According to Chinese Folklore, there is 10 Hell Temple (10殿阎王), each Temple will have their own Yan Wang 阎王 and Black/White Wu Chang黑白无常
(Although thru out the years, I learn that is 10 figure is largely vague, same say 4, some say 18)

Maybe this is the Second Elder Brother from 4th Temple?

JunJun's explanation seems the most likely solution to the mystery, although I would like to clarify a little regarding the Ten Courts of Hell, and additional pairs of Black and White Brothers.

The Chinese Hell is divided into Ten Courts/地狱十殿. The First Court is where souls are judged for their wrongdoings, the Second to Ninth Courts are where souls undergo penance or punishment for their misdeeds, and the Tenth Court is where souls are sent to be reincarnated after they serve their sentences.

Courts 1-9 each have two levels, totalling 18 - the Eighteen Levels of Hell/地狱十八层. Each level is very vast, akin to a huge complex of correction facilities, prison cells and torture chambers. The lower numbered Courts/Levels are like low-security facilities, for minor offenders, and the higher numbered Courts/Levels are like maximum-security facilities, for the worst offenders. Court Nine/Level 17-18 would therefore be a much worse place to be in than Court Two/Level 3-4.

Take note, however, that not all penance involves blood, gore and violence. Minor misdeeds may be addressed with tasks such as studying/reproducing holy texts, or terms of servitude under a deity or deities. Also, punishments always take into consideration the context/circumstances of a misdeed. Judgement is eminently fair.

Each Court is presided over by a Judge with a kingly rank - a King of Hell/阎罗王. The leader of the Ten Judges/Ten Kings holds the title of Imperial Magistrate/阎罗天子 - he is none other than the legendary Justice Bao/包公大人.





The original pair of Black and White Brothers have been joined, over the centuries, by additional pairs. In other words, they are an army, and not just two individuals. Some of the additional pairs are aspects/proxies (i.e. clones - see my previous post on aspects/proxies) of the original pair; others are unique individuals with unique backgrounds, such as Epsilon's suicided scholar probably is.

Different pairs of Black and White Brothers are usually identified by which Court of Hell they originate from; e.g. Sixth Court Elder and Second Brother/第六殿大二爷伯. However, a Second Brother from the Fourth Court of Hell ought to be referred to as Si Dian Li Ya Pek/四殿二爷伯, not Si Ya Pek/四伯爷.

My teacher's temple features six pairs of Black and White Brothers, from the First, Third, Fourth, Fifth, Seventh and Eighth Courts of Hell. And I pray to four pairs of them at home; they are from the First, Fourth, Seventh and Ninth Courts of Hell.

This is why a trance session is usually conducted within the confines of a temple or sintua, where spiritual security measures are in place. Such measures include the presence of Heavenly armies like those of the Five Camp Commanders, or Hellish troops such as the Five Ghosts and Nine Nether Realm Vanguards/Nine Yin Warriors. I will speak about them later.

One should not channel in an unfamiliar or spiritually insecure environment.

What I learned is slightly different from yours.

I was educated that, The Underworld (地府) is headed by East Mountain Emperor 东岳泰山天齐仁圣大帝
Then the capital of Underworld is Feng Du 北阴酆都, govern by Emperor of Feng Du 北阴酆都大, which is aided by Five Ghostly Emperor 五方鬼帝

Then there is the Hell (地狱) where the sinner will be punished accordingly.
There is ten temple 十殿, which headed by a 阎王, with his own army of Gods 牛头马面 黑白无常 判官 etc
This place resemble the traditional Chinese bureaucrat office (衙门), where the good are distinguished from the bad, the good are rewarded and sin were punished 辨是非 奖善惩恶

The legendary Bao Cheng 包拯 is once the head of 1st Temple, also known as The Emperor of Yan Wang 阎罗天子, yet due to his often released of wrongfully sentenced soul 冤魂, his rank was diminished to the 5th Temple.

