Bro Rooney.. u should NOT splurge on IWCs.. splurge on Rolex instead.
My friend who is into quite expert about timepieces did some research and found that of all second-tier priced timepieces, Rolex maintains or increases their value best in long term.

But i do understand youngster like u like IWCs more than Lolex. Uncles like me.. on the other hand (no pun intended) prefer classic brands.. LOL.

I don't understand... so I google translated for everyone's convenience.

out of topic bro.
we should discuss about property, any new launch nearby 200m to 500m from LRT station?

Yea, value preservation did cross my mind but not all Rolex pieces maintain or increase in value really depending on the model... Anyways I'm more into the enjoyment of the watch rather than value preservation.

And you're spot on... I think I'll only appreciate Rolex when I'm closer to retirement age... although I do have a soft spot for the blue dial submariner...

I like this. Always think of negative negative right and try to spread the negative energy around so that everybody will feel down.

Well I feel very positive and just Burn Baby Burn! to the negativity.

Oh yeah I dont undestand chinese, just reading the translated one from slickz

ok got my loan approve but 70 percent only for 2nd loan..price higher than what I wanted but lower than the current asking prices..so go ahead and buy because its gonna be UUU or abort because its gonna be DDD?

Its BBB baby! Kidding.

oh just saw another advert with better location but a leasehold..the current one that I have a booking is a freehold...phew!! some of the advert I monitored has shown slight reduction in asking prices..but a unit that I actually went to see like two weeks ago is now asking for more! lol!

read my previous post before commenting la.

and when you talk about inflation.. it's even worst if you keep cold hard cash. u know that right?

All you need to do is calculate the rental you are collecting. RM1.5k x 12 x 5 = rm90k.

So next calculate the total installment.. RM1k x 12 x 5 + rm165 x 12 x 5 + rm7.5k.

Do a simple math and now tell me are you losing money? Man such simple maths and you failed.. no wonder you joined the down camp I suppose? Don't just bash without thinking. start to use a pen and paper.. with your calculator.. do calculations to everything you about to doubt..

Oh shit.. I have not even factor in if the rental increases... nah nvm.. the above is good enough to justify as a quick glance calculation.

This post has been edited by kidmad: Aug 16 2013, 06:32 PM

I just saw and realised the negativity of this post.

I live in such rundown flats before laa. I said that it is liveavle condition. And the price 100k, you pay with what you get. Dont expect a grand apartment in the middle of KL la for 100k. And dont blame the purchasers who managed to buy a good apartment that is worth 600k now when last time it was worth 400k.

It is easy for me to say to stay in rundown apartment becuase there is much more worst than that. U can be homeless!
And again i live in such rundown apartment before and for 100k and if i earn 2k a mnth, i dont mind getting one for me to live with my family. Accept the fact that some properties are out of reAch and buy what you can. I mean you bought a Proton right? Same thing. But that flat is more value for money than a Proton.

Down camp the negative camp. I like to spread the positive.

Dude I bought proton bcos at that time bcos I could only afford proton. But that doesnt mean back then I dun think proton is overpriced for its quality. It s becos lack of choices due to circumstances.
Acknowledging it is overpriced doesnt mean I m negative and did nothing about it. Now I drive a Beemer and I still think Beemer in Malaysia is overpriced. In fact I think all cars in malaysia is overpriced. So is that negativity or simply acknowledging a financial fact?
If u r investing u need to acknowledge not every investment bring positive return. Some are good and some are toxic assets.
Just because ppl have contrary view to u doesnt make us negative.

This post has been edited by cockee: Aug 16 2013, 07:47 PM

Bro contrary view is contrary view. But the view can be negative or positive. Be honest and tell me your contrary view is it negative or positive? Dunt be like that guy who die die die wanna win debate one but kena KO'd me lots of times. But then of course dat guy makes more sense according to u. Sure if that is what u think.

I say is OK to live in a 100k run down apartment that is actually very near KLCC. Is that a positive or negative view? I am encouraging people to do it but you are discouraging them right? In fact i want to suggest my brother to buy dat flat actually. But giv it some time, i will suggest it to him soon.

Financial fact can be acknowledged of course, but always bringing possible negative things that could happen but never happen just to make people feel very scared and down, total negativity ler. Again contrary view can be positif and can be negative too. Tell me honestly who is spreading this prophecy of doomsday for Malaysian economy? The DDD or the UUU? Again dont be like some people who die die die want to win debate one. Just accept that the view is negative.

And I'd rather buy dat flat instead of a Proton.

This post has been edited by AmayaBumibuyer: Aug 16 2013, 08:23 PM

Good luck trying to talk sense to this person... His understanding of finance and economics is as poor as his English... However having said that... And to be positive he has skin as thick and as hard as a brick wall... He doesn't know when he's beaten and when people don't even want to entertain his BS just like when he advises others no to think so much but no body replies him... Just let him be with his shoe boxes and debt up to his eyeballs. Lol!!! How sad... Advice you to refer back to Lucerne's advice ignore, smile and walk away... I'll add some extra to that empty vessels make the most noise.

Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla.
u can buli d other guy but u cant buli me.

I am so happy i m going to get my key soon. See positive!

Ooh i just realised he attack my english too. Aiseii my english also want to attack kaa? I must be really under ur skin.

