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 Has Soundbars Improved to Usable Levels?

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SSJBen
post Nov 11 2013, 12:00 AM

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Well, they are getting better... but not at the rate where I thought it would be at. The problem with soundbars is not because they sound horrible, it's because they don't sound good enough for how much they cost.

The few that I found which are good soundbars for the money are:

- LG NB4530a
- LG NB3530a
- Sony CT-260
- Philips Fidelio HTL9100

The Sony HT-ST7 you listed is just... bad. Really bad. Considering how much it cost, it makes it all the worse.

We're still in the stage where a good RM1.5k 2.1 system will still beat any (if not most) soundbar on the market today however.
SSJBen
post Nov 11 2013, 06:56 PM

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QUOTE(AuTheOwl @ Nov 11 2013, 02:56 PM)
The thing with sound bar is that if the TV isn't mounted on the wall the sound bar tends to block a portion of the TV.
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You can always mount the soundbar above the TV on the wall, in fact it is actually better this way as typically the soundbar will be just slighty above your ear level thus improving the soundstage.
SSJBen
post Nov 12 2013, 10:29 PM

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QUOTE(idoblu @ Nov 11 2013, 09:08 PM)
if your TV on a bench, put the soundbar at the lower shelf
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No.
Never ever place soundbar lower than your ear level, a soundbar's SQ is largely determined by its environment. Placing it too low means sound is harder to reflect off the walls to create a wider soundstage, this is important because soundbars do not have the power to project enough volume to fill most living rooms (even if its an apartment or condominium) without sounding tinny in response.

QUOTE(chanhin @ Nov 12 2013, 01:29 PM)
My experinces with sound bar is terrible as I am comparing to normal hifi expectation.

With RM3k sound bar, the price can buy a stereo amp with decent speakers. Even a RM1k amp + RM1k+ speaker like Wharfedale Diamond 10.2 will perform much better than sound bar.

The only logical reason to use sound bar is there are woman in house complaits about looks and insist on simplicity looks...  whistling.gif
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There are plenty of other logical reasons to get a soundbar actually.

- For a kid's room, where they can just stay in there and play their games.
- For a bachelor who has a rather small room where it is even hard to play a 2.1 system + amp.
- For someone who just wants simplicity but not use shitty TV speakers.

That said, RM3k soundbars aren't worth the money and is a stupid amount to pay for. The ideal spot for a soundbar is under RM1k or so IMO.
SSJBen
post Nov 19 2013, 02:30 AM

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QUOTE(Drian @ Nov 18 2013, 02:20 PM)
Generally soundbar has to be more expensive than a 2.1 speaker simply because it has more features and complexity. You need design in the wireless audio for the subwoofer. You need to design in the extra LCD and the IR remote circuitry. Probably need to be able to accept more inputs(optical, hdmi, coaxial, etc).  Need to decode DTS. Some comes with bluetooth function.
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Still doesn't mean that many soundbars should cost over RM3k. Illogical, regardless of what they cram in.
The sad reality is that there are far more people who cares about looks and simplicity when it comes to audio equipments, rather than people who actually care about sound quality.

Why do you think beats is still surviving? shakehead.gif

This post has been edited by SSJBen: Nov 19 2013, 02:31 AM
SSJBen
post Nov 19 2013, 02:34 PM

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QUOTE(Drian @ Nov 19 2013, 12:59 PM)
3k is probably too much 1k range seems reasonable given the extra features that they give on top of a typical 2.1 system.
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Agreed. Which is why I shorten out a list of soundbars at the RM1k range. Once again though for everyone, even a "multimedia" 2.1 system like the Hivi Swans M50w will handedly beat any soundbar at the RM1k market.
SSJBen
post Dec 13 2013, 11:25 AM

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QUOTE(redlum @ Dec 13 2013, 10:47 AM)
Many thanks for the fast feedback  rclxm9.gif  Just a quick question. Do the movies you watch do they come with DTS-track? Have you watched any true bluray movies and would there be a difference for those movies?
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There wouldn't be. This is because soundbars are basically 2.1 setups, any multi-channel source will just be downmixed into a stereo source.
After that, a soundbar's DSP (if available) will play that downmix sournce in virtual surround if the user enables it.

