I would still prefer the korean one coz even lower profile.

I not sure altay used the same french autolaoder as on the k2. Or a manned loader.

Too lazy to check out because i korean fag...

This post has been edited by thpace: May 10 2015, 02:56 PM

Looks like the Altay with a manned loader as it has a crew of 4.

I like the Altay turret than the K2. Looks much more tougher.

Recent pics the K2 are now installed with ERA.











Btw did you noticed that the Altay has 7 road wheels instead of 6 of the K2.

Most Probaly due its additional weight and standard suspension. Manmed loader usually mean extra weight

Korean one using semi active suspension plus they no need go through sandy terrain like in the middle east and using a autoloader

There a much more complete era protection last live demostration. U try the video.. this is rather basic

Wonder how the aps is proceeding. Last time planing to use russian arena

This post has been edited by thpace: May 10 2015, 04:10 PM

Haha not that weighty la, compare the 70-90kg weight of a additional manual human loader with probably hundreds of kgs weight of the rotary magazine and autoloading mechanisms prolly K2 autoloading system adds significantly much more weight la. I dunno where it ever says autoloader reduce weight, if it reduces anything its just crew number and workload.

Personally I don't favor autoloaders all that much la, its just another mechanical thing that can possibly break down in the worst moment. Also an autoloader cant help the crew replace a damaged track in the field.

This post has been edited by MilitaryMadness: May 10 2015, 05:41 PM

just read this over mp.net mk II

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ind...o-take-off-cag/

basically india will have to fight with stick and stone after 10 days.

This aspect of military is what fascinates me the mosf, the logistics. sure i oso like seeing new tanks and chopper being bought but if you cannot properly into logistics, they are just there being showpiece and all

with manned loader, you have to provide extra space, meaning bigger turret, additional armour and lastly extra weight. The only problem i see with autoloader is the lack of variety. Meaning the ammunition its fired is limited to the autoloader capabilities and its ability to switch different type of rounds when needed.

The t72 autoloader is purely mechanical and its seldom break down. Some even joke that the engine will die faster than its autoloader. BTW, it a myth that the carousel autoloader is the reason why T72 always blow its tops off. Because of the limited round the carousel (22 rounds) can hold, crew often jam packed their tank with additional rounds and propellant. Those rounds are also mostly HE rounds because tank on tanks battle are rare nowadays

as hard as korean want to admit it, their autoloader is a copy of the same used in the french leclarc tanks. Same like how korean refuse to admit their high speed train is a TGV. It bustle autoloader types compared to the russian

Here show how the autoloader in diff tank works. Although i hate to admit, Japan type 90 and type 10 autoloader look considerably safer


This post has been edited by thpace: May 10 2015, 06:46 PM

Thats why i dont say anything whenever someone open a thread in kopitiam saying indo or SG got this and that and can invade malaysia.nobody understands the importance of logistics

To put into perspective.the us army has around 500k soldiers but only 10-15 percent are combat roles.the rest are to support the 15 percent

Tensions mount after North Korea fires missiles from sub, ship



A ballistic missile is launched from a submarine in a photo provided by KCNA, North Korea's official news agency, May 9. (Photo/Xinhua)

Inter-Korean tensions escalated on Saturday as the Democratic People's Republic of Korea test-fired ballistic and cruise missiles to the eastern coast of the Korean Peninsula.

The DPRK test-fired three ship-to-ship missiles for about an hour from 4:25 pm local time (0725 UTC) off its northeast coast, the South Korean military was quoted by local media as saying.

Those were believed to be "KN-01" cruise missiles. The country's supreme leader Kim Jong-un oversaw firing of the missiles on Feb. 6.

The test-firing came after DPRK issued warnings for two consecutive days of "direct aimed strikes without any prior notice" against any South Korean navy patrol ships, which Pyongyang accused of violating the disputed western sea border.

The DPRK's southwestern front command issued the warning Friday, saying 17 South Korean naval boats intruded into its territorial waters in the past seven days.

The warning was sent via the western military communication line to South Korea's presidential office Cheong Wa-dae, and the DPRK command sent another "threatening" notice to Seoul on Saturday.

The DPRK-claimed incursion was a repeat of long-standing inter-Korean dispute over the western maritime boundary. Seoul sees the Northern Limit Line (NLL), which was drawn by US-led forces after the Korean War ended in 1953, as an official demarcation line, while Pyongyang has demanded the border farther south.

As a response, the South Korean military said on Friday that it will "sternly" retaliate against any DPRK provocations.

More alarming was the DPRK's announcement of its success in firing a submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM), which could mean more powerful nuclear threats to the US mainland as well as South Korea.

The DPRK's official KCNA news agency reported on Saturday that it has test-fired a ballistic missile from a submarine, which was overseen by top leader Kim.

