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 Engine Oil Reviews/Technical talk v2, Everything Automotive lubricants/fluids

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TSQuazacolt
post Aug 11 2014, 11:21 PM

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QUOTE(Klemann C @ Aug 11 2014, 11:19 PM)
How about 30 viscosity? Thinner & lighter?
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assuming the original specification was xw40, sure why not.

although even 4g15 was ORIGINALLY specified to be xw30 from Mitsubishi Service manual i dug up some time ago. Proton called xw50 laugh.gif
considering you mentioned Mitsubishi engine... who knows eh lol
TSQuazacolt
post Aug 12 2014, 11:18 AM

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QUOTE(empire23 @ Aug 12 2014, 06:46 AM)
That's 20 weight higher than what Mitsubishi recommends. Unless you're driving Le Mans 24hrs or some form of endurance racing with elevated temperatures with a requirement to maintain very stable oil pressures, that's too heavy and you'll never get the temps high enough for the oil to pass through the squirters and journals at the right rate.

Essentially if you don't drive it hard enough, an oil at that weight will wear your engine faster. Also being a MPFI engine, you won't have problems with dilution, which means your oil weight more or less stays the same.  15W is quite thick upon start up and thus unless there a strong ester or metal "clingy" additive, you will experience more wear upon start up as Mitsubishi recommends a maximum of 5W all year round for summer conditions with 0w for winter.
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and there you have it!

ps: AFAIK proton recommends 10w40 for the inspira so... rolleyes.gif
TSQuazacolt
post Aug 12 2014, 11:59 AM

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QUOTE(empire23 @ Aug 12 2014, 11:54 AM)
That's within the range of Mistubishi's recommendation but 10W is as thick as you'd go upon startup if you want acceptable engine wear. That's I usually don't go any higher than 5W. 40 weight is quite heavy but still within the 10+- rule of thumb I use.

But going 50 is outside that rule and thus the oil would have a seriously hard time squeezing past those journals and tiny oil passages.

Anyways ordering 8 litres of Motul DCTF now. Nearly 200 dollars or 600 ringgit. Need to service the Getrag DCT in the car as well. Filter oso mahal.
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4B11T maybe, 4B10/4B11 recommended is 0w20 and it's +20 heavier.
it's a NA econ box afterall wink.gif

hmm 8 liters for rm600 (75/l, somemore things at Australia seems a lot more expensive in comparison) doesn't seem all too bad.
i'm paying like rm50/liter for Motul's ATF 1A
seem like the way to go if i'm letting go of lubegard platinum additive. That, and my favorite Caltex ATF-J price hike doh.gif (maybe i spread the word too much on LYN and caltex got wind of it, like Techron concentrated additive)
TSQuazacolt
post Aug 12 2014, 12:19 PM

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QUOTE(empire23 @ Aug 12 2014, 12:13 PM)
I think that's the new recommendation but it isn't due to a technical concern, it is because Mitsubishi had to satisfy the CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) for most of its cars sold and a lighter oil helps it do that. Proton doesn't need to satisfy CAFE laws in the US.

The Evos don't have a renewed recommendation because CAFE is sales weighted. Meaning the cars that sell the most are the most affected.

Thus I'd try both 0W-30 and 0W-20 and get UOA analysis done on them to determine which is best for what. As you have no turbo to contend with, but your clearances might be more/less due to many factors as the 4B11T uses Mahle's forged hypereutectic pistons in a 2618 alloy. But being within the range you can't go wrong.

I usually buy all my DCT lube from the US or Europe. Too mahal here. Motul DCTF is nearly double that price I buy local. If I buy Mitsubishi DiaQueen SSTF-1 (rebranded Castrol Transmax Dual), it is 500 dollars for 8 litres from Mitsubishi.
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aye that's pretty much my reasoning on sticking with the lightest viscosity within Mitsubishi's range.

My UOA did show a bit high wear despite the additives, but hey who knows if they are the ones causing trouble instead? lol
then again the lab guys weren't concern about the wear i'm experience due to the engine being very new and i do trash it very hard.

btw once i can confirm on some figures i'll post my latest dyno...
it's as you said, the ecu seriously did richen itself insanely despite the richest value on the remapped is 12.8 AFR
OBD already shows commanded AFR being 11.5-12 so it definitely due air filter stuck or air starvation... i actually double checked the drop in box to confirm there's no dead rat sitting in there rclxub.gif

ah that pricing is not from AUD? then yea it is rather pricey, though being in the limited DCT market, i guess it cant be helped sad.gif
TSQuazacolt
post Aug 12 2014, 04:09 PM

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QUOTE(phobian @ Aug 12 2014, 03:51 PM)
Cheam@C&R Autocare Glenmarie carries Motul DCTF. Cant recall the exact price, but was told its lesser than RM100 if I recall correctly. If my 20L pack of HKS cannot reach in time, its either Motul DCTF or Millers.