There are a few exceptions though, some soundbars do come with additional rear speakers for a 5.1 setup. If you have these, then yeah the DTS/DD 5.1 track would make a difference.
SSJBen
post Dec 14 2013, 02:57 AM

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QUOTE(redlum @ Dec 13 2013, 08:35 PM)
I understand it will of course downmix the source but as it can decode the DTS signal according to it specification it could do a difference. I'm not sure though.
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It decodes DTS tracks automatically so the user don't have to go through the trouble of enabling 2.0 LPCM from the source (TV, player, PC or console) manually for the soundbar to play anything.
So no... audio quality wise, it doesn't do a difference.
SSJBen
post Apr 7 2014, 09:33 PM

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Looking forward to Sony's CT330 and CT770. Will be released this month and if it can keep it under the RM1.5k range, it would be interesting (although honestly they aren't worth more than RM1k to be honest).
SSJBen
post Apr 12 2014, 08:25 PM

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QUOTE(TheEvilMan @ Apr 11 2014, 10:57 PM)
ct-260, it sound awesome if u have high quality input, but how frequent u have good media with that kind of quality :/
and it doesn't distribute the sound and subwoofer nicely, tried many positioning but not much improvement, mainly use it for video gaming btw
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That's because, if you did a bit of research: the CT260 is notorious for subwoofer lag.

The sub does not blend well with the soundbar simply because of the lag, you can minimize it by putting them side by side but even then, it doesn't help due to its poor implementation on its wireless frequency.
Many other soundbars employ their own frequency to work with the sub (not the standard 2.4ghz/5ghz wave), Sony doesn't... for whatever freaking reason. doh.gif
SSJBen
post Apr 13 2014, 03:10 PM

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QUOTE(TheEvilMan @ Apr 13 2014, 07:04 AM)
i was thinking of those 5ch surround system, but they always come with a player and i have no clue of how to connect the speaker to the tv without the player so the sound come directly from the tv not the player itself, heard that it can be done but i'm noob in this field sad.gif
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Most HTIBs these days has at least an optical input on its Blu-ray player. Many even has HDMI inputs.
It is as straight forward as it can be, don't know why it's confusing. TV > Blu Ray player > speakers. That's it.
SSJBen
post Apr 14 2014, 03:04 PM

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QUOTE(ADJ @ Apr 14 2014, 12:54 PM)
Had a brief listen many months ago, it actually sounds good. Warm, bassy, with a fairly good soundstage. I would like the sub to be tighter in its presentation as the bass lacks texture and can indeed bleed into the low-mids quite often however.
It's a very barebones soundbar, sound quality first and everything else second.

The problem with the SB23SW is its functionality. It's really thick and that means you either need to be hanging your TV or have it on a pedestal, because the soundbar WILL obstruct vision to ANY TV under 60". Also, because it has no display, it means you have to go by memory to set up your functions. Not a big deal if you're tech savvy enough, but the majority of people who would buy a soundbar wants simplicity and this here could be a deal breaker. Not knowing what you press and screwing everything up, is an issue for many, many people.

Lack of HDMI ports (which other competitors at the SB23W price range offers) is a downpoint too. Pioneer could easily fit in 2 HDMI ports with a switch with the depth it has on the soundbar, I have no idea why they didn't. It wouldn't have hindered sound quality anyways.
Then there's the price, don't know why SenQ is selling it for RM1.7k but a soundbar like this isn't worth more than 1.2k.
SSJBen
post Apr 14 2014, 03:53 PM

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QUOTE(ADJ @ Apr 14 2014, 03:36 PM)
good observations. The Senq price is RCP, so maybe other places could offer better pricing. Like you said, it's if SQ comes first, but I think the latest Philips Fidelio is also quite competitive...
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Which Fidelio? The HTL7180 or HTL9100?