It was believed to an initial phase of the SLBM, or an underwater launch of a ballistic missile "soaring into the sky," but it would be a real threat of nuclear strike against the United States and South Korea in the future.

The fully-developed SLBM would mean a DPRK submarine secretly sailing underwater to US waters and firing ballistic missiles to strike major military facilities and the mainland.

Pyongyang has test-fired long-range ballistic missiles, including intercontinental ballistic missiles, five times, and the latest was the launch of the "Unha-3" rocket to put a satellite into orbit in December 2012. It resulted in a widespread belief that Pyongyang's long-range missiles are capable of striking the western part of the US mainland.

While the ICBMs can be detected before launches by surveillance satellites and early warning aircraft, the SLBM is very hard to detect and preemptively strike. It could trigger an overhaul in South Korea's missile defense system.

The DPRK's third nuclear test in February 2013 raised concerns for its miniaturizing nuclear devices. If Pyongyang succeeds in producing a nuclear warhead that can be mounted onto the SLBM, its nuclear operational capability would become a real threat.

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclas...=20150510000135

The real navy seals: Siberian aquatic army don military gear and perform 'rifle tricks' for 70th anniversary of the Allied win in the Second World War







http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-30...-World-War.html

Affordable $20 million fighter planes



The Textron Scorpion costs $20 million, still not exactly a bargain by most people's standards, but a fifth of the cost of the F-35. It suggests that not every advanced defence project has to necessarily come in years late and billions over budget – and points to a new twist in not only the future of fighter-jet design, but also in more humanitarian roles that a budget jet could carry out.

Textron aren’t the only ones creating the tech to address this issue. The single jet fighter JF-17 is a Chinese design, currently being built in collaboration with its sole export customer, Pakistan, and is said to be available for around the same per-plane price of US$20m. Meanwhile, a Russian design, the Yak-130, has also been touted as a low-cost plane to carry out everything from air combat to reconnaissance, as well as train pilots.


The Scorpion took only two years to go from concept to its first flight (Textron)

Textron describes Scorpion as a modern "surveillance and strike" aircraft boasting:

* twin turbofan engines, producing 8,000 lbs. of combined thrust
* a 45,000-foot top altitude
* a top speed of 520 mph
* six hard points for carrying weapons on its wings (6,200 lbs. capacity)
* room for 3,000 lbs. more payload in an internal weapons bay

a flyaway cost of less than $20 million -- and an hourly operations cost of about $3,000

Relative to the A-10 Warthog, Textron's Scorpion has about half as much engine power -- but also half the weight. The aircraft's range is roughly equal to the A-10's, but the Scorpion is a better "sprinter," featuring both a faster maximum speed and a slower "stall speed" -- important for flying low-and-slow on ground support missions.

The Scorpion doesn't carry an integrated 30 mm cannon (like the A-10), its modular design permits it to carry one or even two cannon "pods" on its wings, to provide a strafing ability when there's a need to get up close and personal.

Citing research from DARPA, Anderson notes that, in decades past, it was possible to design and build a new fighter jet in five to 10 years. These days, it takes closer to 20 years to bring a new concept to market. Thus, technology that was cutting-edge when the Lockheed Martin's F-22 Raptor and F-35 Lightning II were first envisioned, for example, is now already becoming obsolete -- just as the planes are starting to fly.

To address this problem, Textron built Scorpion with off-the-shelf parts -- taking fully vetted "mature high technology" that is already available, and assembling it into a jet that's modern today -- and can be upgraded as technology advances tomorrow. This permitted an exceptionally fast turnaround time in developing the plane. As Anderson describes it, "From the time we got the 'go' signal, from a clean slate, it took 23 months for Scorpion to take its first test flight."

There are three main classes of potential customers for planes like the Scorpion, which has a top speed of around 520mph. The first are air forces who want a small jet aircraft capable of carrying out a range of strike and intelligence-gathering missions, and who have either never flown combat jets before or are looking to replace older aircraft. The second are countries who already have, or are developing, high-end fighter forces, but who might buy fewer of the more expensive jets to obtain a larger number of cheaper aircraft. The third are the major military powers who will need the advanced jets for simpler missions in low-risk environments.

http://nextbigfuture.com/2015/05/affordabl...ter-planes.html

Headsets to aid military commanders



They will be able to order the deployment of troops and drones across a virtual representation of the landscape in real situations.

British engineers from BAE Systems are working in collaboration with academics at the University of Birmingham to develop applications for the concept, which 'mixes' together the real and virtual world to allow operators to take control of their environments in a way they have not done before.

