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This post has been edited by digilife: Oct 17 2006, 12:21 AM

sigh. this has been done to death already.

its very simple.

1. HAVE COMMON SENSE.
2. USE YOUR BRAIN.
3. REFER TO #1 & #2.

kthxbai.

apparently the people who get conned are usually the people who lack #1 and #2.

ya i agree fair to buyer as well as seller. Just like my case, i sold a wireless head phone to a fellow with Safe Trader tag. He complains this and that spoilt and shit and get all his MMU friends to taruk simpati here until Mod also taruk simpati. Mind you, he only use the thing for less than 2 hours. First thing his mistake never charge the battery. Second his stupid soundblaster card got low gain which is not suitable for headphone, headphone output kononnya.

So settle i refund him 80% but he is not happy put up thread here bla bla bla. some stupid idiot that doesn't know anything even say i con him by selling faulty stuff and return 80% say i untung. WTF ?

ok lar he finally send back the item to me. I send it direct to distributor to check. I pay the bloody technician RM 50 for them to get it checked and verified you know. No problem or watever shit, i got back the headphone within 5 days. And mind you, those fellow who accused me, cucuk me are still here. No action taken on any of them. And the buyer is still having his Safe Trader tag because i did not make another thread to drop it according to some management ppl here.

You tell me wat kinda bullshit is this. But seriously, i do not have much time now to entertain and make all the accuse just to drop his safe trader tag ler. If the mod want to do it, they do it lar. Else there will be another victim.

goldfries, eventually in my case if u use #1 and #2 u should have known wat to do, but to choose otherwise.

This post has been edited by Infinity: Oct 14 2006, 12:35 AM

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This post has been edited by digilife: Oct 17 2006, 12:23 AM

your case stupid buyer also lor. just that he didn't get con but................

ya wat about the person who says this ? now that the item is not faulty, he should have use #1 and #2 b4 saying this. This is bias and so unfair. Trade enforcer saying this without getting hard facts man !

May i also add #3 - greed.

amazing you'd want to bring up what i posted 6 months ago. looks like someone getting personal.

what i posted has nothing to do with what's posted here. heck i doubt you even understood what i posted - i shall take this opportunity to explain.

firstly, there was not agreement about 80% refund thing. - AFAIK at time of the post, really there was no agreement with 80% refund, hence the buyer is making a fuss.

the 2nd paragraph, note the word IMO. note the O there. Opionion. you don't have to agree with it.

the 3rd paragraph, note the words i find, again my findings (or opinion if you like) regarding issuing 80% refund.

did i accuse you? no. buyer stupid or not, as seller we also sometimes have no choice.

damn. feels so funny to have someone bring up some post 6 months ago and having to explain it. waste my time have to read through to explain a bit.

EDITED : btw you're going off topic and i'm really tempted to delete those posts........ but nmind i'm going to leave it, for the record sake.

This post has been edited by goldfries: Oct 14 2006, 01:57 AM

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This post has been edited by digilife: Oct 17 2006, 12:23 AM

well i just bring up a point to help solve the problem as my point is part of the problem... nothing against u my friend

the deal was to sell the item + shipping at my cost. 7 days personal warranty. The item is not faulty, as such, I have no reason to refund. 80% refund is because i need 20% to cover my loses on the shipping. If every tom, d*** and harry buy and return at my cost, in the end i lost shipping + risking my item being spoilt.

seriously, i would buy too in that case, no cost to me, use within 7 days and return, full refund, the reason just because i don't like it? If fair is something that LYN wanted to archive, then both sides will need to be read and understand.

I agree, 80% refund is not in the deal. However, 7 days warranty do not cover personal dissatisfaction either. So full refund on a working product + shipping at my cost is NOT fair to me at all as the product is a good one.

goldfries, this kinda buyer, how can they still have their safe trader on them ? Again i have to emphasize, it's nothing against you. I just bring it up just to highlight to everyone that ppl that in some cases it's just NOT fair. IMO, i don't think it's fair to me to refund 100% for something that is working fine.

p/s: if i would pay half to get a ferrari, drives for 7 days then return it will full refund (of course minus the petrol i pump in) i will be driving a ferarri with different model every week

This has been done to death guys, we've had plenty of suggestions, few of them actually workable. I'm moving this to Resource Centre, if you'd like to contribute then do, but generally speaking I don't see anything coming out of this.

