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> Military Thread V13

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waja2000
post Sep 12 2014, 10:48 AM

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QUOTE(alaskanbunny @ Sep 12 2014, 10:02 AM)
are you referring to yj-12's predecessor or the version launched by plane? yj 12 is a family, the ones launched by ship i believe is  mach 1-2 cruising and 3 at terminal... the newer cm400akg reaches mach 5 at terminal but not mass produced yet
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CM400 AKG already export to pakistan, also more advance version (advance seeker) in develop , maybe can see in this Oct Zhuhai airshow。
waja2000
post Sep 12 2014, 11:13 AM

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QUOTE(thpace @ Sep 12 2014, 10:39 AM)
the funny thing is, in the article it say radar jamming.

in that close range. Who need radar? It pure dogfight ad with visual sight. All depends on the pilot skills and fighter manoeuvring
brahmos is twice as fast with better target acquisition and defence system avoidance. It speculated that brahmos anti-ship variant which based on p700 also have the same swarm attack capability integrated in it.  Meaning it also for saturation attack and not a single missile only will be launch during actual operation

what set it apart again is its speed. While maybe modern ciws  or modern point defence system can counter mach 1-2 missiles. It still take few critical second from identification to interception. So if you have a faster missiles like mach 4-5, the defence system have to work twice as fast to counter the threat.   In hope that during saturation attack, the defence system only may counter maybe one or two while missing the rest.

Of course, in video publish you only see one missiles launch, because no point doing saturation attack on stationary harmless training target. Missiles mahal and not cheap to fire  tongue.gif  But like the falkland war, normally more than one antiship missiles will be launched for a single target to increase the probability of it actually hitting

i doubt malaysia navy want to stock up china missiles. india Brahmos or russian or europe equivalent would be the preference. It was considered for our kedah class but with typical what the armed forces want, armed forces wont get  sad.gif
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our ship with seawolf and vl-mica not much hope to counter mach4~5 ASM.
If chinese mssile is cheap and powerfull why not, anyway Kedah class will be install Exocet MM40 block 3 or max can hope NSM.
people to like brahmos ... but not thinking account went ship design the weight of missile (entire ship) already calculated to match engine and propeller also super structure of ship, Brahmos weight 3 tons vs Exocet at 680kg each. it is impossible to fit in to our ship.
our kedah ship is very-very slow ship already just 22 knot only

This post has been edited by waja2000: Sep 12 2014, 11:29 AM
waja2000
post Sep 12 2014, 12:29 PM

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QUOTE(thpace @ Sep 12 2014, 11:38 AM)
read previous article i posted
can be installed no problem on meko 100 class ship. Plus, it most likely same style like the external inclined launch tube instead of vls. Basically, turning out kedah class as missile boat  tongue.gif
what i mean that, it can take the place on ship intended for exocet or others
similarly, it a plug n play system or fancy name module
http://www.klsreview.com/HTML/2009Jan_Jun/20090608_06.html
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Off couse can install in cross X style for 2x2 unit, but total weight become 13 tons+,2x2 Exocet less 3 tons only, question now is ...
is ship Draught will increase?
is ship structure need enhance to take extra weight?
is extra weight will slow down ship speed ?
is extra weight will give extra load to engine and gearbox and propellers?
is module/sytem power specification same with exocet?
alot just business talk ... but alot hard work in behind ... went u want to install different system.

for Kedah class i more prefer to light NSM missile compare to Exocet MM40 Block3. it just small 1600 tons Corvette , no need to hard to install different system。

This post has been edited by waja2000: Sep 12 2014, 12:36 PM
waja2000
post Sep 12 2014, 12:32 PM

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QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Sep 12 2014, 12:19 PM)
Our ships too small to install VLS you mean?
On a side note, any latest news on the Malaysian Gowind frigate order? Construction still progressing as planned I hope? Fingers crossed we won't have another Lekiu-class fiasco.
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he means VLS system is too small to fit BrahMos missile ....
got gowind wait 2018 to get ship, for now can forgot it first, still long to wait.
waja2000
post Sep 12 2014, 03:54 PM

