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 The Official Lowyat.NET Sintua Thread, A thread on Chinese folk religion.

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ABS2014
post Jan 28 2015, 05:19 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Jan 28 2015, 04:04 PM)
No one worships the Greek gods anymore...not that I know of..lol.
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^^ he insinuates that nobody worships greek gods...but still got chinese do that...so chinese religion are fake, based on his views. next you will see him criticizing from the idolatry viewpoint.
SUSDeadlocks
post Jan 28 2015, 06:16 PM

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QUOTE(ABS2014 @ Jan 28 2015, 05:19 PM)
^^ he insinuates that nobody worships greek gods...but still got chinese do that...so chinese religion are fake, based on his views. next you will see him criticizing from the idolatry viewpoint.
*
I like how you purposely avoid my questions, and then made all kinds of assumptions about me.

To be fair, have I avoided your question, and made assumptions about you?
SUSredisthcan
post Jan 28 2015, 06:47 PM

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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Jan 28 2015, 03:10 PM)
May I kindly seek clarification from you guys on how the Chinese folk religion is dissimilar to the Greek mythology?
Unlike the Greek gods, our gods have a strong moral compass. tongue.gif
SUSDeadlocks
post Jan 28 2015, 06:50 PM

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QUOTE(nachtsider @ Jan 28 2015, 06:47 PM)
Unlike the Greek gods, our gods have a strong moral compass. tongue.gif
*
That's true. All I hear from Greek gods are how they bully human beings.
Joey Christensen
post Jan 28 2015, 07:14 PM

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Holy shit. I need to park here.

Addendum: Just the way I like it. Pictures and wall of text. Great stuff. Thanks for sharing. Be right back later tonight.

This post has been edited by Joey Christensen: Jan 28 2015, 07:17 PM
SUSDeadlocks
post Jan 28 2015, 09:35 PM

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QUOTE(nachtsider @ Dec 28 2014, 07:47 AM)

A lot of misconceptions, ignorant beliefs, etc concerning the sintua scene have been going around; perhaps this thread can be used as an educational tool. I'm more than happy to answer questions, clarify facts and so on.

*
What are the usual misconceptions and ignorance do you usually come across?
SUSredisthcan
post Jan 29 2015, 04:17 AM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Jan 28 2015, 04:18 PM)
If I recall correctly from one of the guaitan series when they filmed in Perak, a medium supposedly under trance of Li Ya Pek, came and disturb a filming of guaitan, so the sifu uttered some mantra to close the session invoking the heavenly armies, and the medium gave out a shriek....lol.
怪谈 is a load of horseshit, lol.

And 'Master Szeto' is a very unethical man.
SUSDeadlocks
post Jan 29 2015, 03:05 PM

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QUOTE(nachtsider @ Dec 28 2014, 07:47 AM)
A lot of misconceptions, ignorant beliefs, etc concerning the sintua scene have been going around; perhaps this thread can be used as an educational tool. I'm more than happy to answer questions, clarify facts and so on.

*
What are the usual misconceptions and ignorance do you usually come across?
SUSredisthcan
post Jan 29 2015, 04:02 PM

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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Jan 29 2015, 03:05 PM)
What are the usual misconceptions and ignorance do you usually come across?
Easy, man - I'll get to every question people pose here, when I'm good and ready. tongue.gif

The misconceptions and ignorant beliefs I often come across, to name a few, are:

1. Chinese gods are omnipotent and can help with any matter under the sun.

False. Chinese gods are not all-powerful or all-knowing, and they have specific areas of expertise. You don't call a plumber for help if you have a toothache.

2. The burning of paper offerings for your ancestors and loved ones results in the paper items materialising on the other side as the real thing, thus allowing the recipients to enjoy them right away.

False. Burning paper offerings is merely a signal - a message to the Netherworld paymasters (whom I will speak more of later) to issue the intended recipients with spiritual equivalents on the other side. If one does not address the offerings to the intended recipient, no signal will be received and nothing will be issued.