The thread under the HP section has been there for what, more than a year now?
It's safe to say there were no good implementable suggestions that came from there
Don't you get the msg yet...threads like these wont go anywhere other than different ppl coming up with the same suggestions over and over again needing ppl to explain why they wont work
Are we gonna explain again why the lelong.com registration system will never be adopted here?

Oh and finally the thread's taken down

This post has been edited by KilJim: Oct 14 2006, 12:08 PM

let me ask u this lah.

if you manage to come up with some powerderful system for all this, who is going to spend time and effort to implement it?

tje mods and admin cannot be expected to do it, as the rules aleady say you basically trade at your OWN RISK. in the end, it is not up to the mods, admin or TEs to teach people how to be smart. if some of those people out there are born stupid, that's their problem, not mine.

so, bottom line, unless you can tell me that yes, you will be willing to do all the work YOURSELF to implement and maintain whatever system it is you want to come up with, then this thread is just pointless.

talk is easy. action is not.

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This post has been edited by digilife: Oct 17 2006, 12:24 AM

I don't think its logical to do this because that would make LYN more of a TRADING forum instead of a TECH forum. We already have a lot of trading forums out there.

P/s : if any help is needed I'm willing to help.

if you read carefully, he's telling you FACTs. not negative comments.


Q: who is going to spend time and effort to implement it?

TIP 1: tje mods and admin cannot be expected to do it, as the rules aleady say you basically trade at your OWN RISK. in the end, it is not up to the mods, admin or TEs to teach people how to be smart. if some of those people out there are born stupid, that's their problem, not mine.

TIP 2 : so, bottom line, unless you can tell me that yes, you will be willing to do all the work YOURSELF to implement and maintain whatever system it is you want to come up with, then this thread is just pointless.

============

i personally think along his line of thoughts



yeah. this one looks just like a repeat.





safe trader still mah. he didn't attempt to con, neither was he irresponsible. we don't have a tag for stupid trader.

erm digilife, from what i see ... the mods, trade enforcer and etc try to tell you that currently they've got too many thing in LYN that they need to deal with. The flames, monitor the board and etc and most of the ppls who help out ( mod, trade enforce, staff and etc ) did it on volunteer.

from the previous post as you could see ... none of the mod, admin and etc said this is a bad idea or object about it but they are rejecting this idea indirectly as they know it is not easy to handle.

like what ebola said : talk is easy, action is not.

If only you could make a promise to the lyn mod team & trade enforcer that you are willing to work on this project ... then i think they will show u the green light.

but of coz u need to show them something to convince them that you are capable in handling this duty and not giving blank promises

in fact to ensure safe-trading system here is unnecessary, LYN is not a trading site in the first place.

the fact that there's TZRC, TZDRC and Safe Trader tag - they're already doing you traders a favor.

the rest boils down to human issues which cannot be controlled by the system.

usually con cases happen when people yield to greed and yet having lack of common sense. simple as that.

you don't do stupid things like fund transfer a huge sum of money which you can't afford to lose.

IMO a safer trading place is about the mind, not so much of the system. everyone exercise common sense and responsibility - that's the way to do it. unfortunately there are always evil humans and those without common sense or sense of responsibility.

Additonary Notes

Other than having TZRC, TZDRC Sub-board & Safe Trader Tag

We could also judge the traders by checking on their Successful Trading List.

And LYN Team did actually come out with a few good information thread like

Trading Safely in LYN

Newbie Trading Guide

Trade Zone Rules & Etiquette

and lots more ...

This post has been edited by Vinspire: Oct 14 2006, 03:08 PM

another lelong.com?
if u like systems like lelong so much, why dont u deal there instead? I've use ebay and lelong before, cannot say there are 100% smooth transactions. same here and also elsewhere, people deal at their own risk and everyone should understand that. Want a safe trade? Then deal with only large companies or organizations with firm positions, not individuals.

