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> [WTA] Capital Asia Group, have any heard of this company?

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TSLawrenZza
post Jun 8 2013, 05:33 PM, updated 7y ago

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I recently came across this group called CAPITAL ASIA GROUP, anyone heard of it before?

Anyone heard of crud oil investment?

would like to know more about it before investing in them.

so if anyone have any or some kind of knowledge about it, please share.

would very much like to hear your point of view before making any wrong moves.

Very much appreciated.
MNet
post Jun 8 2013, 05:55 PM

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Candice Lee joined Capital Asia Group Malaysia in May 2011, in the newly created role of Sales Director. Candice is responsible to lead the CAGM Regional Office to build the reputation, leading the business strategy for the marketing and product strategy for brand. Candice brings high-level organizational and experience-based leadership to the company.
Candice's primary independent financial background has been grown from her three years experience in Prudential Assurance Singapore. Candice is an independent financial consultant in one of top IFA firm in Singapore. Tough, bold and passion has been motivated Candice departed Singapore to set up her consultant businesses in Malaysia and verified her endeavor by being selected as a speaker for the Malaysia Young Female Entrepreneurs (MYFEN) 2010 in Kuala Lumpur.
Highly enthusiastic in building her growth in company business, Candice has been featured in media in Malaysia such as Entrepreneurs Expose, New Straits Times, Berita Harian and SME Magazine. Candice's passion in building and growing business has been with her for long.
To Candice, in the world of entrepreneurship, you do not need a degree or master; you need a PHD - Pain, Hunger and Desire!
Axantas
post Jun 9 2013, 01:16 AM

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QUOTE(MNet @ Jun 8 2013, 05:55 PM)
Candice Lee joined Capital Asia Group Malaysia in May 2011, in the newly created role of Sales Director. Candice is responsible to lead the CAGM Regional Office to build the reputation, leading the business strategy for the marketing and product strategy for brand. Candice brings high-level organizational and experience-based leadership to the company.
Candice's primary independent financial background has been grown from her three years experience in Prudential Assurance Singapore. Candice is an independent financial consultant in one of top IFA firm in Singapore. Tough, bold and passion has been motivated Candice departed Singapore to set up her consultant businesses in Malaysia and verified her endeavor by being selected as a speaker for the Malaysia Young Female Entrepreneurs (MYFEN) 2010 in Kuala Lumpur.
Highly enthusiastic in building her growth in company business, Candice has been featured in media in Malaysia such as Entrepreneurs Expose, New Straits Times, Berita Harian and SME Magazine. Candice's passion in building and growing business has been with her for long.
To Candice, in the world of entrepreneurship, you do not need a degree or master; you need a PHD - Pain, Hunger and Desire!
*
I read your post for few times, yet, I can't find any word written by you that could provide me a direct or indirect answer to TS's initial post.

Who is Candice Lee?
Justmua
post Jun 9 2013, 09:29 AM

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Best way for you to learn more is to attend a session. One is coming up on coming Wed in Subang Jaya. Come with a list of questions and satisfy yourself before you part with your money.



QUOTE(LawrenZza @ Jun 8 2013, 05:33 PM)
I recently came across this group called CAPITAL ASIA GROUP, anyone heard of it before?

Anyone heard of crud oil investment?

would like to know more about it before investing in them.

so if anyone have any or some kind of knowledge about it, please share.

would very much like to hear your point of view before making any wrong moves.

Very much appreciated.
*
TSLawrenZza
post Jun 10 2013, 12:03 PM

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QUOTE(Justmua @ Jun 9 2013, 09:29 AM)
Best way for you to learn more is to attend a session. One is coming up on coming Wed in Subang Jaya. Come with a list of questions and satisfy yourself before you part with your money.
*
thanks for all the reply.

at this moment, everything is still very much unclear.

prefer to have more insight before attending the seminar.

Thanks
Justmua
post Jun 10 2013, 01:25 PM

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I've got more than 30MB of presentation files in my dropbox. If you are interested, PM me and I will point you to the link.


QUOTE(LawrenZza @ Jun 10 2013, 12:03 PM)
thanks for all the reply.

at this moment, everything is still very much unclear.

prefer to have more insight before attending the seminar.

Thanks
*
danokchonger
post Jun 10 2013, 04:30 PM

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QUOTE(LawrenZza @ Jun 10 2013, 12:03 AM)
thanks for all the reply.

at this moment, everything is still very much unclear.

prefer to have more insight before attending the seminar.

Thanks
*
It seems CAG is a fund raising entity of another fund raising entity, Proven Oil Asia. Other companies in S'pore also works with CAG/POA, Infinity Treasures, Shenton Energy Asia. In Europe, their partner is POC (Proven Oil Canada). All of them r fund raiser for a privately held oil company called Conserve Oil Corp (COC) based in Alberta - POC/POA r actually 100% subsidiary of COC. no idea how CAG/Infinity/Shenton strucutures with POA.

POC also has interesting history n controversies of its own. reported by german's businessweek

http://www.wiwo.de/finanzen/boerse/wiwo-bl...il/7924586.html
http://blog.wiwo.de/betriebssystem/2013/01...n-oil/#more-177

got into court cases with POC. interesting enough, an investor protection law firm has this to post as part of the their service

http://www.resch-rechtsanwaelte.de/C-1214-...Oil-Canada.aspx

derive ur own conclusion n investigate further.
nihellas
post Sep 4 2013, 04:44 PM

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QUOTE(Justmua @ Jun 10 2013, 01:25 PM)
I've got more than 30MB of presentation files in my dropbox. If you are interested, PM me and I will point you to the link.
*
can i have the link as well?
jack2
post Oct 7 2013, 01:25 PM

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Recently my friend met me and introduced this. I am wondering will this be another big scam project?
jack2
post Oct 7 2013, 01:30 PM

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QUOTE(Axantas @ Jun 9 2013, 01:16 AM)
I read your post for few times, yet, I can't find any word written by you that could provide me a direct or indirect answer to TS's initial post.

Who is Candice Lee?
*
She behaves this way, and most forumers know about her/him. You may ignore him/her.
Justmua
post Oct 8 2013, 09:01 AM

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Do you smell scam in this? Please elaborate...

QUOTE(jack2 @ Oct 7 2013, 01:25 PM)
Recently my friend met me and introduced this. I am wondering will this be another big scam project?
*
s32106
post Oct 8 2013, 09:40 AM

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My friend approached me as well... She said everything is black and white stated in the agreement in term of withdrawal of money after invest... I haven't invest yet so haven't got a chance to look at the agreement... Was wondering about this company earlier as well...
jack2
post Oct 8 2013, 05:49 PM

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QUOTE(Justmua @ Oct 8 2013, 09:01 AM)
Do you smell scam in this? Please elaborate...
*
everything was in proper, including agreements, data sheet etc... like well planned.

no body knows..
Justmua
post Oct 8 2013, 11:13 PM

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I'm confused. Everything in order and you feel it is a well-planned scam? And with some well-known third party names like Schlumberger, KPMG, etc...

Well, only time can tell...

QUOTE(jack2 @ Oct 8 2013, 05:49 PM)
everything was in proper, including agreements, data sheet etc... like well planned.

no body knows..
*
NightHeart
post Oct 8 2013, 11:47 PM

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Their Malaysian office is in Mont Kiara, their HQ is in Singapore.

The Oil Investment is their 2nd project. Their first project & still on-going is a housing development project in Hawaii; Aina Le'a.

CAG is basically just a marketing company, marketing & selling (of course) "alternative" investments vehicles. Basically their clients need funds, so they created a creative means to raise funds.

I can't tell whether scam or not, but I did my homework & you should too before making a decision.
jack2
post Oct 9 2013, 07:13 AM

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QUOTE(Justmua @ Oct 8 2013, 11:13 PM)
I'm confused. Everything in order and you feel it is a well-planned scam? And with some well-known third party names like Schlumberger, KPMG, etc...

Well, only time can tell...
*
From the ways you asked and responsed, you must be one of their representatives or agents or related to.
Justmua
post Oct 9 2013, 10:13 AM

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I'm a participant in the program.

Just sharing but Caveat emptor. Let the buyer be aware.

QUOTE(jack2 @ Oct 9 2013, 07:13 AM)
From the ways you asked and responsed, you must be one of their representatives or agents or related to.
*
kazy90
post Oct 11 2013, 05:39 PM

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I'm invested in it. Just got my return last 2 days. smile.gif
escargo75
post Oct 12 2013, 10:50 PM

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QUOTE(kazy90 @ Oct 11 2013, 06:39 PM)
I'm invested in it. Just got my return last 2 days. smile.gif
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Me too got my return of 3% per quarter. Silver Malaysia is selling this scheme for POA. You can find detail here. http://www.silvermalaysia.com/index.php/buy/crude-oil. Whether it is scam or not I am not sure but I putting small money to test it out. I think a lot of people worry it to be another Geneva!
escargo75
post Oct 12 2013, 10:58 PM

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QUOTE(danokchonger @ Jun 10 2013, 05:30 PM)
It seems CAG is a fund raising entity of another fund raising entity, Proven Oil Asia. Other companies in S'pore also works with CAG/POA, Infinity Treasures, Shenton Energy Asia. In Europe, their partner is POC (Proven Oil Canada). All of them r fund raiser for a privately held oil company called Conserve Oil Corp (COC) based in Alberta - POC/POA r actually 100% subsidiary of COC. no idea how CAG/Infinity/Shenton strucutures with POA.

