Brother UW, please read the whole things, I did not mentioned anything about linking christian to old testament, in fact old covenant is for the Jews

What kind of church are you looking for?

There is alot of churches in penang island with different denominations as well

It really depends. If their livelihood depends on this as ministry then they are entitled to be paid. Why? Because they don't hold any other jobs.
Note down this verse, Tina. Remember it when sadtosee (Sadducees) people try to hoodwink you with holier than God attitude.

1 Corinthians 9:14 - In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

As for the profit, it is needed to ensure continuity, God knows we are living in this age and time, He is not blind.
If profit is for the entire organization as a whole, I'm okay with that. A lot of people don't know that Hillsong is not just concert ministry, they have Hillsong College.

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Some hypocrites with pharisaical spirit will tell you worldliness is how things look, the loud sounds (lol, some quoted Hillsong) or how you look, you dress, your thick makeup (lol), hair style.

That is not what the Bible says.


1 John 2: (ESV) - 15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life c—is not from the Father but is from the world. 17 And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever.

What is worldly is derived from 3 things

1. Lust of the Flesh (Acts that's displeasing to God, like Sexual lust, Rage, Jealousy, etc)
2. Lust of the Eye (to covet something to the point, you elevate it above God, KK's case for example)
3. Pride of Life (Arrogant Boasting, etc)

And do you want God's diagnosis, why people love the world? It is not what you think or what most people think it is.

Here is the answer, (ESV) translation in verse 15 have it quite accurate:

If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

It means that, the reason why they love the world is because they don't understand or have the revelation of the Father's Love in their Life. If they understand how much the Father loves them, the power of Jesus's Grace can come in to change their life.

It's not because they don't love the Father as some translation have it.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 11 2015, 10:46 AM

When you mention coexist............., help me to understand what you mean.

If you're saying both covenants co-exists because the OT Law is to point unbelievers to Christ. That's is never in dispute. I think the (entire world) body of Christ agrees to this.
If you're saying both covenants co-exists because it is needed for believers to uphold it's moral law, else we subject ourselves to sin then there will be a problem*.

*Problem: We got our Salvation because we uphold the Law. Again pointing to works.

Protip: I not suggesting we go living licentious lifestyle.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 11 2015, 09:21 AM

He is correcting his previous statement that both coexist

ok, brb.

Protestant church... Any recommendations

Hi

It wasn't about the OT and NT.

It was about Grace and Law.

The OT does not equate Law. That"s a fallacy. Grace has been shown by God throughout the OT.
The OT saints are saved through their faith in God and thus accorded righteousness. Hebs 11

NO ONE is saved by the law. Thats not the purpose of the law.
Neither are you saved by the New Testament! You are saved by grace of God through Faith in the Lord Jesus.
Its the same through out the OT and NT. God's salvation plan is the same.

I know you're looking for protestant church but I need more information like what type or church you like charismatic or traditional type?

Please forgive me if I offended you in my writing here, when I said OT is way for the Jews to be saved, I meant it. However Jesus did also said I did not come to abolish the laws(OT) but to renew it. (NT)

OT coexist with new testament because they complete each other as new testament is the fulfilment of the old testament,

Old testament help us to understand The Lord and what He wanted us to follow and obey which was eventually in the new testament Jesus come to earth as a mortal to spread God love to the Jews and gentiles but however the Jews rejected Jesus

No

The Jews were not saved by obeying the law. Jesus came not to abolish the law but fulfil it. The word fulfil here is to bring enlightenment to it.
Thats why He preached and expounded on the spirit of the law.

The sermon on the mount:

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed * the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. 21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill ; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say , Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire

27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery : 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

On the salvation of Jews in the OT, its the same as any of us.
Salvation is by Faith In God through His grace. Rom 4, Heb 11

No need to apologize la Bro, somehow with the rest and you, I have no problem discussing this.

The Old Testament was not written just for Jews. In the lineage of Jesus Himself, there is mention of a Hittite (Urriah), a Moabite (Ruth), and a woman of Jericho (Rahab).
The promise to Abraham was that he would be a blessing to all people--not just his own descendants through Isaac.