Wherever you go, whatever system u use, in the end, more or less the same problems will occur:
Damage during delivery, inaccurate information about item, late delivery, got conned...

conclusion, i like LYN as the forum it is

This post has been edited by nghj: Oct 14 2006, 03:11 PM

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This post has been edited by digilife: Oct 17 2006, 12:24 AM

wee ... u seems like having a bad sense of understanding the statement. Nobody hantam you dude ...

They just want to tell u that talking / coming out with idea is easy but to work on the idea is totally a different thing. Theory and Practical is totally 2 different thing ...

talk is cheap

And what the rest of the mods, trade enforcer and etc. want to hear from you is let say we follow ur idea ... Who is gonna be in charge of it ? LYN or you ?

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This post has been edited by digilife: Oct 17 2006, 12:25 AM

Speechless, I rest my case

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This post has been edited by digilife: Oct 17 2006, 12:25 AM

The trading forums are provided for our members' convenience. There are no plans to remove or separate them.

I don't think LYN will ban their members with no proper reason ... So, need not to worry that you will get banned in LYN just because of this thread

Maybe what ? Make it clear

I think we need standard and common rules to be followed strictly.

We need picture or video which shows the item in working condition.

Standard packing procedure which need to be followed. Seller to bare with the packing cost.

Standard freight procedure, charges, forwarding company, DHL, Fedex or any other more reliable one for fragile item. Buyer to bare the shipping cost. Tracking (if available) MUST be sent to buyer.

Standardised personal warranty, since it very vague now. e.g. 7 days personal warranty, buyer get to use it for 7 days. Buyer has to bring up any issue within 7 days. Item must be returned 7 days after report is made and mutual agreement between seller and buyer, in which during that period the warranty period will be hold.

Standard return/refund policy. You don't return an item just because u don't like it. Money to be returned 7 days after item was received.

Standard sending policy, e.g. item must be send within 7 days after the sales is agreed. Buyer to bank in money within 7 days after sales is sealed.

Things like CDs, movies has no warranty despite any caused, unless of course it's not readable. This is because most of the ppl will definitely abuse the warranty. Copy the media and return for watever reason they can come up with.

Verification of seller and buyer, IC + current bill as proof, company registration (for company seller)

if buyer n seller follows these rules, u hardly goes wrong. if these rules is to be made as standard guide, please insist both parties in following the policy. It is clear if anyone broke the policy.

if for some reason the buyer n seller made their own agreement, too bad, it's too hard for LYN to do anything to help u.

This post has been edited by Infinity: Oct 14 2006, 09:06 PM

standards. haha. talk about standards.

do you see what happens at TZDRC? tell people not to spam, stop posting...... sooooooooooooooo simple instruction yet those numbskulls have difficulty following.

see the # of people you have to remind them to label the thread and choose topic tag blablabla.

heck see the # of people that offend signature rules. then later when signature gets nuked they come complain say mod unreasonable balbalbalbla.

sarcastic? rude? yeah. i'm taking this opportunity to bash those nonsense people whose busy posting rants and stuff that don't contribute half a pinch of shit to threads.

standards? LOL........ it's a joke. not the standards. but imposing standards on the people here. they're just not reach the level of intelligence / mindset to use or follow standards.

summary : people at LYN - simple instruction also can't follow, standards would be useless.

IMO, tradings in this forum is not the main point. This is a place, a forum, mainly for tech talks. Tradings are allowed, though, but at two parties' willingness. Whatever that is done is entirely up to that two parties. LYN doesn't hold any responsibility for any losses whatsoever. Heck, they don't even care. Why? Simple: this is a tech forum, not a trading forum.

But LYN did implement the TZDRC for unlucky members who suffered mishaps in their deals, which is good, because it serves as a reminder to those who are about to do business using this forum.

For me, personally, I disagree with the "sign-up-for-an-amount-of-money" system as it's not LYN's main policy right here.

ya idiot does exist, but to be fair, we need policy which should make things manageable. As i said, if they make up their own rules, and something happen, it's not going to be easy to settle, and so they will learn a lesson.

just like now, everyone has their own 7 days personal warranty definition. In my case it has to cover 'customer satisfaction' even though the item is good. In avenger case it has to cover the item returned successfuly to buyer. If a standard Personal Warranty rules, policy and definition is established, no arguement about it

Just like every other section here, without rules, it totally out of control. With rules and policy i won't say 100% won't happen, but at least to cover 90% is good enough. Just like the [WTS], [WTB] Tag sooner or later, they'll get it. Even thought not 100% are doing it, 90% is good enough to make the forum tidier.

