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azriel
post May 9 2015, 12:48 PM

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QUOTE(yinchet @ May 9 2015, 11:43 AM)
That should be the measurements for poland twardy.
Malaysia uses german track mainly to lower down the ground pressure.
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Someone posted in the defence.pk forum that the ground pressure of the PT-91M is 13.2psi 0,94kg/cm2.

The German track is due to easy handling, lower maintenance, maneuverability even in difficult terrain & keeping the downtime to a minimum.

http://imtdefence.com/vehicle-components/d...-track-systems/

kerolzarmyfanboy
post May 9 2015, 12:51 PM

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QUOTE(KYPMbangi @ May 9 2015, 12:26 PM)
MiG-27 crashes in Bengal, 2 civilians die, pilot ejects safely

user posted image
[Deccan Herald]
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is it me or when other country like India, Pakistan, US, Russia, Indonesia, etc got jet accidents like that, their people doesn't seem to really care..i don't see any protest or they suing the air force for it..at most just a few news article about it then went silent....

meanwhile malaysia people...got no one killed in the accident still make a fuzz about it for months and eventually become a political tool..
thpace
post May 9 2015, 12:55 PM

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QUOTE(kerolzarmyfanboy @ May 9 2015, 12:51 PM)
is it me or when other country like India, Pakistan, US, Russia, Indonesia, etc got jet accidents like that, their people doesn't seem to really care..i don't see any protest or they suing the air force for it..at most just a few news article about it then went silent....

meanwhile malaysia people...got no one killed in the accident still make a fuzz about it for months and eventually become a political tool..
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Malaysia boleh?
kerolzarmyfanboy
post May 9 2015, 12:56 PM

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QUOTE(thpace @ May 9 2015, 12:55 PM)
Malaysia boleh?
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inbe4

kapal selam can't selam


enjin hilang




thpace
post May 9 2015, 12:59 PM

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QUOTE(kerolzarmyfanboy @ May 9 2015, 12:56 PM)
inbe4

kapal selam can't selam
enjin hilang
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like this lah
both political party are responsible for this

one scream songlap every time there something while another know there songlap but close one eyes. Those educated but brain like in kindergardern thinks that there no need for military. All can nego

If that the case, why the switzerland armed themselves even though they are neutral?
TSyinchet
post May 9 2015, 01:05 PM

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QUOTE(azriel @ May 9 2015, 12:48 PM)
Someone posted in the defence.pk forum that the ground pressure of the PT-91M is 13.2psi 0,94kg/cm2.

The German track is due to easy handling, lower maintenance, maneuverability even in difficult terrain & keeping the downtime to a minimum.

http://imtdefence.com/vehicle-components/d...-track-systems/
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Hmm, not sure I will check about it again. hmm.gif
Maneuverability probably mean having better weight distribution as well. biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by yinchet: May 9 2015, 01:08 PM
KYPMbangi
post May 9 2015, 01:15 PM

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QUOTE(yinchet @ May 9 2015, 11:06 AM)
Pt91m should have lower ground pressure compare to 3 above.
There are a picture on pt91 slightly sinking on the grounds.
Yup as heavyduty say bridges was another issues that put into consideration on weight requirements.
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QUOTE(azriel @ May 9 2015, 11:27 AM)
The PT-91 Twardy ground pressure is 0,94 kg/cm2 almost the same as the T-90.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product179.html
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QUOTE(yinchet @ May 9 2015, 11:43 AM)
That should be the measurements for poland twardy.
Malaysia uses german track mainly to lower down the ground pressure.
*
QUOTE(azriel @ May 9 2015, 12:48 PM)
Someone posted in the defence.pk forum that the ground pressure of the PT-91M is 13.2psi 0,94kg/cm2.
The German track is due to easy handling, lower maintenance, maneuverability even in difficult terrain & keeping the downtime to a minimum.
http://imtdefence.com/vehicle-components/d...-track-systems/
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Ground pressure is just one of the equation from several factors for maneuvering into difficult terrain, bear in mind that ALL TANKS WILL SINK in muddy/swampy terrain no matter what value is their ground pressure

In this case traction is more important than ground pressure, lose traction and you lose your ability to move, and the german track were chosen of the ease to change the rubber pads to grouse metal tracks for more traction in soft soil condition, also the tracks proven to be low maintenance blablabla~

