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 Betta splendens Fighting Fish Club Ya'll! v2

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jaswwp
post Jul 27 2006, 11:38 AM

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From: Cheras


thanks for the tips. the 1st 3 points i think ok la, for my fish. Since CT got so many pieces of fin, I'm not sure are they all intact or not actually, but at least no white stuff or anything la. 3rd point, I chose him because he was more alive than the other fish I saw there. the 4th ...Well... considering he was put for sale inside a tiny plastic filled with 2 inches of water theres nothing much to see la. I was just hoping that he wont die on the way home that time, hehe.
meiteoh
post Jul 27 2006, 11:51 AM

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Jas: Should be okay la. smile.gif At least he is well-taken care of. ^.^ Btw, what are you feeding him apart from Hikari pellets? (Variety is the spice of life!)
jaswwp
post Jul 27 2006, 12:26 PM

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I feed him another type of pellet, but its very tiny, almost like powder. Have to ask my dad what is the brand, because he poured it out in another bottle already. What else you feed yours?
TSJitticus
post Jul 27 2006, 12:45 PM

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I feed my bettas mostly frozen bloodworms and daphnia. biggrin.gif
Also, I feed them with Atison Betta Pro. If you think your betta likes Hikari, wait till you feed them with betta Pro. smile.gif
meiteoh
post Jul 27 2006, 01:01 PM

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Hm...I give Le Bleu freeze dried (FD) bloodworms, FD tubifex worms, FD daphneia and Hikari pellets. I think he has enough of food already la. blink.gif
jaswwp
post Jul 27 2006, 01:36 PM

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Must take a long time for him to finish all that food, unless you have a few fishes, hehe.
meiteoh
post Jul 27 2006, 01:46 PM

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I only have one fish. tongue.gif
jaswwp
post Jul 27 2006, 01:55 PM

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Curious to know how much you feed your fish in 1 day? My friend feeds her betta 5 hikari pellets in the morning and 5 at night, and he grew very fat. I'm doing the same now.
meiteoh
post Jul 27 2006, 02:27 PM

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Me? I feed just once a day. Don't want him to get too fat. About three to four pellets and 1 or two bloodworms. Then once a week, I skip one day.

That's a lot you're feeding him lor... :S
jaswwp
post Jul 27 2006, 02:32 PM

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Oh, I'll try to reduce then. Its because he finishes 5 pellets in a few seconds, like starving or something, haha. I didnt feed him the 1st day I got him back, because getting him adjusted to the environment, 2nd day feed him 1 time, only 3rd day I gave 10 pellets in total for entire day. This morning already gave him 5 pellets, so I guess can skip dinner adi...hehe
meiteoh
post Jul 27 2006, 02:37 PM

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Bettas are like that. They'll eat until they explode. (Don't even try to imagine it la.) Some people say that their stomach is as big as their eye. >_<

So don't feed to much, otherwise your betta can get indigestion or worse, have swimming bladder problems.
goldfries
post Jul 27 2006, 05:59 PM

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QUOTE(meiteoh @ Jul 27 2006, 02:37 PM)
Bettas are like that. They'll eat until they explode. (Don't even try to imagine it la.) Some people say that their stomach is as big as their eye. >_<


in fact, FISH (in general) are like that. smile.gif

in the wild, they will eat what they can (practically non-stop) cos they don't know when's the next meal coming and yet they can go through quite some period without food.

another reason for not feeding betta too often would be to reduce 'damage' to water quality.
evildonkey
post Jul 27 2006, 08:03 PM

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Need some help here...anyone managed to save bettas from columnaris before?? i lost all my bettas to columnaris...the fatal sickness for me...i've already lost 2 females, 3 males to columnaris and currently my new female hmpk with symetrical and 180 degree straight edge caudal is down with columnaris again. I dun wanna lose her (best female i've ever got my hand on) so any one has any advice on this goddamn disease?

I'm currently treating her with japanese yellow powder...manage to save one of my female betta with it but that particular female died from internal infections few weeks later. Can anyone tell me where to get fish meds (antibiotics) like interpret 7 in kl??? can't find any lfs tat stock with this antibiotics here in setapak

This post has been edited by evildonkey: Jul 27 2006, 08:05 PM
yewlin
post Jul 27 2006, 09:50 PM

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QUOTE(evildonkey @ Jul 27 2006, 08:03 PM)
Need some help here...anyone managed to save bettas from columnaris before?? i lost all my bettas to columnaris...the fatal sickness for me...i've already lost 2 females, 3 males to columnaris and currently my new female hmpk with symetrical and 180 degree straight edge caudal is down with columnaris again. I dun wanna lose her (best female i've ever got my hand on) so any one has any advice on this goddamn disease?