DFlo, yes i agree, i have been with the forum long enough to see it changed. however, as it changed, things has to change too. Since there is trading, and there is no single good way of doing it, we might as well look into setting up policy which should take care of most of the problem once and for all.

Just like the kopitiam section, at first, it a 'crappy' place. Meaning place where u can basically really talk about anything. Well it's forum, free of speech, it's a uncontrolled section, bla bla bla. But yet when it got abused, some ppl making it so annoying, rules and regulation has to be in place If there is a problem then there should a need to tackle it.

The trading here is still controllable and in good condition? It's not LYN problem ? i don't know, it's up to the mod, staff, admin to decide. Just my 2 cents

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This post has been edited by digilife: Oct 17 2006, 12:25 AM

we set the rules, it's up to them to follow. If anyone doesn't follow, it's easier to handle the case as the cause of reason is pretty obvious. You don't read, you don't listen, you don't follow, you'll pay for the mistake/problem if there is any.

sure la you say all that with nice emoticons, that's cos he's supporting your motion.

like this la - since you're so keen on doing all those things. how about we just let you go around now handling those matters then.

many of the details mentioned by Infinity are good but they're impractical to be implemented to everyone.

actually trading here very simple. you don't need all those standards if only everyone practise common sense and responsibility.

for example stuff like Personal Warranty, simple - before agreeing on deal, Buyer just have to clarify the PW given. Seller abide by it. Buyer / Seller can agree on a packing method if needed.

i propose we let digilife go and see if he can make things work. as a matter of fact, i challenge him to. after all, he seems pretty gung ho about everything.

like i said earlier, talk is cheap. lets see how you like it, being asked to go above and beyond the call of duty, when your role is voluntary and without actual pay.

who's going to go after the wrongdoers then, if shit hits the fan?

are *you* willing to go hunt them down?



from the beginning, the rules clearly state that all trades in LYN are at your own risk, why should LYN take flak for users being stupid enough to get conned, or for users who join simply to abuse a free service, make loads of money and not give anything back to the forums?

i used to trade in lelong also, till they force member to pay rm2 to registered then i switch to lowyat, reason ? simple, i'm toooo cheap to pay the rm2

whoever (maintain the trading forum) will get flamed till death if receiving "small fee" and eventually buyer(s) got conned... some ppl just ridiculous and blaming others if they got conned

currently what lowyat.net have is good enough for a FREE forum, although something can be make even better. But we ain't paying their salary, i don't give orders.

bottomline:
1) COD whenever possible
2) check seller's reputation before purchase from him/her
online trading is all about 'at your own risk'

the only thing i looking forward to is:
a search function in blacklist/successfull trade thread,
currently if searching for a name need to ctrl+f -> 'nick' for 20+ pages is a pain in the neck

For the blacklist, everything is pretty much in the 2nd and 3rd posts. The list of names are easy to just Ctrl-F and look for the name you want.

For the Successful Tradelist, it's tricky but not impossible. Try this. Go to the Successful Tradelist and click the "Search" that's at the top right hand corner of the page. Way up top there. When the Search Engine opens, it's focused on Trade Zone Resource Ctr. Enter the user's name in the "Filter By User Name (Optional)". That will make it quicker for you to get to the user's Successful Tradelist.

By and large, it's encouraged that people make use of signature space to put a quick link to their Successful Tradelist. Not for putting 20 userbars and GIFs that take up half of 800x600 screens. (You're just cannon fodder for Goldfries )

This post has been edited by altie: Oct 15 2006, 04:56 AM

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This post has been edited by digilife: Oct 17 2006, 12:26 AM

Standardization takes away some freedom from the traders. Contrary to what goldfries said about the community not having the intelligence to follow standards, it actually requires less intelligence to follow them. They'd just be following prepared standards, whilst otherwise they'd have to exercise creative judgement when performing something.

For the proposals you made, I would say most of them should be guidelines, not enforced standards - because they are quite inflexible.

