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 Aircon Discussion V3, Home Appliance

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SUSsupersound
post Apr 25 2016, 04:40 PM

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QUOTE(eddyann @ Apr 25 2016, 03:50 PM)
19.53!. thats crazy super efficient. haha  drool.gif
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http://www.daikinmalaysia.com.my/Daikin_Ca...FTXZ-0415-A.pdf
Suggest to read and understand all the contents first.
Set temperature of 27°C are quite a misleading figure on power savings, right comfortable temperature is 24-26°C, this is where you see how much power will be required to really make your room comfortable.
Like last week a lot of news came out from papers stating many people have to pay more for their electric bills.
SUSsupersound
post Apr 25 2016, 09:07 PM

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QUOTE(thena123 @ Apr 25 2016, 08:19 PM)
thank you bro supersound
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No problem.

QUOTE(thena123 @ Apr 25 2016, 08:23 PM)
thank you bro. Brilliant. So rougly 33 sen per hour for a 2hp.
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Nope, the cost for an hour won't be fixed at rm0.33, as you need to see on that month how many units you have used.
Also, the supply voltage by TNB won't be fixed, as now most newer housing area they are using aluminium cables, the voltage are higher, my house is 250V, incoming about 254V shocking.gif
As TNB said, the more you use, the average cost will be higher.
SUSsupersound
post Apr 25 2016, 10:38 PM

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QUOTE(keyser soze @ Apr 25 2016, 10:36 PM)
Attacking you or not have nothing to do with if I'm a keyboard warrior or not. Attacking you is just because you like to simply post some links into the forum without reading it and made false claim like an expert. After pointed out your mistake then you started to twist and spin non stop. The same false info you give with the Panasonic links happened last year September, I also pointed out that you was wrong that time you choose to remain silence and you now still keep doing it.

Come on retard! who on earth will carry yesterday newspaper to work place? And now I'm back, and found the paper, the articles you mentioned is on page 6. Photo as shown below.

[attachmentid=6486076]

The article mentioned inverter AC is able to shoot till 1300W but it didn't mentioned the cooling capacity at 1300W, and I doubt that any 1hp can shoot till 1300W. Like the Panasonic link you shown, it only able to reach at 920W Max.
Takes the example the article mentioned, installed 1 hp non-inverter in a open space living room with plenty infiltration, if the off coil temperature for non-inverter is 24degC then inverter should be able to give you 23degC or lower. You didn't use the extra energy for nothing. Overall still back to the EER (Energy Efficiency Ratio), how much energy (or money) you spend to removed what amount of heat.

By the way below is the remote control of my Daikin R22 Inverter which shown that ECONO button is able to prevent the shooting of power to max if you press it.
[attachmentid=6486142]
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As said, you won't post the link that bust your lies. Got few pages of it, so the fact of you still want to twist is still a fact.
SUSsupersound
post Apr 25 2016, 11:26 PM

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QUOTE(keyser soze @ Apr 25 2016, 10:52 PM)
I have the newspaper with me now, which page you want?
There are total 2 pages mentioned about AC and power consumption. I didn't post it just don't want to confused the discussion as you always wish.

Below are the others article that I just mentioned, but I don't see anyone else claim that at full load non-inverter is more efficient.
[attachmentid=6486204]
[attachmentid=6486196]
[attachmentid=6486195]
[attachmentid=6486197]
[attachmentid=6486199]
[attachmentid=6486203]

Or you so sure, why don't you post it up to burst my lies? It was yesterday paper, come on boy, you can do it.
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That 2 pages are quite important, is not you feel, what I see is, you are still trying to twist.
SUSsupersound
post Apr 26 2016, 12:56 AM

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QUOTE(keyser soze @ Apr 26 2016, 12:25 AM)
So, please highlight which article in these 2 pages (except the first one I posted) mentioned non-inverter full load is more efficient then inverter?