POC also has interesting history n controversies of its own. reported by german's businessweek

http://www.wiwo.de/finanzen/boerse/wiwo-bl...il/7924586.html
http://blog.wiwo.de/betriebssystem/2013/01...n-oil/#more-177

got into court cases with POC. interesting enough, an investor protection law firm has this to post as part of the their service

http://www.resch-rechtsanwaelte.de/C-1214-...Oil-Canada.aspx

derive ur own conclusion n investigate further.
*
Dunno what is written there as it is in German. You can read German?

kazy90
post Oct 13 2013, 11:59 AM

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QUOTE(escargo75 @ Oct 12 2013, 10:50 PM)
Me too got my return of 3% per quarter. Silver Malaysia is selling this scheme for POA. You can find detail here. http://www.silvermalaysia.com/index.php/buy/crude-oil. Whether it is scam or not I am not sure but I putting small money to test it out. I think a lot of people worry it to be another Geneva!
*
yeah.. just diversify money away.. 12% per annum is cool thumbup.gif

I've done my study the business model is totally different with Genneva..

ps:lucky I didn't invested in Genneva icon_rolleyes.gif
escargo75
post Oct 13 2013, 05:06 PM

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QUOTE(kazy90 @ Oct 13 2013, 12:59 PM)
yeah.. just diversify money away.. 12% per annum is cool thumbup.gif

I've done my study the business model is totally different with Genneva..

ps:lucky I didn't invested in Genneva  icon_rolleyes.gif
*
A lot of my friend still skeptical and use the wait and see approach...

de_facto
post Oct 16 2013, 12:23 PM

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so much of glaring loose threads...

seriously, what homework u all do?

provided sites all foreign language, trustee unknown, etc... is the johnathan quek fella involved in this or wat?

no one askin right question like is this malaysian ministry approved, etc?

12% a year damm attractive... but wheres the assurance?!
kazy90
post Oct 18 2013, 10:50 AM

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QUOTE(de_facto @ Oct 16 2013, 12:23 PM)
so much of glaring loose threads...

seriously, what homework u all do?

provided sites all foreign language, trustee unknown, etc... is the johnathan quek fella involved in this or wat?

no one askin right question like is this malaysian ministry approved, etc?

12% a year damm attractive... but wheres the assurance?!
*
you should study the company in canada, conserve oil corporation. ask auditor and valuer report from them or any relevant documents.

sitting in front of computer and searching internet doesn't help.

this investment is not governed by malaysia because we are buying physical crude oil. FYI, sc and ssm only governs on paper assets such as bonds, equities, unit trust.

the assurance that convinced me was the collateral is pledged under trustee. what come to worse, at least my capital is always guaranteed. thumbup.gif
de_facto
post Oct 19 2013, 01:01 AM

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QUOTE(kazy90 @ Oct 18 2013, 10:50 AM)
you should study the company in canada, conserve oil corporation. ask auditor and valuer report from them or any relevant documents.

sitting in front of computer and searching internet doesn't help.

this investment is not governed by malaysia because we are buying physical crude oil. FYI,  sc and ssm only governs on paper assets such as bonds, equities, unit trust.

the assurance that convinced me was the collateral is pledged under trustee. what come to worse, at least my capital is always guaranteed.  thumbup.gif
*
at least my capital is always guaranteed. > omg. such a loaded statement. firstly, trustees just oversee the redistribution of funds - if its done at a loss, makes no matter to them as they have no obligations whatsoever. they oni obliged 2 step in event close shop, etc. collateral is based on valuation. still need willing buyer 2 actually buy it for said price. if got any incident which cause these event - logiclah it will also affect the price of the colateral.

secondly, the valuers themselves are who actually? if 2 firms perform audit/valuation = both will have differing findings & can/will try to base their findings on 'prevailing trends' to justify their valuation.

thirdly, who r the trustees ah? is it some well known big time bank... or just some unknown/new 'third party'... seriously, how to know they will be objective when makin decisions if it ever come 2 pass?... shell corporations are a dime a dozen... funnel $ in, then k, thx, bye... bernie maddoff collected(stole!) us 18 billion and ran his scheme for nearly 20 - 40 years before he was found out... same style as this investment 2 > promise big return, give big return for the initial period ($ come frm the new goldfish who 'invest') & he did it till he finally got caught. actually, if u refer the case, u can also see the point i made above about 'trustee vaulation'... us federal investigators say stolen amount amounted to usd 45 billion, but court appointed trustee say amount is usd 18 billion... thats a huge difference!!!... who lah can main agak agak wid usd 27 billion...

if dun sit front of computer & main main keyboard 2 cari info - then either nt makin an informed decision to invest or the lack of info means sumtin is wrong/deliberately being hidden/misleading. either way, choosing to invest in a company thats nt transparent about its info/project is very scary.

i dun wanna end up wakin 1 day 2 hear these guys ciow/close shop... even if can recover $, its gonna b a long affair.

& still so may q's unaswered - wat is johnathan quek's involvement in this if any? bernie madoff used 2 be the non exec chairman of nasdaq... and look wat hpnd 2 him!!!

i hope that by askin questions - it can help me confirm if i really wanna invest... 12% a year is syiok gila... so any1 gt anwers/counterpoints 2 my statements here, pls reply so 2gether we can make a wise decisions. tq.
de_facto
post Oct 19 2013, 01:06 AM

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fyi > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Madoff
escargo75
post Oct 19 2013, 11:19 PM

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QUOTE(de_facto @ Oct 19 2013, 02:01 AM)
at least my capital is always guaranteed. > omg. such a loaded statement. firstly, trustees just oversee the redistribution of funds - if its done at a loss, makes no matter to them as they have no obligations whatsoever. they oni obliged 2 step in event close shop, etc. collateral is based on valuation. still need willing buyer 2 actually buy it for said price. if got any incident which cause these event - logiclah it will also affect the price of the colateral.

secondly, the valuers themselves are who actually? if 2 firms perform audit/valuation = both will have differing findings & can/will try to base their findings on 'prevailing trends' to justify their valuation.

thirdly, who r the trustees ah? is it some well known big time bank... or just some unknown/new 'third party'... seriously, how to know they will be objective when makin decisions if it ever come 2 pass?... shell corporations are a dime a dozen... funnel $ in, then k, thx, bye... bernie maddoff collected(stole!) us 18 billion and ran his scheme for nearly 20 - 40 years before he was found out... same style as this investment 2 > promise big return, give big return for the initial period ($ come frm the new goldfish who 'invest') & he did it till he finally got caught. actually, if u refer the case, u can also see the point i made above about 'trustee vaulation'... us federal investigators say stolen amount amounted to usd 45 billion, but court appointed trustee say amount is usd 18 billion... thats a huge difference!!!... who lah can main agak agak wid usd 27 billion...         

if dun sit front of computer & main main keyboard 2 cari info - then either nt makin an informed decision to invest or the lack of info means sumtin is wrong/deliberately being hidden/misleading. either way, choosing to invest in a company thats nt transparent about its info/project is very scary.

i dun wanna end up wakin 1 day 2 hear these guys ciow/close shop... even if can recover $, its gonna b a long affair.

& still so may q's unaswered - wat is johnathan quek's involvement in this if any? bernie madoff used 2 be the non exec chairman of nasdaq... and look wat hpnd 2 him!!!

i hope  that by askin questions - it can help me confirm if i really wanna invest... 12% a year is syiok gila... so any1 gt anwers/counterpoints 2 my statements here, pls reply so 2gether we can make a wise decisions. tq.
*
What I know Jonathan Quek also invested in it. He is one of the client too. Again what I heard he invested quite heavily so he did a due diligence went to Canada to find out himself whether this is a scam or not? You get better info by attending their talk and can pose whatever question you want. If you worry too much don't invest few hundred thousand but just RM5,000 can start already. To me if it really turn up to be scam at least you minimize the risk of capital lost.
kazy90
post Oct 20 2013, 10:50 AM

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QUOTE(escargo75 @ Oct 19 2013, 11:19 PM)
What I know Jonathan Quek also invested in it. He is one of the client too. Again what I heard he invested quite heavily so he did a due diligence went to Canada to find out himself whether this is a scam or not? You get better info by attending their talk and can pose whatever question you want. If you worry too much don't invest few hundred thousand but just RM5,000 can start already. To me if it really turn up to be scam at least you minimize the risk of capital lost.
*
agreed to escargo75

you may attend their seminar ask whatever tricky questions u can at there
thumbup.gif
de_facto
post Oct 20 2013, 06:27 PM

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QUOTE(kazy90 @ Oct 20 2013, 10:50 AM)
agreed to escargo75

you may attend their seminar ask whatever tricky questions u can at there
thumbup.gif
*
leceh go 4 lecture... if company is serious... i feel must have good website

anyway, where is their ofis?
kazy90
post Oct 22 2013, 11:45 AM

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QUOTE(de_facto @ Oct 20 2013, 06:27 PM)
leceh go 4 lecture... if company is serious... i feel must have good website

anyway, where is their ofis?
*
In plaza mont kiara. You should go if you are serious to find out more.
iamfromhk
post Oct 28 2013, 01:28 AM

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just to share ok.. no intention to saboh other ppls biz. In Hong Kong, even for 2%-3% return per annum peoples will Q up day and night to invest in it. Reason is because HKD is tied up to USD so the interest rate from the bank is like 0%. Hk peoples loves to invest. But Hk investor is very smart peoples in Hk you can invest for everything. Its a very mature market for investor. For 12% per annum if they are looking for investor, why don't they do it here in HK? Just wonder. Maybe I can be their agent here in Hk IF everything is legal. I do know a lot of wealth peoples in Hong Kong.