We need picture or video which shows the item in working condition. - Countless items will suffer from this. How do you show a video of RAM or headphones working, or items which are brand new?

Standard packing procedure which need to be followed. Seller to bare with the packing cost. - I suppose a minimum packing requirement would be a good idea for buyer protection. How often does packing problems been raised in TZDC though?

Standard freight procedure, charges, forwarding company, DHL, Fedex or any other more reliable one for fragile item. Buyer to bare the shipping cost. Tracking (if available) MUST be sent to buyer. - no comments.

Standardised personal warranty, since it very vague now. - I propose a hybrid solution - we can write out a standard "Personal Warranty", or allow people to continue using their own "personal warranty".

Standard return/refund policy. You don't return an item just because u don't like it. Money to be returned 7 days after item was received. - OK.

Standard sending policy, e.g. item must be send within 7 days after the sales is agreed. Buyer to bank in money within 7 days after sales is sealed. - OK.

Things like CDs, movies has no warranty despite any caused, unless of course it's not readable. This is because most of the ppl will definitely abuse the warranty. Copy the media and return for watever reason they can come up with. - Up to the seller.

Verification of seller and buyer, IC + current bill as proof, company registration (for company seller) - This won't make it to be a guideline due to privacy reasons. Companies are also not allowed to trade here.

cod face 2 face is da best n test everything b4 buy.......

wkkay: ya as i mention earlier, there are still some stuff like warranty and return policy which can be set by seller and to be agreed by buyer. It's more to like if there is a need to return, wat are the standard procedure. time frame the item is returned. Time frame for the money to be returned back to buyer also

standard warranty policy. Many of the item are 2nd hand and sold 'as it is'. You can't expect it to look like a new one. So the photos uploaded will play a major part here. For an item, we need at least 6 different angle of shots.

Brand new item will of course doesn't need to be taken out from the box and i believe most of the thing is covered by warranty which is normally longer than the 7 days personal warranty.

and yes, we are not here to enforced these standard. If a standard procedure is broken and brought up in the Dispute corner, it's quite clear wat should be done unless they doesn't follow it. But i see alot will be easily resolved as i believe both parties wanted protection and will definitely follow.

ya who should be after those wrong DOer, well this is why the verification come in handy, if necessary, seller/buyer information will be passed to victim and he can do watever he wants. Of course during the verificaiton process, get them to agree that LYN has the right to distribute ur personal information bla bla bla. LYN will not take any responsibility for anything happen to you if the information is distributed bla bla bla. You agree to follow the LYN standard trading policy unless stated otherwise bla bla bla

No suggestion here is going to do shit. Let me make that clear. People aren't conned most of the time because they're smart and intelligent, no. It's because they're stupid and decide to ignore the obvious for either obviously unrealistic terms or unrealistic gains.

What i can propose is an extention of the LYN wiki with suggestion to how people should trade. I certainly have no expectations for precedure around here, i trade how i like to trade because i like to trade that way, for forumers i know, i bulk their items before they pay, because i trust them although some won't even come near to what i do, at the end of the day is a matter of preference. But the point here is, we can't give people guidelines, but we can advise them.

Here are a few suggestion that might work, who knows.

- Trader Wiki based off the LYN wiki allowing for tips to be shared and such. Edited in good manner, it can help alot of newbies. KISS rule applies.

- Educational Video. Stream it off the server, do it flash or something like the dudes on the STEAM forums. eg; Hey kids, let's watch an educational video! Part one, if it's too good to be true, it probably is, like candy shitting pink unicons!

- Everytime a thread is opened up on tradezone, a simple reminder can be given in bold red eg; Trading guidelines, links to wiki, last minute tips, how to use a hair curler.......

Educate, not mollycoddle. It's as simple as that.

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This post has been edited by digilife: Oct 17 2006, 12:26 AM

Well alright those of you who want IC verification so much, here's a suggestion :

Whenever u buy something from someone, ask for their IC and details
If they refuse to give, dont trade with him

This way its simple, those who want extra security can ask for it themselves. Those who are willing to take the risk wont have to

Now why wouldn't anyone/you want to do this?
The answer to that is 1 of the reasons why it will not be implemented for everyone

And digilife, dont start turning this into another personal attack royal rumble

This post has been edited by KilJim: Oct 15 2006, 03:24 PM

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This post has been edited by digilife: Oct 17 2006, 12:27 AM

all this talk, and digilife has yet to volunteer to do anything.

why are you avoiding the offer?

you talk a lot, yet when me and the other TEs suggest that you actually start doing something instead of just talking cock, you conveniently avoid the question.

theres a world of difference between freedom of speech and simply talking out of your ass. IMHO, you cant tell the difference.

