I would think it's a gifting if that person never spoke that language before.

If it's an ability, it's not a gifting.

i agree that speaking in tongues is a gift of Holy Spirit and as i said not all can speak in tongues? but speaking in other languages is an ability, there are few cases where a citizen of a country fall in coma upon waking up he speak in foreign languages but forget his own national languages? this prove that we have the ability to speak in other languages or the ability to learn.master other languages

You're nearly there! But it's not *just* about unbelievers, but ALSO it's about LOVE to OTHER believers! You get it now? The motivation here is love! When you gather as Christians, you do so to build one another up!

So EVEN in the context of christians, I don't see how praying in tongues should be done when we are gathered. You see why now? Paul is telling the corinthians to love one another (cf. 1 Cor 13) because it's the most excellent way!

Here are two helpful quotes from the commentary I linked up earlier:



And directly addressing your argument from verse 5:



Notice how both arguments are made with appeal to the context; context, context, context. We must never forget the context!

Also, I was discussing 1 cor 14 with General Fahmy and alluded with my mission team leader for another scenario (in terms of her placing her priorities wrongly), but now that I've studied the text a little more, I think I can more confidently say that it might have it's applications to what happened as well:

1)Tongues is not a gift for all believers (cf. 1 Cor 12)
2)Tongues is not useful in building up other believers (cf. 1 Cor 14)

Following (1) and (2), then it follows that within a mission team discussion setting, it shouldn't be your priority to push people without the gift to use it!

I'm not saying that tongues = redundant gift, mind you. I am saying that it isn't the most IMPORTANT gift.

In my scenario, alot of time and effort could have been spent on working through the Bible to make sure we will be preaching God's word faithfully to the villagers; Alot more time could've been spent on praying for one anothers needs and hearing each other out; Alot more time could've been spent on learning one another's weakness so that we would sharpen one another and submit ourselves to the authority of God's word. But instead we have HERESY being preached to 100's of villagers that will not have access to sound teaching anytime soon. I don't understand why you and some of the rest just fail to see this point: The distortion of the gospel is not and CANNOT be the work of the Holy Spirit, it is the work of the devil. And I'm basically saying that the devil can use things like "tongues" that might be something good from God and twist it and corrupt it!


Again, it is completely okay to swallow our ego and say "hmm, maybe what I thought all this while was wrong, maybe I should check with scripture again" and do a study.

Again, I think this article is extremely helpful:

https://bible.org/article/argument-1-corint...2-14#P210_60349

It's a walll of text, but you can skip the part where he argues from the greek and go straight to the summary and argument sections for brief arguments. Mind you, it's not some random scholar writing this.

Fun fact, I've been to DUMC and GT before, no interpreter as I recall

John Piper has this to say to you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTc_FoELt8s

It's only 2:30 long, and I'm sure you've heard of John Piper before!

Serious, watch it.

And if that's not enough, here's another short video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3oFFZQqKdc


I like his point about how almost every (except John) apostle in the Bible were all SLAUGHTERED really badly; from the things you have said, you are saying that the HS was not working in them and they were just not praying enough?

This post has been edited by Decky: Nov 1 2014, 05:20 PM

why are you doing this to me ? didn't i have shown you i want to win soul ? didn't i have shown that i want Mr Najib to receive Jesus as Savior ?

Is that something wrong that ?

instead of helping me winning soul, you gave me crap like john piper / matt chandler narrow minded opinion about money ? money is only tool. Seeds to reap and sow.

care to explain why you sending me "against rich against money message" after i demonstrate i want to win soul ?

Not too sure about that case, if He can permanently speak another language, that is an ability, this gifting mention in the Bible as as when the HS enables that person, don't think it's a permanent ability.

Because this is what you said about the prosperity gospel:




I'm sorry to sound harsh, but I think it's necessary: are you sure you're winning souls? Someone who believes in Christ because of all the material blessings and NOT because of His work on the cross is NOT saved. He might have visions and stuff, but Jesus Christ isn't the lord of his life, money is. That's why I think it's dangerous and I urge you to rethink your position.

By telling a bunch of poor people who need money that they should obey God to be rich, you are basically appealing to their innate desire to be rich and famous (like all of us do), which is idolatry!

Huh? Since when praying in tongues is not loving other believers? I think the problem is maybe you don't understand what I wrote or you brush through quickly without wanting to understand.

It's hard to discuss when are replying to something I never implied and you're saying something about swallowing pride and ego when my intention is to make you understand better about speaking in tongues.