John
heavenly91
post Nov 3 2013, 01:12 AM

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Go and pm jonathan quek
The lady is his gf anyways.
Find his profile in fb
de_facto
post Nov 26 2013, 05:44 PM

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so long no new posts... wat happened?

turn out 2 be scam rite?
coldspray
post Dec 4 2013, 11:19 AM

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QUOTE(de_facto @ Nov 26 2013, 05:44 PM)
so long no new posts... wat happened?

turn out 2 be scam rite?
*
bro, the company still operating. i just went there yesterday smile.gif
de_facto
post Dec 6 2013, 02:11 PM

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QUOTE(coldspray @ Dec 4 2013, 11:19 AM)
bro, the company still operating. i just went there yesterday  smile.gif
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how? can beleif ah their claims?

did theys show u real evidence? or oni got veri smooth conman talk?

share xperiens pls
Justmua
post Dec 6 2013, 04:40 PM

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Hi,

May I ask what "real evidence" you want to see?


QUOTE(de_facto @ Dec 6 2013, 02:11 PM)
how? can beleif ah their claims?

did theys show u real evidence? or oni got veri smooth conman talk?

share xperiens pls
*
de_facto
post Dec 7 2013, 10:05 PM

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QUOTE(Justmua @ Dec 6 2013, 04:40 PM)
Hi,

May I ask what "real evidence" you want to see?
*
website, press clipping, annual report, etc!!!

no blady decent info for this 'projek' online...

no figures, or audited data... can say summore, '"We do not invest on gut feelings but rely on hard facts."... THEN SHOW THE HARD FACTS LAH... mana audited earnings data for the previous 4 projek.. where is ur annual audit report...

if i laucnhin sumtin good.. sure i want world 2 know... even geneva had better marketin n promo than these fellas

does nobody else feel da fact they keep launchin new projek is a huge red flag warning ah???

feel like they launch projek 2 simply so can colect $ & pay 'dividen' to ppl who buy in projek 1... then launch projek 3 so can pay 'dividen' to ppl who buy in projek 2... THIS IS A CLASSIC PYRAMID SCHEME MODEL... DO U KNOW HOW DANGEROUS THIS IS?!

see example:

projek 1: collect 100%, pay dividend 12%, total baki for company is 88%
projek 2: collect another 100%, pay dividend 24% (12% for projek 1 + 12% for projek 2), total baki 176%
projek 3: collect another 100%, pay dividend 36% (12% each for projek 1,2 & 3), total baki 264%

if like this, this fellas can keep collectin $ wid launch of new 'projek' bcoz ppl will recomend them thinkkin they actuall makin money... but if scam, they can just close shop n run away weneva they want... if they do like this for 5 projeks or 5 years, they wudda made 88% * 5 years = 440% of collected investors money... until i c actual recognised auditors report bout their cash flow, annual earnings, etc... i find it damm suspicious...

CAGOM has a charge on POA's identified oil fields and will only market up to the worth of the charge, thus protecting your dollar for dollar. > wat does this even mean? insurance? reserve trust? auction?... if event of liquidation, still need willing buyer wat... if not state clearly in public record where the 'bailout' $ is comin from & provide the necessary docs 2 substantiate it!

i wan 2 hear frm ppl who bought this... how u base ur decision & wat proof got 2 back it up
cwhyoo
post Dec 11 2013, 04:30 PM

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I'm a newbie in this crude oil thing. Having invested in some land bankings and properties (still waiting for my fruits after 6 yrs), 12% per annum GUARANTEED returns seems a bit OTT.

Lets do some simple calculations: (#invest;#ROI)
1) RM100; ROI RM12/year or RM1/mth
2) RM100k; ROI RM12k/year or RM1k/mth
3) RM1mil; ROI RM120k/year or RM10k/mth

If I do not have cash, I loan from bank at max 8% per annum. I still get 4% per annum in returns without any money down. Good deal?

If it is GUARANTEED, why the company wants to seek public's money to invest? Is it because they could not get the loan from the bank because of the risk is too high?

Maybe I've missed out something, but it is a food for thought.

Also, I questioned about about the income tax on our ROI the sales director said no need declare at first. Then I asked what if my ROI is significant, example invest 2mil, and yearly I get RM240k. I got the answer, get a good accountant. Which is true... tongue.gif

But what bugs me is when the money channels into this investment company in Msia, it will surely channel into each and every investor's account. The crumps are there for IRB to hunt us down.

Therefore I need to learn more from the gurus here.

de_facto
post Dec 16 2013, 12:06 PM

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QUOTE(cwhyoo @ Dec 11 2013, 04:30 PM)
I'm a newbie in this crude oil thing. Having invested in some land bankings  and properties (still waiting for my fruits after 6 yrs), 12% per annum GUARANTEED returns seems a bit OTT.

Lets do some simple calculations: (#invest;#ROI)
1) RM100; ROI RM12/year or RM1/mth
2) RM100k; ROI RM12k/year or RM1k/mth
3) RM1mil; ROI RM120k/year or RM10k/mth

If I do not have cash, I loan from bank at max 8% per annum. I still get 4% per annum in returns without any money down. Good deal?

If it is GUARANTEED, why the company wants to seek public's money to invest? Is it because they could not get the loan from the bank because of the risk is too high?

Maybe I've missed out something, but it is a food for thought.

Also, I questioned about about the income tax on our ROI the sales director said no need declare at first. Then I asked what if my ROI is significant, example invest 2mil, and yearly I get RM240k. I got the answer, get a good accountant. Which is true... tongue.gif

But what bugs me is when the money channels into this investment company in Msia, it will surely channel into each and every investor's account. The crumps are there for IRB to hunt us down.

Therefore I need to learn more from the gurus here.
*
some dam good pints here. especially the 1 bout securin back loan and cag savin itself 4% roi a year... why dun do that?... who can answer... wud luf 2 hear

also, the point bout nt declarin rev for taxation & comment bout gettin good accountant = seriously wth?!!... i hear comment like tat it shows non professional org or conman scheme who cannot be bothered by such things as they long ciow b4 that... damm fishy

answers/commenst/feedback anyone?

ps: tq cwhyoo!
klthor
post Dec 16 2013, 02:16 PM

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high risk high gain, low risk low gain.
3% FD reward = PIDM protect which almost = risk free
8% Personal loan from back = risk of u cabut
12% return = 12% risk of cabuting
genting 50% gain = 50% lost (big small)
toto jackpot 40mil times gain = trillion risk of losing your RM1

guarantee risk free investment? i never believe in tat. but we can never stop some1 from buying toto even you know the winning chance is 0.00000000000000001 %

This post has been edited by klthor: Dec 16 2013, 02:18 PM
TiramisuCoffee
post Dec 16 2013, 04:00 PM

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QUOTE(klthor @ Dec 16 2013, 02:16 PM)
high risk high gain, low risk low gain.
3% FD reward = PIDM protect which almost = risk free
8% Personal loan from back = risk of u cabut
12% return = 12% risk of cabuting
genting 50% gain = 50% lost (big small)
toto jackpot 40mil times gain = trillion risk of losing your RM1

guarantee risk free investment? i never believe in tat. but we can never stop some1 from buying toto even you know the winning chance is 0.00000000000000001 %
*

FD protection is up to certain limit only. I'm referring to big sum. If there's bank run, good luck 2 u! doh.gif

If want windfall but cannot afford, this is what we can do. Save Rm1- on a daily basis into a piggy bank. Anytime u feel like it, crash it open - viola! Windfall! rclxm9.gif This method chance is 100%, I tell you!

klthor
post Dec 16 2013, 05:13 PM

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QUOTE(TiramisuCoffee @ Dec 16 2013, 04:00 PM)
FD protection is up to certain limit only. I'm referring to big sum. If there's bank run, good luck 2 u!  doh.gif

If want windfall but cannot afford, this is what we can do. Save Rm1- on a daily basis into a piggy bank. Anytime u feel like it, crash it open - viola! Windfall!  rclxm9.gif This method chance is 100%, I tell you!
*
pidm i think 200k?

i dun like the concept of foreign investment, becoz we do not know their laws and regulation. and their news will reach us very slow, i mean those public info. proxy/trustee, like other former said, who are them? well known ppl like obama, osama(oops hes dead) as ur trustee or just the guy next door? 12% guarantee return? in USD ar? or in RM? why they can guarantee? are you sure they can guarantee if sudd RM rise like rocket and trade 1usd to rm2? are they still able to maintain 12% return?

as i said earlier, we cant stop ppl from investing but i aint going to put my hands in these. i rather go to toto, spend RM1 and dream i can hit jackpot and become 20mil richer.
Black Red
post Dec 26 2013, 02:31 PM

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is this kind of investment legit? got some relatives wanna borrow me some money, can get 3% monthly. I've been searching in Google but cannot get a clear view of this.
escargo75
post Dec 26 2013, 03:45 PM

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Here you can find some read up on the crude oil investment... http://www.silvermalaysia.com/index.php/buy/crude-oil

Let's continue to debate rclxms.gif
escargo75
post Dec 26 2013, 04:08 PM

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QUOTE(escargo75 @ Dec 26 2013, 04:45 PM)
Here you can find some read up on the crude oil investment... http://www.silvermalaysia.com/index.php/buy/crude-oil

Let's continue to debate  rclxms.gif
*
More info on COC and POC....

http://www.conserveoilcorporation.com/home.html

http://www.proven-oil-canada.de/start.html
escargo75
post Dec 26 2013, 04:24 PM

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QUOTE(Black Red @ Dec 26 2013, 03:31 PM)
is this kind of investment legit? got some relatives wanna borrow me some money, can get 3% monthly. I've been searching in Google but cannot get a clear view of this.
*
More read up here...

http://cbbworldwide.com/how-to-earn-12-p-a...ital-protection


escargo75
post Dec 26 2013, 04:28 PM

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QUOTE(iamfromhk @ Oct 28 2013, 02:28 AM)
just to share ok.. no intention to saboh other ppls biz. In Hong Kong, even for 2%-3% return per annum peoples will Q up day and night to invest in it. Reason is because HKD is tied up to USD so the interest rate from the bank is like 0%. Hk peoples loves to invest. But Hk investor is very smart peoples in Hk you can invest for everything. Its a very mature market for investor. For 12% per annum if they are looking for investor, why don't they do it here in HK? Just wonder. Maybe I can be their agent here in Hk IF everything is legal. I do know a lot of wealth peoples in Hong Kong.