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QUOTE(thpace @ Sep 12 2014, 02:28 PM)
brahmos VLS is too long for a small ship like kedah class, inclined would be a better option like the indian navy did. Maintenance and installation would be much easier as well
1) Yes most likely but depends. 15ton for marine grade vessel especially military one is not very heavy. Kashtan CIWS is even heavier tongue.gif  But seeing Kedah class available space and current configuration on indian navy, 4 missile tubes would be the max, each 2 facing port and starboard  side. The space for VLS front of the deck most likely again will be reserved for defence system installation

2) structure wise again depends where the navy want to put them. if VLS, then have to cut a hole on the hull. In external, just place it in line with structure with a few minor reinforcements. Not that difficult for a ship, just a few extra added metal on critical support structure. Military ship are constructed using higher strength steel unlike civilian plus kedah class module system, most likely supported

3) depending on the drought. 22 knot is not technically its max speed. Max speed is top secret  laugh.gif  22knot you can call it cruising speed, for a cutter hull design ship, higher cruising speed is need for more fuel economy according to my fren from ALAM apparently to raise the hull above water  

4) No, ship work in a diff way, the engine and propeller will provide a constant push. what drag a ship or slow a ship down is the surface area or drought in contact with water. The more, the more friction. The less, the faster it goes. That why i say, if the drought does not drop much, the speed wont be affected significantly. Besides that, the marine grade diesel engine can go 110 or 120% continuously is needed

5) This i cant answer you. 1st, I dunno the specific details. But since it come with a sealed missile canister, i assume it does not need much power. But depending on the target acquisition system. Not sure if need a new system or can piggy back on existing one.

Neh, when you want something, the service provider will do everything for you including where to place bla bla. You just have to pay them like how you want to customised your car. BTW, it just speculation no need to get so serious, the brahmos news was during DSA 2010. By then even the navy may have changed their mind  whistling.gif
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1. went design weapon before ship is built is ok, but install different spec after ship is built is different.
2. the place can hole 10 tons on deck in kedah class only heli pad. on original ASM place is no. unless add new metal to support.
3. Max speed not secret, nothing hope on 2x5450kW diesel engine on kedah class too low power (just like 1000 tons warship power). and kedah class economic cruising speed only 12 knot, usually warship design at lease ideally at 25/26 knot, good design is warship standard is 30 knot for propellers. 22 kt just like not warship level, just like boat level. hard to do counter pirate & smuggle, slow to reach location (already happens recently)
4. just extra load for engine, kedah class already too low engine power.
5. only manufacture will know.
just discussion , nothing too serious.

This post has been edited by waja2000: Sep 12 2014, 04:04 PM
waja2000
post Sep 12 2014, 05:33 PM

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If RMN want to buy MdCN missile for future navy ship (assume fremm), you all think get approval from mbda & Nato ah...
we know got 300km missile export restriction but no means can't sell, just need special approval.

This post has been edited by waja2000: Sep 12 2014, 05:36 PM
waja2000
post Sep 12 2014, 11:10 PM

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QUOTE(junchuan @ Sep 12 2014, 09:36 PM)
luckily is lousy ship only
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lousy ship?
better study first,
This type of ship is exactly we also need asap,i event hope gov can consider buy 24 unit for use in patrol ESCCOM, south china sea and Malacca strait.
it just new trend design navy ship not for for war fighting, it specially design OPV for anti-Piracy, anti-narcotic, anti-Smuggling , anti-terrorism at sea, it happens now in south china sea and Malacca strait and also suitable use in Esccom.
80 meter ship,With advance radar, 2 RIB for fast boarding/insertion, event UAV heli or Unman boat,76mm navy, gun 25mm Typhoon navy gun, 2x 20mm navy gun, 2 x 12.7 mm navy gun, n 1150 tons with 30 navy personal and 30 Mission personal. design look like mini Gowind L'Adriod.

user posted image

This post has been edited by waja2000: Sep 12 2014, 11:20 PM
waja2000
post Sep 13 2014, 12:50 AM

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QUOTE(alaskanbunny @ Sep 13 2014, 12:40 AM)
24 units?  shocking.gif  msia gomen kena toto?
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just patrol gun boat, not that expensive. expected USD 100 million + each. (just built in s'pore) not local built.

