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 The Official Lowyat.NET Sintua Thread, A thread on Chinese folk religion.

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Petro-Canada
post Jan 31 2015, 08:51 AM

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Appreciate if you can enlighten on "Offering" for the departed notworthy.gif notworthy.gif notworthy.gif nachtsider
- How
- What
- When
- Where
& Maybe Why

This post has been edited by Petro-Canada: Feb 3 2015, 08:07 AM
SUSredisthcan
post Jan 31 2015, 03:53 PM

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Who are the Five Camp Commanders?

The Five Camp Commanders/五营将军 are the five foremost Heavenly generals in Chinese mythology. They correspond to the Five Cardinal Directions, Five Elements and Five Colours. They consist of Prince Na Zha/哪吒三太子, the leader, whom I have spoken about earlier in this thread (Centre, Earth, Yellow), Lord Er Lang/二郎神 the Jade Emperor's nephew, with his distinctive all-seeing third eye (West, Metal, White), Lei Gong/雷公 the Garuda-like Thunder God (East, Wood, Green), Marshal Zhao the Military Wealth God/武财神赵公明 (Black, Water, North) and Marshal Kang/康元帅, the right-hand man of Lord Xuan Wu, whom I have also spoken about earlier in this thread (Red, Fire, South).

The Five Camp Commanders can be found in most temples and sintuas. As each of the five commands a large army of his own, their presence provides the temple/sintua with spiritual manpower. The Commanders' troops serve to defend the establishment, assist in exorcisms, convey messages between Heaven and Earth, run sundry errands for the more senior gods, and so on. Spiritual manpower is extremely important for a temple/sintua to optimally function on the spiritual level.

The Five Camp Commanders can sometimes be encountered in the form of pins that mediums (and occasionally, their assistants) use to self-mortify. As discussed previously in this thread, skewering oneself with these pins imbues one with the power of the Five Camp Commanders, which one can harness to perform relevant rituals.

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mycolumn
post Feb 2 2015, 09:35 AM

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This thread is good for reading.
mycolumn
post Feb 2 2015, 06:32 PM

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hi, I do not subscribe to the chinese folk lore believe but my grandmother does and honestly, I am curious and find this really an interesting read. I've read most of the posts here and I would like to say thank you for all your effort to share your knowledge with the others. I do have a question though, perhaps i missed out some points from some of the posts that I have yet to read. So, I would appreciate if you would help to clarify smile.gif

I've seen you explaining about the earth deities, heaven deities and hell deities. Also, I've read your posts on what happen to a human once he/she passed on to the netherworld. However, from the posts (perhaps I did indeed missed the point), I saw that all human beings are kinda destined to go to hell. ohmy.gif ohmy.gif And I know that all human are sinful, so yeah, human deserves hell. sweat.gif However, can a human who passed on go to heaven straight? I'm just curious. Like if he/she is really good in his/her life on earth, he/she doesnt need to go through the hell door for judgement. Just straight up to heaven. unsure.gif Is this possible?



ohmy.gif


edit: typos

This post has been edited by mycolumn: Feb 2 2015, 06:34 PM
SUSredisthcan
post Feb 2 2015, 07:18 PM

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QUOTE(mycolumn @ Feb 2 2015, 06:32 PM)
hi, I do not subscribe to the chinese folk lore believe but my grandmother does and honestly, I am curious and find this really an interesting read. I've read most of the posts here and I would like to say thank you for all your effort to share your knowledge with the others. I do have a question though, perhaps i missed out some points from some of the posts that I have yet to read. So, I would appreciate if you would help to clarify smile.gif