John
*
Just to answer your question about Hong Kie investment, already got consultancy company at Macau/HK luring Macau/HK investors so you are too late rclxms.gif

http://www.ltcc.biz/en/services/immediate-...flow-investment

escargo75
post Dec 26 2013, 04:35 PM

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QUOTE(TiramisuCoffee @ Dec 16 2013, 05:00 PM)
FD protection is up to certain limit only. I'm referring to big sum. If there's bank run, good luck 2 u!  doh.gif

If want windfall but cannot afford, this is what we can do. Save Rm1- on a daily basis into a piggy bank. Anytime u feel like it, crash it open - viola! Windfall!  rclxm9.gif This method chance is 100%, I tell you!
*
If this Crude Oil is a scam I feel ok because this will be the biggest scam that will involve many peoples around the world and not limit to Malaysia only. Yeah, I think I am kind of stupid to think that way. Is like got so many peoples dies together with me is OK lah.... icon_rolleyes.gif Check out the Capital Asia scam that involve so many countries...

http://www.capitalasiagroup.com/main.php



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post Dec 26 2013, 04:51 PM

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QUOTE(escargo75 @ Dec 26 2013, 04:24 PM)
thanks for the link bro! notworthy.gif
Black Red
post Dec 26 2013, 04:53 PM

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QUOTE(escargo75 @ Dec 26 2013, 04:28 PM)
Just to answer your question about Hong Kie investment, already got consultancy company at Macau/HK luring Macau/HK investors so you are too late  rclxms.gif

http://www.ltcc.biz/en/services/immediate-...flow-investment
*
hongkies got many rich people, usually they will do CIES.
escargo75
post Dec 26 2013, 04:55 PM

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QUOTE(Black Red @ Dec 26 2013, 05:53 PM)
hongkies got many rich people, usually they will do CIES.
*
What is CIES?

escargo75
post Dec 26 2013, 05:01 PM

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QUOTE(klthor @ Dec 16 2013, 06:13 PM)
pidm i think 200k?

i dun like the concept of foreign investment, becoz we do not know their laws and regulation. and their news will reach us very slow, i mean those public info. proxy/trustee, like other former said, who are them? well known ppl like obama, osama(oops hes dead) as ur trustee or just the guy next door? 12% guarantee return? in USD ar? or in RM? why they can guarantee? are you sure they can guarantee if sudd RM rise like rocket and trade 1usd to rm2? are they still able to maintain 12% return?

as i said earlier, we cant stop ppl from investing but i aint going to put my hands in these. i rather go to toto, spend RM1 and dream i can hit jackpot and become 20mil richer.
*
You can keep on buying your Toto because it will never hit!! Come to think about it why i still buy it also hoping to hit the $21 mill SUPREME haha rclxms.gif

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post Dec 26 2013, 05:01 PM

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QUOTE(escargo75 @ Dec 26 2013, 04:55 PM)
What is CIES?
*
ops, my bad, this is for non-hongkies to invest in HK, sorry. tongue.gif


The Capital Investment Entrant Scheme (“CIES”)

In 2003 The Capital Investment Entrant Scheme (CIES) was launched by the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (SAR) Government. This scheme aims to facilitate the entry for residence through capital investment into permissible assets without the need to establish or join in a business.
klthor
post Dec 26 2013, 05:24 PM

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QUOTE(escargo75 @ Dec 26 2013, 05:01 PM)
You can keep on buying your Toto because it will never hit!! Come to think about it why i still buy it also hoping to hit the $21 mill SUPREME haha  rclxms.gif
*
yep i also keep buy and dream. treat these types of investment as toto jackpot, dun put in ur life saving into it.
Showtime747
post Dec 26 2013, 08:44 PM

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Based on the info provided in the website, I can't find any fault in the arrangement. Looks like it is a very thoroughly thought of financial plan to attract investors. However, that leads me to ask the question. At 12% pa, why would the company failed to get financing from financial institution ? If you consider they have to appoint agents to market for them, their borrowing cost could go up to 15% (?). It would be much simpler to get financing from 1 bank/consortium of banks instead of managing thousands of investors. The only logical answer I can think of (and ASSUMING it is a legitimate investment) is it is a very high risk business. Even at 15%, banks refuse to get involve

BTW, anybody knows how much the agent earn from recruiting ?
escargo75
post Dec 26 2013, 10:45 PM

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QUOTE(Showtime747 @ Dec 26 2013, 09:44 PM)
Based on the info provided in the website, I can't find any fault in the arrangement. Looks like it is a very thoroughly thought of financial plan to attract investors. However, that leads me to ask the question. At 12% pa, why would the company failed to get financing from financial institution ? If you consider they have to appoint agents to market for them, their borrowing cost could go up to 15% (?). It would be much simpler to get financing from 1 bank/consortium of banks instead of managing thousands of investors. The only logical answer I can think of (and ASSUMING it is a legitimate investment) is it is a very high risk business. Even at 15%, banks refuse to get involve

BTW, anybody knows how much the agent earn from recruiting ?
*
To answer your question why not get loan from bank? You know bank loan will take time to approve and also disburse money slowly and not at one shot. It is just like any company who want to get capital for their business they can either get bank loan or attract investor aka share holder. So you buy the company share and give them your money without the bank red tapes.

Why so many companies get funding from share holder instead of get it from bank? It is fast right? So since COC is not a public listed companies (you can read all the websites) so they cannot issue shares for the general public but use other methods to get funding if they don't go to bank, make sense?

By the way, how do you know bank lending rate at Canada is not more than 12%? I don't know but I think you can find out yourself.


escargo75
post Dec 26 2013, 10:48 PM

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QUOTE(klthor @ Dec 26 2013, 06:24 PM)
yep i also keep buy and dream. treat these types of investment as toto jackpot, dun put in ur life saving into it.
*
You call buying Toto Jackpot as investment? My God.... doh.gif
Showtime747
post Dec 26 2013, 11:38 PM

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QUOTE(escargo75 @ Dec 26 2013, 10:45 PM)
To answer your question why not get loan from bank? You know bank loan will take time to approve and also disburse money slowly and not at one shot. It is just like any company who want to get capital for their business they can either get bank loan or attract investor aka share holder. So you buy the company share and give them your money without the bank red tapes.

Why so many companies get funding from share holder instead of get it from bank? It is fast right? So since COC is not a public listed companies (you can read all the websites) so they cannot issue shares for the general public but use other methods to get funding if they don't go to bank, make sense?

By the way, how do you know bank lending rate at Canada is not more than 12%? I don't know but I think you can find out yourself.
*
Yes bank takes time. But this scheme has been >1 year since the launch. And they are still recruiting. Even Malaysian banks does not take >1 year to process loan. You really think Canadian banks are that inefficient ? tongue.gif

What is Canadian bank interest rates ? I put the link of BOC overnight rates below. The benchmark rate remains at 1% since 2010. Hope you know how to estimate the rate for business loan from there

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bank-of-ca...-at-1-1.2450462


klthor
post Dec 27 2013, 12:29 AM

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QUOTE(escargo75 @ Dec 26 2013, 10:48 PM)
You call buying Toto Jackpot as investment? My God....  doh.gif
*
what I mean is I treat this type of investment (capital asia) like buying toto jackpot, that is gamble.
klthor
post Dec 27 2013, 12:38 AM

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QUOTE(escargo75 @ Dec 26 2013, 10:45 PM)
To answer your question why not get loan from bank? You know bank loan will take time to approve and also disburse money slowly and not at one shot. It is just like any company who want to get capital for their business they can either get bank loan or attract investor aka share holder. So you buy the company share and give them your money without the bank red tapes.

Why so many companies get funding from share holder instead of get it from bank? It is fast right? So since COC is not a public listed companies (you can read all the websites) so they cannot issue shares for the general public but use other methods to get funding if they don't go to bank, make sense?

By the way, how do you know bank lending rate at Canada is not more than 12%? I don't know but I think you can find out yourself.
*
basic finance

1st equity return is always higher than bank borrowings interest rate. so theres no chance bank lending is over 12%.
2nd funding from shareholder takes even more time than getting loan approval from banks.

with FOREX risk on the boat and still able to guarantee 12% return pa, seems fishy to me.

This post has been edited by klthor: Dec 27 2013, 12:44 AM
escargo75
post Dec 27 2013, 09:36 AM

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QUOTE(klthor @ Dec 27 2013, 01:38 AM)
basic finance

1st equity return is always higher than bank borrowings interest rate. so theres no chance bank lending is over 12%.
2nd funding from shareholder takes even more time than getting loan approval from banks.

with FOREX risk on the boat and still able to guarantee 12% return pa, seems fishy to me.
*
It is really up to you whether you want to think that way or not but I will not spend my time convincing you to invest in it. If you think it is a scam then it is a scam. To me it is not, that's it.

