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 Has Soundbars Improved to Usable Levels?

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nazanto
post Apr 21 2019, 11:15 AM

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hi guys. i need some help in my connection setup.
i have a Yamaha YAS 207 that i plan to connect with my devices which are PS4 & Astro setup box.
So my current tv is this model Toshiba.
It has 3 hdmi(1 arc) and Digital Audio Output (Coaxial).
So i tried to connect the soundbar through hdmi, theres no sound coming out from Astro. So what i did, i plug astro & ps4 (whichever im using it) through the soundbar only then the sound is there. i think a hdmi splitter will work, but if thats the case the chromecast still wont work with it.

Can anyone suggest what should i do to ensure all these 3 things(astro,ps4 & tv built in Chromecast) will work with the sound bar. cry.gif cry.gif

SUSskyforcerld
post Apr 21 2019, 01:07 PM

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QUOTE(nazanto @ Apr 21 2019, 11:15 AM)
hi guys. i need some help in my connection setup.
i have a Yamaha YAS 207 that i plan to connect with my devices which are PS4 & Astro setup box.
So my current tv is this model Toshiba.
It has 3 hdmi(1 arc) and Digital Audio Output (Coaxial).
So i tried to connect the soundbar through hdmi, theres no sound coming out from Astro. So what i did, i plug astro & ps4 (whichever im using it) through the soundbar only then the sound is there. i think a hdmi splitter will work, but if thats the case the chromecast still wont work with it.

Can anyone suggest what should i do to ensure all these 3 things(astro,ps4 & tv built in Chromecast) will work with the sound bar. cry.gif  cry.gif
*
Not enough info. Not quiet understand what you did, but.

A simple setup would be:
1) Soundbar to TV HDMI ARC. TV Digital Coax/Optical out to Soundbar Digital Coax/Optical In.
2) PS4 to TV HDMI ( Connect to 4K HDR Capable HDMI, check TV manual which one).
3) Astro connect to soundbar via HDMI? If there is no sound, check for settings in Astro. If still cannot maybe you need to use the analog connectors from Astro box to your soundbar (i assume your soundbar has analog inputs.).
nazanto
post Apr 21 2019, 03:11 PM

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QUOTE(skyforcerld @ Apr 21 2019, 01:07 PM)
Not enough info. Not quiet understand what you did, but.

A simple setup would be:
1) Soundbar to TV HDMI ARC. TV Digital Coax/Optical out to Soundbar Digital Coax/Optical In.
2) PS4 to TV HDMI ( Connect to 4K HDR Capable HDMI, check TV manual which one).
3) Astro connect to soundbar via HDMI? If there is no sound, check for settings in Astro. If still cannot maybe you need to use the analog connectors from Astro box to your soundbar (i assume your soundbar has analog inputs.).
*
its working now.
i plug all other devices and and reset my tv setting. laugh.gif laugh.gif
Andrewtst
post Apr 22 2019, 02:38 AM

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QUOTE(GHOSTVIC @ Apr 20 2019, 07:59 PM)
According to him he did fix soundbars at customer house and arc not detected so use optical..
*
This is not a good solution provide by the sales person, only using optical if the TV don't have HDMI ARC.

Optical only support 2 Channel Stereo PCM, Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital EX, DTS Digital Sound and DTS-ES.

Optical not support 5.1/7.1 Multi-channel PCM, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Atmos, DTS-HD MA, DTS:X and also Auro3D Audio and required HDMI due to Optical bandwith not enough issue.

This post has been edited by Andrewtst: Apr 22 2019, 02:41 AM
SUSskyforcerld
post Apr 22 2019, 10:10 AM

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QUOTE(Andrewtst @ Apr 22 2019, 02:38 AM)
This is not a good solution provide by the sales person, only using optical if the TV don't have HDMI ARC.

Optical only support 2 Channel Stereo PCM, Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital EX, DTS Digital Sound and DTS-ES.

Optical not support 5.1/7.1 Multi-channel PCM, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Atmos, DTS-HD MA, DTS:X and also Auro3D Audio and required HDMI due to Optical bandwith not enough issue.
*
Actually, current ARC implementation doesn't support any of those. It's pretty much same as optical, only DD and DTS 5.1. DD+ is hit and miss at best. Only advantage of ARC currently is CEC.