This includes a briefcase-sized portable command centre that can be set up anywhere to tackle emergency scenarios by creating a workspace that is rich in 'virtual' information. The concept of 'mixed reality' allows the operator to see themselves and their surroundings along with virtual images, video feeds, objects and avatars, bringing together the critical battlefield elements in a single place.

The technology is brought to life by an Oculus Rift style headset such as is used in video games and which could be deployed in real situations or in training. It is thought that the current demonstrator headsets could be replaced with something as small and light as a pair of spectacles within a decade and a contact lens within 20 years.

The development is also expected to assist emergency response to disaster situations.

Nick Colosimo, futurist at BAE Systems, said: "We're already seeing virtual and augmented reality becoming more commonplace in consumer products, and the possibilities it offers the armed forces are hugely exciting. Our unique approach will identify the optimal balance between the real world and the virtual - enhancing the user's situational awareness to provide battle-winning and life-saving tools and insights wherever they may be.

"Through collaborating with the University of Birmingham, we are able to bring together some of the best minds available in this subject area to develop these concepts and evolve the technology itself."

Professor Bob Stone, simulation and human factors specialist at the University of Birmingham said: "Being able to physically manipulate virtual objects in the real world has been challenging scientists for 40 years. Since my first virtual reality experience at NASA nearly 30 years ago, the technology has evolved from the primitive head-mounted displays and computers to today's world where we can interact with complex virtual objects, integrated in real-time with real-world scenarios.

"Our work with BAE Systems shows just how close we are to delivering the next generation of advanced mixed reality interfaces for future applications not only in defence, but also in such important domains as engineering and healthcare."

http://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news...ary-commanders/

Taipei signs US $2bn helicopter engine deal with US' General Electric



• General Electric will supply engines for the Sikorsky-built Black Hawk

• Number of orders for the aircraft by Taiwan not confirmed

• Taiwan is one of the largest foreign operators of the US helicopter model

TAIPEI, Taiwan - General Electric has won a US $2 billion contract to supply helicopter engines to the government of Taiwan over the next five years, the Defense Department has confirmed.

The contract, which runs through December 31, 2020, will see General Electric supplying T700 701D and T700 401C engines to Taiwan to power the popular Black Hawk helicopters built by Sikorsky Aircraft, which is owned by United Technologies Corp.

The Sikorsky UH-60 Black Hawk is a four-bladed, twin-engine, medium-lift utility helicopter which was first developed in 1972 and produced in 1976.

The UH-60A first entered service with the US Army in 1979, to replace the Bell UH-1 Iroquois, used extensively in Vietnam, as the Army's tactical transport helicopter.

Modified versions have also been developed for the US Navy, Air Force, and Coast Guard and the helicopter is a popular export for the US' military industrial complex.

Black Hawks have served in combat during conflicts in Grenada, Panama, Iraq, Somalia, the Balkans, Afghanistan, and Iraq and are currently operated by several dozen nations around the world.

Taiwan has operated S-70C-1/1A variants since the Republic of China Air Force received ten S-70C-1A and four S-70C-1 Bluehawk helicopters in June 1986, for Search And Rescue.

Four further S-70C-6s were received in April 1998 and the ROC Navy received the first of ten S-70C(M)-1s in July 1990.

A further 11 S-70C(M)-2s were received in the beginning of April 2000 and in January 2010, the US announced a Foreign Military Sale of 60 UH-60Ms to Taiwan for the ROC Army.

It is the engines for these helicopters that GE will be supplying, while also providing aftersales support for the existing aircraft operated by Taiwan.

Other major operators of the helicopter include Japan, Colombia, Turkey, China, Mexico, Israel, Brazil and Sweden. The United Arab Emirates has purchased 60 Black Hawks since 2010.

http://www.indiagazette.com/index.php/sid/232716143

I dont get what you're saying about lack of variety. Its not like the loading mechanism is a blind revolving type that fires in sequence one after another like a pistol revolver, the gunner can select what type of round the commander wants as long as it is loaded onto the magazine. The FCS can then rotate the magazine to search for the ammo type needed for the gun at the moment before loading it into the breech. You can potentially load any number of any combination of rounds (APFSDS, HEAT, HE, tube-launched ATGM) as long as they fit into the magazine.

What the real problem is usually the autoloader magazine can usually only can be loaded for the rounds it was originally designed to hold. If you ever need to use a different/new kind of round for the tank that's when you can get into trouble. For example the Soviets had a real problem when they discovered they needed to extend the length of their long rod APFSDS penetrators to better deal with the latest NATO armor tech in the 1980s. The longer penetrators did not fit the original T-72 carousel magazine and the entire line of T-72s had to be redesigned and updated with newer carousel magazines and autoloaders to allow them to use the new rounds.