This post has been edited by waja2000: Sep 13 2014, 12:52 AM
waja2000
post Sep 13 2014, 01:06 AM

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QUOTE(alaskanbunny @ Sep 13 2014, 01:01 AM)
macam pergi pasar beli sayor..
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beli patrol boat like that loh, tak mahal. boleh dapat dengan cepat.
tapi sebab gov semua mahu local built , jadi semua ship jadi mahal-mahal and lambat-lambat
actually Australia Armidale/cape Class Patrol Boat also ok cost only usd 50 million each.

This post has been edited by waja2000: Sep 13 2014, 01:06 AM
waja2000
post Sep 13 2014, 01:28 AM

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QUOTE(yinchet @ Sep 13 2014, 01:12 AM)
We need fac more than ever.
250 tonnage - 600 tonnage should be ideal for us to operates at silu sea.
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just example design we need patrol boat ....small to a bit bugger also can, not only esccom, also in south china sea & Malacca strait.
FAC other roll ship, we also needed, if budget issue, i really prefer patrol boat first. too many criminal in sea now.

if notice in photo also top model is FAC version with Harphoon 8x, ESSM missile。

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waja2000
post Sep 13 2014, 08:14 PM

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QUOTE(junchuan @ Sep 13 2014, 10:19 AM)
Impossible la.. U think najib wan buy made in singapore products??
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why not, our submarine rescue ship made made in singapore.
waja2000
post Sep 15 2014, 09:31 AM

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QUOTE(MrUbikeledek @ Sep 15 2014, 08:21 AM)
We should get a couple of this subs. It's a long endurance SSK which mean's we can park one of this outside of Chinese ports.
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why so against china?
event we got that sub, we also nothing to flight with china. china missile just easily destroy our city.
waja2000
post Sep 15 2014, 11:27 AM

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QUOTE(MrUbikeledek @ Sep 15 2014, 09:43 AM)
If they stupid enough to use nuke against a non-nuclear country.
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not need nuke,
i means conventional warhead enough liao ....
nuke just will used maybe ww3 or with us
no need think too much,
china using economic power also can make as down ... our economic depend on them.
no need too anti-china .. win win cooperation much better for future ...

This post has been edited by waja2000: Sep 15 2014, 11:30 AM
waja2000
post Sep 15 2014, 11:32 AM

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QUOTE(zimhibikie @ Sep 15 2014, 09:44 AM)
when Malaysia will go dasar pandang ke timur and buy some subs, surface vesses and tangki from jepang?
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china will punish as if we buy weapon from japan ... direct or indirect way using economic, etc etc ...

This post has been edited by waja2000: Sep 15 2014, 11:36 AM
waja2000
post Sep 15 2014, 01:03 PM

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QUOTE(Protoculture @ Sep 15 2014, 12:28 PM)
Really arhhh? Our ATM is using FN-6 manpads from China, and our APMM used KM Marlin, a ship from Japan. So why no China's sanction against us?
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that weapon not first level weapon ....
km marlin just security force small boat. not category as navy ship.

This post has been edited by waja2000: Sep 15 2014, 01:16 PM
waja2000
post Sep 15 2014, 01:09 PM

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QUOTE(MrUbikeledek @ Sep 15 2014, 12:17 PM)
It's not going to war with them. It's just showing our presence. They came to our shore playing wargames and we came to their shore too. It's called saber ratling. We do have territorial dispute with them.
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no problem to buy how many unit sub, use in our water ok lah, but go to china shore just serious provocation, we not us/japan level country. u think we got power to provocation china ? any benefit to this ? china scare to our sub ? haha ....
now both country work together for economic grow ...

