stamp duty paid, is that OK for me to use 3rd party (company) to represent me to collect the rental and I pay the commission to them? My concern is base on below statement as tenant may request receipt, so 3rd party (company) will issue the receipt on behalf of me.

'On another note, if there is sufficient proof to show that there is a commercial aspect to the rental (i.e. it is essentially a motel business disguised as a tenancy), then a complaint to the Local Authority can be done. Evidence such as:
1. The issuance of receipts with the landlord/proprietor being represented by a commercial entity in name, or even a name of a motel; or
2. Advertising and notices with the landlord/proprietor being represented by a commercial entity in name.'

This post has been edited by abgkik: Aug 12 2012, 09:41 AM

So, the owner(individual) MUST get his tenancy stamped, else he is breaking the law?

But if one is paying the income tax from his rental income, is it still illegal if tenancy is not stamped?

lets speak disregard to the period of tenancy. can one get into trouble if tenancy isn't stamped?

1) at what point is the tenancy becoming commercial?
2) if a company owns the prop & renting it out short term. is that commercial?
3) if a person owns the prop & renting it out short term, is that commercial?
4) is 2 different from 3?
5) is advertising for rental considered commercial? as everyone needs to advertise in order to get tenant.
6) if advertising is OK, is advertising at certain websites will deem it commercial?
7) if there is a company that manages props for owners to rent out, is that company legal? since that company will be issuing receipt, and its biz is to find tenants regardless of tenancy period.

As of now, after reading, it is quite vague to determine. As owner might get into trouble if he is unlucky(no tenancy or tenancy w/o stamping, he issues receipt & advertise on website...)

i think ok gua..

i stayed in home stay before in other states. They are definitely more cozy and cheaper than hotel..

a room with aircon, personal bath, astro and beds only rm38 a night i remember when it cost rm110 to stay in hotel room

in hk, if you need to pay, sure illegal.
it is controlled by hotel/motel law.

Great info, what if the residence community went to sign in n book the landlord house every week. Keep all the transaction record and sue or report the owner to LA of doing trading without proper license and signage? I believe the landlord will end up lose more than earn. So I guess will this be the easiest and cheapest way to make landlord who do these business In trouble? If the landlord financially is tight, he might increase the number of bankruptcy in Malaysia by 1 unit

This post has been edited by re_freako: Aug 16 2012, 06:59 AM

Hehe that's what my management office told me that they're planning to do
In fact one of our resident had meeting with COB, the COB officers said they themselves will call and book

Actually doesn't worth the risk to earn that tiny bit of money and risk thousands to defend himself and believing to reap profit by bending the law on the hairline flaws in the preset act.

In one year, owner who lease out daily as hotel is having 365 days of risk to loose thousands in order to make less than RM200, before less house keeping and utility bill.

Who win? Reader can judge.

Worse still if the community residence continue reporting the act of daily hotel activity with long list of petition from residence community.

residence community vs solo investor. Outcome?

Did you read the progress of the discussion or did you just read that particular quote of mine? Start frm where Backkom put in the relevant clause of the Act. Look at the clause where it states that an exemption to definition of a Hotel is where the owner gives put the premises on a landloard-tenant relationship. Now, in order to prove such relationship, you need to have a tenancy agreement, even if it is for a day. Otherwise, cakap mulut is of no use or else everyone can cakap mulut that he is giving it out on a daily tenancy, etc.

Next, the agreement must be stamped, in order for it to have legal basis. An unstamped document is of no value when authorities come knocking on the door to check. Likewise to cakap mulut, an unstamped tenancy agreement lends you little credibility to honestly show a genuine landlord-tenancy relationship. I'm not saying that it is illegal to have an unstamped agreement. No one is going to fine you for not having an unstamped agreement per se. It does not have strong evidentiary value. Don't confuse it with income tax on tenancy rental. That is a different issue altogether.

What I'm trying to say is - don't mix up the terms tenancy,renting out and commercial. It is considered that you are dealing it on a commercial basis as an unlicensed hotel unless can show that your case falls under one of the exceptions under the secton of the Act as quoted earlier. Read it again. Nothing else matters.

Utimately, when you're the owner of a condo, your rights must be balanced against the rights of all the other owners of the units. This is where the MC/JMB plays an important role to weed out the problems and attempt to strike a balance between the individual rights of an owner to deal with his own property as he likes AND the rights of the other owners to enjoy quiet and peaceful use of their own unit and the common property of the condo.

This post has been edited by dariofoo: Aug 16 2012, 09:03 AM

what is the condo is under commercial title? owner who are paying commercial rate for utilities? Izzit still illegal?

Check on property rules.. even condo (HDA) built on commercial land title, parcel only can be used as residential..

I currently have some issues with the Management as they are claiming that I am running my property as a hotel. They currently block my access card and disallowing my guest from entering the building even I am happy registering them.

From what I read, I'm thinking of preparing a tenancy agreement on daily basis to have the landlord tenant relationship when they want to enter the property for the night. Do you think this would be able to solve my issues with the management? And after their stay I can still issue them a receipt of payment for the night as a landlord right?

This post has been edited by winter_evolution: Dec 17 2014, 11:08 AM

Which apartment/condo is this? i wan to make sure never to buy there.

Hahaha your property is service apartment or residential condo?

If residential condo I think you will become one most hated house owner

It's residential. I don't intent to rent it out on daily basis if I can get a monthly tenant. Most of the owners here rent it to students but it's not easy getting students here. Just fyi, renting on daily basis does not give me more than my rent as the daily rent occupancy I'm getting is very low. Just trying to survive here.

Hi your condo is residential so I think is illegal, but mine is mixed development so I am not very sure if the owners are legal doing short term rental.

Anyone have any idea can we ban Short Term Rental on Mixed Development property?

can lah.no prob.lots of pipu doing airbnb on condos near klcc, near lrt. can get quite good money oso

Have a good look at http://www.theedgeproperty.com.my/content/my-question-32

Who is conducting short-term "home stay" activities without appropriate registered license is an illegal activity.

http://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2016...nsidered-legal/

so legal or illegal ?

Don't think so this forum is still active, but just want to share out my experience meeting with the local COB. He said we can't stop owners from renting out their units for Airbnb. However, during the AGM, the residents can propose saying that all Airbnb visitors must register st the security (as they are not residents/tenants) and make it compulsory. The owner can be fined with a penalty if they failed to do so. That's the most