I've seen you explaining about the earth deities, heaven deities and hell deities. Also, I've read your posts on what happen to a human once he/she passed on to the netherworld. However, from the posts (perhaps I did indeed missed the point), I saw that all human beings are kinda destined to go to hell. ohmy.gif ohmy.gif And I know that all human are sinful, so yeah, human deserves hell. sweat.gif However, can a human who passed on go to heaven straight? I'm just curious. Like if he/she is really good in his/her life on earth, he/she doesnt need to go through the hell door for judgement. Just straight up to heaven. unsure.gif Is this possible?
Hi Column, the pleasure is all mine. I'm more than willing to share what I know with everyone here. Feel free to ask any and all questions you feel like asking. smile.gif

It is important to know what 'Hell' is in the Chinese folk religious context. The Chinese Hell is a place where EVERYONE passes through, no exceptions existing. It is more appropriately referred to as a 'netherworld', in all honesty, and as I mentioned earlier, it is not necessarily a place of brutal punishment - spiritual cultivation and paying penance can take many forms. Going to the Chinese Hell is therefore not something that should be regarded as dreadful or undesirable.

Even a theoretically sinless individual must first be verified as being sinless, and this will involve evaluation by the Ten Judges. Such a person need not spend any longer a time in Hell than the time it takes to be judged and cleared.
SUSredisthcan
post Feb 2 2015, 07:42 PM

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QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Jan 30 2015, 11:02 AM)
notworthy.gif as usual , good answers and most importantly a trustworthy and honest answers.

Just to clarify: when someone feel ill, yes a GP is sought first, if still have no remedies, specialist are sought, in a case of my very close one, we have visited so many specialists clinics at Sunway X 2 specialist, Pantai X 3 speciliats, and some other specialists clinics. but the problem still persisted and not cured. and all i can see is a prolonged suffering, i heard some temples are famous for praying for and asking for healing, There is one in PJ but we don't see improvement, may be it is because we have prayed wrongly or not sincerely enough....I am seeking for a god of healing/health to answer my prayer so appreciate it if someone whom i can trust to point the rightful way (God knows how many are con man, like the medium who claim can call out for the ded spirit to come back and talk through them)

TQVM , looking forward to later today or later in weekend rclxms.gif
Hi Energy, such a case of illness that is not responsive to repeated attempts at medical treatment would be appropriate to approach the gods about, yes.

Lord Zhang the Serpent-Queller is a Heavenly deity whom I have spoken about earlier in the thread; see the post below for more information about him:

https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=72420996

There is a very prominent Lord Zhang temple, situated in Klang, that has a reputation for wonders. This is the Tian Hock Keng/天福宫, located at Lot 3115, Jalan Stakap, Jalan Tepi Sungai, Teluk Pulai, 41100 Klang (GPS coordinates 3° 3'1.09"N, 101°25'39.08"E).

The establishment holds consultation sessions on Wednesdays at 8 p.m., and on Sundays at 12:30 p.m. You can call Master Ng, the temple's medium, at 012-696-5555 to arrange a booking.

Hope this helps. smile.gif

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Heibaiwuchang
post Feb 2 2015, 07:48 PM

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Lol... Its your turn now to keep active in the thread ya admin...... Well.. Good start...
SUSredisthcan
post Feb 2 2015, 07:59 PM

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QUOTE(ABS2014 @ Jan 31 2015, 01:09 AM)
nice chinese christians have insidiously hijack the thread by asking seemingly-harmless questions to indirectly demean chinese religion and insinuate that chinese religions are backwards (while christianity are forward-thinking). can be seen from d.... and j.... post.
I welcome anyone here, lol. Even those with dissenting opinions. biggrin.gif
mycolumn
post Feb 2 2015, 08:41 PM

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QUOTE(nachtsider @ Feb 2 2015, 07:18 PM)
Hi Column, the pleasure is all mine. I'm more than willing to share what I know with everyone here. Feel free to ask any and all questions you feel like asking. smile.gif

It is important to know what 'Hell' is in the Chinese folk religious context. The Chinese Hell is a place where EVERYONE passes through, no exceptions existing. It is more appropriately referred to as a 'netherworld', in all honesty, and as I mentioned earlier, it is not necessarily a place of brutal punishment - spiritual cultivation and paying penance can take many forms. Going to the Chinese Hell is therefore not something that should be regarded as dreadful or undesirable.

