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 VW Australia finally recalls, ... followed by Audi

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SUSMatrix
post Jun 12 2013, 10:22 PM

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QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Jun 12 2013, 06:46 PM)
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-12/volk...-recall/4747694

This article even mentioned engine rebuild
Mr Makris says he has had the engine rebuilt and gearbox replaced on his Golf.

Case study: Ross Gulliver owns a 2006 Passat

"We had problems over a number of years with the car cutting out when stationary. [It ] wouldn't restart.

"My wife was driving it in most of the instances and it is frightening if you have kids on board.

"I had to drag them (Volkswagen) kicking and screaming to get my car fixed and it is a 2006, with a six-speed and DSG.

"I can't see that the problem is limited to 2008 and beyond."
"I know of some people who have had up to five engines replaced. It's out of control," he said.

"It started initially with a few people, then it blew out to 40 or 50 people, and now it's in the hundreds.

"I believe the cars are very dangerous. I think the DSG (direct shift gearbox), no matter how many times they replace it, it's not going to solve the problem.

"My car's shuddering again. I think it's only a matter of time before we have another tragic fatality on the road."
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I already mentioned numerous times before....Manual gears pretending to be Auto gear is a disaster...It doesn't work (realibily). AMT, DSG....all proven cases....
Ford, VW, Renault etc....
rcracer
post Jun 12 2013, 10:38 PM

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Man I love to hear those butt kissing fan boys here still saying they will buy vw no matter what
fr0sti3
post Jun 13 2013, 12:23 AM

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so many manufacturers using dual clutch gearbox also
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-clutch_transmission

bmw m3, evo x SST, sls amg, a45 amg, mp4-12c, ford powershift, ferrari 458,
nissan GTR, Porsche PDK, vw/audi dsg s-tronic
rcracer
post Jun 13 2013, 07:38 AM

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QUOTE(fr0sti3 @ Jun 13 2013, 12:23 AM)
so many manufacturers using dual clutch gearbox also
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-clutch_transmission

bmw m3, evo x SST, sls amg, a45 amg, mp4-12c, ford powershift, ferrari 458,
nissan GTR, Porsche PDK, vw/audi dsg s-tronic
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that works
alpha0201
post Jun 13 2013, 08:04 AM

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QUOTE
The spokesman said that the problems were due to the hot and wet climate, the extreme stop-and-go traffic as well as pollution typical of some Asian cities.


Reuters

I loled at this statement. Your dirty & disgusting country is not worthy of awesome DSG!
EnergyAnalyst
post Jun 13 2013, 09:49 AM

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QUOTE(alpha0201 @ Jun 13 2013, 08:04 AM)
Reuters

I loled at this statement. Your dirty & disgusting country is not worthy of awesome DSG!
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Just adding up numbers – all recent recalls due to a DSG-related problem

91,000 Japan,
384,181 China,
25,928 Australia ,
2,500 NZ ,
6,181 cars in Singapore (accounting for 35% of its car population in the island nation),
3,962 Malaysia,

Audi 6,000.


It is already about half a mil, Anymore?what was Taiwan's recall number, what was USA's?

lkhoe
post Jun 13 2013, 10:30 AM

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QUOTE(dares @ Jun 12 2013, 09:27 PM)
As a business, what do you expect them to say? "It's completely our fault, our car killed our customer, we shall immediately look into the matter.". It will open a floodgate of class action lawsuits they can't win (well they did go on record to say it is their fault) and hugely negative publicity. They cannot afford to claim full responsibility for those cases.

They didn't even admit "something is wrong". Instead of saying "send your car to the nearest dealership for our recall exercise because one of our customers got killed" They spun it as "As a responsible carmaker we are launching this recall exercise to give our customers a piece of mind."

Welcome to the world of PR.
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No need to explain so much bro.

Many manufacturers have recalls. Just that some are considered soft recalls, whereby only owners know about them or those "hard" recalls you see in the news. After all, it's up to them to decide whether to take responsibility, acknowledge issues from owners and formally announce a recall. Apa lagi you mau? tongue.gif

Initially I wanted to buy used bmw 5 series, alas got lemon problem. Then after, wanted ferrari 458, but alas, can catch fire by itself. So I go with toyota prius... alas got acceleration problem and floor mat issue.... BUT proton seems perfect coz no global recall wor...naive la some ppl... laugh.gif





zweimmk
post Jun 13 2013, 11:16 AM

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QUOTE(Matrix @ Jun 12 2013, 10:22 PM)
I already mentioned numerous times before....Manual gears pretending to be Auto gear is a disaster...It doesn't work (realibily). AMT, DSG....all proven cases....
Ford, VW, Renault etc....
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Put it this way. Technology has a curve that companies need to overcome. Toyota has invested heavily into hybrids, while VW has done other stuff. If nobody innovates, then basically it becomes a refinement and enhancement of existing technology and the Japanese have done just that with their cars. Not very interesting at all is it?