A very important point should be made here. Even in instances where the message has been received, there is no guarantee that the recipients will automatically receive what has been issued. All offerings are screened by the Netherworld paymasters prior to being distributed. If the intended recipient has been a particularly bad or unrepentant person, they will be barred from receiving their packages, or worse. These offerings will be released only once appropriate penance has been paid, or instead redistributed to those who are more worthy.

You only get what you deserve. No more, no less.

3. One is allowed to own houses, limousines, servants and other luxury items after they die.

False. The Netherworld is a place for penance and spiritual cultivation, not a place for you to make merry. On the other side, your belongings are limited to food, basic clothing and a small amount of cash (provided by your loved ones/descendants, as above).

Burning luxury items is a downright waste of time and money.

4. Chinese gods are indiscriminate bringers of wealth and prosperity, and will gladly supply you with lottery numbers.

False. Chinese gods generally issue such assistance only to raise money for charity events, raise money for their houses of worship, or to help those who are in true financial need, such as sick people who have hefty medical bills.

If you are more than capable of earning your own living and are not in financial trouble, do not expect monetary help of any kind. Bald-facedly request lotto numbers and you may be ignored, scolded for being materialistic, told to get lost, or, if you are a less-than-virtuous person, receive a punishment, depending on which deity you are dealing with.

5. Chinese folk religion practitioners cannot eat beef.

False. This belief only applies to certain Guan Yin worshippers, who subscribe to a version of her legend that states how her father, the cruel King Miao Zhong, was reborn as an ox as part of his penance, with her devotees abstaining from beef out of deference to him. I say 'certain Guan Yin worshippers' because not all Guan Yin worshippers put credence in this story.

6. Hell deities are creatures of ill-omen and should be avoided.

False. As discussed earlier, Hell deities are the spiritual police force and judicial system. They may look frightful, but are upright and virtuous beings, who will not harm the good-hearted and the innocent. The 'noble monster' concept is one that they perfectly personify.

"You need not fear me unless you are a black hearted scoundrel," a Hell deity is on record as saying. "So - are you afraid?"
SUSDeadlocks
post Jan 29 2015, 04:12 PM

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QUOTE(nachtsider @ Jan 29 2015, 04:02 PM)
Easy, man - I'll get to every question people pose here, when I'm good and ready. tongue.gif

The misconceptions and ignorant beliefs I often come across, to name a few, are:

1. Chinese gods are omnipotent and can help with any matter under the sun.

False. Chinese gods are not all-powerful or all-knowing, and they have specific areas of expertise. You don't call a plumber for help if you have a toothache.

2. The burning of paper offerings for your ancestors and loved ones results in the paper items materialising on the other side as the real thing, thus allowing the recipients to enjoy them right away.

False. Burning paper offerings is merely a signal - a message to the Netherworld paymasters (whom I will speak more of later) to issue the intended recipients with spiritual equivalents on the other side. If one does not address the offerings to the intended recipient, no signal will be received and nothing will be issued.

A very important point should be made here. Even in instances where the message has been received, there is no guarantee that the recipients will automatically receive what has been issued. All offerings are screened by the Netherworld paymasters prior to being distributed. If the intended recipient has been a particularly bad or unrepentant person, they will be barred from receiving their packages, or worse. These offerings will be released only once appropriate penance has been paid, or instead redistributed to those who are more worthy.

You only get what you deserve. No more, no less.

3. One is allowed to own houses, limousines, servants and other luxury items after they die.

False. The Netherworld is a place for penance and spiritual cultivation, not a place for you to make merry. On the other side, your belongings are limited to food, basic clothing and a small amount of cash (provided by your loved ones/descendants, as above).

Burning luxury items is a downright waste of time and money.

4. Chinese gods are indiscriminate bringers of wealth and prosperity, and will gladly supply you with lottery numbers.

False. Chinese gods generally issue such assistance only to raise money for charity events, raise money for their houses of worship, or to help those who are in true financial need, such as sick people who have hefty medical bills.

If you are more than capable of earning your own living and are not in financial trouble, do not expect monetary help of any kind. Bald-facedly request lotto numbers and you may be ignored, scolded for being materialistic, told to get lost, or, if you are a less-than-virtuous person, receive a punishment, depending on which deity you are dealing with.