Come on, spin. twist and turn again? Always interested to see what trick you use next.
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The newspaper I meant is to burst your lies that inverter are more superior. The fact is, inverter will only do wonders when it starts to ramp down. Those articles is to support my statement.
As for non inverter work more efficient, by the spec also can tell, when both are running at full load.
SUSsupersound
post Apr 26 2016, 09:40 AM

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QUOTE(eddyann @ Apr 26 2016, 08:44 AM)
If I have both non-inverter and inverter in the same room size + parameters it would be easier to compare. but for me in a 10x12 ft room size, setting it to 28C full a full speed blower is already cold at night, day time is just about right, not too cold and not hot either.
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Well, that's why I said your test are quite misleading.
Proper test is to make sure the air cond run to the max then only do the measurements.
Like in that article the person stated clearly, it is impossible for lower HP air cond to achieve 16°C.
Room temperature at current El-nino effect for facing North is about 31°C on day time and 30°C, minimal ventilation.
Same house, facing South room will be at 30°C daytime, 29°C night time. So for 1°C drop, for sure inverter "shines" as within short period of time, it already starts its ramp down cycle. For the sake of misleading, I can always take the measurement during this ramp down cycle.
SUSsupersound
post Apr 27 2016, 12:20 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Apr 27 2016, 10:07 AM)
If I set it to 16c, can I get 785kwh/yrs ?

Need to know base on what setting.
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Check the pdf file from Daikin on this air cond, test environment never put in detail and set temperature at 27°C.
So if we set at 24-25°C, it will be more.

QUOTE(ozak @ Apr 27 2016, 12:11 PM)
I m confuse with the claim of Daikin running spec at 430w. And it is 1hp.

Cause 1hp=750w.

If the spec is 430w, shouldn't claim it as 1hp.
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No need to confuse, 430W is on the ramp down state, technically they are not wrong, if you can make your inverter run on this state as far as possbile, the consumption sure will be very low.
That's why setting the temperature of >25°C and boast around how an inverter can save electricity are misleading.
SUSsupersound
post Apr 27 2016, 12:28 PM

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QUOTE(maxilife1 @ Apr 27 2016, 11:27 AM)
Hi All,

Tagging expert biggrin.gif TXSim keyser soze

Would like to ask advice on below plan layout for AC installation.
Plan to buy:
1x Panasonic Econavi 1.0HP CS-V9RKH-1
1x Panasonic Econavi 1.5hp CS-V12RKH-1
1x Panasonic Econavi 2.0hp CS-V18RKH-1

1. Living Hall + Dining Hall + Kitchen
My house is an open concept whereby you can see through the kitchen. Brick divider is a beam only. Ceiling height is 11 ft (without plaster ceiling. If have maybe about 9 ft). Plan to use AC when its really hot or have guest. Normal condition use fan only. Kitchen also will have a babyfan install.

[attachmentid=6500050]

So, How should i calculate the BTU? Include kitchen or not? Will the living+dining hall cool with the spillage to kitchen? or waste energy coz AC thinks need to cover kitchen area as well.

BTU calculator use https://papamy.panasonic.com.my/support/Hor...ower_Simple.asp

Living + dining only = 348.75 sqf.
BTU calculation show 2.38 HP needed. So i choose 2.5hp or 2.0hp?

[attachmentid=6500051]

Living + dining + kitchen = 348.75 + 150.15 = 498.9 sqf
BTU calculation show 3.95hp. So 2x 2.0hp AC?

[attachmentid=6500052]

2. Master bedroom. Should be 1.5hp enough

[attachmentid=6500063]

[attachmentid=6500064]

3. Room A & B. Should be 1.0hp enough.

[attachmentid=6500053]

[attachmentid=6500057]
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Dinning can share with living hall, but is still depending on how long you will sit in the dinning room. 2HP will be enough, if you are setting the temperature at 24-25°C, if lower then 3HP also not enough.
Kitchen is best to avoid air cond unless you want the air cond to fail faster. Oil stain will damage the cooling coils.

SUSsupersound
post Apr 27 2016, 01:46 PM

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QUOTE(kyle_kl @ Apr 27 2016, 12:40 PM)
Hi, if i only use the aircond for 4 nights every month, temperature set at 26C, is it worth to get inverter type? The price different is RM400 compare to non-inverter.
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Simple concept on choosing the right air cond :
if your usage are > 6 hours everyday, then inverter, else non inverter will fit your bill.
Remember, circuit board for inverter tends to fail fast and changing it requires > rm400 each time.
SUSsupersound
post Apr 27 2016, 01:47 PM

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QUOTE(harace_84 @ Apr 27 2016, 01:30 PM)
sifuss.. need you future outlook on a/c using R22? is it going to phase out? can it still standing for another 5 years..  I got offer on this type of a/c.. dunno worth it or not..
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Government says nothing on this, even Euro spec fuel also big steps behind other developing countries. It will be still R22 for the next 10 years.
SUSsupersound
post Apr 27 2016, 01:49 PM

