We're not talking about Sunday service, so let move that out of the way, I'm talking about when gathered together as Christians especially for prayer related event.

When you're gathered together you can pray in tongues to God. In the example of preparation for the Mission, To pray for protection, anointing and all that.

What building up do you need for mission among each other? If you're talking about building up knowledge,
aren't only qualified candidates chosen for mission trip? Meaning senior Christians? The junior ones should be taken care of by section leaders.

If you're talking about building up encouragement, without prayer, a lot of things can go wrong. No amount of encouraging just like that is going to stop spiritual warfare.

I think you're missing the point in verse 6 here:


6 Now, brothers and sisters, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?

You don't seem to understand the context here:

6 Now, brothers and sisters, if I come to you and speak in tongues......


Praying For and Praying To are 2 different thing. Verse 6 is talking about coming to a brother and praying in tongues to instruct him.

Like I said, when we pray in the spirit, we are praying to God directly, who actually pray in tongues coming to a brother sister, expecting Him to understand?
Nobody does that. So what is the context of 1 Corinthians 14? It's talking about Sunday Church Service, that is the exact context.
To use for other context, IMO is very irrelevant.

I'm sure you know a Christian can pray in tongues for each brother and sister and by that, He's not praying in tongues TO the brothers or sisters to instruct him/her as indicated in verse 6. That is the context Paul is talking about and what I'm trying to say according to this scripture verse.

You seem to take it otherwise.


He is not discouraging praying in tongues when gathered together as Christians.

Otherwise it would contradict

Ephesians 6:18 - And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord's people.



This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Nov 1 2014, 11:53 PM

Did the mission leader really say that about BMW and all that? Or you're just giving an example that never happened?

BTW you need to understand scripture correctly. Read the entire context of it, it's talking about the love of money and not being a slave to money.

The word treasure there means something of value. It's not necessary about money per say, though it can apply in that context. But it can be anything of value.

For different people, different sort of treasure.

God never forbid wealth. Because if He did, He wouldn't blessed Job, Abraham or Solomon with it. Would God contradict his own commands?

And in Luke 16:9 - I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings.

That is one evidence God is not against you having wealth. You can have wealth but use it for the right reason.

Bro decky.....I can see you're zealous for God but make sure your zealousness don't get over your head.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Nov 1 2014, 11:45 PM

What i tried to say: Devil use Psalm 91:11-12 to convince Jesus during temptation (Matthew 4:1-11).

Devil can use bible verse to convince decky as well

LOLOLOL We're going in circles. So I think we should just drop it for the sake of the peace of the thread. The fact that 3 LYN members have been repeatedly telling you the same thing with the exact same arguments but you're still adamant that you're interpretation is correct(even though I've even offered you a commentary that directly opposes your interpretation by a scholar from Dallas Theological Seminary). If anyone ever wants to start this debate again, let this be a reminder that discussion over forum probably won't bear much fruit.

I don't think it's gonna be fruitful for the rest of the Christians who just wanna chill and chit chat on this thread (since I was only trying to defend General Fahmy's argument when I first appeared), but if you wanna meet up and talk about it one day, send me a PM! I live in PJ so I assume we can meet up around Calvary area since you serve there.

To those reading, here are some book recommendations to further understand hermeneutics (how to interpret the bible properly) so that you can make sense of what has been talked about and hopefully, take a side one day:

http://www.amazon.com/Grasping-Gods-Word-H...ng+God%27s+word

(I got it for RM129 at Burning Bush Bookshop @ DUMC a fwe years back, not sure if they still have it.)

http://www.amazon.com/How-Read-Bible-All-W...ll+it%27s+worth

(this one is cheaper I think, also an essential read about reading the Bible, Evangel probably has a few copies. I really like Evangel and their book selections, the shopkeeper's really friendly too!)

Yeah, but it was a misinterpretation of scripture: which sounds like what you're doing hmmm...

Well I get it, you believe that your experiences with the HS far surpasses any truth of the Bible and the bible has to be in subjection of your experiences. I agree to disagree; This thread forbids discussions regarding other religions. The Christian faith holds scripture to the highest authority, so I suppose it's illegal for us to continue on

That is because I was involve in the covering of prayer for my Church mission team, I don't need my Pastor or anyone else to tell me how important prayer is, I know it's extremely important. It's a matter of either we have breakthrough or not. No 3rd option.