Well noted and thanks for the heads up on Mitsubishi's recommended grade of engine oil.
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btw glad you happen to stumble across this thread also, hopefully i get to see you in action personally during Sepang thumbup.gif
bro empire23 is in Australia i believe and his Evo X is now a supermarket car unsure.gif

do give it a go with lower viscosities; You've been missing out a LOT on your 4B11T man wink.gif
heck i'm a lowly 4B10 and i've been really happy on it's rev happy nature with 0w20 EO's since day 1 wink.gif
TSQuazacolt
post Aug 12 2014, 06:46 PM

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QUOTE(empire23 @ Aug 12 2014, 06:33 PM)
You'll have high wear for your first UOA and it progressively gets lower as everything fits in. As for your tuning I'd suggest sitting down with a WBO2 sensor and tuning up everything after a few pulls.

If you're going rich, I'd check the knock value and see if it is the ECU compensating for knock. Also check your ignition time. I believe that investing in a Tactrix OpenPort 2.0 cable for logging while you do your WOT pulls might be a wise investment.

I just cleaned the Evo today and wiped all the leather down with cleaner and conditioner, Kyrtoxed all the rubber seals and essentially left it in top condition. If I come back in 3 weeks and the car is dirty, somebody's gonna get hurt real bad.
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definitely will need to save up for the tuning equipments... everything don't come cheap and at the end of the day one would wonder if it's even worth it for a puny 100hp 4B10 lol...
I'm actually thinking of something like a scooby for my next car, but that's something to be explored maybe 7 years later or if i strike lottery or something since i just started out with my new car laugh.gif

btw, the ECU also compensate knocking not only via ignition but AFR as well? damn that could explain the commanded AFR values despite the mapping specified 12.8 to be the lowest value.
i do know that the ignition advance did not went as high as i had on that previous screenshot i @ ping'd you that other day

much thanks for the info bro, that definitely help solved a few mysteries.
maybe next dyno i'll go drug up the car to prevent knock rolleyes.gif
though, i either wasn't sensitive on the knocking, or the knock sensors/compensation was done so perfectly it totally slipped past me laugh.gif

btw prepping the supermarket car for the parents? lol
TSQuazacolt
post Aug 12 2014, 07:51 PM

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QUOTE(empire23 @ Aug 12 2014, 07:40 PM)
Well the Tactrix OpenPort can be used with a lot of vehicles. Subaru included and so can the WBO2 sensor.

As for the ECU compensating, well, it's an unknown quantity at this moment as you're only editing stuff via the CANbus, the logic is still up to the ECU itself and that's the hard bit. Just like how the Evo X switches between 3 maps, nobody knows how the interpolation on map selection is done by the ECU, we just try our best to mod around it. 

Best you can do is log things and see how it affects other variables. And of course take what I say with a grain of salt, I'm no expert on Mitsubishi ECUs or any car based ECUs for that matter. Although if you need help with GM DELPHI, E-Controls and other industrial ECUs, I can help laugh.gif

My parents say they want to come in December. I oso say ok lah, but I wanted to clean the car up before I serviced everything. One of those syiok sendiri things. Diff, transfer case, engine, power steering, brake and gearbox oils all changes with a fresh set of plugs and with a very shiny car. Feels good mang.
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if anything i know there 2 separate MIVEC timings just for hot/cold coolant temperatures, god knows how many other variables are there (eg: the 3 maps you mentioned)

your information has definitely helped me understand a lot of things in the past/now so definitely appreciate them thumbup.gif

and yes, that's what most car guys do, no? *coughdetailingthreadcough*
TSQuazacolt
post Aug 27 2014, 03:50 AM

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QUOTE(efaceninja @ Aug 26 2014, 07:59 PM)
anyone used any radiator coolant flush product before?
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used this from Eneos:
user posted image

but as i google i found :
http://www.prop65daily.com/Litigation/Peop...ncorporated.pdf

probably why they seem to be so hard to google these days, company closed? lol

anyways if your car is still new, just replace the coolant more frequently if you don't want risk that may come from coolant flushes.
TSQuazacolt
post Aug 27 2014, 09:21 AM

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QUOTE(efaceninja @ Aug 27 2014, 08:58 AM)
the car i intended to use on is old car, the coolant so far i believe has been using RM 6 coolant off the shelve of supermarket.  not sure how frequent it changed.  and i think there was a period it was filled with plain pipe water only.. tongue.gif  well, back then i was not knowledgeable as now.. rclxub.gif  now i plan to replace it with those long life one from shell.  so before that, was thinking of giving it a flush first.

hmmm, what risk here you referring to? you mean it may harden the seals or dislodge a clogged hole (make the hole reappear and leak)??