And i should say i am so happy to get my keys! I forgot i bought more than 1.

If my previous post offended you, I am sorry. I am just trying to enlighten you and other forumers that a property which doesn't appreciate over 5 years will bring you more harm than good. If you bought a property that doesn't appreciate? BAM, you'll be in a deep mess. I hope all future buyers will understand the costs and risks of buying a property before jumping onto the bandwagon.

Even cold hard cash has yield, which are from FD interest rates. If you can't beat FD rates of 3.5% (or 4.2% loan interest rate) per annum, you are better off not buying the property, just keep cash in the bank or not take a loan, less hassle. FYI, there are many other types of investments.

Calculating your profit from property investment isn't as easy as you think. A simple math wouldn't work. You have to calculate amortization, especially if you are taking a loan. Look here: http://mortgage-x.com/calculators/amortization.htm . Not to forget all form of taxes and fees; renovations costs, maintenance, stamp duty, agent commissions, quit rent, S&P legal fees, loan legal fees, RPGT tax, etc.

Speaking of which, how often can you find a rented property that covers installment (RM1k) and get additional 50% (RM1.5k) loose cash as bonus? What makes you think you can increase the rent of a property that hasn't appreciate over 5 years. You'll be begging for your tenant not to leave, I assure you. Lots of assumptions on your side.

Btw, I am in the UUU camp, I'll be better off if the prices of properties shoot to the moon I am just being realistic.

for someone who had already bought my 3rd recently. Im pretty aware of where i'm putting my money in. perhaps your finding excuses to justify your points? You are talking about a investment which doesn't make any appreciation please do not compare with FD or anything. If you are doing a deposit why are you comparing with a investment?

Next again you are wrong.. taxes and fees like? please dont just say tax and fees dont assume. renovation cost have you calculated how much you need for a decent one? Let me tell you it's approx rm9.5k which i've included as part of my initial payment. agent comission? hello it's part of the 10% what talk you? SPA legal feels loan legal fees do you know how many percent you need there? Let me give you the exact amount for a 250k home purchase. cause i still save my formulas.

Prop 250k
DP - 25k
SNP - 6.7k - 2.5k rebate if it's your 1st home
LOA - rm7.5 inclusive of mrta
repayment for 35 years? RM1071

rm9.5k to have 3 airconds - 2 water heather - washing machine, fridge and that's all you need. the rest all for KC.

As for the highlighted part i've done that.. it's no rocket science.. 3 years back there are abunden of rm250k condominium. Google up my property. puri ayu condominium. Check out the price and check out the rental it's always between rm1.4 - rm1.6k. Some ppl are even more greedy wanting rm1.8k. Again i've done that and it's not an assumption. Perhaps you are the one who are making an assumption.

Oh and how often property at such price doesn't appreciate? Oh so now your UUU camp? and again i'm here to stand.. you are not going to lose even if it does not appreciate. If you are selling them in the 1st 5 years then yes but after 5 years selling it? no. Why? I've calculated it in my excel spreadsheet on the breakdown of cost TCO and ROI.

This post has been edited by kidmad: Aug 16 2013, 11:28 PM

What's wrong comparing property investments with FD or any other investments? Property investment is after all one of many investment classes, unless you are purchasing for own stay. If you do not get an ROI marginally higher than FD rates (2 to 3% higher), the risks you take and hassles involved is unjustifiable.


Why are you comparing puri ayu condominium prices 3 years back? It was RM250k 3 years back (as you said), but it is going for RM350k now (that's a whopping 40% appreciation). If you purchase it right now for DP 10%, the monthly installment is RM1540 (excluding maintenance) over 30 years at 4.2% interest rate. Market asking rental rate is RM1.4k-ish.

Let's do some maths here:

Based on your worst-case scenario assumption of no appreciation after 5 years and if you were to dispose the property right after 5 years (no RPGT tax, no appreciation anyway ). Using the mortgage calculator from here http://mortgage-x.com/calculators/amortization.htm (30 years loan and 4.2% interest rate) ,

Pmt # Date Loan Balance Interest Principal Total Interest
60 August 1, 2018 285,819.84 1,002.25 538.15 63,244.09

You would have paid RM63k to serve the interest alone. That would be your interest charges, excluding other fees. Loan balance is RM285k, which means you paid about RM30k principal.

The agent commission I am referring to is the 1 month rental commission to your agent (granted no change of tenant within the 5 years and full 5 years occupancy, "OMG, it's a perfect world out there!") and also the 2-3% paid as agent commission when you sell the property.

Now, back to your assumption of RM1.5k per month rental income for 60 months (5 years) which equals to RM90k (again, ideally).

After deducting interest, S&P (multiply by two, for purchasing and selling), stamp duty, loan agreement, renovation, maintenance, commissions (calculating based on RM350k), you'll be in negative territory or very close to it. Let's not forget what you could have done with the 10% DP (RM35k) you paid. You could have left it in FD for a steady 3.5% interest (RM35k becomes RM41k+ based on compounded interest) or invested it in stocks, unit trust, bonds, etc for higher yield.

Conclusion, if your property doesn't appreciate after 5 years, it's a very bad investment, even with full 5 years rental tenure.

P.S: if it still does not appreciate after 10, 15, 20 years, you'll be in deeper sh*t

This post has been edited by loongchai: Aug 17 2013, 01:36 AM