Even a theoretically sinless individual must first be verified as being sinless, and this will involve evaluation by the Ten Judges. Such a person need not spend any longer a time in Hell than the time it takes to be judged and cleared.
*
oh nod.gif thank you for the concise explanations!
I saw in your first post that you are worshipping the hell deities since they've protected you from danger. What about the heaven and earth deities? Do you worship them too? Does it makes any difference if you only worship one of them and not the other two?
SUSredisthcan
post Feb 3 2015, 05:50 AM

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QUOTE(mycolumn @ Feb 2 2015, 08:41 PM)
oh  nod.gif thank you for the concise explanations!
I saw in your first post that you are worshipping the hell deities since they've protected you from danger. What about the heaven and earth deities? Do you worship them too? Does it makes any difference if you only worship one of them and not the other two?
I do worship several Heavenly gods and Earth deities, yes, but certainly not to the extent that I do the Hell beings.

There are some who will tell you that it is important to strike a balance with one's worship, in that the Yin energy of the Hell beings can be overwhelming to certain people. But bear in mind that not everyone is built the same way; I feel very comfortable in the Hell beings' presence, for example.

At the end of the day, it really all depends on which gods you have the most affinity with. There is no harm in sticking closer to the gods you consider your special patrons, although it goes without saying that whenever you attend a public house of worship, you should pay your respects to everyone who is enshrined there, and not just your 'best friends'.
EnergyAnalyst
post Feb 3 2015, 02:47 PM

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QUOTE(nachtsider @ Feb 2 2015, 07:42 PM)
Hi Energy, such a case of illness that is not responsive to repeated attempts at medical treatment would be appropriate to approach the gods about, yes.

Lord Zhang the Serpent-Queller is a Heavenly deity whom I have spoken about earlier in the thread; see the post below for more information about him:

https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=72420996

There is a very prominent Lord Zhang temple, situated in Klang, that has a reputation for wonders. This is the Tian Hock Keng/天福宫, located at Lot 3115, Jalan Stakap, Jalan Tepi Sungai, Teluk Pulai, 41100 Klang (GPS coordinates 3° 3'1.09"N, 101°25'39.08"E).

The establishment holds consultation sessions on Wednesdays at 8 p.m., and on Sundays at 12:30 p.m. You can call Master Ng, the temple's medium, at 012-696-5555 to arrange a booking.

Hope this helps. smile.gif

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TQVM.
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sales.convenience
post Feb 3 2015, 06:57 PM

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送神 is around the corner , anyone would be sharing what will they be offering to the deities ?
mycolumn
post Feb 3 2015, 08:50 PM

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any other chinese folklore deities to share? smile.gif
sales.convenience
post Feb 3 2015, 11:59 PM

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Hi , I would like to share abit on self-mortification.

As per knowledge, self mortification is usually done by a deity who is of lower ranking to himself in the presence of a higher ranking deity as an act of saying " I am not worthy / am your humble servant ".

Usually , self mortifications are perfomed by heavenly deities but some hell deities does do that too. Seldom I would say.


Weapons of choice : For Heavenly Deities .

1. Swords
2. Spiked balls
3. Blades / guan dao
4.Bladed and spiked throne chairs
5.Spiked batons.

Weapons of choice: For Netherworld deities,

1.Abacus
2.Abacus with blades and spikes
3.Chains


Self mortifcations are curb in places in Malaysia and Singapore as compared to Thailand and Taiwan where often it will lead to a bloody mess. I would like to say , from personal experience , I have never seen a kitong left injured after the session. He will have mortal scares but pain is to minimum or to none.

Hope I have shared something that might have contributed to some doubts some might have.