The backup wooden logs on typical russian tanks are meant to provide more traction to get the tanks out from the bogs
How it is done is to chain the log to the tracks, example here shown for leo2 tank

user posted image
TSyinchet
post May 9 2015, 01:26 PM

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QUOTE(KYPMbangi @ May 9 2015, 01:15 PM)
Ground pressure is just one of the equation from several factors for maneuvering into difficult terrain, bear in mind that ALL TANKS WILL SINK in muddy/swampy terrain no matter what value is their ground pressure

In this case traction is more important than ground pressure, lose traction and you lose your ability to move, and the german track were chosen of the ease to change the rubber pads to grouse metal tracks for more traction in soft soil condition, also the tracks proven to be low maintenance blablabla~

The backup wooden logs on typical russian tanks are meant to provide more traction to get the tanks out from the bogs
How it is done is to chain the log to the tracks, example here shown for leo2 tank

user posted image
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Iirc our pendekar was sink slightly on ladang kelapa sawit. biggrin.gif
DDG_Ross
post May 9 2015, 01:39 PM

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QUOTE(KYPMbangi @ May 9 2015, 01:15 PM)
Ground pressure is just one of the equation from several factors for maneuvering into difficult terrain, bear in mind that ALL TANKS WILL SINK in muddy/swampy terrain no matter what value is their ground pressure

In this case traction is more important than ground pressure, lose traction and you lose your ability to move, and the german track were chosen of the ease to change the rubber pads to grouse metal tracks for more traction in soft soil condition, also the tracks proven to be low maintenance blablabla~

The backup wooden logs on typical russian tanks are meant to provide more traction to get the tanks out from the bogs
How it is done is to chain the log to the tracks, example here shown for leo2 tank

user posted image
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QUOTE(yinchet @ May 9 2015, 01:26 PM)
Iirc our pendekar was sink slightly on ladang kelapa sawit.  biggrin.gif
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Hehe I drive a 4x4 and I can tell you what kypmbangi says is right, no matter what vehicle they will sink to a right degree until their traction can pick up and move the vehicle.

Ground pressure just means how fast/slow you can move under certain soil condition but that also depends on your engine

fyi a typical 4x4 exerts more ground pressure than a tank but I believe tanks are more likely to sink in a mudhole, overall weight also factors in the equation
TSyinchet
post May 9 2015, 01:54 PM

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QUOTE(DDG_Ross @ May 9 2015, 01:39 PM)
Hehe I drive a 4x4 and I can tell you what kypmbangi says is right, no matter what vehicle they will sink to a right degree until their traction can pick up and move the vehicle.

Ground pressure just means how fast/slow you can move under certain soil condition but that also depends on your engine

fyi a typical 4x4 exerts more ground pressure than a tank but I believe tanks are more likely to sink in a mudhole, overall weight also factors in the equation
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Hmm, well I'm not sure how is the conditions of the soil during Eksesais rhino.
azriel
post May 9 2015, 02:02 PM

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QUOTE(yinchet @ May 9 2015, 01:05 PM)
Hmm, not sure I will check about it again. hmm.gif
Maneuverability probably mean having better weight distribution as well. biggrin.gif
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It is more towards tractions as KYPMbangi said. You need also an engine with more horse power.

K1A1 for example:

QUOTE
The Kl is equipped with a turbo-charged 1,200hp MTU MB 871 diesel engine providing a power to weight ratio of 23.5hp/t. The transmission has a planetary gear train and a hydrodynamic torque converter. In high gear, the Kl can attain a maximum road speed of approximately 65km/h. The low ground pressure of 0.87kg/cm² enables it to successfully manoeuvre in sodden or sandy terrain.