We have to wait for future implementation of eARC to get proper implementation.

https://www.lifewire.com/audio-return-channel-1846845

I am curious, do you get DD True HD, DD Atmos etc from your TV to your soundbar via ARC?
rx330
post Apr 22 2019, 10:34 AM

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QUOTE(skyforcerld @ Apr 20 2019, 02:00 PM)
That is not true. As long you have High speed HDMI cable with Ethernet, it is fine. Most cables today are capable of it. There is no such thing as HDMI 2.0 or 1.4 cable  its just marketing talk. The HDMI version refers to the device itself. I recommend you to buy UGREEN HDMI cables from Lazada from the official UGREEN Shop. UGREEN sells high quality stuff at great prices. Dont be con into expensive cables at Harvey Norman and such.

The reason ARC fails is there is no proper implementation by all the manufacturers. There is stronger push for eARC. So in future equipments with eARC should work better with each other. One big problem i encountered with HDMI ARC today is the audio delay...unless your TV has some options to delay the video to sync with the audio, it will be a problem.

Basically best solution is still TV streamer/player box to AVR/soundbar then to TV. It is the best bet.
*
ic

so it means if I get a 1st gen hdmi, those 2008 or earlier ones

and I plug it to a current tv n soundbar with ARC , its going to work as per normal? regardless of 1.4 or 2.0 ? as long the hdmi cable that era is built as high speed cable with ethernet?
rx330
post Apr 22 2019, 10:34 AM

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QUOTE(skyforcerld @ Apr 20 2019, 02:00 PM)
That is not true. As long you have High speed HDMI cable with Ethernet, it is fine. Most cables today are capable of it. There is no such thing as HDMI 2.0 or 1.4 cable  its just marketing talk. The HDMI version refers to the device itself. I recommend you to buy UGREEN HDMI cables from Lazada from the official UGREEN Shop. UGREEN sells high quality stuff at great prices. Dont be con into expensive cables at Harvey Norman and such.

The reason ARC fails is there is no proper implementation by all the manufacturers. There is stronger push for eARC. So in future equipments with eARC should work better with each other. One big problem i encountered with HDMI ARC today is the audio delay...unless your TV has some options to delay the video to sync with the audio, it will be a problem.

Basically best solution is still TV streamer/player box to AVR/soundbar then to TV. It is the best bet.
*
ic

so it means if I get a 1st gen hdmi, those 2008 or earlier ones

and I plug it to a current tv n soundbar with ARC , its going to work as per normal? regardless of 1.4 or 2.0 ? as long the hdmi cable that era is built as high speed cable with ethernet?
SUSskyforcerld
post Apr 22 2019, 10:39 AM

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QUOTE(rx330 @ Apr 22 2019, 10:34 AM)
ic

so it means if I get a 1st gen hdmi, those 2008 or earlier ones

and I plug it to a current tv n soundbar with ARC , its going to work as per normal? regardless of 1.4 or 2.0 ? as long the hdmi cable that era is built as high speed cable with ethernet?
*
I can't say for sure your HDMI cables back in 2008 capable of high speed or not. If wanna be sure, just buy a UGREEN cable lah...cheap only. In fact i have a UGREEN 3M cable capable of 4k60p lying around the house, bought wrongly (too long, need shorter). If you want can PM me. laugh.gif

This post has been edited by skyforcerld: Apr 22 2019, 10:40 AM
rx330
post Apr 22 2019, 10:50 AM

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QUOTE(skyforcerld @ Apr 22 2019, 10:39 AM)
I can't say for sure your HDMI cables back in 2008 capable of high speed or not. If wanna be sure, just buy a UGREEN cable lah...cheap only. In fact i have a UGREEN 3M cable capable of 4k60p lying around the house, bought wrongly (too long, need shorter). If you want can PM me.  laugh.gif
*
hahahah no need

I recycle some old usable cables

seems hor, those come with the box or tv or equipment ones work ok

and as what you say, get those a bit reputable or brands cable better, no name 3rd party cheap and not workable
its like those days when ppl say all hdmi are the same, its just 1 and 0 , but when u plug it in, basket, doesn't work, especially for ARC or CEC
SUSskyforcerld
post Apr 22 2019, 10:53 AM

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QUOTE(rx330 @ Apr 22 2019, 10:50 AM)
hahahah no need