My impressions on the HTL9100 was:

QUOTE(SSJBen @ Feb 8 2014, 02:17 AM)
It's available at Harvey Norman now, RM3000 however (which is overpriced).

I do not own it anymore, but I have tested it enough and I truly think that the HTL9100 is the best soundbar on the market now without paying even more for a Yamaha or JBL which doesn't even sound as good as the HTL9100.

On its own in 2.1 mode, it's just scintillating in how much detail the soundbar has in the mids (perhaps best of any soundbar so far), yet the soundstage is sufficient enough to rival even some high-end 2.1 speakers. The mid-treble is a little bit on the neutral side, but on the absolute highs there is enough energy in the HTL9100 without sounding harsh.
The sub then is obviously not going to even rival any mid-end sub you can get individually in a custom 2.1 setup, but at the very least the mid-bass hits with plenty of impact for its size and rarely bleeds into the mids. I do want more sub-bass for the rumbling factor and wouldn't mind for the sub to be a little bit tighter too.

Okay then, the main feature of the HTL9100... detach the sides and it becomes a 5.1 setup, though it's more like 4.1. There is no center speaker in the HTL9100, but the soundstage is wide enough to present the phantom center speaker not to lack too much detail. The detachable speakers may sound gimmicky, but boy does it sound pretty darn decent.
It obviously will not compare even to a modest entry level setup like the Pioneer Andrew Jones SP series of speakers. It does however rival something like a Sony N9100 HTIB, just with less volume.

There's enough detail in the rear speakers, without sounding muted and thin and 5.1 is always a welcome in movies, especially when it isn't half-assed like in many entry-level HTIBs today. The detached speakers has a battery life rated at 10 hours, but I think mine died out in under 5-7 hours though keep in mind I was playing at a relatively high volume (around 70%).

So then, is the HTL9100 worth RM3000? Not really, if sound quality is of the utmost importance to you. You can get a Pioneer HTP-AJ523 for just slightly more and that would handedly beat the HTL9100 with no answers from the latter. But if you need simplicity and you are planning to have a system in a rather small living room or even a bedroom, there's really not much else better than a HTL9100 other than going for a custom 2.1 setup.

If the HTL9100 is half the price of what it is selling now, it'd be an instant no-brainer for most moderate consumers I believe.
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SSJBen
post Apr 14 2014, 11:40 PM

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I wish I'd have the chance to compare both the Pioneer SB23SW and Philips HTL9100 side by side for a more conclusive comparison in the near future.
The time I had spent between them is too far apart, so I cannot really remember how well the HTL9100 actually is.

I think the Pioneer at least matches the Philips in clarity on the mids and has a better tonal balance. The Philips has a wider soundstage and is a brighter soundbar overall, where as the Pioneer is more on the warm tilt.

The price difference is obviously a big issue though... lol. RM2.8k on the HTL9100 is downright stupid. doh.gif

If Pioneer can release a sucessor to the SB23W with a tighter sub, a front display panel that shows info and a couple of HDMI ports, then still price at around the RM1.5k range, I'd call it a winner.

This post has been edited by SSJBen: Apr 14 2014, 11:45 PM
SSJBen
post Apr 15 2014, 02:50 PM

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QUOTE(arslow @ Apr 15 2014, 10:53 AM)
have you heard the sony st3 and st7 before? Wonder if sony themselves aren't happy with it. Since they only came out late last year right? and there's a replacement already.
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ST and CT series are 2 different line-ups. So the the upcoming CT330 and CT770 won't be replacing the ST series.
I doubt Malaysia will get both the 330 and 770 though, most probably the CT330 will only be coming in to replace the very old CT260. I'm hope I'm wrong of course.

I've heard the ST7 before. Didn't like it. It's got a pretty wide soundstage (rivaling the Philips HT9100), but the mids are too recessed for my liking. There's very little grunt, bass doesn't match well to bring out the impact in action movies. It's just dull sounding, neither wanting to be a dark nor bright, the ST7 is sort of like a soundbar with an identity crisis. Sony tried to make it a soundbar which does everything well, but unfortunately while it sounds decent, the price says a different thing.

