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 Fundsupermart.com v7, DIY unit trust investing

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j.passing.by
post Sep 23 2014, 07:35 PM

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QUOTE(em0kia @ Sep 23 2014, 06:27 PM)
Okay, so for Q3, distribution can actually be categorized into two types: Unit increment and unit price increament.
Unit increment is like:
Before distribution: 1000 units x RM1/unit = RM1000
After distribution: 2000 units x RM0.5/unit = RM1000
So even though the total amount is still the same, but we gain more units.

But if its like this, then is this distribution consider an income? I dont see any earning from here  hmm.gif
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Yes, and no. The correct term is "Income Distribution".

Yes, there is a income distribution if you elected to have the distribution as 'cash'.

No, there is no income distribution if you elected to have the distribution 'reinvested' (and the fund company converts the income distribution into more units.)

The 2nd option, you will get more units. But with unit price adjusted accordingly, you will still have the same amount in ringgit before and after the distribution date.

BTW. The above example is a bit extreme, no fund would declare 50%. It is more like RM1/unit going up to about 1.100/unit, with 8-9% declared as distribution, and then the price drops back down to about RM1.

j.passing.by
post Sep 23 2014, 07:40 PM

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QUOTE(wodenus @ Sep 23 2014, 07:34 PM)
Correct... dividends and unit splits mean nothing in UT.. they are just done to lower the "price" without lowering the value. See a lot of people think unit trusts are like shares, they are not. The price of a ut goes up because the fund manager is good,  there are no fundamentals that will cause the price to go up. Saying a fund price is too high is like saying the fund manager is too good lol. Most people don't like high prices, but they like to have the value of the fund go up. But for the value of the fund to go up, the price has to increase.  But most people will not buy into a high-priced fund because wah so expensive how to buy. So we need a way to control the price but still retain the value.

So how do we retain the value of the fund, without increasing the price of the fund? The solution is to lower the price and then declare a div for the amount it was lowered. The price comes down, but the value does not change, problem solved smile.gif

So that's why they do it. If the fund manager thinks people will not buy the fund because the price is too high, they will do that stuff (unit split, dividend etc.) so they can drop the price without affecting the value.
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I think it is a market myth... smart investors know about nav pricing...

techie.opinion
post Sep 23 2014, 08:13 PM

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QUOTE(j.passing.by @ Sep 23 2014, 07:40 PM)
I think it is a market myth... smart investors know about nav pricing...
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It is simple when we hit the level of knowledge and experiences. It took me 5 years since I know unit trust before trusted myself to buy UT.
j.passing.by
post Sep 23 2014, 08:27 PM

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QUOTE(techie.opinion @ Sep 23 2014, 08:13 PM)
It is simple when we hit the level of knowledge and experiences. It took me 5 years since I know unit trust before trusted myself to buy UT.
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The moment you bought UT, you were a smart investor. tongue.gif

woonsc
post Sep 23 2014, 08:29 PM

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QUOTE(j.passing.by @ Sep 23 2014, 08:27 PM)
The moment you bought UT, you were a smart investor.  tongue.gif
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haha PM also smart? innocent.gif innocent.gif innocent.gif
j.passing.by
post Sep 23 2014, 08:35 PM

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QUOTE(woonsc @ Sep 23 2014, 08:29 PM)
haha PM also smart?  innocent.gif  innocent.gif  innocent.gif
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I see, someone is hurting because I was too frank in my opinions?

Grow up, kid.

techie.opinion
post Sep 23 2014, 08:45 PM

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QUOTE(j.passing.by @ Sep 23 2014, 08:27 PM)
The moment you bought UT, you were a smart investor.  tongue.gif
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Aiyooooooooo... not like tat lor. UT is just 1 of investment option, still not smart enough. Many other investment option also still need to know and get experiences. I used to put eggs in many basket.
woonsc
post Sep 23 2014, 08:45 PM

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QUOTE(j.passing.by @ Sep 23 2014, 08:35 PM)
I see, someone is hurting because I was too frank in my opinions?

Grow up, kid.
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blink.gif haha.. i mean PM funds not smart enough! Haha..
SUSPink Spider
post Sep 23 2014, 09:14 PM

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QUOTE(em0kia @ Sep 23 2014, 06:27 PM)
Okay, so for Q3, distribution can actually be categorized into two types: Unit increment and unit price increament.
Unit increment is like:
Before distribution: 1000 units x RM1/unit = RM1000
After distribution: 2000 units x RM0.5/unit = RM1000
So even though the total amount is still the same, but we gain more units.

But if its like this, then is this distribution consider an income? I dont see any earning from here  hmm.gif
*
In UT, distribution =/= income

QUOTE(j.passing.by @ Sep 23 2014, 07:35 PM)
Yes, and no. The correct term is "Income Distribution".