Cheers.1 brows.gif

This post has been edited by sales.convenience: Feb 3 2015, 11:59 PM
sales.convenience
post Feb 4 2015, 12:03 AM

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QUOTE(mycolumn @ Feb 3 2015, 08:50 PM)
any other chinese folklore deities to share? smile.gif
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Hello , maybe I would want to touch abit on datuk kong with help from Wikipedia.

Origins

According to local legends, all Datuks were once humans who had a standing in society either for their position or special attributes. They could have been an important leader, a renowned healer, a silat warrior, a pious man or even a shaman. Upon their death, locals and their followers would sometimes offer prayers at their gravestones, in line with the concept of keramat. Local Malay culture prior to the arrival of a more conservative brand of Islam practised the paying of respects to guardian spirits or penunggu which is believed to reside in seemingly 'unusual' natural formations; a unique shaped rock, an ant mount, a snake's nest, an extraordinarily large tree etc.

With the arrival of Chinese immigrants who carried along with them the Confucianist belief of ancestor worship, both practices converged and formed a new micro-culture as observed today. Datuks, referred to in Chinese as Na Tuk Kong (earth spirits), is considered a localised form in the worship of the spirit of the land, along with Tu Di Gong.

The worship of Datuk among Malays and Indian Muslims declined steadily after Islamic authorities started clamping down on such activities. By that time, Dato worship have taken root in the local Chinese spiritual beliefs.



Just to add abit of self-knowledge , as we are migrant Chinese , we are not the indigenous people of the land , If you noticed in our

地主公 tablets , locally in malaysia and singapore we usually see 唐番地主 and in Hongkong / Taiwan 前后[COLOR=red]地主

Reason being , I am not very sure of why the stark difference but 唐番 means , Dizhu from 唐 ( china ) 番 ( current land of occupancy ).
sales.convenience
post Feb 4 2015, 12:06 AM

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For mortifications , this is another type , piercing with Heads of commanders and other spiritual weapons / generals / soldiers.

These enable the deity in question to borrow the strength of the spiritual weapons/soldiers to boost their strength to as per task their are doing.

Eg. Cleansing someplace , yew-keng processions such and such biggrin.gif
DT1
post Feb 4 2015, 06:43 AM

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I have a curious question, that I hope you won't feel disrespectful.

If you're able to communicate through mediums with the deities and other spirits, I was wondering if we're able to ask for their clarification on the differences in religions and their own explanation of differences between beliefs like Jesus, Mother Mary, Vishnu, Brahman, Amman, Angels, Ti Gong, Lohan, Prophet Muhammad, Tjinn, Lucifer, Zeus, Odin, Amun-Ra, meditation, telekinesis, Yoga, mind-reading, law of karma, etc. and how they all relate to Earth and the universe.

And what's their explanation on who created the human race and how, and who and how many first humans there were.

I hope it won't be a case of 'tian ji bu ke xie lou'.

This post has been edited by DT1: Feb 4 2015, 06:54 AM
SUSredisthcan
post Feb 4 2015, 08:20 AM

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QUOTE(DT1 @ Feb 4 2015, 06:43 AM)
I have a curious question, that I hope you won't feel disrespectful.

If you're able to communicate through mediums with the deities and other spirits, I was wondering if we're able to ask for their clarification on the differences in religions and their own explanation of differences between beliefs like Jesus, Mother Mary, Vishnu, Brahman, Amman, Angels, Ti Gong, Lohan, Prophet Muhammad, Tjinn, Lucifer, Zeus, Odin, Amun-Ra, meditation, telekinesis, Yoga, mind-reading, law of karma, etc. and how they all relate to Earth and the universe.

And what's their explanation on who created the human race and how, and who and how many first humans there were.