lets look back through histroy

chinese folklore religion is base on creation from human mind.
e.g na zha, jade emperor, er lang shen etc.....

unlike islam or christian where were revealed by prophet. nor was discovred by enlightenment like buddha.

so, the mean of deva were discovered by ????

then when you channel by medium, are you sure that you are asking the real jade emperor to possess you?

and again, there are many place that might channel this god at same time.

eg. during ninth emperor birthdate, many place will channel this 9t emperor to possess them. klang, penang, ipoh, ampang, etc

so, how do this emperor divide his spirit to possess each people at different area

Folklore religion is born way before recorded history, it is even older than Islam, Christianity and Buddhism (and Taoism if you insist) combined. Folklore religion started as a form of body worship, revolve into totem worship, then into ancestry worship, eventually into today's folklore religion we knew. Thru out the history of Chinese Empire, these practices never really been cut off by any form of "Official Religion", and there is always been some level of worshipping occurred both in the royal family and the among the ordinaries.

As Folklore religion is a common sets of belief by the mass, it was easily influenced by what most people think it is true, and adapt itself into a new form. Thus, we can see there is lots of shadows and bits of other religion, such as Buddhism, Taosim and even Confucianism.

Example, if we list all known Gods of Folklore religion, we will find Gods we "borrowed" from Taoism and Buddhism, using a Emperor and bureaucrat system of Confucianism.

As an example, we worship Guan Yin, Ru Lai and Lohan 观音如来罗汉；Yet also believed in Yuan Shi Tian Jun and Emperor of Zhen Wu 元始天君真武大帝
The heaven and underworld of Folklore religion is a assemble of traditional Chinese Empire, where there is a Emperor 玉帝, there is General, there is Civil service, there is consultants, heck, there is even soldier and other being that lived in the heaven yet do not have a proper job.

You may say that Folklore religion doesn't not consolidated well through out time, but you can't say that it is just some wack job create some nuts story and everyone believes in it.

Hi JunJun, what you have learned is not entirely different from mine, actually. Your post merely covers the management levels of Hell that I did not mention in my previous post. I merely went as high as the Ten Judges; you have gone even further up the ladder.

Dong Yue Da Di/东岳大帝, the Great Emperor of the Eastern Peak, indeed is the Supreme Ruler of the Netherworld, although he is not, strictly speaking, a Hell deity. He has other responsibilities, as well, including Heavenly jobs, but is involved in Hell-related matters because he helps determine allotted lifespans plus matters of fate.



Ranking beneath him is Lord Feng Du/丰都大帝, whom you could regard as the Chief Executive Officer of Hell. He receives reports from the Ten Judges regarding goings-on in Hell, and relays them to Dong Yue Da Di. Yes, he is named after Feng Du City, the legendary Chinese necropolis that we regard as the capital of the Netherworld.



And then beneath Lord Feng Du we have the Ten Judges, of whom Justice Bao is the highest ranking. They are Hell's board of directors, the ones who manage its day-to-day goings-on.

What you have heard about Justice Bao being demoted is just a fairy tale, haha. The Fifth Court has always been the administrative centre of Hell, and is not inferior in any way to the First Court despite the numbering. Also, he is a firm advocate of law and order; no souls would be wrongfully sentenced under his watch.

Is a 'man-made' god any less relevant or effective than a pre-existing 'real' god?

How does one even define 'real', come to think of it?

Look up basic chaos magic theory, Angel - the thoughtform hypothesis. In short, believe strongly enough in the existence of something (an imaginary being, for instance), and it may start to become real.

This is how beings from legends and folklore survive - how they continue to perpetuate and even influence our lives, be it directly or indirectly.

Pretty powerful stuff.

As I've posted earlier, it is perfectly feasible for different mediums to channel the same deity, even in different places at the same time. See below:

This post has been edited by nachtsider: Jan 29 2015, 02:18 PM

well whether its real or not IMO this is the real peaceful religion. No converting others or forcing others to believe, no calling non-believers heretics etc.