You can do your due diligence and at the end of the day it is you who pay for it so you can have your opinion that's fair.
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post Dec 27 2013, 09:48 AM

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QUOTE(Showtime747 @ Dec 27 2013, 12:38 AM)
Yes bank takes time. But this scheme has been >1 year since the launch. And they are still recruiting. Even Malaysian banks does not take >1 year to process loan. You really think Canadian banks are that inefficient  ? tongue.gif

What is Canadian bank interest rates ? I put the link of BOC overnight rates below. The benchmark rate remains at 1% since 2010. Hope you know how to estimate the rate for business loan from there

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bank-of-ca...-at-1-1.2450462
*
If you read the link that I provided, you can find the answer there. For the benefits of all, I will tell you why. The scheme is more than 1 year because there is more than 1 project or oil rigs. It will continue to go on as long as there is new oil rigs.

The mis-conception of the promised ROI is that it is base on lock down period of two years. After the expiry of two years the rate of return might change. I am not financial expert like you all but simple layman and every opportunity do come with risk. If we are looking for almost zero risk investment you can invest in FD.

If you feel that this is risky just put small portion of your wealth in it and see how it goes. People also say investing in gold is highly rewardable but if you bought the gold at the $1,800 per ounce, you must be cursing. In investment it is all about timing, risk ratio and off-course gut feeling. If your gut feeling is not good, I would not waster my time even to consider it. One good example is Forex trading because to me i think you cannot beat the big shark unless you are extremely good....
Showtime747
post Dec 27 2013, 11:07 AM

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QUOTE(escargo75 @ Dec 27 2013, 09:48 AM)
If you read the link that I provided, you can find the answer there. For the benefits of all, I will tell you why. The scheme is more than 1 year because there is more than 1 project or oil rigs. It will continue to go on as long as there is new oil rigs.

*
I have read the link many times but it does not explain why they resort to capital market instead of leveraging. There are many other projects/business that last >1 year and FYI there are also many debt instruments that cater to the needs of various types of project/business of different time line. There must be some reasons/constraints/purpose they are willing to pay 12%-15% instead of getting cheaper funding via leveraging. We are talking about extra ~10% pa here. If they borrow US$100m, then that is extra US$10m cost per year

Ask yourself. If you have a viable business which needs funding. Will you go to the 1 bank that charge you 5% or will you go to find thousands of investors who you need to pay them 12%-15% ?

Anyway, good luck in your investment

This post has been edited by Showtime747: Dec 27 2013, 11:08 AM
escargo75
post Dec 27 2013, 11:45 AM

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QUOTE(Showtime747 @ Dec 27 2013, 12:07 PM)
I have read the link many times but it does not explain why they resort to capital market instead of leveraging. There are many other projects/business that last >1 year and FYI there are also many debt instruments that cater to the needs of various types of project/business of different time line. There must be some reasons/constraints/purpose they are willing to pay 12%-15% instead of getting cheaper funding via leveraging. We are talking about extra ~10% pa here. If they borrow US$100m, then that is extra US$10m cost per year

Ask yourself. If you have a viable business which needs funding. Will you go to the 1 bank that charge you 5% or will you go to find thousands of investors who you need to pay them 12%-15% ?

Anyway, good luck in your investment
*
I think what you are talking about is conventional investment or asset class. This is alternative investment class. I have to agree with you that it does not make sense (base on conventional thinking) that why not borrow from bank. You can find out the answer from the company who sell this scheme or you can just ignore it thinking that it is another Geneva. Well nobody will know until things happen.

There are a lot of alternative investment around lately and have you heard of bird nest scheme? This scheme is approved by the government but again a lot of skeptic who doubt the return and the picking up rate is not as fast as I would thought.

Most human are skeptics and will go for the safe investment like FD, unit trust, bonds, etc but slowly for sure I think this scenario will change.

I remember Conrad once said that unit trust investment is rubbish as you paid a lot of fees and the best class of investment is still buying stocks - well everyone know why he said that. In every business there are tricks involved so they will not tell you everything - so the reasons they are not telling is either it is scam or it is trade secret. It depends how you see it and those who succeeded deemed as innovator and those who failed a fool.

I remember reading Uncle Lim's biography about his vision dream of building a casino on a hill. i think most people doubt it can be done and plenty said that it will fail but viola!!

Sorry gone out of topic but it is good that someone has open some questions that if I have opportunity will ask next time but not sure they will answer. Is like my friends many time asked me you want to jump or not and no time to tell you why just do it!! rclxm9.gif
Showtime747
post Dec 27 2013, 04:01 PM

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QUOTE(escargo75 @ Dec 27 2013, 11:45 AM)
I think what you are talking about is conventional investment or asset class. This is alternative investment class. I have to agree with you that it does not make sense (base on conventional thinking) that why not borrow from bank. You can find out the answer from the company who sell this scheme or you can just ignore it thinking that it is another Geneva. Well nobody will know until things happen.


*
There is no such thing as conventional or unconventional investment. Whatever fancy name the promoter may call the investment, be it alternative investment, new era investment, hybrid investment etc, eventually it is all about dollar and cent. Changing a name does not alter the objective of any business, which is "making profits". If the business is capable of borrowing at 5.0%, they won't borrow at 5.1%

It is all about level of risk. As said, if the banks don't want to take up the risk, there are many others like you who are willing to. There are always people who are willing to tolerate more risk than a bank. The business just need to raise the returns high enough to lure investors in. In this case, it is 12%
escargo75
post Dec 27 2013, 04:11 PM

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QUOTE(Showtime747 @ Dec 27 2013, 05:01 PM)
There is no such thing as conventional or unconventional investment. Whatever fancy name the promoter may call the investment, be it alternative investment, new era investment, hybrid investment etc, eventually it is all about dollar and cent. Changing a name does not alter the objective of any business, which is "making profits". If the business is capable of borrowing at 5.0%, they won't borrow at 5.1%

It is all about level of risk. As said, if the banks don't want to take up the risk, there are many others like you who are willing to. There are always people who are willing to tolerate more risk than a bank. The business just need to raise the returns high enough to lure investors in. In this case, it is 12%
*
I have to agree with you on this. If the bank cannot tolerate the risk does not mean that it is a scam. There might be other reasons that you and me do not know. It is just like one bank willing to offer loan to a borrower vs another bank who is not willing, so can you say that the borrower is fishy and the bank that do not offer the loan make a wise decision?

It is all about your evaluation and your risk appetite and there is no right or wrong just whether at the end of the day who make the money. It is not about how right or wrong are you but how much you can take risk to achieve something bigger.

Showtime747
post Dec 27 2013, 05:15 PM

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QUOTE(escargo75 @ Dec 27 2013, 04:11 PM)

It is just like one bank willing to offer loan to a borrower vs another bank who is not willing, so can you say that the borrower is fishy and the bank that do not offer the loan make a wise decision?


*
Yes, if 1 bank refuse, but the other bank willing to offer loan to a borrower, then I don't think the borrower is fishy.

But if all banks also not willing to offer loans to a borrower, and the borrower has to find investors and pay them 12%, will you say the borrower is fishy now ? tongue.gif


de_facto
post Dec 28 2013, 09:53 PM

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QUOTE(Showtime747 @ Dec 27 2013, 05:15 PM)
Yes, if 1 bank refuse, but the other bank willing to offer loan to a borrower, then I don't think the borrower is fishy.

But if all banks also not willing to offer loans to a borrower, and the borrower has to find investors and pay them 12%, will you say the borrower is fishy now ?  tongue.gif
*
yes, veri fishy.

moni is moni - if got viable biz plan sure bank will do risk anaylsis n then decide base on it.

so if bank decline - def got reason.

anyway, we all talkin as if c.a.g when 2 bank & apply 4 loan & got rejekted... mayb/prob got do nuthin like that in the first place as it is a scam & r waitin 4 ppl 2 'invest' b4 ciow... who know?

each time got good qustion ask ere - get sum 'dunno, dun care, dun wanna disclose, secret secret' answer here... how da hell wan 2 invest if atutude like that... mana transparensi?... wan 2 take my money, but dun wanna answer my kwestion ah?


cybermaster98
post Jan 15 2014, 03:44 PM

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Can anybody provide any details about this?
de_facto
post Jan 20 2014, 11:58 AM

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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Jan 15 2014, 03:44 PM)
Can anybody provide any details about this?
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they hv a seminar which intrested ppl boleh attend...
Kaji2g
post Jan 24 2014, 12:18 AM

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It is very simple why some companies, choose to use private investors to fund their projects instead of banks.

Most of the time, there are 3 ways, in which the company can raise capital.

1) Debt financing (bonds, loans from bank etc)
2) Equity financing (stocks)
3) Private Investments

Borrowing from banks belongs to the first category which is debt financing. You must first understand that in order for banks to loan you the money, the waiting period is usually up to 6 months. Furthermore, even if you have Fixed Assets (such as land) to offer to the company as collaterals, usually the LTV ( Loan to value) for such investments is not as high. Usually around 40%. Which means even if you have a collateral which is valued at 10 million, banks would only loan 4 million to you. The bank interest rates for such investments, is also slightly higher at 5-7%.