And lets say we implement IC verification as in lelong.com which u suggested
How would we at LYN know if the IC handed in belongs to the seller too?
You've just shot your own suggestion down with that post

Why was that post deleted?
I'm not too sure and didnt even see the post yet, but if its like your post #45 i know why
Give me 1 single reason how that post is constructive?
If i were to reply "No digi, it wont work, you're stupid" i'd expect my post to be deleted too

This post has been edited by KilJim: Oct 15 2006, 04:51 PM

digilife, I'll be frank with you. Your ideas suck because they put the traders' interests first, and LYN's next. Not only that, I don't see you defending your ideas when people (who happen to be some of our oldest members) argue against them.

Freedom of speech isn't absolute. Here in LYN, your right to free speech ends where it starts directly offending people. In the case of this thread, it's where you made unprovoked personal attacks at goldfries.


I'll leave this thread open, as a window-dressing so that digilife can't complain that we're some bunch of nazis closing his thread. But I do recommend to the other mods around not to participate in it anymore. It's clearly going nowhere.

goldfries, can you split the topic and move Infinity and empire's and maybe some other posts out. They're worth keeping for proper discussion.

i agree, if this were to be made part of the procedure, it needs to be documented down that buyer has right to deny buying the item if seller refuse to give them their ICs... so seller don't come up winding about buyer doesn't buy, it's a policy in LYN. No question ask.

Yes suggestion and more suggestion is wat going to contribute and help in improving the current situation. Give me some time, i'll run through Trade Dispute and see wat else is missing and post it here.

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This post has been edited by digilife: Oct 17 2006, 12:27 AM

i don't really like the idea of submitting I.C.
imho it's against privacy, most of time i rather kept myself anonymous.

i guess there was no shortcut to gain reputation here,
nothing i can suggest buy slowly build up ownself reputation by buying/selling.
for those whom are newly join it would be difficult since their history are blank.
and nowaday quite some number of conmen/conwomen appears.

u are the tai kor, when ppl go against your ideas,
u shoot ppl like loose cannon.
don't speak of freedom of speech,
u've got the freedom to talk, and others also have the freedom to accept/reject it. you don't have to force everyone to accept your idea(s).

let's discuss it in a civilized manner.

do you even understand the meaning of the word volunteer?

seriously, im glad that you feel so strongly about this, and i applaud the fact that you are trying to speak up, but until i actually see you do, and complete whatever it is that you are saying, to me you're just spouting a whole lot of hot air.

do we really need to ASK or TELL you to do anything about all this? if you really understand the meaning of the term 'volunteer', then by all means, i'd like to see you actually put all your big words in action.

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This post has been edited by digilife: Oct 17 2006, 12:27 AM

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This post has been edited by digilife: Oct 17 2006, 12:28 AM

so i attacked you first? LOL. i assume you are referring to post #35. you call that an attack?

haha. it's barely even an attack, even so you had to defend yourself by going personal, lame counter-attack there. bad try.

it's amazing that you started a thread but you just can't take negative comments or feedback.

in fact your post at #33 actually is provoking Mod / TE - however being nice people we are, we just know from which point of view you're posting from.

i'm leaving post #45 here. i like it. LOL. leave it here for the record.




probably i should phrase "the lack of mental capability" instead but i think you guys get what i mean. been monitoring TZ and i find people have problem following instructions and stuff. oh well..... just learn to live with them.

for the sake of coherency in discussion, i'd like to leave the posts as it is for now. is that alright?


Post #45 lor. that's called personal attack just in case you don't know what it is.

unfortunately, i'm not the guy who deleted your post since my last login at LYN was Sunday morning 4am++ and i've not done anything until less than an hour ago, composing this reply. and my internet connection isn't being helpful!!!

anyway i like the idea of guideline, not enforced standards. (as discussed by Infinity and WkKay) i like the idea to have a generally accepted rule for Personal Warranty (PW), where in cases that if no details of PW given then the PW will be based on what is stated on the guideline.