also, i've discovered that radiator flush coolant product are a lot more rare than engine oil flush.
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ya pretty much what you've mentioned on the risk.

it's a given actually, radiators are a whole lot cheaper to replace. maybe 300-600 for the average radiators?
an engine is in the thousand, so products tend to focus more on the engine where else radiators? spoil/leak/corrode/clogged etc just get new? lol.

of course you could just replace coolant more frequently, use distilled water only and so on and they'd probably last many long years until you need to deal with clogging/corrosion] and even then replacing one still probably wouldn't be a killer.
TSQuazacolt
post Sep 2 2014, 03:06 PM

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QUOTE(zionanubis @ Sep 2 2014, 01:54 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


500KM X 12mth= 6000 ++ km for a year.
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if worry, change the oil filter on the 6 month and top up accordingly.
check the engine oil condition/level via dipstick every month
TSQuazacolt
post Sep 3 2014, 04:43 PM

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QUOTE(empire23 @ Sep 3 2014, 04:40 PM)
Reorganized my oils and everything into a proper shelf in the corner of my room.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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notworthy.gif notworthy.gif notworthy.gif
those metal can 300v packaging look damn nice lol

our plastic bottles looks kinda plain sweat.gif

=edit=
high5 on megs/turtle wax tongue.gif

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Sep 3 2014, 04:43 PM
TSQuazacolt
post Sep 3 2014, 05:14 PM

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QUOTE(empire23 @ Sep 3 2014, 04:51 PM)
I think the plastic bottles are the older Double Ester technology, I used to get those. The new stuff that comes in a can is called EsterCore.

Most fluids I hantam and use as required, then restock, the only thing I skimp on is the Castrol SRF Racing. 340 ringgit for 1L bottle.  When feeling cheap I use Penrite SIN, Motul RBF660 or ATE Super Blue.

I don't detail the car much these days. I'm not home very often.
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neh ester core:
https://plus.google.com/+JasonLimQuazacolt/posts/3pv5ZxGdhUX
from motul's site they still run both metal/plastic packaging
my ester core 300v are year 2013 production batch (assuming the date looking formatted numbers are the production dates) and since 300v stocks for Malaysia runs damn slow (i'd assume), year 2013 batches are still circulating around lol

Hmm i've been recommended on ATE brake fluids, how are they btw?
not too interested in the super blue racing fluids, just their ultra low viscosity SL.6 intrigues me:
http://www.ate-na.com/www/ate_us_en/themes.../bf_sl6_us.html

it being DOT4 and still able to have better temperatures/viscosity rating and yet still being cheaper than motul DOT 5.1 i've just recently purchased to bleed my brakes for this upcoming Sepang...
haven't come across them locally though, so still looking around the internet/options.

well my detailing products are just sitting there for the most part... i mean the last time i washed my new car (or any car for that matter lol) was months ago sweat.gif
TSQuazacolt
post Sep 4 2014, 11:14 AM

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QUOTE(efaceninja @ Sep 4 2014, 09:05 AM)
in kitchen too? cool2.gif  whistling.gif  whistling.gif  whistling.gif
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And living room lol
TSQuazacolt
post Sep 6 2014, 04:24 AM

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QUOTE(empire23 @ Sep 5 2014, 08:53 PM)
ATE's SuperBlue and Type 200 are pretty good. The SL6 is ATE's offering for high performance driving but I've never used it before as Superblue isn't that much more expensive. Have used Superblue on the Evo X previously but preferred the pedal feel from Castrol's React SRF. Otherwise they're pretty damned close.

Yeah I hardly detail these days, just an autowash and a vacuuming when I get back and before I leave for site. Just serviced the Evo today, she feels good to drive and the engine runs as it should with the 300V 5W-30, flushed it with LiquiMoly Engine Flush as well but might use a light weight flushing oil the next time around.
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hmm in regards to pedal feel, would it's viscosity property be it's major contribution?

assuming so, would you prefer thinner or thicker viscosity?
i have a personal preference for lighter viscosity in almost everything, and in regards to brakes, the braking feels so much sharper. Not to mention more precise clutch controlling as the brake/clutch shares from the same reservoir/fluids.

will definiftely check out castrol, they should be easier to get around here i'd reckon?
i had a choice for motul's RBF and DOT5.1, the pricing was as you said (for the ATE anyways) damn similar, only opted the DOT5.1 in the end because of the much lighter viscosity especially on cold starts slow/half clutching.

btw any reasoning on avoiding engine flush and opting for light weight flushing oil? which sort of flushing oil would you be referring to? most hdeo seems very thick in viscosity from the top of my head.
TSQuazacolt
post Sep 8 2014, 01:03 AM

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QUOTE(empire23 @ Sep 7 2014, 04:59 PM)
Personally I feel that the majority contribution to pedal feel is compressibility, viscosity is less important. What I look for ultimately are the wet and dry boiling points, wet being the most important as it determines the stability of the fluid in the long term and its ability to function when subjected to real world conditions. I'm not worried about cold starting temps because it primarily acts as a hydraulic fluid.