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QUOTE(harace_84 @ Apr 27 2016, 01:49 PM)
rclxms.gif  rclxms.gif  rclxms.gif
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Only need to worry when manufacturers stop making R22 air conds.
SUSsupersound
post Apr 27 2016, 04:53 PM

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QUOTE(maxilife1 @ Apr 27 2016, 04:48 PM)
mainly will be using fan..AC just to cool off the temperature if really hot..
since my kitchen is open, AC will surely will spread out to the kitchen..
will it effect the coolness of living & dining (not cold enough or AC need to work hard since spillage to kitchen) biggrin.gif
living + dining + height = 22.5 ft : 15.5 ft : 11 ft
looks like 2.5hp based on your calculator..
will it effect the coolness of living & dining (not cold enough or AC need to work hard since spillage to kitchen) biggrin.gif

[attachmentid=6503582]
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A fan on the dining will serve as a "wall" for the air cond's cool air to reach that far.
SUSsupersound
post Apr 28 2016, 09:49 AM

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QUOTE(kokjye @ Apr 27 2016, 09:06 PM)
Did Dry Mode save energy/electricity? But the compressor keep run and stop when using dry mode...
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Sure cannot, compressor is the part that using the most power.
SUSsupersound
post Apr 28 2016, 02:05 PM

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QUOTE(maxilife1 @ Apr 28 2016, 11:45 AM)
1. Most of the time will spend in the living. So no need to buy 2 AC which will add extra cost due to installtion. Noted on the spot cooling. Location of the AC is still not yet finalized. Maybe want to put also in the middle between living n dining.

2. noted on the location and yes only use during sleep time.

3. bed rooms going to install AC now coz dont want the mess of installing in future. But will not be use most of the times since its only me n my wife only. maybe use when have guest.

Since this is my new house and not yet renovate, is it economical in a long term if i install inverter AC even at the moment my plan is not to use AC frequently > 6 hours?
Piping for inverter AC is different from normal one, correct?

appreciate the suggestion and feedback biggrin.gif  rclxms.gif
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1. Use combination of air cond and fan, faster cooling, best location is the place you will gather the most.
3. Installing air cond are not primary concern during renovation, what important is getting the location of air cond and making the holes are more important. This will bring down the air cond installation cost later on and avoiding later hacking jobs that creating another round of mess. Also, always avoid concealing piping.
Always remember this : inverter air cond does not save power if it is on full blast/full output. Always read the full technical specs of each air cond you are going to buy.
When your room are still warm, all air conds will gives full output which inverter are higher than non inverter at this state.
SUSsupersound
post Apr 28 2016, 02:22 PM

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QUOTE(superdav007 @ Apr 28 2016, 01:03 PM)
Asking all sifu's out there.

Im looking for an energy saving 1.0 HP - AC ( Inverter ) for a 13x13 feet bedroom. I've read many pages from this thread & want to ask for ADVICE between these A/C's. I have listed some pro and cons of each AC. Feel free to add or comment.
My budget is around 1.6k for the AC.

1- Panasonic CS-S10SKH- RM 1500

The Good-Panasonic is energy efficient ( 5stars - 1492kw/h) compared to other models. Has alot of functions.

The Bad- Service i heard is bad. Parts e.g (PCB) board are expensive to replace.

2- Daikin FTK10T inverter - RM 1450

The Good-Reviews about Daikin Ac in general is quite good ( Service & Parts). DC inverter, not sure what other brands are using but daikin highly promotes the DC inverter over AC inverter.
But does anyone have experience with this particular model before? The energy ratings ( Suruhanjaya Tenaga)  is not displayed in the showroom or the website. (http://www.daikin.com.my/wall-mounted-series-1-0-2-5hp/) However the brochure does say that it's EER is 12.18.

The Bad - According to one AC service guy he said this AC is not as cold as Panasonic within the same temperature range. True???

3-Mitsubishi Inverter Series (http://www.trio-mhiac.com/products) - RM 1600++

The Good- 7 years compressor warranty , 2 years parts warranty. In the website it gives 5 star rating ( Around 1400 kwh ) EER of 12.XX .

The Bad - Heard that the cooling is not so fast(true?). Any comments on their service ?

4-Sharp Inverter J-tech - RM 1600++

The Good- 5 star energy rating ( around 1600++kwh ) . Sharp brand in general has good reviews about their longevity & reliability. Cools fast .

The Bad - Not sure about their service & parts cost.