I'm currently treating her with japanese yellow powder...manage to save one of my female betta with it but that particular female died from internal infections few weeks later. Can anyone tell me where to get fish meds (antibiotics) like interpret 7 in kl??? can't find any lfs tat stock with this antibiotics here in setapak
*
i saw interpret 7 at kok aqua..you can ask jit sin guide u there on this saturday smile.gif


yewlin
post Jul 27 2006, 09:54 PM

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hi yuekuan

that day u miss this one kekekekke...same jar when u there lucky u didn't choose it..j/k

this is confirm HM rosetail smile.gif




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evildonkey
post Jul 27 2006, 09:55 PM

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QUOTE(yewlin @ Jul 27 2006, 09:50 PM)
i saw interpret 7 at kok aqua..you can ask jit sin guide u there on this saturday smile.gif
*
Now i'm blurred as jit sin mentioned in bsm forum tat it might be fungus (slime disease)...relli dunno how to treat her

The description on the internet for both columnaris and fungus infections seems so similiar that i'm rather confuse whether which izzit that she is infected.

Here's some pics...maybe some 1 can help me confirm
user posted image
user posted image

The pics just show a bit of the "cotton"/"slime" wateva it is on da body but in reality it's covered all over the body even on top of the eye

This post has been edited by evildonkey: Jul 27 2006, 09:56 PM
evildonkey
post Jul 27 2006, 10:03 PM

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QUOTE(yewlin @ Jul 27 2006, 09:54 PM)
hi yuekuan

that day u miss this one kekekekke...same jar when u there lucky u didn't choose it..j/k

this is confirm HM rosetail smile.gif
*
Wow nice forward dorsal yewlin...the anal and the outer caudal edge needs some working though.

Bro, get ready a pail for me this sat k...i sked i might wet ur place with my drools drool.gif hehe
meiteoh
post Jul 27 2006, 10:16 PM

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I don't know if this helps but I frequent this international betta website and there is a guy who has been in this business for 20 over years. He has put up a caresheet for columnis.

I copied and pasted from the thread ( Columnis caresheet) coz you need to be a member to view the thread.

QUOTE
Columnaris: Information and Treatment
By "Ren" Weeks


What is Columnaris?
Columnaris is a disease that goes by many names. Flexibacter, mouth rot, mouth fungus, gill fungus, body fungus, saddleback columnaris, and cotton wool disease: all of these common terms describe one tenacious bacteria, Flavobacterium columnare, previously known as Flexibacter columnaris. This gram-negative, motile, rod-shaped bacteria thrives in many of the same conditions that our tropical fish also enjoy, making it especially dangerous and virulent to stressed fish. Two primary strains exist, both with potentially devastating internal and external symptoms. One is slow-developing, with symptoms appearing over several days and more easily quelled by treatment. The other can kill within hours, and is known for creating massive losses due to its extreme virulence. Regardless of the strain or progression of the disease, columnaris is nothing to be taken lightly.

What Are the Symptoms of Columnaris?
The symptoms of Columnaris vary greatly and largely depend on the strain and virulence. The most commonly observed and treatable form of columnaris often presents itself as stringy white, grey, or off-white "wool" on the fish's face, mouth, or gills. Alternate locations include the "saddle-back" presentation, in which we see a distinct band of the same substance over the back just before the base of the dorsal fin. (Other symtoms may include small gray patches on the face, gasping, and rapid fin loss, but these may be indicative of other diseases, as well.)
Left untreated, the cottony growths on the fish's body will eat away at the underlying tissues. One of the clear indicators of columnaris is a angry red ulcer with dying white tissue around its perimeter. However, you should not wait until such ulcers appear before deciding to treat! At this stage, the disease is advancing, and the fish is at great risk of secondary infections or death.

Can Columnaris be Prevented?
In most cases, Columnaris is caused by some kind of stress, and as thus, is largely preventable. Prevention is always the best medicine, especially with a disease this deadly. At this point, betta owners should really listen up, because bettas are one of the most commonly afflicted species... and their strife is also likely the most easily prevented.