Yes, there is a income distribution if you elected to have the distribution as 'cash'.

No, there is no income distribution if you elected to have the distribution 'reinvested' (and the fund company converts the income distribution into more units.)

The 2nd option, you will get more units.  But with unit price adjusted accordingly, you will still have the same amount in ringgit before and after the distribution date.

BTW. The above example is a bit extreme, no fund would declare 50%. It is more like RM1/unit going up to about 1.100/unit, with 8-9% declared as distribution, and then the price drops back down to about RM1.
*
^
+100 thumbup.gif
polkiuj
post Sep 24 2014, 10:21 AM

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QUOTE(em0kia @ Sep 23 2014, 06:27 PM)
Okay, so for Q3, distribution can actually be categorized into two types: Unit increment and unit price increament.
Unit increment is like:
Before distribution: 1000 units x RM1/unit = RM1000
After distribution: 2000 units x RM0.5/unit = RM1000
So even though the total amount is still the same, but we gain more units.

But if its like this, then is this distribution consider an income? I dont see any earning from here  hmm.gif
*
QUOTE(j.passing.by @ Sep 23 2014, 07:35 PM)
BTW. The above example is a bit extreme, no fund would declare 50%. It is more like RM1/unit going up to about 1.100/unit, with 8-9% declared as distribution, and then the price drops back down to about RM1.
*
Actually no. Eastspring Growth and small cap declared exactly this. 1:1 unit split effective today.
j.passing.by
post Sep 24 2014, 12:48 PM

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QUOTE(techie.opinion @ Sep 23 2014, 08:45 PM)
Aiyooooooooo... not like tat lor. UT is just 1 of investment option, still not smart enough. Many other investment option also still need to know and get experiences. I used to put eggs in many basket.
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... then you are among the better investors with your past experiences. But why "used to put eggs in many basket", do you meant that you are pulling all other investments into one investment option?

I'm currently very bias towards UT, so in my book, anyone who invest into any UT fund is among the smarter investors.

QUOTE(woonsc @ Sep 23 2014, 08:45 PM)
blink.gif  haha.. i mean PM funds not smart enough! Haha..
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I'm still not getting your dig with your posts with more icons than words... you're trying to sound witty and smart, but joined the conversation in a rude, sarcastic manner trying to shot at me with a weak insinuation.

The insinuation was maybe triggered because I put you down before previously in another post? If so, be matured enough and move on, as you had missed the opportunity to point that out in that previous post, and should reply to the current posts without adding another new element in your reply.

Someone else posting the same remark as yours, I would take the time to further clarify why I won't have the same opinion... sorry, not you. You rubbed me the wrong way... and not in any mood to further the conversation with you.

j.passing.by
post Sep 24 2014, 12:49 PM

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QUOTE(polkiuj @ Sep 24 2014, 10:21 AM)
Actually no. Eastspring Growth and small cap declared exactly this. 1:1 unit split effective today.
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wow, good info.

j.passing.by
post Sep 24 2014, 01:17 PM

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On this issue of income distributions and unit splits, and the NAV price per unit, there are some sites which give the info on the min and max NAV prices.

I think they are misleading, as they lend unwanted credence and importance to NAV price.

Maybe they were copied from sites on market indices, and maybe from the stock market, without much thoughts.

Unit splits as in Apple, I'd understand... as they lower the entry price per share/lot for people to get in.

But in UT, the units are not sold in fixed amounts.

You paid RM1, you get RM1 worth of units. You pay RM100, 1k, 10k, 50k, whatever, you get the equivalent amount worth of units (minus of course, the service charges if any).

If the fund grows 10%, 15%, 20%, whatever, you still get 10%, 15%, 20%, whatever growth in your invested amount.

AND THIS IS DISREGARD, whether the nav price is 0.2500, 0.5000, 1.0000, or whatever.


wongmunkeong
post Sep 24 2014, 02:19 PM

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QUOTE(j.passing.by @ Sep 24 2014, 01:17 PM)
On this issue of income distributions and unit splits, and the NAV price per unit, there are some sites which give the info on the min and max NAV prices.

I think they are misleading, as they lend unwanted credence and importance to NAV price.

Maybe they were copied from sites on market indices, and maybe from the stock market, without much thoughts.

Unit splits as in Apple, I'd understand... as they lower the entry price per share/lot for people to get in.

But in UT, the units are not sold in fixed amounts.

You paid RM1, you get RM1 worth of units. You pay RM100, 1k, 10k, 50k, whatever, you get the equivalent amount worth of units (minus of course, the service charges if any).

If the fund grows 10%, 15%, 20%, whatever, you still get 10%, 15%, 20%, whatever growth in your invested amount.