Jesus came to fulfilled it, not renew. Do you know why? Because if any of us could fulfilled it......you get the idea? He didn't have to come.

Hebrews 8:13 does not agree that the OT Coexist completing the New Covenant.

The Old Testament is to help to understand we cannot follow and obey God completely neither make us holy nor righteous. It wasn't designed for that purpose.

The problem with the OT, it causes Man to focus on Himself (everything about self, non of God) - I got it because I obeyed. whereas the New Covenant causes Man to focus on Christ because I got it because He obeyed (Romans 5:19). So you can't have both as in completeness because it contradicts each other in justification.

Hmmm .... if you are open to see a little more details to OT, that there is the covenant of promise before the covenant of the law. Now I know that old covenant we often speak of denotes not only the old covenant under the law; sometimes it also denotes the entire age of the Old Testament.

But according to the old covenant of the law, there were certainly no saved ones, but according to the entire age of the Old Testament, there were still many saved ones. For example, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were all people in the age of the Old Testament, but they were all saved. However, they were not saved under the old covenant of the law. They did not belong to the old covenant of the law but to the eternal covenant God made with Abraham.

The new covenant is the continuation of the covenant God made with Abraham. This matter is clearly explained in Galatians 3 and 4. Originally, there was the covenant of Abraham. Then the covenant of law was added, and following this, the new covenant. The covenant of law inserted in between was temporary.

In time God recovered the covenant of Abraham, which became the new covenant. Therefore, there are saved ones only under the covenant of Abraham and the new covenant; there are no saved ones under the covenant of law. Under the covenant of law, what men saw was Mount Sinai. This mountain had fire, darkness, gloom, a whirlwind, the sound of a trumpet, and a terrible voice. Yet in the covenant of grace, including the covenant of Abraham and the new covenant, there are Mount Zion in the heavens, the city of the living God, the angels, the church, the God who judges all, the spirits of those who were saved under the covenant of Abraham in the Old Testament age, Jesus the Mediator of a new covenant, and His sprinkled blood. These are all matters of the new covenant.

There are about 7 billion people on earth and I am willing to go as far as to say there are about 7 billion viewpoints on God.

Lets accept that we will always have our personal viewpoints on the OT, the NT, Law and Grace.

Instead of focusing on our differences, should we focus instead on the common ground we all hold to?

i.e That Jesus Christ and His work on the Cross brings salvation for all mankind?

From a personal perspective, the disagreement that we have is similar to whether we should eat a soft boiled egg from the sharp end or the round end.
We should not forget the most important thing is we get to eat the EGG.

Does it really matter to God? Should it really matter to us?
Isn't God big enough to correct my brethren, if they are wrong, in a manner they are likely to learn from, and it is not necessary that I have to be the instrument to do it?

We have all heard how God appeared personally to various people when He really wants something done.

Joshua in the OT, Paul in the NT, and Sadul Sundar Singh from contemporary times.

I personally enjoy the banter much more than the "serious" stuff that flares up from time to time.

I would enjoy seeing more sharing on God's goodness, prayer requests and the occasional teaching, as long as it is not seriously offtrack.

You need forgiveness from us?

What is BGR?

Sadly, this is the principle of sowing and reaping in action.

When we have moaned and groaned about our Boy Girl Relationship problems in so many places, we can't blame people for labeling us as such.

You feel condemnation?

Why don't you try this.

Forget about yourself for few days.

Think of others, whom you know, need help.

This is a biblical principal.



This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 11 2015, 01:45 PM

bro, when ppl asking protestant church, imho it refers to traditional church protestant but not roman catholic
put it bluntly, the church that does not speak tongue in public or like prophetjul say: no babbling please in public

i don't think there is traditional charismatic nor traditional pentecostal.

I stand to be corrected.

would you mind to shut up please, he is asking for protestant church and protestant church does not limited to traditional churches only it does include charismatic churches as well.....although not under the same doctrine but still they are considered protestant church