I recycle some old usable cables

seems hor, those come with the box or tv or equipment ones work ok

and as what you say, get those a bit reputable or brands cable better, no name 3rd party cheap and not workable
its like those days when ppl say all hdmi are the same, its just 1 and 0 , but when u plug it in, basket, doesn't work, especially for ARC or CEC
*
yeah, usually those came with the equipments are good quality. Like if you got PS4, use the HDMI cable that comes with PS4 to test.
rx330
post Apr 22 2019, 10:56 AM

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QUOTE(GHOSTVIC @ Apr 20 2019, 07:59 PM)
Today i went to harverynorman.. so i asked the sales person to test LGSK9 connect to nu8000 demo tv. 1 person wanted to test. Another person stopped him wanted to know why ? So i claimed i worry if ARC doesn't works between.
3rd person suggested to use optical cable instead of arc. I claimed there is some restriction.
Then they claimed yes will have problem with ARC why not just get samsung sound bar should be compatible..

I condemn samsung tv sound system itself sucks, soundbar i have no confident.
Another person challenged me do you know who build sound system for samsung is "harmon kardon" own by them.
He showed me one of the samsung sound bar which written "samsung harmonkardon" top of it..

they want ppl use additional sound system ofcoz will not design highend in tv, business factor.
Then i had no choice went to check other bars again . now diff sales person.. he suggested to get YAS207.. tested side to side. with sony 9000F...
Ofcos YAS207 tremendous i agree.. this plug and play no settings needed..
He claimed 100% sure YAMAHA and SONY ARC works but LG not. YAMAHA is true dolby they just wanted to enter market with first dts surround sound bar to kill other brands. High selling model according to him.
He asked better dont get SK9Y.. if not much source connecting to sound bar then 1 hdmi in enough..
According to him he did fix soundbars at customer house and arc not detected so use optical..

None of them talked about high speed ethernet HDMI ARC issue.. damn it..

I think you guys should be sales person there to explain customer in detail..hahaha

Which brand hdmi is advisable brothers, i personally have 3. The last i bought is kameha brand..
*
sad to say, this is happening almost everywhere

every shop I went to, when looking for hdmi cables, or the technician assembling the soundbar and tv at my house
says some not compatible la, have to use optical

hell, even the Samsung technician that came over my house
we did all sort of settings, set to hdmi 1.4, or 1.2 do everything

end of the day, just change the hdmi cable to a proper one, and whoila it works

also some times, it gets moody , where CEC doesn't work, just remove the power source of soundbar and power back


Andrewtst
post Apr 22 2019, 11:59 AM

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QUOTE(skyforcerld @ Apr 22 2019, 10:10 AM)
Actually, current ARC implementation doesn't support any of those. It's pretty much same as optical, only DD and DTS 5.1. DD+ is hit and miss at best. Only advantage of ARC currently is CEC.

We have to wait for future implementation of eARC to get proper implementation.

https://www.lifewire.com/audio-return-channel-1846845

I am curious, do you get DD True HD, DD Atmos etc from your TV to your soundbar via ARC?
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I can't said it is support, it is required, you need connect your multimedia devices to the Soundbar HDMI-IN and later Soundbar HDMI ARC to TV ARC.
Direct connect device to TV ARC then not support.

eARC wise is implemented even direct connect to TV eARC also work, not necessary connect to Soundbar HDMI-IN as the bandwidth is enough for it.

I get Dolby Atmos TrueHD when connect directly connect my 4K UHD Blu-ray player to Soundbar HDMI-IN and the Soundbar is showing it as Dolby Atmos.
As for Apple TV 4K local movie playback, it is decode by the Apple TV 4K as Multi-channel PCM and later pass thru Soundbar.

The sound differences is obvious it is TrueHD or DD.

This post has been edited by Andrewtst: Apr 22 2019, 12:06 PM
SUSskyforcerld
post Apr 22 2019, 12:05 PM

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QUOTE(Andrewtst @ Apr 22 2019, 11:59 AM)
I can't said it is support, it is required, you need connect your multimedia devices to the Soundbar HDMI-IN and later Soundbar HDMI ARC to TV ARC.
Direct connect device to TV ARC then not support.
*
ic, basically this means the traditional way of sending the signal to the soundbar/AVR for decode, not returning via ARC.
Andrewtst
post Apr 22 2019, 12:06 PM

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QUOTE(skyforcerld @ Apr 22 2019, 12:05 PM)
ic, basically this means the traditional way of sending the signal to the soundbar/AVR for decode, not returning via ARC.
*
Ya, ARC is still very rubbish, not only it can't pass thru any lossless sound, it also have sound delay issue, need eARC for solving all this issue and run proper returning. Haha!