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This post has been edited by digilife: Oct 17 2006, 12:28 AM

hey, if ur up to it, im all for it. how about you start off by coming up with a guideline of what you plan to do.

next thing would be to see what the admins and mods think about this.

just be warned, expect much criticism, so be prepared to have proper facts and arguments to back up your points, else this whole thing won't go very far. you have to realise, we have nothing against you personally, but something like this needs to be attacked from as many angles as possible, to ensure a reasonably foolproof plan, hence the criticism.

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This post has been edited by digilife: Oct 17 2006, 12:28 AM

Thought i'd be leaving this thread but i guess not

Well there u go, 1st criticism/problem by yourself
Even lelong.com has no solution for that

This post has been edited by KilJim: Oct 16 2006, 02:02 AM

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This post has been edited by digilife: Oct 17 2006, 12:29 AM

This a techforum, nobody actually charges anything or should charge anything for trade, the main objective of this forum still stands, although yes the tech discussion these days is purely comprised of shitty drivel, no thanks to baskets like me egging it on, i say again, it still stands.

Lemme put in point form

- Malaysians are shallow morons, we want something for nothing or less than what it's worth, that's why there are still suckers out there. If i opened an account selling my CFX3200 board for 400 bucks, i probably could get away with 800 before getting caught, and a new prepaid goes for only like 30 bucks?

- Who the butt in God's name is going to sort out all those IC's. Mind you the moderators want to keep as much responsibility out of their hands as possible, what you're proposing means more work. They don't get paid mind you.

- Why should LYN be responsible for details, and why should i give my details as a trader in the first place? I only give details when needed, the rest is confidential, if a buyer wants my IC photostatted, i'll tell him to f*** off and find another seller. End point is, up to the buyer and seller to come to an agreement. I can't cure stupidity man, so i can't do anything about dumbasses agreeing to dumb terms.

- We already have the safetrader tag so the verified member tag is pretty moot because the ST is based on trust, wherelse your VM tag is just based on "Possibly" correct information. Secondly to people like me who prize our privacy, your suggestion of asking people to buy from VM is pretty much bullshit. I've contributed enough to this place, made friends here, wrote reams of FAQs and sold tons of stuff. So you're saying a 1 post wonder VM is better than me? Just because i like my privacy?

Let the buyer make an educated choice.

Point is, your idea wont work.

Back to my suggestions,

Record, Learn and Promulgate. A 3 step solution to the issue, not a total solution, but a better one based on Wiki.

Records of scams should be kept, reports made and conclusions drawn by the majority of forumers here who have sufficient knowledge about the issues at hand.

Learning how scammers operate to a fine degree should be made a priority, their tactics and modus operandi should be made clear and simple and distilled.

Promulgation of the data above is paramount. Putting mandatory links in every newtopic in Tradezone, and warnings before replying to any topics in tradezone can reduce occurances of scam. Yes, most don't bother to read, but it goes to show that reading can save you money, a mentality we should instill.

It's just like graphic pictures of flaccid penises on packs of ciggies, it gives men the shivers without depriving them of their legal right to smoke. Cheaper, Certainly Easier to Implement and if done with enough support, effective.

hehe. don't need to feel wan, it's fact. so many people can see it.

and here's the content of your deleted post too. despite being delete, you still had to post the above. not me who deleted, cos i only got to LYN like after midnight.

but no worries. as you can see from my post i cincai wan. i'm more strict when it comes to big siggies and spam.

ok - who's going to do the coding work? you do understand that it's not easy to do requirement, analysis, design, code, integration, testing and implementation.

my concern is the feasibilty issue. consider the # of trading going on over LYN and the amount of con case or unhappy case, i'd say the bad deals are VERY minimal.

if it was a major problem, then yes perhaps one can consider it but right now i see there's actually more work to implement the idea - in short : most cost than benefit.

yes, no doubt you could always say implement it now before it goes bad.

i like the idea of more guidelines. even when i was driving just now, i was thinking over some of the suggestions by Infinity as i like the ideas. not as standards, but a guideline.