Columnaris loves warm, stagnant water. It also thrives in higher PH, greater hardness, and unclean environments. Because bettas are almost always kept in warm water with no current, which is prehaps a little unclean due to the frequent lack of filtration, it is no wonder that they currently come down with this unfortunate affliction. In many cases, columnaris could have been prevented by a more stable tank environment, more frequent water changes, or the addition of a mild bubbler. Below are some suggestions about how you might improve your tank environment:

    * Stabilize the temperature. While columnaris likes environments of 76 and above, such temperatures should not create an issue if your betta is healthy. One of the leading causes of stress in bettas is temperature fluctuations, so keep your bettas in a location of the house with a stable temperature, preferably in a tank large enough to remain fairly stable. I suggest no less than 2.5 gallons.

    * Clean and pristine is the way to go. While many websites claim bettas only need to be changed once every month or so, your bettas should get at least weekly water changes, especially if they lack a filter. The smaller the tank, the more frequent the water changes should be. I change 100% of the water in my 5 gallon tanks every 7 days. Fish in smaller tanks could use to be cleaned even more often.

    * Aeration is not always the enemy. While some bettas with large fins may indeed be stressed to the point of sickness by a current, most bettas are hardy enough to handle a mild bubbler or gentle filter. Columnaris reproduces poorly in the presence of oxygen in the water, so keeping the water's oxygen content up by creating a current can help prevent columnaris, as well as other stagnant water-loving diseases like finrot.

    * Salt is safer than you think. While many aquarists are against putting any salt in with freshwater fish, they tend to forget that most natural bodies of water have a slightly higher salinity than our excessively filtered tap water. Salt has been an effective method of treatment and prevention for fish and other animals for centuries; adding a medicinal dose of salt, or even a half dose, with each cleaning can work wonders for your fish, and will usually keep away columnaris.

    * Finally, make sure your water conditions are right for bettas, not for stress and disease. As mentioned above, columnaris loves hard water and high pH. Because bettas are not as sensitive to water conditions as more delicate fish, they are often kept out of their ideal hardness and pH ranges. If your parameters are dramatically off, you may want to consider looking in to products to "reform" your unsuitable water.

My Fish has Columnaris! Help!
Although prevention helps keep columnaris out of your tanks, it is sometimes unavoidable. Maybe you recieved a fish in the mail whose trip was spent in a sweltering mail truck. Maybe you didn't notice the small gray splotches on your betta's face until you brought him home. Perhaps you just have an old boy whose immune system isn't quite up to par. Whatever the case, if your fish has symptoms that even suggest columnaris, you need to begin treatment right away. This is not a matter of "should I treat, or shouldn't I?" - it is a matter of "better safe than sorry." Remember when starting treatment that time is of the essence; I suggest doing twice daily health checks on all of your fish, and keeping a stash of medicine around the house in case of emergencies.

Below is my own personal treatment protocol, with which I have had immense sucess. It is based on suggestions from several reputable websites, as well as my own experience and knowledge. I can not guarentee that it will cure your fish, but it may give him or her a fighting chance!

    * A 100% water change should initiate all treatment. I typically use a seperate hospital tank to treat in so that the origional tank can be sterilized to reduce the chance of future outbreaks, and so that the fish can be transferred to a new, medicated environment as quickly as possible.

    * The hospital tank should be heated to approx. 74 degrees. 76 and above is the ideal breeding temperature for columnaris. Though there is some dispute over lowering the temperature, my experience has been that 72 is too low for the medication to work rapidly, 76+ causes the disease to breed more rapidly than the anti-biotic can kill, and 74 is "just right." Remember to keep this temperature stable!

    * The hospital tank should also carry the maximum medicinal dose of aquarium salt - NOT table salt. The iodine can be deadly! The dose I use, as suggested on the box, is one heaping tablespoon per 5 gallons.

    * You MUST provide aeration during treatment. Simply must. Columnaris hates cool water, salt, and oxygen; if you do not assault it with these three things, your anti-biotics are a giant waste of money, especially since anti-biotics often leech oxygen from the water.

    * Maracyn is the most useful anti-biotic I have encountered for Columnaris. It is readily available at almost any fish store, can be easily divided into treatments for tanks ranging from 2.5 to 10 gallons, and seems fairly gentle on the fish's system. You should start treatment with Maracyn immediately.

    * If possible, feed an anti-bacterial food, as columnaris typically causes both internal and external damage. Feeding Jungle Anti-Bacteria or GelTek Ampicillin greatly improves the chances of survival. If that fails, however, I suggest a very high quality pellet paired with plenty of live or frozen foods for maximum nutrition during treatment.