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/k1/


This post has been edited by azriel: May 9 2015, 02:03 PM
DDG_Ross
post May 9 2015, 02:06 PM

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QUOTE(yinchet @ May 9 2015, 01:54 PM)
Hmm, well I'm not sure how is the conditions of the soil during Eksesais rhino.
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depends, vehicle are more likely to sink slightly more on top of unprepared/undisturbed grounds cuz their soil compaction is still loose (dirt road soil compaction is very compact due to the regular vehicle usage compacting the soil)

Is the tank sitting on undisturbed ground? that still have shrubs/bushes growing?
thpace
post May 9 2015, 02:12 PM

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QUOTE(yinchet @ May 9 2015, 01:54 PM)
Hmm, well I'm not sure how is the conditions of the soil during Eksesais rhino.
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this?
user posted image
TSyinchet
post May 9 2015, 02:13 PM

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QUOTE(DDG_Ross @ May 9 2015, 02:06 PM)
depends, vehicle are more likely to sink slightly more on top of unprepared/undisturbed grounds cuz their soil compaction is still loose (dirt road soil compaction is very compact due to the regular vehicle usage compacting the soil)

Is the tank sitting on undisturbed ground? that still have shrubs/bushes growing?
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Hmm, I try to find the pic but my google skill failed me. sweat.gif
the only pic I found is these.
user posted image
those pic were posted on military threads but forgot which version. laugh.gif
I need to look back the pic to be sure on the soil condition.

This post has been edited by yinchet: May 9 2015, 02:16 PM
TSyinchet
post May 9 2015, 02:14 PM

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QUOTE(thpace @ May 9 2015, 02:12 PM)
this?
user posted image
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Nope another pic which have clearer picture on the track.
DDG_Ross
post May 9 2015, 02:22 PM

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QUOTE(thpace @ May 9 2015, 02:12 PM)
this?
user posted image
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Meh, that is nothing

In 4x4 world if you can still see the tyre you're still good to go
MilitaryMadness
post May 9 2015, 03:40 PM

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QUOTE(thpace @ May 9 2015, 01:10 AM)
the type59 have long been abonden

t72 betul...MBT-2000 hull very similar to t72 but later variant slowly move away

China also manage to get a sample courtesy of u know who
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Actually MBT-2000 is a Type 90 MBT, not T-72.
PRC never got to import the T-72 due to the Sino-Soviet split, where they had their own little cold war. They may have copied (stole) its features here and there, but PRC never had a full version of the T-72. All PRC tanks are based from the Type 59 (Russian T-54) added with their own local designs.

Meanwhile Russia basically abandoned the T-54/55 and T-62 design in favor of starting the fresh design of the T-64 MBT which later spawned the T-72, which is essentially a downgraded version of the T-64 tank. Soviets actually wanted to make the T-64 its frontline MBT but the cheaper and easier-to-build T-72 eventually won out due to economical reasons.

So basically PRC tank design family tree :
(1st gen)Type 59--->Type 69-->(2nd gen)Type 80-->Type 90-->(3rd gen)Type 96-->Type 99

Meanwhile Soviet/Russian tank design family tree:
(1st gen) T-54/55-->T-62(dead end)
(2nd gen) T-64-->T-72-->(3rd gen)T-80-->T-84-->T-90
hafizushi
post May 9 2015, 04:23 PM

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QUOTE(Frozen_Sun @ May 9 2015, 09:44 AM)
Even Abrams' APFSDS may not be able to penetrate the Relikt-protected turret.....1100+mm RHA equivalent if I'm not mistaken

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look gooding drool.gif


thpace
post May 9 2015, 07:44 PM

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QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ May 9 2015, 03:40 PM)
Actually MBT-2000 is a Type 90 MBT, not T-72.
PRC never got to import the T-72 due to the Sino-Soviet split, where they had their own little cold war. They may have copied (stole) its features here and there, but PRC never had a full version of the T-72. All PRC tanks are based from the Type 59 (Russian T-54) added with their own local designs.

Meanwhile Russia basically abandoned the T-54/55 and T-62 design in favor of starting the fresh design of the T-64 MBT which later spawned the T-72, which is essentially a downgraded version of the T-64 tank. Soviets actually wanted to make the T-64 its frontline MBT but the cheaper and easier-to-build T-72 eventually won out due to economical reasons.
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Yes, china mainly based their tank on the type 59 pre-80s

But they soon discovered that even its improved version canot match the performance of the T72. It just outdated design

So what they did was, (since unable to get those T72s, they get a sample from the Africa. Not to copy it but to study its design (Not sure who but . Some china forum was discussing this)

The armor technology is based on their own development but the layouts is similar up to the external hull. The type 80 is development result of the t72 study and combining western technology. Further development soon move away from te t72 based design onward to their own indigenous design.
xtemujin
post May 9 2015, 08:23 PM

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Airbus A400M destined for Turkish Air Force crashed during test flight near Seville Airport.

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