Given these circumstances, it is easy to see why some companies turn to private investors such as this for capital. 1) The time period for approval in which they can actually get the funds or capital is significantly faster than the bank. Secondly they are able to offer their collateral to investors for value to value, which means that if that if the collateral is valued at 10 million, they can raise up to the amount. '

Thus, even if they have to pay a higher rate of returns back to the investor, they can get the money to invest faster, and in higher amounts, than compared to what they can get from the banks


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post Jan 24 2014, 08:07 AM

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QUOTE(Kaji2g @ Jan 24 2014, 12:18 AM)

Borrowing from banks belongs to the first category which is debt financing. You must first understand that in order for banks to loan you the money, the waiting period is usually up to 6 months. Furthermore, even if you have Fixed Assets (such as land) to offer to the company as collaterals, usually the LTV ( Loan to value) for such investments is not as high. Usually around 40%. Which means even if you have a collateral which is valued at 10 million, banks would only loan 4 million to you. The bank interest rates for such investments, is also slightly higher at 5-7%.
Obviously you have no experience with big corporate loans. If all information is available for bank's consideration, 3 months duration is possible. And what collateral you want for US$100m corporate loans ? Banks look at the viability of the business, more than collateral. If your business is viable, even if there is no collateral, the bank will provide loans. If you business is not viable, even if you have 100% collateral, banks will ask you to fly kite.

BTW, LTV is a term for consumer property loan. For corporate loans, we dont use such term

QUOTE(Kaji2g @ Jan 24 2014, 12:18 AM)
Given these circumstances, it is easy to see why some companies turn to private investors such as this for capital. 1) The time period for approval in which they can actually get the funds or capital is significantly faster than the bank. Secondly they are able to offer their collateral to investors for value to value, which means that if that if the collateral is valued at 10 million, they can raise up to the amount. '

Thus, even if they have to pay a higher rate of returns back to the investor, they can get the money to invest faster, and in higher amounts, than compared to what they can get from the banks
*
1. Look at the time needed for CAG needed to raise financing. Until today they are still taking money from "investors". How many YEARS has it been raising capital ? As compare to bank's MONTHS ? tongue.gif

2. What collateral did CAG offer to investors ? None doh.gif That could be the reason why bank REFUSED to loan because the risk is too high even for 12% the company willing to pay. Bear in mind banks' other loan is offered only at around 5%



The bottom line is CAG's business is so risky that it failed to get loans from banks, have to pay >12% interest to lure in "investors", and has to take ages to raise financing (what a pity until today they still need to do "marketing" on the forum)
de_facto
post Jan 24 2014, 09:31 AM

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QUOTE(Showtime747 @ Jan 24 2014, 08:07 AM)
Obviously you have no experience with big corporate loans. If all information is available for bank's consideration, 3 months duration is possible. And what collateral you want for US$100m corporate loans ? Banks look at the viability of the business, more than collateral. If your business is viable, even if there is no collateral, the bank will provide loans. If you business is not viable, even if you have 100% collateral, banks will ask you to fly kite.

BTW, LTV is a term for consumer property loan. For corporate loans, we dont use such term 
1. Look at the time needed for CAG needed to raise financing. Until today they are still taking money from "investors". How many YEARS has it been raising capital ? As compare to bank's MONTHS ?  tongue.gif

2. What collateral did CAG offer to investors ? None  doh.gif  That could be the reason why bank REFUSED to loan because the risk is too high even for 12% the company willing to pay. Bear in mind banks' other loan is offered only at around 5% 
The bottom line is CAG's business is so risky that it failed to get loans from banks, have to pay >12% interest to lure in "investors", and has to take ages to raise financing (what a pity until today they still need to do "marketing" on the forum)
*
great reply.

manyak informative.

so how... any more cag rep here wanna dare answer back?

open forum... let ppl know. nuthin 2 b afraid if good product mah
Kaji2g
post Jan 26 2014, 12:21 AM

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QUOTE(Showtime747 @ Jan 24 2014, 08:07 AM)
Obviously you have no experience with big corporate loans. If all information is available for bank's consideration, 3 months duration is possible. And what collateral you want for US$100m corporate loans ? Banks look at the viability of the business, more than collateral. If your business is viable, even if there is no collateral, the bank will provide loans. If you business is not viable, even if you have 100% collateral, banks will ask you to fly kite.

BTW, LTV is a term for consumer property loan. For corporate loans, we dont use such term 
1. Look at the time needed for CAG needed to raise financing. Until today they are still taking money from "investors". How many YEARS has it been raising capital ? As compare to bank's MONTHS ?  tongue.gif

2. What collateral did CAG offer to investors ? None  doh.gif  That could be the reason why bank REFUSED to loan because the risk is too high even for 12% the company willing to pay. Bear in mind banks' other loan is offered only at around 5% 
The bottom line is CAG's business is so risky that it failed to get loans from banks, have to pay >12% interest to lure in "investors", and has to take ages to raise financing (what a pity until today they still need to do "marketing" on the forum)
*
1) Okay... First of all, I am sure you do not have experience with corporate loans. Irregardless of whatever business model they are using or how viable it is, banks will ONLY loan you a puny amount of money. Furthermore, banks DO NOT look at future potential when they decide a loan. They will only consider factors, such as current earnings, liabilities, fixed assets etc, and in return you get a puny amount of loan, with high interest rates. Therefore, CAG or the company they are representing , COC, will never be able to raise as much as they can from the private investors. The company they are representing, which is COC, is not a huge multibillion company, it is just a SME producing oil, therefore, it is impossible to get anywhere near what you mentioned in your post. Simply raising funds through private investors, allow them to raise a significantly larger amount, and allows them to expand their business.

2) COC, actually pledged a separate producing oil field as a collateral to CAG. Furthermore they are only allowed to raise the amount of funds to the value of the oil field itself. Lets say the oil field is valued at 10 million, they are only allowed to raise up to 10 million, in which the project will be considered closed, and a new one will begin. Thus in the event of a default the trustee company holding the land, will come in auction off the piece of land, and the investors will have first charge to it. Thus in a way your capital is somewhat secured.

Kaji2g
post Jan 26 2014, 12:47 AM

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i can explain why genneva failed tho. Although it is not really a scam.

Basically, a short summary is this. You invest money to buy physical gold, and they give you a 3% rate of return per month. At the end of your term of contract, you have 3 options. Either you 1)Keep the gold 2) sell the gold back to genneva 3) reinvest your money

Basically, the idea is that they are speculating on gold prices to remain or keep going up, and people reinvesting their money. Basically if gold prices remain the same or keep rising, everything is good and all, and there is no problem at all.

However, if gold prices drop, investors will lose their money. This is because genneva could no longer afford the payout they agreed on. But wait, you have the gold you buy as a collateral in the event of a default! However, this is far away from the truth, as their is a clause in the contract that says that genneva has no obligations to buy back the gold, thus the investor is forced to either keep the gold, or sell the gold in the primary market at a much lower price. Thus either way, they lose their money.
Showtime747
post Jan 26 2014, 05:50 AM

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QUOTE(Kaji2g @ Jan 26 2014, 12:21 AM)
1) Okay... First of all, I am sure you do not have experience with corporate loans. Irregardless of whatever business model they are using or how viable it is, banks will ONLY loan you a puny amount of money. Furthermore, banks DO NOT look at future potential when they decide a loan. They will only consider factors, such as current earnings, liabilities, fixed assets etc, and in return you get a puny amount of loan, with high interest rates. Therefore, CAG or the company they are representing , COC, will never be able to raise as much as they can from the private investors. The company they are representing, which is COC, is not a huge multibillion company, it is just a SME producing oil, therefore, it is impossible to get anywhere near what you mentioned in your post. Simply raising funds through private investors, allow them to raise a significantly larger amount, and allows them to expand their business.


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tongue.gif I was in corporate banking line for many years and my job was to arrange corporate loans for companies. I even arrange syndicated loans (if you have heard of it before) involving many banks (yes, banks do spread their risk among themselves too) to the tunes of hundreds of millions. I guess that is "a puny amount" to you thumbup.gif

Banks don't look at the future potential ? It just showed that you have only encountered consumer property loans and credit cards. You are right for consumer banking though. But in corporate loans, future earnings are the primary concern. Banks assess the risk of a business by looking at how viable the business is. In business, past experience, although important as a gauge, does not guarantee that the business will be as profitable in the future. It is therefore important for the bank to assess the future earnings because it is where the borrowers get the money to pay interest to the banks

As opposed to consumer loans like property and credit cards, your current salary is the most important gauge of your future earning potential. If you have a job now that pays a salary of $5k, that means it is most likely you can earn the equivalent or more in the future. Even if you lose your job now, you can most probably find another job from other companies. But in business, if it fails, the income stops and there is no "other employers" that you can earn your money from. So, consumer banking and corporate banking is very different. I can see why you believe they are the same because you have only dealt with your own property and credit cards loans and assume it is the same way in corporate banking. No, it is not.

I am alarmed you said CAG is a "SME" when you are talking about tens or even hundreds of millions. Even if it is a SME, banks will still extend loans. In fact, SME accounts for a significant part of banks' corporate business. And there is no such thing as bank extend only a portion of loans applied. If it is the case, then SME can never grow.

Please do not blindly accept what CAG throw at you. Think logically and critically why a company doesn't resort to a cheap loan instead of paying 12+% interest. It is all about risk transfer. High risk high return. Low risk low return. There is no free lunch in this world. Except from your parents


Showtime747
post Jan 26 2014, 05:56 AM

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QUOTE(Kaji2g @ Jan 26 2014, 12:47 AM)
i can explain why genneva failed tho. Although it is not really a scam.

Basically, a short summary is this. You invest money to buy physical gold, and they give you a 3% rate of return per month. At the end of your term of contract, you have 3 options. Either you 1)Keep the gold 2) sell the gold back to genneva 3) reinvest your money

Basically, the idea is that they are speculating on gold prices to remain or keep going up, and people reinvesting their money. Basically if gold prices remain the same or keep rising, everything is good and all, and there is no problem at all.