This post has been edited by Andrewtst: Apr 22 2019, 01:45 PM
rx330
post Apr 22 2019, 04:41 PM

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QUOTE(Andrewtst @ Apr 22 2019, 11:59 AM)
I can't said it is support, it is required, you need connect your multimedia devices to the Soundbar HDMI-IN and later Soundbar HDMI ARC to TV ARC.
Direct connect device to TV ARC then not support.

eARC wise is implemented even direct connect to TV eARC also work, not necessary connect to Soundbar HDMI-IN as the bandwidth is enough for it.

I get Dolby Atmos TrueHD when connect directly connect my 4K UHD Blu-ray player to Soundbar HDMI-IN and the Soundbar is showing it as Dolby Atmos.
As for Apple TV 4K local movie playback, it is decode by the Apple TV 4K as Multi-channel PCM and later pass thru Soundbar.

The sound differences is obvious it is TrueHD or DD.
*
till today, my cheapo ear can't tell diff btwn DD or TrueHD

last week, I change all my analogue cables to something of better quality, spending quite a bit of money for me, and.... sounds the same hahahah
SSJBen
post Apr 22 2019, 05:47 PM

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Do you know why the audio industry which compared to the video industry, being so much smaller yet has some of the highest return of margin profits in the entertainment reproduction sector?

Because 99% of people are ignorant and every year, people get even dumber. Then we have the blind leading the blind in forums.

I can't sell you science, but if I sell you enough bullshit - I get my holiday to any Europe country easily. Do you know how easy it is to sell bullshit in the audio industry? Even easier than making a killing with fake VCDs.

Ironic isn't it how only the audio industry "manufacturers" can get away with selling bullshit?

This post has been edited by SSJBen: Apr 22 2019, 05:48 PM
SUSskyforcerld
post Apr 22 2019, 06:25 PM

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QUOTE(rx330 @ Apr 22 2019, 04:41 PM)
till today, my cheapo ear can't tell diff btwn DD or TrueHD

last week, I change all my analogue cables to something of better quality, spending quite a bit of money for me, and.... sounds the same hahahah
*
Maybe you don't have the right source? I have tested a couple of DD True HD and DTS-MA, can tell the difference significantly.

All my cables are cheap. Ayam cheap jing. laugh.gif
Andrewtst
post Apr 22 2019, 07:32 PM

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QUOTE(rx330 @ Apr 22 2019, 04:41 PM)
till today, my cheapo ear can't tell diff btwn DD or TrueHD

last week, I change all my analogue cables to something of better quality, spending quite a bit of money for me, and.... sounds the same hahahah
*
If you can't tell, advice you test the same movie but different audio format. Then you will easier spot the differences.

Compression from Dolby is like MP3 where they is shaking noise there.

Compression from AAC wise is very ok and more closed to lossless track but still there is differences on it.

This post has been edited by Andrewtst: Apr 22 2019, 07:33 PM
AVFAN
post Apr 22 2019, 07:41 PM

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QUOTE(rx330 @ Apr 22 2019, 04:41 PM)
till today, my cheapo ear can't tell diff btwn DD or TrueHD

last week, I change all my analogue cables to something of better quality, spending quite a bit of money for me, and.... sounds the same hahahah
*
bro, u r using player->tv->soundbar or old avr?

of course u hear no diff becos yr audio system can't deliver!! biggrin.gif

rx330
post Apr 23 2019, 11:30 AM

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hahahahah
what ben says its very true kekeke

I have been trying this when they 1st launch HD audio, remember I bought the 1st gen HD receiver

switch dd then true hd no difference, anyway I give up on this dy, just make sure I enjoy the whole experience

@avfan boss, don't see my sound system no up la, other than SB I also doing Atmos on AVR la
audio sounds best when u dig ur ears clean clean, trust me kekekekek

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