This post has been edited by goldfries: Oct 16 2006, 02:37 AM

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This post has been edited by digilife: Oct 17 2006, 12:29 AM

ST tag is only for a reference,
it's sorta telling the other party that "this fella once a trusthworthy person", and he/she sell/buy alot stuffs and got supported by other forumer(s). It's no gurantee that ppl w/ ST tag won't con your money. as lowyat.net rules said "AT YOUR OWN RISK", u want cheap stuffs? then bear the risk.

and bear in mind that, contributing isn't as easy as someone said wanna contribute. Lowyat.net is a community, it's understandable it only allowed friends, ppl they knew to work out the forum, to avoid the risk that the forum being hijacked or harm. They will not simply invite anyone to moderation/development team because 'they WILLING to contribute'. It's cruel but that's the fact.

Alright fair enough, who doesnt need time?
But since u countered my suggestion with that problem, i'll wait till u find a solution for that before taking you seriously

A topic similar to this have been discussed over and over again but still, things happen.

Seller - I sell something, I state the item description, age, warranty (or PW), condition, delivery method and additional T&C.

Buyer - I look at seller's item, think about the condition, should I take the risk? Should I buy? Can I comply with the additional T&C? Delivery method suits me?

Seller sells stuff. Their responsibility ends when the item leave their hand or when PW end.

Buyer buys stuff. Their worries end when the item reach their hand in working condition.

Buyer doesn't like the item. Too bad. Have to accept it.

Buyer found out the item is faulty within PW or T&C set by seller. Contact seller, hopefully seller take responsibility.

Buyer found out item is faulty after PW or due to negligence. SWALLOW IT.

The END of buy sell story.

Buyer have choices, they can choose to buy or not to buy. Seller have choices too, they can choose to sell or not to sell. If both agreed to a deal, then the contract is binded as above.

If fraud happen, there's nobody else to blame except YOURSELF.

This is a forum for **** sake not a trading zone and LYN name is smelly coz of this small trading section in the forum

Not the issue, i value my privacy, thus i don't give my particulars to anyone, my address i give people most of the time is the address of a house my parents rent out to some people. Why? Because i like doing it that way. Don't like my style? Don't buy from me, it's as simple as that.

A deal thus takes 2 people to agree upon, not 1. If the buyer doesn't trust me, he can request a COD, that's fine. If i'm too lazy to COD, go find lah some other person to buy from. Yup, stuff is that simple sometimes.

The ST tag isn't and will never be a guarantee of safety, but NEITHER is a verified tag. And in my view STs being more active in the community and known by many has more to lose. Let me reitterate that it won't mean, you wont get scammed, but lowers the possibility of it due to the fact that an ST has actively traded and participated in the community. VS status doesn't prove anything because ICs can be actively altered and false documents given. It's fine if you can get someone to eyeball traders, but if you want to do it for everyone who comes through here, you better have serious moolah. Caveat Emptor, Let the Buyer Beware.

And on the newbie getting slashed because he didn't read. To me it's a simple realization of the idiom "A fool and his money are soon parted", and most scammers in the end are just 1 post wonders, promising the sun, moon and sky, easy to spot if you use your brain a little.

- unnecessary -

This post has been edited by badawi_rocks: Oct 16 2006, 04:52 PM

Firstly, it was me who deleted your post, digilife. Don't like it? Don't flame.

Secondly, I will say this once and for all - No collecting of ICs. So whatever suggetsions you have, please be sure to forget that.

The ratio of safe traders being caught up in scandals is almost nil so I don't see why we have to break that. We won't be abolishing the Safe Trader system anytime soon, in fact, we have been very stringent on the requirements of late.

Other than that, I have no idea what you're talking about, if you cared to put forth your points in logical sequence with proper typing and paragraphing, it would make it a lot easier and pleasing for the admins (who have plenty of other work to do) to read and consider.

I've repeated this over and over again. So many suggestions are drastic and require plenty of work (be it coding or supervision). Ask yourself if its really worth it. Are there *that* many cons at LYN to warrant this? How many threads are there in dispute resolution that are conjobs rather than misunderstandings or petty FFK issues? If you ask me, its making a mountain of a molehill.