However, if gold prices drop,  investors will lose their money. This is because genneva could no longer afford the payout they agreed on. But wait, you have the gold you buy as a collateral in the event of a default! However, this is far away from the truth, as their is a clause in the contract that says that genneva has no obligations to buy back the gold, thus the investor is forced to either keep the gold, or sell the gold in the primary market at a much lower price. Thus either way, they lose their money.
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Wow ! The fact that you think Genneva is not really a scam shows that you are just another greedy "investor" that can't think logically. Blinded by the attractive returns and willing to spread unfounded lies to justify your own investment decision. Now I understand why you think CAG is a good investment thumbup.gif


Kaji2g
post Jan 26 2014, 08:44 AM

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Irregardless, the bottom line is that banks will never loan out as much as the private investors do. Somewhere down there is that they believe that getting more money from private investors and paying a higher interest rate, or rate of return, offsets the benefits of a corporate loan by a bank, which is simply lower interest rates, which is not that low in the first place. If you are really in the corporate banking line, you must understand that this is the natural energy business, which doesnt really fit the portfolio of business from banks in the first place. And if you are saying that the bank is willing to take the risk and loan up to the value of the company itself, then I have nothing to say. I have never heard of banks loaning that much, syndicate or not.

In the league of big oil companys, the company CAG is representing, COC, is really not that big at all. It is somewhat around the top 20 small-medium size oil companies in canada.

Please, understand more about the structure and the organizations involved, before you make a valued judgement on the benefits of a bank loan vs raising capital from investors.
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post Jan 26 2014, 08:50 AM

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First, genneva is NOT a ponzi scheme. They are simply speculating on gold prices, in which the gold is used as a collateral in the case of a default. I dont see why it is a scam, if investors in the business understand their business model, and decide that they are willing to speculate that gold prices will continue rising, and understand the risk and loss of capital that they are undertaking when gold prices fall.
Showtime747
post Jan 26 2014, 04:01 PM

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I feel like talking to a brick wall tongue.gif

Anyway, it is your money. If you feel the "investment" is worth while, just like you feel "Genneva is not a scam", then by all means go ahead and "invest" more. I am not your father and you will be responsible for your own action.

Likewise, the readers who seek info about CAG here will judge for themselves and decide whether CAG is a worthwhile "investment"

Good luck to you icon_rolleyes.gif
Kaji2g
post Jan 26 2014, 09:46 PM

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So please explain to me, how is genneva a scam? Its just an investment that is speculating on gold prices. Thats all. They are actually selling and buying a physical gold.

A real scam would be something like an empty investment with no real investment taking place. They would promise a high rate of returns, and in return use new investor's money to pay their said interest, basically a ponzi scheme, and the whole scheme falls apart when there are no new investors left to sustain it. NOW THAT IS A SCAM.
Kaji2g
post Jan 26 2014, 09:50 PM

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And, since you said you had years of corporate experience, I would really love to know, how much said bank is really willing to loan. Because from what I understand from some of my friends in corporate banking, there are many other factors, which decide how much a bank is willing to loan. And sometimes banks dont even take land as a collateral, or as consideration as part of a loan. And so far, energy business, is not really the domain or area of expertise in the bank, and they would have to employ external evaluators. I would really like to know more about this information. Because from what I understand and heard, banks here in Singapore, dont even loan more than 400k-600k for SME, and they have to have good standing credit and various factors to be even considered for a loan.
Showtime747
post Jan 26 2014, 09:54 PM

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QUOTE(Kaji2g @ Jan 26 2014, 09:46 PM)
So please explain to me, how is genneva a scam? Its just an investment that is speculating on gold prices. Thats all. They are actually selling and buying a physical gold.

A real scam would be something like an empty investment with no real investment taking place. They would promise a high rate of returns, and in return use new investor's money to pay their said interest, basically a ponzi scheme, and the whole scheme falls apart when there are no new investors left to sustain it. NOW THAT IS A SCAM.
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Ask your question here. You will have more fun in that thread. Make sure you don't chicken out tongue.gif

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2666347
Showtime747
post Jan 26 2014, 10:00 PM

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QUOTE(Kaji2g @ Jan 26 2014, 09:50 PM)
And, since you said you had years of corporate experience, I would really love to know, how much said bank is really willing to loan. Because from what I understand from some of my friends in corporate banking, there are many other factors, which decide how much a bank is willing to loan. And sometimes banks dont even take land as a collateral, or as consideration as part of a loan. And so far, energy business, is not really the domain or area of expertise in the bank, and they would have to employ external evaluators. I would really like to know more about this information. Because from what I understand and heard, banks here in Singapore, dont even loan more than 400k-600k for SME, and they have to have good standing credit and various factors to be even considered for a loan.
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In your first post here, you sound so confident about bank loan. How come suddenly you ask so many questions (some are dumb questions, no offence) on corporate banking which clearly show you knew nothing about corporate banking ? Seems that you were just blowing water on your first post tongue.gif

Again, please start a thread on corporate banking in FBI. This thread is about CAG and has nothing to do with educating newbie on corporate banking tongue.gif
Kaji2g
post Jan 26 2014, 10:26 PM

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And you clearly avoided the most important question. Which is the amount that a bank is willing to loan, will never be close to what is possible to raise through private investors.
Showtime747
post Jan 26 2014, 10:40 PM

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QUOTE(Kaji2g @ Jan 26 2014, 10:26 PM)
And you clearly avoided the most important question. Which is the amount that a bank is willing to loan, will never be close to what is possible to raise through private investors.
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Friend, I have answered in my previous reply. Bank will loan you the amount you wanted if your business is viable. But you chose not to believe because it contradicts the answer you want. That's why I said I feel like talking to a brick wall tongue.gif

Go and ask your bosses in Canada why they failed to get cheaper loans from bank and have to resort to >12% loans from investors. Or they are just some kind hearted people who's objective in their life is to "help" people ?
GermanInvestor
post Jan 28 2014, 05:10 AM

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Wow, it is so funny to read all this.... I am from germany and here, Proven Oil Canada and Conserce Oil Corporation is hardly discussed.
Maybe you like to hear, that there was no 3% Payment in December for german investorts. COC and POC blame the spread btw WTI and WCS for that.

There are also a lot of business magazines and forums, which write really critical about this investment. So be careful and do not believe everything you were told. Make your own logical and healthy decisions.
de_facto
post Jan 28 2014, 12:05 PM

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QUOTE(GermanInvestor @ Jan 28 2014, 05:10 AM)
Wow, it is so funny to read all this.... I am from germany and here, Proven Oil Canada and Conserce Oil Corporation is hardly discussed.
Maybe you like to hear, that there was no 3% Payment in December for german investorts. COC and POC blame the spread btw WTI and WCS for that.

There are also a lot of business magazines and forums, which write really critical about this investment. So be careful and do not believe everything you were told. Make your own logical and healthy decisions.
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gutentag!

wat is the mags & other forums u talikn bout that talk bad bout this cag/coc/poc?

i wud like to see for myself. pls give url if got. danke!

ps: showtime, u keep up ur gud work man!
GermanInvestor
post Jan 28 2014, 04:46 PM

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QUOTE(de_facto @ Jan 28 2014, 12:05 PM)
gutentag!

wat is the mags & other forums u talikn bout that talk bad bout this cag/coc/poc?

i wud like to see for myself. pls give url if got. danke!

ps: showtime, u keep up ur gud work man!
*
Guten Tag (so you write it right) nod.gif

Of course you can have the links, but do you speak german?? But ok, here they are.

www.wiwo.de (serveral articels, just type in proven oil canada into the search)
http://www.wallstreet-online.de/diskussion...n-oil-canada-ii

There was also an article in Fonds&Co, but i am not shure if it it online or if it was just print.

You can also use the search at www.gomopa.net, but there you have to pay to read all the articles and the forums.
Showtime747
post Jan 28 2014, 08:08 PM

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QUOTE(Kaji2g @ Jan 26 2014, 09:46 PM)
So please explain to me, how is genneva a scam? Its just an investment that is speculating on gold prices. Thats all. They are actually selling and buying a physical gold.

A real scam would be something like an empty investment with no real investment taking place. They would promise a high rate of returns, and in return use new investor's money to pay their said interest, basically a ponzi scheme, and the whole scheme falls apart when there are no new investors left to sustain it. NOW THAT IS A SCAM.
*
How come I have not seen you posting your question in the thread I refer you to ? Chicken out ? whistling.gif Or have you finally realised genneva is in fact a scam ? cry.gif

Just curious, are you an ex-agent from genneva now switch job to sell CAG ? The way you spoke about genneva, high chance you were one of those unscrupulous genneva agent sweat.gif
GermanInvestor
post Jan 28 2014, 08:34 PM

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QUOTE(Showtime747 @ Jan 28 2014, 08:08 PM)
How come I have not seen you posting your question in the thread I refer you to ? Chicken out ?  whistling.gif Or have you finally realised genneva is in fact a scam ?  cry.gif

Just curious, are you an ex-agent from genneva now switch job to sell CAG ? The way you spoke about genneva, high chance you were one of those unscrupulous genneva agent  sweat.gif
*
You are discussing Genneva, but you just have to goggle... And you´ll find this for example:
http://www.cad.gov.sg/content/cad/en/faq/c...va-pte-ltd.html

If this would happen in germany (i mean an investigation), nobody would ever invest in this company again.
.
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post Jan 28 2014, 09:03 PM

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QUOTE(GermanInvestor @ Jan 28 2014, 08:34 PM)
You are discussing Genneva, but you just have to goggle... And you´ll find this for example:
http://www.cad.gov.sg/content/cad/en/faq/c...va-pte-ltd.html

If this would happen in germany (i mean an investigation), nobody would ever invest in this company again.
.
*
Buddy, our friend Kaji2g is not convinced genneva is a scam and wants me to prove to him tongue.gif And I have directed him to a thread discussing about genneva https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2666347 But he chicken out rclxm9.gif


GermanInvestor
post Jan 28 2014, 09:30 PM

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QUOTE(Showtime747 @ Jan 28 2014, 09:03 PM)
Buddy, our friend Kaji2g is not convinced genneva is a scam and wants me to prove to him  tongue.gif And I have directed him to a thread discussing about genneva https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2666347  But he chicken out  rclxm9.gif
*
Some people don't want to know or don´t want to see. same in germany... You can say or write what you want...
For those guys i have just the words: invest there. But can also burn your money instantly. Effect is the same. Money is gone blink.gif
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post Jan 29 2014, 11:03 AM

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I think some of these "investors" are really "wolves in investors' clothing" else WHY the heck would investors advise others to invest based on "greed & hope" VS "cow sense & logic"?