    * Finally, be religious with treatment and water changes. Pristine water, continued anti-biotics, loyal feeding, and a low-stress environment are all absolutely vital to columnaris treatment.

Other potentially helpful, but not necessarily proven aids in treatment and healing include the following:

    * It has been suggested that a topical application of Terramycin (not to be confused with tetracyclene) can greatly improve survival chances with columnaris. Having used this myself on fish with columnaris, I can definately say that it seems to make a difference, and is worth a try.

    * Collodial Silver is a popular remedy for almost any fish ailment. I have not personally used it when treating columnaris, but I have heard of others who have an are convinced it helps. It is worth a try, in my opinion.

    * Indian Almond Leaf lowers pH, decreases hardness, and creates water conditions more similar to a betta's natural environment. Many betta keepers suggest the use of IAL or a similar product during columnaris treatment, and I have to agree, even if only to decrease your fish's stress levels. I personally use 5mL Atison's BettaSpa and 5mL blackwater extract.

    * I personally always use Stress Guard and BioCoat in the water when treating Columnaris. Stress Guard is an anti-septic that promotes healing, and BioCoat allegedly helps promote a healthy slime coat.

The Aftermath: Caring for Bettas in Recovery
There is always plenty of information on the web on treating illnesses, but nothing about what to do during recovery. Bettas just exposed to lowered temps, strong currents, and massive doses of anti-biotics are certainly under stress, and are good candidates for re-infection with columnaris. My post-treatment care protocol starts sterilizing the tank fully; I use boiling water and high salt concentrations on the tank, gravel, and ornaments, rinsing with alternating hot and cold water, then repeating the process. This should kill any flexibacter bacteria remaining in the water.

Once the tank is sterilized, I continue with cooler, aerated water with a medicinal dose of aquarium salt for at least one week following the end of anti-biotic treatment. I also make sure the tank remains exceptionally clean for the following month, cleaning my 5g tanks every 5 days or so instead of every 7. This helps keep the water conditions unfriendly to columnaris.

Nutrition is just as important to recovery as creating a hostile environment for bacteria. While anti-biotic foods are lifesavers, they leave something to be desired nutritionally. I personally am a huge believer in the power of good nutrition's positive impact on the healing process. Because of this, I feed fish in recovery a high quality pellet, such as Hikari or Atison's, as well as rich frozen and live foods. Blood worms, brine shrimp, daphnia, black worms, mosquito larvae, neo-natal crickets, and fruit flies are all excellent choices.

In short, you essentially want to condition your bettas following an illness much like you would a breeding pair or champion fighter. Honestly, all bettas should be treated like this at all times; think of what fewer diseases we would have if we all kept our tanks a little cleaner, a little more stable, and our bettas a bit better fed!

Final Word
Columnaris is a tough disease - but it is not the end-all many aquarists and fish stores make it out to be. Please do not be discouraged and immediately opt for euthanasia when faced with this disease; it can be sucessfully treated. Results may not be immediate, and the fish may indeed suffer a significant amount of pain during treatment, but the end product - a healthy fish - is well worth it. With preventative care, early diagnosis, expedient treatment, and precise recovery care, most bettas and other fish afflicted with columnaris can expect to live a long, healthy, normal life.


Hope this was helpful.

This post has been edited by meiteoh: Jul 27 2006, 10:20 PM
yewlin
post Jul 27 2006, 10:16 PM

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QUOTE(evildonkey @ Jul 27 2006, 10:03 PM)
Wow nice forward dorsal yewlin...the anal and the outer caudal edge needs some working though.

Bro, get ready a pail for me this sat k...i sked i might wet ur place with my drools  drool.gif  hehe
*
hahaha Alex...this one is not for sell already want to keep it unless got good price brows.gif

err...about ur female hrm...i face this problem before but end up is .....sad story...if you come this saturday i show u my turq bf male now his both eye is pop out and wanted to died already... cry.gif ..but wht to do...this week i loose 2 sala bf female cry.gif cry.gif ...hope this one will safe.


now i only got HMPK wor..
if ready to spawn one i got one HM look okay one. smile.gif, you come and see yah smile.gif

if i spot another HM i will reserved for u yah..coz my batch for HM is very very low.....


yuekuan
post Jul 27 2006, 10:19 PM

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QUOTE(yewlin @ Jul 27 2006, 09:54 PM)
hi yuekuan

that day u miss this one kekekekke...same jar when u there lucky u didn't choose it..j/k

this is confirm HM rosetail smile.gif
*
haha..
vmad.gif

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