5. Chinese folk religion practitioners cannot eat beef.

False. This belief only applies to certain Guan Yin worshippers, who subscribe to a version of her legend that states how her father, the cruel King Miao Zhong, was reborn as an ox as part of his penance, with her devotees abstaining from beef out of deference to him. I say 'certain Guan Yin worshippers' because not all Guan Yin worshippers put credence in this story.

6. Hell deities are creatures of ill-omen and should be avoided.

False. As discussed earlier, Hell deities are the spiritual police force and judicial system. They may look frightful, but are upright and virtuous beings, who will not harm the good-hearted and the innocent. The 'noble monster' concept is one that they perfectly personify.

"You need not fear me unless you are a black hearted scoundrel," a Hell deity is on record as saying. "So - are you afraid?"
*
Interesting.

Are there any teachings of morality for the worshipers?

SUSredisthcan
post Jan 29 2015, 05:44 PM

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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Jan 29 2015, 04:12 PM)
Interesting.

Are there any teachings of morality for the worshipers?
Don't be an *******, is the bedrock of it.

We believe that the context of a sin is always taken into consideration during final judgement - for instance, a woman who cheats on or murders her abusive husband will probably be a sympathetic defendant.

Also, unlike the Abrahamic religions, our beliefs do not consider things like atheism and homosexuality to be inherently wrong.
SUSDeadlocks
post Jan 29 2015, 05:57 PM

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QUOTE(nachtsider @ Jan 29 2015, 05:44 PM)
Don't be an *******, is the bedrock of it.

We believe that the context of a sin is always taken into consideration during final judgement - for instance, a woman who cheats on or murders her abusive husband will probably be a sympathetic defendant.

Also, unlike the Abrahamic religions, our beliefs do not consider things like atheism and homosexuality to be inherently wrong.
*
Thank you.

Except that there are different interpretations of the Abrahamic religion of course, where they aren't necessarily wrong.

Is there a reason why is it also called the "folk" religion?

This post has been edited by Deadlocks: Jan 29 2015, 05:58 PM
yeeck
post Jan 29 2015, 07:51 PM

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QUOTE(nachtsider @ Jan 29 2015, 04:17 AM)
怪谈 is a load of horseshit, lol.

And 'Master Szeto' is a very unethical man.
*
Actually I remember it wasn't master szetho but another sifu whose name escaped my memory now. I'll try to search it on YouTube and post the link here once I found it.

Found it: Part 1
Part 2

The Li Ya Pek medium appears in Part 2.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Jan 30 2015, 01:15 AM
jonoave
post Jan 30 2015, 07:20 AM

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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Jan 28 2015, 10:10 AM)
May I kindly seek clarification from you guys on how the Chinese folk religion is dissimilar to the Greek mythology?
*
QUOTE(yeeck @ Jan 28 2015, 11:04 AM)
No one worships the Greek gods anymore...not that I know of..lol.
*
Well, there has been a comeback of sorts for Greek gods. But these days it's more like a paganims than an actual religion.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/feb/01/religion.uk
http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/2004/08/Ou...ser-To-Us.aspx#

Interestingly, the greek gods are also not omnipotent. They can be cruel, get tricked, injured etc. One of the Greek goddess, Hebe

One of the greek goddess, Hecate, has undergone many interpretations and is associated with sorcery, withcraft etc. She is a popular figure among pagan and Wiccans.

Btw, worship of greek gods in the past is also similar to worship of some chinese deities in the past (if I'm not mistaken). Some of the greek gods are petty and selfish, and people give offerings to different gods to appease them and prevent misfortune.


EnergyAnalyst
post Jan 30 2015, 09:56 AM

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Hi Nacht

I am full of questions and need your advise....

First, about death, i have heard so many story about asking the well being of the dead via 问米 practice and medium. I have no personal experience but have heard so many stories but remained ill informed and unconvinced despite however firmly those that have experienced it spoken of it with such conviction

How is this possible? Since the dead are all either locked up in hell for all sort of punishment, or get reborn once drinking Meng Poh soup the and crossing the 奈何 bridge ?

If indeed 问米 is a proper practice, then Which deity is helping with this process? etc.?