I hope it won't be a case of 'tian ji bu ke xie lou'.
Hi DT, don't worry about sounding disrespectful. I am VERY difficult to offend. smile.gif

Almost all the Chinese folk religion deities are deified human beings, who lived long after the time that the world was first created. They therefore would not necessarily be in the know about matters concerning the creation, and matters concerning prehistoric times. As I've mentioned previously, they are not omniscient, nor are they omnipotent; also, they have very specific job scopes.

Hilarious to relate - someone once tried asking a Hell deity your latter question. His verbatim answer: "How the hell should I know? I'm just the guy who collects the souls of dead people."

No kidding. That account is absolutely true. tongue.gif

Those who have had better luck with such questions, however, receive answers that are more or less uniform - that the force responsible for creating the world has long since moved on, leaving the physical aspects of the creation in the hands of man, and the metaphysical aspects of the creation in the hands of 'otherworldly' beings such as the deities of Chinese folk religion. "We're just the minders. We're here to pick up the pieces and hold them together as best we can. Or not."

As for contradictions between the gods and practices of various religions, the answer I have been given is that any discrepancies lie solely in man's intepretation of such. The same entities span different cultures and religions, and are merely experienced or perceived slightly differently by people belonging to these various faiths and creeds.

The Hindu soul-catcher Sangili Karuppan, for instance, is very clearly analogous to Chinese folk religion's Hei Wu Chang/Li Ya Pek; both are fierce but lawful supernatural beings who wield magic chains as weapons.

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The serpentine Voodoo creator god and goddess Damballa and Ayeda-Weddo are comparable to our snake-like Fu Xi and Nu Wa, who are said to have created humankind.

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The reptilian Aztec rain god Tlaloc is comparable to our Dragon Kings, who also control the rain.

user posted image

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And so on and so forth.

'天机不可泄漏' is a stupid cop-out excuse, by the way. There are no irrelevant questions. smile.gif
JunJun04035
post Feb 4 2015, 10:50 AM

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QUOTE(sales.convenience @ Feb 4 2015, 12:03 AM)
Hello ,  maybe I would want to touch abit on datuk kong with help from Wikipedia.

Origins

According to local legends, all Datuks were once humans who had a standing in society either for their position or special attributes. They could have been an important leader, a renowned healer, a silat warrior, a pious man or even a shaman. Upon their death, locals and their followers would sometimes offer prayers at their gravestones, in line with the concept of keramat. Local Malay culture prior to the arrival of a more conservative brand of Islam practised the paying of respects to guardian spirits or penunggu which is believed to reside in seemingly 'unusual' natural formations; a unique shaped rock, an ant mount, a snake's nest, an extraordinarily large tree etc.

With the arrival of Chinese immigrants who carried along with them the Confucianist belief of ancestor worship, both practices converged and formed a new micro-culture as observed today. Datuks, referred to in Chinese as Na Tuk Kong (earth spirits), is considered a localised form in the worship of the spirit of the land, along with Tu Di Gong.

The worship of Datuk among Malays and Indian Muslims declined steadily after Islamic authorities started clamping down on such activities. By that time, Dato worship have taken root in the local Chinese spiritual beliefs.
Just to add abit of self-knowledge , as we are migrant Chinese , we are not the indigenous people of the land , If you noticed in our

地主公 tablets , locally in malaysia and singapore we usually see    唐番地主 and in Hongkong / Taiwan  前后[COLOR=red]地主

Reason being , I am not very sure of why the stark difference but 唐番 means , Dizhu from 唐 ( china ) 番 ( current land of occupancy ).
*
中外 Inside China and outside china
五方 Five direction
唐蕃 China and places out of china
前后 Front and back

by all means is a chinese poetic way to state "all land"
sales.convenience
post Feb 4 2015, 05:14 PM

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QUOTE(JunJun04035 @ Feb 4 2015, 10:50 AM)
中外 Inside China and outside china
五方 Five direction
唐蕃 China and places out of china
前后 Front and back

by all means is a chinese poetic way to state "all land"
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very informative! Thanks for clarifying, cheers !

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