And though you may not agree, praying in the spirit or in tongues is very powerful especially in corporate prayer when all of us are gather in prayer. In my Church we have no problem praying in tongues even in small congregation. We do that and our pastor actually encourage it.

Not only our Pastor, but many other pastors who do visit us from time to time. They all are in agreement that praying in the spirit/tongue is important.

That's why I said refuting and debating online are not that effective sometimes. At times, message can lari when get across.

Maybe good idea to write a complete and structure page (ie facebook page) on what you want to refute. Then, it will more clear, complete and structure. and easily refer to also compare to here where all the points are everywhere. Just a suggestion.

Thx Decky for not arguing further with UW + me.

Let's GOD will be done in this forum. Not you, not mine, not UW.

I have this book and I would say that it is pretty good one.

I'm not disputing on speaking in tongues during Sunday service in this context below:

When One suddenly speaks in tongues in a loud manner during Sunday Service and no one interpret what that person says.

I totally agree it's not edifying the Church.


I tried to explain so many times, this is not the context I'm disputing.



I don't know, if you or decky or General Fahmy understand up to here.

Bro, I was there and 3 of my mission teammates just decided to pray when we heard the prosperity gospel being preached. I used the examples to help you understand the situation better, so no, she didn't specifically say BMW, but the content of the message was the same.

you really need to understand what it means to "read the bible in context"... seriously. -.-

I NEVER SAID GOD FORBID WEALTH. You guys are creating so many strawmen it's not even funny.

I was arguing against the preaching of the idea that we should obey God SO THAT we will be blessed with wealth. NOT SAYING THAT WEALTH IS EVIL. You know why I was arguing against it? Because you're spitting on the work that Jesus did on the cross! You're saying that Jesus' death on the cross is just a "small thing" compared to the material riches he will bless you with.


If you won't hear it from me, go back and watch that Piper video; Piper is a charismatic like you and he prays in tongues I think, he encourages his congregation to do so (privately) if they do have the gift, HEAR IT FROM HIM.

yeah it is. Btw how much did you buy it in RM?

My brain couldn't follow the argument between you and Decky. So I just comment as general comment only

Oh someone gave it to me as birthday present in year 2008

If you heard it, then at least let me know roughly what was said. What type of wealth that was mentioned?

If there's no BMW involved, don't mention it because that can be a strawman to me.

Sometime you may think it's a prosperity gospel when actually that person may not meant it that way.

I do read the Bible in context, I've been reading it my whole life now. I'm in Church everyday. Everyday me and the Bible are not separated, fyi.

I think I read the Bible more than anyone else in here, yes this is really bragging but I hope it's in the Lord.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Nov 2 2014, 12:24 AM

I don't agree with all charismatic fyi...
i filter every message fyi...

UW oso do the same thing...

you cannot label we charismatic and therefore we follow piper 100%... no... where is checking with HS in this picture ?

Doing ministry is not easy. When things like this happens.

Yeah and then there's the LYN format that makes it hard to follow too! Apologies for the spam. I should've agreed to disagree earlier since I knew it was gonna go no where with this since he seemed pretty adamant on his position and I to mine. It's a topic I'm pretty passionate about though; I spent probably 15 years of my life being taught under the charismatic movement. I tried speaking in tongues once too!

In this case, i think it's time to close the case for now lo and move on the next discussion or chat perhaps. Otherwise continue to jam

Well how about you buy one of the books I mentioned and read through it to supplement the understanding of scripture, even steve says it's a good book!


lol it's not a strawman la it's an example. It's in essence still the same argument.


She said to a bunch of poor village folk that she knows about their suffering, how poor their country is etc., so be obedient and be righteous because God's gonna surprise you (with material blessings)! Everything she talked about before this implied that it was going to be about material stuff, and the people in my team agreed.

The funny thing was that I had to preach alone in another church in the same country and I taught the people stuff that were quite the opposite to what she said (i.e. Romans 5, rejoicing in your sufferings) The pastor of the local church there sorta agreed with what I had to say too, he did tell me that some of the people believed that if Jesus didn't give them money, they would turn from Christianity and it's quite heartbreaking. Also, the local pastors there told me of an ex-pastor who used to literally pay villagers for being Christian.


BTW, you a church worker?