My second questions:

Since Chinese deities are all having their own area of expertise, if we want to seek help for some common problems (non monetary) we faces, can you recommend which is the deity we should turn too

A. Heath
B. Love affair
C. Mental Health/Depression
D. Career
E. Study

I know i am asking a lot but i sincerely hope you can help educate us, when the student is ready, please be the sifu




SUSredisthcan
post Jan 30 2015, 10:43 AM

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Hi Energy,

QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Jan 30 2015, 09:56 AM)
Hi Nacht

I am full of questions and need your advise....

First, about death, i have heard so many story about asking the well being of the dead via  问米 practice and medium. I have no personal experience but have heard so many stories but remained ill informed and unconvinced despite however firmly those that have experienced it spoken of it with such conviction

How is this possible? Since the dead are all either locked up in hell for all sort of punishment, or get reborn once drinking Meng Poh soup the and crossing the 奈何 bridge ?

If indeed  问米 is a proper practice, then Which deity is helping with this process? etc.?
Dying is all about letting go - about severing earthly ties, including ties with your surviving loved ones. Such ties will only serve to hinder spiritual cultivation on the other side, and hinder the process of escaping the cycle of death and rebirth.

It is for this purpose that the fates of the deceased, including the nature of the penance they are paying, plus whether or not they have reincarnated, are not something that is disclosed - not in detail, at least. The Hell deities are the custodians of such information, and it is only through them that such information may be obtained. They are the facilitators, the go-betweens.

In response to queries about deceased loved ones, the Hell deities may give some very general comments ("Don't worry; all is well." "He is undergoing his training." "She is making progress."). They may instruct one to increase the frequency of ancestral offerings, which may indicate that the deceased are progressing well or being model inmates, and thus deserving of more. They may instruct one to offer specific items on specific dates, which may be instrumental in assisting the spiritual cultivation of the deceased. They may occasionally convey a message from the deceased, although this is extremely rare and usually occurs only early in the game. Otherwise, don't expect very much to be revealed.

Do not put ANY credence in someone who claims to be able to directly channel the spirits of your deceased relatives (i.e. make them speak through him or otherwise possess his body). Souls cannot be raised or recalled to the human realm just like that.

QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Jan 30 2015, 09:56 AM)
My second questions:

Since Chinese deities are all having their own area of expertise, if we want to seek help for some common problems (non monetary) we faces, can you recommend which is the deity we should turn too

A. Heath
B. Love affair
C.  Mental Health/Depression
D. Career
E. Study

I know i am asking a lot but i sincerely hope you can help educate us, when the student is ready, please be the sifu
Physical and mental health are matters that one should visit a doctor or psychiatrist/psychologist about, first and foremost. It is quite common for a deity to advise a sick person to seek medical or psychiatric help. Do not make a temple or sintua your first port of call when you are ill - dial the emergency services number or get to a hospital instead.

I will be posting some information about gods who specialise in these assorted matters later today and later in the weekend. Don't touch that dial. smile.gif
EnergyAnalyst
post Jan 30 2015, 11:02 AM

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QUOTE(nachtsider @ Jan 30 2015, 10:43 AM)
Hi Energy,
Dying is all about letting go - about severing earthly ties, including ties with your surviving loved ones. Such ties will only serve to hinder spiritual cultivation on the other side, and hinder the process of escaping the cycle of death and rebirth.

It is for this purpose that the fates of the deceased, including the nature of the penance they are paying, plus whether or not they have reincarnated, are not something that is disclosed - not in detail, at least. The Hell deities are the custodians of such information, and it is only through them that such information may be obtained. They are the facilitators, the go-betweens.

In response to queries about deceased loved ones, the Hell deities may give some very general comments ("Don't worry; all is well." "He is undergoing his training." "She is making progress."). They may instruct one to increase the frequency of ancestral offerings, which may indicate that the deceased are progressing well or being model inmates, and thus deserving of more. They may instruct one to offer specific items on specific dates, which may be instrumental in assisting the spiritual cultivation of the deceased. They may occasionally convey a message from the deceased, although this is extremely rare and usually occurs only early in the game. Otherwise, don't expect very much to be revealed.