ATE's fluids tend to last 1 or 2 track days due to their formula being less able to reject the effects of moisture but it is well known that Castrol's SRF Racing will only need 1 or 2 changes per season. Also the wet boiling point is about 100 degrees higher.

My logic behind my preference for a flushing oil (my definition is : Oil used as an intermediary to flush rather than a purpose made flushing oil) is simply because if I'm going to put new expensive engine oil in, it is probably better for it to go into a cleaned engine, free from any old leftovers. So I'll probably use some cheap oil and filter, give it a hard drive and then service it quickly with the much more expensive 300V and high perf filter.
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i see, so overall it would be a deal of trial and error i guess? (what fluid provides what sort of compress-ability/pedal feel)
my experience from switching over to the 5.1 (not even a full drain, merely bled the brakes and top up with the 5.1) is that the clutch feel during cold starts are very precise and doesn't "lag". as i lift of the clutch gradually the engagement is very precise compared to previous, either the car barely moves and if i lift off more i'd over do it and the horrible "manual transmission jerks " will surface as the rpm dipped too low.

SRF = http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPD...RF%20Racing.pdf ?
the viscosity on both cold/100c is almost double against bosch/motul's 5.1 fluids laugh.gif
QUOTE
Compressibility: The compressibility of Castrol React SRF Racing is very similar to that
of current DOT 3 and DOT 4 fluids. It can therefore be filled into any braking system used
in motor sport with the exception of those for which a mineral oil is prescribed. It gives a
“hard pedal” feel

i guess this make sense then? it's a bit hard on the layman/consumers if there's no actual compress-ability tests/data spec to compare with sad.gif

I see i guess that does make sense on the flushing part. At least you won't have any left over engine flush that *may* deter the performance of your new engine oil.


thanks for the insights as usual bro thumbup.gif
TSQuazacolt
post Sep 8 2014, 09:06 AM

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QUOTE(empire23 @ Sep 8 2014, 07:10 AM)
I usually attribute the lack of bite in clutch during cold starts to the friction material of the clutch itself rather than the fluid for clutch actuation. My remedy is to simply feather it for 5 seconds until the material heats up. But I guess it might be different in a Mitsubishi CJ based car as both brake and clutch share the same reservoir. My old R34 had independent reservoirs.

The SRF is more viscous but it is an ester based fluid rather than a polyglycol one. Thus the pedal feel is spongier due to compressibility being higher. Castrol have obviously tweaked the formula to limit this issue greatly, but it will be slightly different to your standard high performance based poly fluid. But otherwise its performance under stress is extremely good.
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ah good info as always thumbup.gif
really tempted on the SRF after all the info you've provided... btw regardless of what castrol mention, would there be any issue mixing silicon ester (ya that silicon keyword is a worry) with regular glycol based fluids?
TSQuazacolt
post Sep 10 2014, 03:37 PM

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QUOTE(iskazulka @ Sep 10 2014, 03:36 PM)
on my FL, proton ady updated recommend use 10w30.
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they changed the booklet or something? or got official letter/announcement?

=edit=
i actually stand corrected as iinm matrix pointed out to me the booklet for inspira is actually just a copy from mitsubishi's manual and it is also recommending 0w20

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Sep 10 2014, 03:38 PM
TSQuazacolt
post Sep 10 2014, 04:00 PM

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QUOTE(iskazulka @ Sep 10 2014, 03:56 PM)
got supplementary @additional printout. stating use 10w30. later i dig-out the print out.
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great information bro thumbup.gif thumbup.gif
will help to put on page 1 since we do have a lot of proton/campro users on LYN nod.gif
TSQuazacolt
post Sep 14 2014, 08:42 PM

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QUOTE(Mahihi @ Sep 14 2014, 03:37 PM)
New engine oil in town,welcome to get it from me and try it to believe it, tongue.gif  tongue.gif
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any info on certifications that can be publicly queried such as the API?
TSQuazacolt
post Sep 14 2014, 10:08 PM

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QUOTE(Mahihi @ Sep 14 2014, 09:45 PM)
i tot u will do all the research, tongue.gif  tongue.gif

https://engineoil.api.org/Directory/EolcsRe...dName%3Dmaxxoil

supplier told me that starting from 2015,nascar and global time attack will have their billboard on it,we shall see...
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from the link, the brand name and products don't match at all.

noticed how they did not put the proper API donut/star burst logo and i believe it's because they are not certified.
Considering they are supposedly a US company, they would get into serious trouble putting the API donut/star burst logo if they aren't actually certified sad.gif

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