Also having "7.1" directly from the soundbar is just meaningless. The similarly priced Philips HTL9100 with its detachable speakers and offering only 4.1 sounds so much more immersive with better positional cues.
For RM3k, I truly expected a lot more than this. RM3k is bloody hell a lot to spend on a soundbar and it's made worse when a custom 2.1 setup with an entry-level AVR would just mop the entire floor off the ST7 with no sweat, I see no reason to own one.

Haven't heard the ST3, so can't say anything about that.

This post has been edited by SSJBen: Apr 15 2014, 02:53 PM
SSJBen
post Apr 16 2014, 02:01 PM

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QUOTE(TheEvilMan @ Apr 16 2014, 11:21 AM)
So which one to go?  Soundbar is somehow more expensive in comparison to those 5ch speaker combo, somr even sell as high as 2k, but is the quality really better or just because of its modern stylish compact design?
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That depends on how your living room/bedroom is setup to be like. The shape of the room and the size most importantly. Other factors are important too, but that's another topic.
A lot of people jump into a 5.1 setup without first looking at their room then ended up with dissapointing results. Sound bounces off objects and reflects off walls.

I've always believed that soundbars are meant for small bedrooms or small SOHOs.
SSJBen
post Apr 16 2014, 02:10 PM

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QUOTE(TheEvilMan @ Apr 16 2014, 02:06 PM)
so any good soundbar other than that ht-260 i'm currently using? (it's a big turn off sad.gif )
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LG NB4530 if you don't want to go above RM1.2k.
Other than that, you could want for the upcoming CT330 which shold be around the RM1.3k mark or lower.

Above that, I'd suggest starting to look for custom 2.1 setups.
SSJBen
post May 3 2014, 08:40 PM

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QUOTE(jimmyteng18 @ May 3 2014, 08:38 PM)
Yamaha YS-2200 with Philips HTL9100?

Which is better?
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The Philips.
SSJBen
post May 14 2014, 05:15 AM

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QUOTE(defqon1 @ May 14 2014, 04:33 AM)
Hi, Just got the HTL9100 philips fidelio from Legends Sri Petaling at RM2299 + RM99 for the Philips media player which I believe it's actually complimentary from philips anyway doesn't bother me much as it's still cheaper to be compare with Harvey or seng heng which is now selling at rm2699. Retail price is RM2999. Well must admit I really like this soundbar. It sounds great, it’s versatile, and I think the surround-on-demand option is a really neat idea. If you want good sound without the hassle of trailing cables and fiddly set-ups, this is the way to go. Anyway just want to find out with you guys about the cable connection for audio and video. FYI, I m hooking up this system with my Sony Smart tv. Question 1:Which cable actually gives or produce the best AUDIO output from my tv to the soundbar? Is it the HDMI or Optical cable?
Question 2:  Which cable can pump out the best video from Philip Media player to my Sony Tv? should I use the HDMI ARC or supposed just normal HDMI input for video connection? PLs advice. Cheers!
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1) Both. HDMI and Optical are digital connections, doesn't matter which you use.
2) Read no.1.
SSJBen
post May 14 2014, 03:08 PM

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QUOTE(ktek @ May 14 2014, 11:56 AM)
hdmi support newer lossless format like dolby true hd and dts master audio.
optical cannot sad.gif

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The HTL9100 doesn't decode DDTHD or DTSMA, so it doesn't mean jack. I was explaining in the that context.
SSJBen
post May 22 2014, 03:04 PM

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Everyone, please, please, PLEASE keep in mind that when you test soundbars in stores/shops, do take into account of your surroundings. Soundbars sound like utter crap in a wide open area because they have no walls to reflect their sound to, they are simply not powerful and dynamic enough give you that upfront detail while continuing to provide a wide soundstage on their own.

So doesn't mean a soundbar that sounds like trash in a store will actually sound like a pig in your bedroom or small living room. They will sound different.

Lost count on the amount of times that people got suckered into buying something by the store employees simply because they get to earn a higher commission.

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