BTW at the temple I go too, sometimes you can see the local Iban/dayak/bidayuh, indians and sometimes malays coming to ask for help. During the 7th half month festival the malay and dayak kids and their parents are the one that go for the loot. (the tradition whereby you put lots of things and you gotta fight for it. Dunno what this called) Truly 1Malaysia in a sense.

And the deity once said to my master "doesn't matter whether you are Christian or Muslim or Buddhist when you die I'll be the one you come to "

This post has been edited by epsilon_chinwk86: Jan 16 2015, 08:09 AM

Nice info! Learned so much by reading all the pages.

Not that Mr Bao wrongfully sentence anyone, is the human Judge that wrongfully judge someone (often involving killing them), thus making soul bearing the sin he did not commit. Mr Bao will release them, to allow them to take revenge.



Yes, this is street side classroom teachings

If you did not commit a crime, you will bear no karma in relation to the crime, regardless of whether or not you were wrongly punished or imprisoned for it.

His Honour the Imperial Magistrate Bao is the paragon of justice. This includes not allowing souls to take the law into their own hands, wronged or otherwise.

Think of what might happen if souls were allowed to exact their own revenge. What if instead of merely going after the guilty party, the wronged soul decided to harm the guilty party's innocent children or grandchildren, as well?

It's a very slippery slope, and not a risk that Mister Bao would take under any circumstances. The law is the law is the law.

Thank you! If you're liking what I'm posting so far, feel free to ask any questions or discuss the existing topics. I would love to see some active participation, rather than mere onlooking - don't be shy, people.

Nachtsider

Havecyou cinsideed arranging all these facts and mad it into a guidebook ?

Oh yeah.

I've indeed toyed with the idea of compiling all this knowledge into a published book.

One of these days, perhaps; my job tends to get in the way of things, lol.

That being said, even here in this thread, you guys have barely scratched the surface.

Keep those questions coming!

Who is Lord Xuan Wu?





Lord Xuan Wu/玄武 or Xuan Tian Shang Di/玄天上帝 (the Supreme Emperor of the Dark Heavens) is a major Heavenly warlord, a dispeller of evil spirits and patron of all martial artists. He has thirty-six Heavenly generals under his command, plus their respective armies.

Xuan Wu was once human, a warrior prince who gave up his throne after realising how much suffering his battles and campaigns had caused. He went off into the wilderness to become an ascetic, and to perform penance.

Whilst out in the wilderness, he helped lost travellers, defended isolated villages from bandits and did many other heroic/selfless deeds. His penance, however, culminated in him ritually disembowelling himself, so great was his guilt.

Immediately after he had performed this act, Guan Yin intervened. She was moved by his true repentance, and his sincere desire to become a better man. The prince became a divine warrior, a defender of the righteous path - Lord Xuan Wu.

His entrails, which he had removed upon disembowelling himself, turned into manifestations of the evil and sin that he had purged from his being - into a giant demonic serpent and tortoise, which caused great havoc and chaos in the land. Xuan Wu subdued them, thus finally overcoming his former wrongdoings. The serpent and tortoise now serve as his familiar animals/assistants.

would like to know more about our soul, after death...etc

actually i read a version that he was a butcher...which one is true?

http://www.taoistsecret.com/taoistgod.html#8

When in doubt about a deity's origin story, always go with the earliest version of the legend; in the case of Lord Xuan Wu, the 'warrior prince' story is the earliest version.

It is interesting how Xuan Wu's story bears certain similarities to that of the Buddha.

The fellow who runs that website has a very dubious reputation, by the way - he is a self-styled 'doctor' who promotes unethical spiritual practices.

Many of the gods he describes as 'Taoist' are in fact not Taoist at all.

ok, good advise. TQVM