This post has been edited by MilitaryMadness: May 10 2015, 09:13 PM

one is like u explain, the size of the autoloader basically dictate what type of round you can put in. unless you completely redesign it for future requirements. This what i mean as lack in variety

Malaysia in Decisive Storm?



http://www.spa.gov.sa/english/details.php?id=1359580

This post has been edited by azriel: May 10 2015, 09:35 PM

Nope, menhan himself confirms this

Thai soldier shoots dead 2 colleagues in deep south





[Insider]

Mexican Army on the move after last week’s attack by drug cartel in Jalisco



The troops have been deployed to Jalisco in the strongest show of military might ever seen in Mexico, according to a report today by Milenio.

One week after a criminal gang, believed to be the Jalisco Nueva Generación cartel, shot down a Mexican Air Force Cougar helicopter killing six soldiers, the Armed Forces are on the move.

From San José de Avila to Villa Purificación, the municipality where the attack on the helicopter took place, on the highways and on the approaches to towns in the region, usually under the control of the cartels, is an impressive display of military machinery.

French-made Panhard armoured vehicles carrying 12 soldiers are on patrol. Their 50-caliber guns will fire 1,000 rounds a minute.

But how strong is the vehicle’s armor, a soldier is asked. Strong enough to withstand the shot that took down the helicopter last Friday?

The soldier smiles and says, with typical military frugality, “Yes.”

Residents look at the show of force with astonishment, but they’re not displeased. In fact, they’re glad to see it, although none will appear in front of a camera to say so.

The military is out in full force in Jalisco (Photo: Milenio)
The military is out in full force in Jalisco (Photo: Milenio)

“The truth is, we feel more safe seeing the soldiers everywhere with those huge tanks,” says the woman at an Oxxo store.

“It’s like a movie,” says a woman to her husband while soldiers look over their truck at a checkpoint.

But the scene — armored vehicles, soldiers with bazookas on their shoulders and rocket-powered grenade launches ready to fire — is real enough.

It seems like the winds of war blow in Jalisco.

.Source: http://mexiconewsdaily.com/

Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia could extend joint patrols in South China Sea



SINGAPORE: To deal with a resurgence of piracy, navies of the littoral states - Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia - are in discussions to extend joint patrols to the lower reaches of the South China Sea where piracy hotspots are, Chief of Navy Rear-Admiral Lai Chung Han told TODAY.

However, the extension of these patrols - which have been successful in curbing piracy in the Strait of Malacca - is complicated by competing territorial claims in these waters.

“When will (the extension) be realised, we hope (it will be) sooner rather than later,” RADM Lai told the media in an interview last Friday (May 8) at Changi Naval Base, where he also talked about the terrorism threat and congested waterways in the region.

“There is concern with the proximity to the contested claims of South China Sea, and we certainly don’t want those issues to be conflated. We are very focused on dealing with the piracy situation and none of us really benefit from letting this situation fester.”

RADM Lai, 42, was giving his maiden interview as navy chief since his appointment nine months ago.

He also expressed concern about the possibility of terrorists and pirates joining hands, despite their different motives. Terrorist organisation Al Qaeda had recently urged its followers to conduct attacks on Western economic interests at strategic sea lanes, including the Strait of Malacca, he pointed out.

RADM Lai said it would be a challenge to distinguish between a pirate attack and a terror incident in the sea lanes. Nevertheless, the Singapore Maritime Crisis Centre is monitoring the situation, he added.

“Of course when there is any doubt, we never rule out the possibility that the pirates on board, or the ship that has been commandeered could also be used for terrorist purposes, and we have ... means to deal with that,” said RADM Lai.

Terrorists could hijack a fuel tanker, for example, and turn it into a floating bomb. “I think that is something that we watch very carefully, working very closely with police coast guard,” he said, adding that the strategy is to detect the situation early, and deal with it while the threat is still at a distance from the Republic’s shores.

RADM Lai also spoke about the prospect of increased military presence in the region: “In 10 years, there will be more than 100 electric diesel submarines operating in the South China Sea. The South China Sea is a small body of water if you compare it to larger oceans and for the kind of shallow waters that (are) in some parts less than 50m (deep) ... I think it is a matter of time, if it remains unregulated, for there to be an underwater incident.”

Efforts in the past to regulate the underwater space include bilateral agreements signed between Singapore and its neighbours to help submarines in distress.

For example, Singapore and Indonesia signed a submarine rescue support and cooperation agreement in 2012, under which both countries would support each other in the event of a submarine disaster.

RADM Lai said there is a need to extend such existing regulations into a regional framework for submarine safety. This can involve the sharing of best practices for certifying boats, and also sharing information about other underwater craft which are not submarines.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singap...nd/1838338.html

As long as indon doesnt let we pursue and catch the pirates in their waters, I dont think there will be drastic result.