This post has been edited by waja2000: Sep 15 2014, 01:10 PM
waja2000
post Sep 15 2014, 01:57 PM

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QUOTE(alaskanbunny @ Sep 15 2014, 01:41 PM)
ppl rather jilat the jubur of those that slaughtered thousands of msians during ww2 than to support friends than benefit the country since 500 years ago... rather support allies of evil regime that support zionist whom has been slaughtering their fellow brothers in the middle east for years... memang dont understand how these topkek ppl are thinking... tu la, sifat dengki, otak kena cuci...

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haha biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by waja2000: Sep 15 2014, 01:58 PM
waja2000
post Sep 15 2014, 02:46 PM

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QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Sep 15 2014, 02:17 PM)
PLA launches newest Type 056 Jiangdao corvette

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Type 056 number 594 under fitting after a successfull launch & sea trials

The PLA recently launched its latest ship in the Type 056 corvette line (Number 503). The ship line,classified as a missile corvette, is 89 meters long and weighs 1,300 tons in displacement. The Type 056 is designed for modularity, with 4 modular design modules able to be fitted onto the basic hull (Anti-Ship, Anti-Submarine, Anti-Aircraft and command flagship versions).

The basic Type 056 is armed with 1x 76mm gun, 2x 30mm CIWS, 1x 8-cell SAM launcher, 2x C082 Anti-ship missiles and 2 torpedo launchers. There is a helipad for a light helicopter, but no hangar bay. The Type 056 has some features to help reduce its detection signature such as an absence of sharp angles on the superstructure that could reflect radar and also an IR masking system on the chimney and engine systems.

While on paper,the Type 056 is somewhat of a good,if unremarkable vessel,what is most notable feature of the Type 056 is the sheer pace of its construction.The PLA ordered 30 units of the vessel for its navy only in 2010 and remarkably the first Type 056 (Bengbu, number 582) was already launched in 2012. In the space of 2 years (2012-2014) the construction companies have launched 22(TWENTY TWO) Type 056 ships!! That's a rate of one vessel per month!!

user posted image
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Wait to see china 12,000 tons new type 055 destroyer and 5000 tons type 057 Frigate. biggrin.gif
waja2000
post Sep 15 2014, 10:59 PM

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QUOTE(junchuan @ Sep 15 2014, 10:06 PM)
Imagine we buy 1 or 2 to use as flagship and replace barak with buk and s300/s400 biggrin.gif fvcking badass
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actually quite outdated ship, already delay 10 year to commission after many problem, so many integration issue. mix many different system and sensor. radar AESA just 250km range, funny is back is using 2D thales radar, they should change to smart-L 3D radar.....
can say not destroyer level ship. and crew need 325 personal, sure automation is very low and outdated.



This post has been edited by waja2000: Sep 15 2014, 11:10 PM
waja2000
post Sep 15 2014, 11:10 PM

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QUOTE(junchuan @ Sep 15 2014, 11:03 PM)
I thot arleigh burke oso 300 plus, even tho outdated its still going be best ship in southeast asia and maybe bcos outdated will be cheaper biggrin.gif or we shud just build gowind batch ii with upgraded sam
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US arleigh burke DDG more advance system, more extra system and weapon, more bigger, so the crew is ok. not point to get Gowind II, it to small to put advance radar as Anti-Air Frigate, direct go to dcns FM400 or Fremm, cost not much different ( i means cost of size hull ship not much different now, just 5%~15% different) , dcns FM400 or Fremm-LE more bigger so provide more electric to support advance AESA radar (4 fix panel type) .


i wet dream hope we get australia Hobart class destroyer, a oz version of US navy Aegis DDG (smaller version) with 6250 tons and around 200 crew. just take same all design and system and weapon, cost around estimated 1.2~1.5 billion, australia version cost higher due on include initial program rnd cost (pay to us to design the ship and Aegis + integration). this will call powerfull Anti-Air Destroyer for RMN



This post has been edited by waja2000: Sep 15 2014, 11:36 PM

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