Every subsequent generation will improve upon the previous generation to give a better product. And it is always the bystanders that gains from the innovators mistakes and drawbacks, DSG gearbox is no exception to this rule.
dtna7
post Jun 13 2013, 12:16 PM

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QUOTE(weakmeal69 @ Jun 12 2013, 05:34 PM)
not just audi..most of conti car that's using DSG got recall.. VW, audi, skoda etc..

i dunno about Ford yet.. they experiencing problems too but till now no recall has been made
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QUOTE(zweimmk @ Jun 13 2013, 11:16 AM)
Put it this way. Technology has a curve that companies need to overcome. Toyota has invested heavily into hybrids, while VW has done other stuff. If nobody innovates, then basically it becomes a refinement and enhancement of existing technology and the Japanese have done just that with their cars. Not very interesting at all is it?

Every subsequent generation will improve upon the previous generation to give a better product. And it is always the bystanders that gains from the innovators mistakes and drawbacks, DSG gearbox is no exception to this rule.
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agree to this. Automotive Tech has to move on, its one of the slowest actually, compared to other techie industry. Oil has to be taken out from the equation sooner than later.

DSG is a great tech, just that its not ready, and the whole world knows about it now. blush.gif
sleepwalker
post Jun 13 2013, 12:46 PM

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QUOTE(kadajawi @ Jun 12 2013, 07:41 PM)
VW, Audi, Skoda all the same company, so they use the same gearboxes.

Renault has DSG now too, Ford has, Volvo has (same as Ford I believe), ...

Perhaps the issue with these DSG gearboxes of VW has been fixed, and owners are getting new parts that do not have the fault anymore?

@dtna7: Come on, having an accident like that is highly unlikely. The car doesn't accelerate anymore and she dies because of that?! (That is if that is the case. If the car suddenly slows down quite violently then it is very serious.) Normally I don't believe in luck, but... that's very bad luck. Most likely you'll just slow down and stop at the roadside, confused and angry but unhurt. The issue that some Toyotas had... stuck pedal, so the car would keep accelerating, was much more serious IMHO. Or think about the Ford Pinto in the 70s, which would explode when rear ended. Construction fault where a part of the bumper would be rammed into the fuel tank, creating sparks and... a bit of an explosion I suppose. Ford tried to cover up and thought it'd be cheaper to pay compensation than to issue a recall. Needless to say that did backfire.

I think the problem is that the DSG might not be fully matured, and perhaps a different driving style is necessary for it to be reliable. AFAIK not too long ago Mercedes had introduced a new engine, which was, or is very advanced. Sadly too advanced, so there was a major problem that led to mass death of these engines. Mercedes replaced them and tried to keep owners quiet.
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THink of this scenario, which is likely to happen to a DSG and not other gearboxes.. you are cruising on the highway at 110km/h on 5th gear with a truck following you. Most people would think that if you have a gearbox problem, you would cruised to a standstill in neutral. So people are wondering how she could have gotten hit. What if the DSG switched from 5th to 1st or 2nd gear (it's all electronically controlled and not locked in place by mechanical means). That would lock wheels when the engine over revs. It will not be a gradual slowing down. The reports of the accident stated sudden slow down and not a normal 'switch to neutral' and cruise type slow down. This could happen to any faulty DSG.
dares
post Jun 13 2013, 12:55 PM

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QUOTE(sleepwalker @ Jun 13 2013, 12:46 PM)
THink of this scenario, which is likely to happen to a DSG and not other gearboxes.. you are cruising on the highway at 110km/h on 5th gear with a truck following you. Most people would think that if you have a gearbox problem, you would cruised to a standstill in neutral. So people are wondering how she could have gotten hit. What if the DSG switched from 5th to 1st or 2nd gear (it's all electronically controlled and not locked in place by mechanical means). That would lock wheels when the engine over revs. It will not be a gradual slowing down. The reports of the accident stated sudden slow down and not a normal 'switch to neutral' and cruise type slow down. This could happen to any faulty DSG.
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I tot the girl in the Aussie incident was driving a manual blink.gif
kadajawi
post Jun 13 2013, 01:41 PM

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QUOTE(sleepwalker @ Jun 13 2013, 12:46 PM)
THink of this scenario, which is likely to happen to a DSG and not other gearboxes.. you are cruising on the highway at 110km/h on 5th gear with a truck following you. Most people would think that if you have a gearbox problem, you would cruised to a standstill in neutral. So people are wondering how she could have gotten hit. What if the DSG switched from 5th to 1st or 2nd gear (it's all electronically controlled and not locked in place by mechanical means). That would lock wheels when the engine over revs. It will not be a gradual slowing down. The reports of the accident stated sudden slow down and not a normal 'switch to neutral' and cruise type slow down. This could happen to any faulty DSG.
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But since a DSG is a manual gearbox with 2 clutches and a robot, how can it hammer in 1st or 2nd? I doubt that is so easy. Plus the lady was driving a manual car...
Intrigue
post Jun 13 2013, 01:55 PM