You yourself who never speak in tongues trying to teach someone who speaks in tongues certainly seems like pride if not egoistic.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Nov 1 2014, 06:18 PM

I said we both have to swallow our prides and submit to the authority of scripture. Yes I have, I have tried to understand what you've typed thoroughly. In fact, I think it's you who are not understanding what I'm saying.

"Since when praying in tongues is not loving for other believers"

Read the text again. It's not something I'm saying, it's something Paul and the Bible is saying. In fact it's the whole reason why I jumped into the conversation between you and General Fahmy: He was saying the EXACT same thing.

Fun fact: I've spoken in "tongues" before. I was like you once; always wanting these spiritual gifts because I thought it was the path of being a better Christian.

But please knoww this: it doesn't make you a better Christian than another Christian.

If I've misunderstood you, just slowly point it out. Also, if you want to prevent misunderstanding, try typing with more formal English so that the chances of miscom will be reduced

That's why I post bit by bit so that we can settle one by one.

You're jumping all over the place and talking about something not in my context of argument.

First of all Speaking/Praying in tongue is between you and God.

In mission preparation, I believe all present are Christians. Assuming I'm there, When I pray in tongues, I'm not talking to you but to God.
How is that even related as not loving other believers?

Common man, I don't think He said anything about believing in Christ for the sake of all the material blessings. You're putting that word into his mouth, that's not fair.

Same thing you did to me talking about prosperity Gospel when I didn't even talk about it.

If you read what his original reply was replying to, he was defending my mission team leader's preaching of the prosperity gospel.



This post has been edited by Decky: Nov 1 2014, 06:48 PM

Perhaps you didn't understand her context?

Don't you agree that God will supply all our needs? That is in Phillipians 4:19 and Matthew when Jesus spoke about not to worry about our life.

And for them (villagers) it's already wealth.


I definitely believe God will take care of his children because I'm one living testimony.

Everything I said was relevant to my main point of discussion.

Let's take your statement at face value:

"First of all speaking/praying in tongue is between you and God"

I'll grant that for the sake of argument. This isn't my main contention ok moving on

"In mission preparation, all are Christians, when I pray in tongues, Im not talking to you but to God"

This is why I brought in the whole idea 1 cor 12-14, yes its between you and God, so why do you do it when you gather? Lemme try using my manglish see if it helps.

paul is saying that when you gather together as christians, its so that the other christians are built up. so if you gather but just use your time using tongues because "its between you and God", it's not focusing on other people. this is exactly what paul didnt want the corinthians to do because it wasn't focusing on the other believres.

so same way with mission team; christians were gathering together as christians too! I don't mind you spaeking in tongue in private prayer, but the difference is that we're now gathered together, so we should focus on building each other up!

was that helpful?

But Jesus also says "Do not accumulate yourselves treasures on earth". Also, think about it: do they NEED wealth? Do they NEED an iPhone? I think as their christian brothers we should give to them and we have a duty to do so; and I'm happy to have served the people there by giving them material supplies like clothes, food and the like.

i dun have a problem with someone saying that God will take care of them because He is the ultimate provider. but that is different from saying that you obey god BECAUSE you want a more comfortable life.


Jesus, the son of the Most High God himself DIED on the cross for OUR sins. That's the ultimate blessing already, to tell someone that you should obey him because he's gonna surprise you with something big like a BMW is to say that the BMW is better than our eternal salvation, and that is heresy.

I limit this revelation only to mission trip case you have. To break demonic curse that bind poor people, those poor people must sacrifice what's precious. Money. The act of sacrificing most precious is recorded in bible during Elijah on Mount Carmel... Elijah sacrificed water, during drought, 1 King 18, especially on 1 King 18:33

careful observe the limit of this revelation, only to your mission trip, your case. This revelation is not "general applicable". Ask HS for each mission trip what to do. ... Your mission leader ask HS, at the cost of your understanding.

I hope i can bring some understanding to you

Decky

Did you know that devil use "Do not accumulate yourselves treasures on earth" verses to disturb the mission trip, the mission trip you talked in post 121 ?

Yeah, the devil totally wants believers to store their treasures in heaven and put their hope in something eternal. Which church do you come from btw?

I was protestant, from GKI (gereja kristen indonesia).
Then i moved to GBI (Gereja bethel indonesia)... a hard core pentecostal

then in malaysia i go to indonesian church and local church.

the local church is city harvest sunway.. pretty much like GBI, that's where i exercise my speak in tongue and enjoy presence of GOD to minister to me... but no fren, not intended to make one either.

the indonesian church is non denominational in sunway as well, don't speak tongue in public type church, but not protestant... but lots of my fren is there... and 99% of my fren in indonesian church, don't speak in tongue... and interestingly, most of them... think and have mindset like you