AND THIS IS DISREGARD, whether the nav price is 0.2500, 0.5000, 1.0000, or whatever.
*
bro - some thoughts:
a. some fund houses forces us kulis to redeem or switch "at least" x,xxx.00 units per transaction.

b. thus, due to this self-imposed SOP, these fund houses may be forced to split as the "minimum units/switch or redeem" above becomes too "ridiculous".
maybe lar

for sure (a.) exist - there that old fuddy duddy fund house tongue.gif

amidamaru
post Sep 24 2014, 03:48 PM

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I am new in FSM. Any guide which fund i need to buy or just simply buy the recommended one.
j.passing.by
post Sep 24 2014, 04:10 PM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Sep 24 2014, 02:19 PM)
bro - some thoughts:
a. some fund houses forces us kulis to redeem or switch "at least" x,xxx.00 units per transaction.

b. thus, due to this self-imposed SOP, these fund houses may be forced to split as the "minimum units/switch or redeem" above becomes too "ridiculous".
maybe lar

for sure (a.) exist - there that old fuddy duddy  fund house tongue.gif
*
That minimum of 1000 units to switch? In a way, yes, unit splits will lower the price/unit and creates more units.
And the fund house can keep the nav price within a certain price range, and allow investors to have the switch or redemption amount consistently within a certain range.

When the nav price goes too far above its price range (because of growth), without the unit splits, the investor will be forced to switch in a larger amount if he is switching at the minimum number of units.

It is an advantage to an investor with a matured portfolio. But to a younger investor who is beginning to accumulate and invest into UT, it might not be any advantage.

==============

BTW The post was to show that any investor into UT should disregard the NAV price when comparing and making a shortlist of funds. Just sharing a common knowledge that any UT investor would already knew, except to those just starting their research...

And to support my opinion that it is a marketing myth... that fund managers were trying to trick people into selecting their funds because they have cheaper nav prices.

Or maybe not, as some still insists that it is better to buy after distribution with lower nav prices!

wongmunkeong
post Sep 24 2014, 05:13 PM

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QUOTE(j.passing.by @ Sep 24 2014, 04:10 PM)
That minimum of 1000 units to switch? In a way, yes, unit splits will lower the price/unit and creates more units.
And the fund house can keep the nav price within a certain price range, and allow investors to have the switch or redemption amount consistently within a certain range.

When the nav price goes too far above its price range (because of growth), without the unit splits, the investor will be forced to switch in a larger amount if he is switching at the minimum number of units.

It is an advantage to an investor with a matured portfolio. But to a younger investor who is beginning to accumulate and invest into UT, it might not be any advantage.

==============

BTW The post was to show that any investor into UT should disregard the NAV price when comparing and making a shortlist of funds. Just sharing a common knowledge that any UT investor would already knew, except to those just starting their research...

And to support my opinion that it is a marketing myth... that fund managers were trying to trick people into selecting their funds because they have cheaper nav prices.

Or maybe not, as some still insists that it is better to buy after distribution with lower nav prices!
*
heheh - that marketing BS is a given lar.
look - it works (see some forumers swear by NAV movement as though stock's price) tongue.gif
if it can con geniuses like those, aunties & uncles where can stand against such "attraction" laugh.gif
pisces88
post Sep 25 2014, 08:40 AM

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QUOTE(amidamaru @ Sep 24 2014, 03:48 PM)
I am new in FSM. Any guide which fund i need to buy or just simply buy the recommended one.
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depends risk appetite biggrin.gif u can talk to FSM customer service, they can advise you too
SUSyklooi
post Sep 25 2014, 10:07 AM

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Has The Malaysia Small Cap Sector Lost Its Lustre?......September 4, 2014
Since touching a 17-year high on 19 August 2014, the FBM Small Cap Index has fallen by -4% as of 2 September 2014.

http://www.fundsupermart.com.my/main/resea...?articleNo=4968

CONCLUSION

The Malaysian small cap segment is no longer cheap, but can provide some diversification in faster growing sectors when used together with a large cap fund. Also, higher valuations after the strong market run-up means the segment can be more difficult for individual investors to navigate. Therefore, investing in one of the aforementioned small cap funds to bank on the expertise of fund managers is a better way to get exposure.

However, investors should understand the riskier nature of this segment, and should keep exposure to the supplementary portion of the portfolio with less than 10% of total investments.
xuzen
post Sep 25 2014, 11:24 AM

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QUOTE(RO Player @ Sep 25 2014, 09:53 AM)
what you waiting for guys....buy buy buy ESSCF...before it goes up...fastttt..

Buy lump sum...RM100,000..... dont top up RM 100 or 500...like some fag says...
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I am at awe at your awesomeness my dearest :Tok-kok sifu!" notworthy.gif

Xuzen

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