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QUOTE(sleepwalker @ Jun 13 2013, 12:46 PM)
THink of this scenario, which is likely to happen to a DSG and not other gearboxes.. you are cruising on the highway at 110km/h on 5th gear with a truck following you. Most people would think that if you have a gearbox problem, you would cruised to a standstill in neutral. So people are wondering how she could have gotten hit. What if the DSG switched from 5th to 1st or 2nd gear (it's all electronically controlled and not locked in place by mechanical means). That would lock wheels when the engine over revs. It will not be a gradual slowing down. The reports of the accident stated sudden slow down and not a normal 'switch to neutral' and cruise type slow down. This could happen to any faulty DSG.
*
Wouldn't the ECU prevents that from happening? Or i was wrong about the DSG concepts
sleepwalker
post Jun 13 2013, 02:29 PM

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QUOTE(dares @ Jun 13 2013, 12:55 PM)
I tot the girl in the Aussie incident was driving a manual  blink.gif
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Yeah, it's manual, just checked. I got it mixed up with the other DSG issues.
sleepwalker
post Jun 13 2013, 02:36 PM

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QUOTE(Intrigue @ Jun 13 2013, 01:55 PM)
Wouldn't the ECU prevents that from happening? Or i was wrong about the DSG concepts
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That's the whole issue that is causing the problem with DSG gearboxes. It's drive-by wire and when the ECU and electronics screw up, who is actually in control of the gearbox then? You or the microchip? There is no manual override like we see in movies installed in every electrical device. Ford owners have reported of their Fiesta DSGs refusing to go into neutral when the car was slowing to a stop.

The ECU is all that controls the gearbox in the DSG and unlike a manual gearbox where you have physical mechanical barriers. For example, in a normal 5 speed manual where the reverse is located below the 5th gear, the gearbox linkage is made such a way that you can't shift from 5th straight into reverse without first going to neutral to unlock the linkage.

So if a DSG decides to freak out, anything can happen. The worse thing is that there are no signs of imminent failure.
EnergyAnalyst
post Jun 13 2013, 02:48 PM

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So in the simplest term, is it the computer system failure? you know computer that hangs and needs reboot... despite all our advances in IT, it always happens

When I look at this vid, all i see can be the problem is the computer

feelfree
post Jun 13 2013, 03:01 PM

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According to VW, the DSG gearbox will only defect in certain country such as Asia because of the humid and hot weather plus heavy traffic, eg. traffic jam, hump, traffic lights, that's mean the DGS gearbox cannot withstand those start stop traffic condition. The problem now is what kind of method VW will use to repair the DSG problem? Will they just repair back the DSG and redesign the whole DSG gearbox?
SUSMatrix
post Jun 13 2013, 04:10 PM

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QUOTE(zweimmk @ Jun 13 2013, 11:16 AM)
Put it this way. Technology has a curve that companies need to overcome. Toyota has invested heavily into hybrids, while VW has done other stuff. If nobody innovates, then basically it becomes a refinement and enhancement of existing technology and the Japanese have done just that with their cars. Not very interesting at all is it?

Every subsequent generation will improve upon the previous generation to give a better product. And it is always the bystanders that gains from the innovators mistakes and drawbacks, DSG gearbox is no exception to this rule.
*
Agreed with innovations. ..but must weight risk and returns. Dsg is not new...started in 1980 . There are something which simply doesn't works and should be dumped. ...Malaysian buyers pay high prices for cars...almost 100k at least for these dsg cars...in the end, gets a lemon which can't sell, too expensive to fix,
or worst. ...can't fix at all going by the feedback of some owners.

I m not saying other gearbox tech has no failure rates,
It just that DSG failure is a question of when rather than "if".

theanswer
post Jun 13 2013, 04:21 PM

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QUOTE(chuakz @ Jun 12 2013, 05:44 PM)
u expect expensive cars to not have problems? in fact i think a lot of expensive cars have more problems than cheap cars
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true. more gadget..more electronics. that's why T&H is reliable..because less gadget means less problems.
alpha0201
post Jun 13 2013, 04:54 PM

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QUOTE(feelfree @ Jun 13 2013, 03:01 PM)
According to VW, the DSG gearbox will only defect in certain country such as Asia because of the humid and hot weather plus heavy traffic, eg. traffic jam, hump, traffic lights, that's mean the DGS gearbox cannot withstand those start stop traffic condition. The problem now is what kind of method VW will use to repair the DSG problem? Will they just repair back the DSG and redesign the whole DSG gearbox?
*
It went global yo. US previously kena, Europe also kena.

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