Do not put ANY credence in someone who claims to be able to directly channel the spirits of your deceased relatives (i.e. make them speak through him or otherwise possess his body). Souls cannot be raised or recalled to the human realm just like that.
Physical and mental health are matters that one should visit a doctor or psychiatrist/psychologist about, first and foremost. It is quite common for a deity to advise a sick person to seek medical or psychiatric help. Do not make a temple or sintua your first port of call when you are ill - dial the emergency services number or get to a hospital instead.

I will be posting some information about gods who specialise in these assorted matters later today and later in the weekend. Don't touch that dial. smile.gif
*
notworthy.gif as usual , good answers and most importantly a trustworthy and honest answers.

Just to clarify: when someone feel ill, yes a GP is sought first, if still have no remedies, specialist are sought, in a case of my very close one, we have visited so many specialists clinics at Sunway X 2 specialist, Pantai X 3 speciliats, and some other specialists clinics. but the problem still persisted and not cured. and all i can see is a prolonged suffering, i heard some temples are famous for praying for and asking for healing, There is one in PJ but we don't see improvement, may be it is because we have prayed wrongly or not sincerely enough....I am seeking for a god of healing/health to answer my prayer so appreciate it if someone whom i can trust to point the rightful way (God knows how many are con man, like the medium who claim can call out for the ded spirit to come back and talk through them)

TQVM , looking forward to later today or later in weekend rclxms.gif
SUSDeadlocks
post Jan 30 2015, 03:15 PM

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QUOTE(jonoave @ Jan 30 2015, 07:20 AM)
Well, there has been a comeback of sorts for Greek gods. But these days it's more like a paganims than an actual religion.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/feb/01/religion.uk
http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/2004/08/Ou...ser-To-Us.aspx#

Interestingly, the greek gods are also not omnipotent. They can be cruel, get tricked, injured etc. One of the Greek goddess, Hebe

One of the greek goddess, Hecate, has undergone many interpretations and is associated with sorcery, withcraft etc. She is a popular figure among pagan and Wiccans.

Btw, worship of greek gods in the past is also similar to worship of some chinese deities in the past (if I'm not mistaken). Some of the greek gods are petty and selfish, and people give offerings to different gods to appease them and prevent misfortune.
*
Interesting. Do you wish to address this post, nachtsider?

In addition, this as well, thank you:

QUOTE(nachtsider @ Jan 29 2015, 05:44 PM)
Don't be an *******, is the bedrock of it.

We believe that the context of a sin is always taken into consideration during final judgement - for instance, a woman who cheats on or murders her abusive husband will probably be a sympathetic defendant.

Also, unlike the Abrahamic religions, our beliefs do not consider things like atheism and homosexuality to be inherently wrong.
*
Thank you.

Except that there are different interpretations of the Abrahamic religion of course, where they aren't necessarily wrong.

Is there a reason why is it also called the "folk" religion?

This post has been edited by Deadlocks: Jan 30 2015, 03:15 PM
SUSredisthcan
post Jan 30 2015, 11:48 PM

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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Jan 30 2015, 03:15 PM)
Interesting. Do you wish to address this post, nachtsider?

In addition, this as well, thank you:
Thank you.

Except that there are different interpretations of the Abrahamic religion of course, where they aren't necessarily wrong.

Is there a reason why is it also called the "folk" religion?
Again, I will reply to your questions when I am good and ready. There is no need to repeat or repost them. tongue.gif

Unlike in Greek mythology, you will be VERY hard pressed to find a cruel or petty Chinese god. As I said before, our gods have strong moral compasses.

Chinese folk religion is so termed because it is a true 'grassroots' faith - it lacks a formal clergy and formal religious text, having sprung forth from folklore, legend and popular myth, passed down mostly orally over innumerable generations. Achieving consolidation and widespread subscription despite no formal organisation, it therefore truly is a 'religion of the people'.
ABS2014
post Jan 31 2015, 01:09 AM

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nice chinese christians have insidiously hijack the thread by asking seemingly-harmless questions to indirectly demean chinese religion and insinuate that chinese religions are backwards (while christianity are forward-thinking). can be seen from d.... and j.... post.

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