Please advise.
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Basically I won't bother on how many stars an appliance has. Even if it has 10 stars whistling.gif
As those test method won't be same as your usage patterns.
Why I say like this? As I don't know under what type of room use, sun facing direction toward the wall, set temperature, type of paint used on the walls, type of bricks used, curtain used.
I have 2 rooms currently, 1 is facing North, 1 is facing South. Now sun is shinning North while 3 months back more on South. Now my room needs 6 hours to really cool down the whole room to 25°C from 30°C.
Say I'm using the 1HP inverter you mentioned, it requires 920W, so 6*920 = 5520W or 5.5 units used to cool my room down. Considering inverter has higher efficiency on cooling, so I may need 5.5 hours, so 5060W or 5 units.
Then it will go down ramp down state, will it go down to 225W? Sure, if you set it right, else it will still taking > 300W
If I'm using non inverter type, 6*830 = 4980W or 4.9 units to cool my room down.
Basically, for my usage pattern of using air cond and ceiling fan, my ramp down state is air cond off(by timer) and ceiling fan that only using 50-80W. With difference of < 1 unit of difference, inverter air cond does not fit my bill.
SUSsupersound
post Apr 28 2016, 04:32 PM

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QUOTE(andrekua2 @ Apr 28 2016, 04:09 PM)
Is there a problem with his sentence? Are you targeting him for no reason?

Inverter does have higher BTU at full load like he mentioned. Anything wrong with that?
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Just ignore the troll. I see nothing basically, since I'm using the ignore button.
For a keyboard warrior, he has to pick a beef inside a chicken egg. I'm used to it already.
When I'm talking on full load, he will use minimum load to attack me.
SUSsupersound
post Apr 28 2016, 11:15 PM

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QUOTE(maxilife1 @ Apr 28 2016, 04:58 PM)
understood on AC + fan combo.
the full blast output is the same auto AC in cars? full blast and then back to normal blast setting?
noted on that. As long as maintained a good service should be okay, right?
dont know about this. many AC now using R410 comprate to R22 thanks biggrin.gif
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I think I never state it clearly, full blast I mean is the compressor working at max output, but the indoor unit blower unit have to see how you set it. Some set it at full speed for the blower while letting the Eco-Navi on. While some set it all at auto.
All auto mode will gives you max power savings with some setbacks like some says it is not as cold as normal.
If you set all to manual and fan speed on max, power saving features off, then the air cond will be using the max power.
Above are just a guide only, actual you still have to see your incoming's voltage and other hardware setup.
Like if air cond A can cool your 12*22ft room in 4 hours time, does not means my 10*22ft room can be cooled by same air cond with shorter time.
Now with my 1.5HP non inverter, the room temperature at day time last few weeks(during El-nino peak) can be as high as 32°C doh.gif By setting the air cond at 25°C, after 5 hours it still does not cut out. So if I'm using inverter, it will be the same situation, maybe shorter than my non inverter, but how long? 30-60 minutes won't really different much, as considering cost of service and installation, it may be higher than my non inverter, since I only use it for 5-6 hours.
SUSsupersound
post Apr 29 2016, 01:32 PM

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QUOTE(pointbreak @ Apr 29 2016, 12:56 AM)
Want to ask sifu here master bedroom around 250ft , what HP AC I should buy ?
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Minimum 1.5HP.
SUSsupersound
post Apr 29 2016, 09:35 PM

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QUOTE(Punanister @ Apr 29 2016, 06:00 PM)
Anybody can recommend a good and reliable aircon home service technician? A tech was supposed to come today but threw me an "I called you but you don't answer" excuse instead. Aircon is a Mitsu Quiet Series. No cold air coming out. Thanks in advance. smile.gif
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If you already > 1 year never service, you can go to DIY hardware store to buy air cond cooling coil cleaner.
While it does not really able to clean it to as new condition, it still do the trick since your technician ask you to fly kite.
SUSsupersound
post May 1 2016, 10:42 PM

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QUOTE(zendross @ May 1 2016, 07:07 PM)
i already used the pana inverter. the new 2015 model. but not that sky model one. u know what.. it is very slow to cool down room. even with the i auto x full blast.. mmm. and i see many of the people in here rated their mitsubishi aircon highly.. that why i askes which model of those mitsubishi aircon that is good. because i want to install another aircon  in another room.
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Basically on this El-nino season, no air cond can cool fast, especially power saving features being turned on.

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