Edu-tainment way to market BS (Genneva v1 and v2, now this)?
de_facto
post Jan 29 2014, 12:50 PM

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QUOTE(GermanInvestor @ Jan 28 2014, 04:46 PM)
Guten Tag (so you write it right)  nod.gif

Of course you can have the links, but do you speak german?? But ok, here they are.

www.wiwo.de (serveral articels, just type in proven oil canada into the search)
http://www.wallstreet-online.de/diskussion...n-oil-canada-ii

There was also an article in Fonds&Co, but i am not shure if it it online or if it was just print.

You can also use the search at www.gomopa.net, but there you have to pay to read all the articles and the forums.
*
Of course you can have the links, but do you speak german?? > nein! sad.gif

but danke very much... i sure that u wud hv read the articles written by proper authorities in germany & based on it, ur sayin they r kritikal of dis investment... thats all i need to know... so danke again... if i meet u in oktoberfest, i buy u beer & schneitzel coz u have saved me lot of $... prost!

de_facto
post Jan 29 2014, 12:56 PM

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QUOTE(Showtime747 @ Jan 28 2014, 09:03 PM)
Buddy, our friend Kaji2g is not convinced genneva is a scam and wants me to prove to him  tongue.gif And I have directed him to a thread discussing about genneva https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2666347  But he chicken out  rclxm9.gif
*
till that remark bout geneva, i still considerin the Capital Asia Group (cag) investment... but after wat he said... i oni roll eyes & say "WTF did he just say?!"... tat pretty much sum it up 4 me lah
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post Jan 29 2014, 03:07 PM

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Imho, this may not be a scam. When you are saying the word "scam", you are making the people who already put money in this "investment" to defensive mode.

However, I still think you should aware of the risk that the company 'cabut lari'. We got many examples of that type of company in Malaysia. Ladang ikan keli, rumah burung layang2, ladang rumpai laut. Not saying these are scam but there are wolves who are using the successful business model to collect easy money.

Now, they are using fancier approach, crude oil investment. As I said, this may not be a scam but it raise a flag when they give 12% annual dividend.

If I am correct, this investment is risk free? A risk free with 12% dividend, greatest deal that can even beat ASB.

P/S: For those who want to know the business model of this group, it is like this:

You buy RM100k oil, this Group will hold the oil for you (cause 100k oil is not that pretty to keep at your house).

Then, the group will sell back to oil company (shell, petron, petronas) at an increased margin because the oil company is paying back in credit term.

I forget how they force the oil company to pay but for 100k oil they will pay 112k at the end of 12 months.

You can reinvest your capital to buy more oil or collect back your money.

Why risk free? Hell, you are selling the oil to the oil giants, what kind of risk we are talking about?

But the main concern is that does such arrangement exist? If I got money, this is a good way to burn some money. At least you have the status of an "oil investor" even if your being duped.
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post Jan 29 2014, 03:38 PM

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QUOTE(yugimudo @ Jan 29 2014, 03:07 PM)
Imho, this may not be a scam. When you are saying the word "scam", you are making the people who already put money in this "investment" to defensive mode.

However, I still think you should aware of the risk that the company 'cabut lari'. We got many examples of that type of company in Malaysia. Ladang ikan keli, rumah burung layang2, ladang rumpai laut. Not saying these are scam but there are wolves who are using the successful business model to collect easy money.

Now, they are using fancier approach, crude oil investment. As I said, this may not be a scam but it raise a flag when they give 12% annual dividend.

If I am correct, this investment is risk free? A risk free with 12% dividend, greatest deal that can even beat ASB.

P/S: For those who want to know the business model of this group, it is like this:

You buy RM100k oil, this Group will hold the oil for you (cause 100k oil is not that pretty to keep at your house).

Then, the group will sell back to oil company (shell, petron, petronas) at an increased margin because the oil company is paying back in credit term.

I forget how they force the oil company to pay but for 100k oil they will pay 112k at the end of 12 months.

You can reinvest your capital to buy more oil or collect back your money.

Why risk free? Hell, you are selling the oil to the oil giants, what kind of risk we are talking about?

But the main concern is that does such arrangement exist? If I got money, this is a good way to burn some money. At least you have the status of an "oil investor" even if your being duped.
*
they will tell you who and who already did their due diligence, if u want. u can fly to canada and do your own Due.D too
malleus
post Jan 29 2014, 08:47 PM

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QUOTE(yugimudo @ Jan 29 2014, 03:07 PM)
Imho, this may not be a scam. When you are saying the word "scam", you are making the people who already put money in this "investment" to defensive mode.

However, I still think you should aware of the risk that the company 'cabut lari'. We got many examples of that type of company in Malaysia. Ladang ikan keli, rumah burung layang2, ladang rumpai laut. Not saying these are scam but there are wolves who are using the successful business model to collect easy money.

Now, they are using fancier approach, crude oil investment. As I said, this may not be a scam but it raise a flag when they give 12% annual dividend.

If I am correct, this investment is risk free? A risk free with 12% dividend, greatest deal that can even beat ASB.

P/S: For those who want to know the business model of this group, it is like this:

You buy RM100k oil, this Group will hold the oil for you (cause 100k oil is not that pretty to keep at your house).

Then, the group will sell back to oil company (shell, petron, petronas) at an increased margin because the oil company is paying back in credit term.

I forget how they force the oil company to pay but for 100k oil they will pay 112k at the end of 12 months.

You can reinvest your capital to buy more oil or collect back your money.

Why risk free? Hell, you are selling the oil to the oil giants, what kind of risk we are talking about?

But the main concern is that does such arrangement exist? If I got money, this is a good way to burn some money. At least you have the status of an "oil investor" even if your being duped.
*
sounds like hedging, but the question is, why would oil producing companies (ie. companies involved in the entire process of oil extraction to refining to the final delivery of oil) bother with having them in their supply chain at all?

It'll be more believable if they claim to hedge oil for sale to large consumers such as power plants or airlines.
de_facto
post Jan 29 2014, 09:41 PM

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QUOTE(malleus @ Jan 29 2014, 08:47 PM)
sounds like hedging, but the question is, why would oil producing companies (ie. companies involved in the entire process of oil extraction to refining to the final delivery of oil) bother with having them in their supply chain at all?

It'll be more believable if they claim to hedge oil for sale to large consumers such as power plants or airlines.
*
which wil just make u ask why large consumers dun just deal direct wid supplier... n cut middleman out... whole thing dun make sense... cag say sumore that end clients include shell, etc... why wud these giants just nt go direkt 2 source themselves?

dammit cag... just release youtube video lah of u guys makin a trip there, talkin to (verifiable!) drillin company top reps, involved parties & end client top reps who can verify ur claims - why waste time talk so much bs & nonsense... the hell? cant even afford ticket 2 go canada & film wid a dslr camera meh?... say collect millions ++... but this basic thing aso dun do ah?... instead reps tryin 2 pursuade geneva is a viable investment(!) shakehead.gif

even pasar malam & my wantan mee seller got lesen wid name & pic displayed upfront wo... u guys even got proper hierarchy chart meh?
yugimudo
post Jan 30 2014, 01:17 PM

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QUOTE(de_facto @ Jan 29 2014, 09:41 PM)
which wil just make u ask why large consumers dun just deal direct wid supplier... n cut middleman out... whole thing dun make sense... cag say sumore that end clients include shell, etc... why wud these giants just nt go direkt 2 source themselves?
*
If Im not mistaken they are using the loophole of "there are not many oil supplier provide long term credit".

I myself is curious on why do the oil company wants to pay extra 12k for every 100k oil they buy.

I may be wrong on the numbers as I dont remember much but I clearly remember the "buy 100k oil, get back 100k + $$".

This method is not impossible, we do know that Giants Corp like credit term than cash term. But for a company that is not known, not backed by government, investing in Feedlot make more sense.
malleus
post Jan 30 2014, 04:27 PM

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QUOTE(yugimudo @ Jan 30 2014, 01:17 PM)
If Im not mistaken they are using the loophole of "there are not many oil supplier provide long term credit".

I myself is curious on why do the oil company wants to pay extra 12k for every 100k oil they buy.

I may be wrong on the numbers as I dont remember much but I clearly remember the "buy 100k oil, get back 100k + $$".

This method is not impossible, we do know that Giants Corp like credit term than cash term. But for a company that is not known, not backed by government, investing in Feedlot make more sense.
*
That's why I mentioned that it sounds suspicious when they're selling back to companies that has got control from extraction, refining all the way to delivery to retail in the first place.
yellowdot
post Feb 3 2014, 10:45 AM

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my fren intro me to tis capital asiA... but i din invest..dunno, just feel its not right..first time see me since high school talk about investment asking me to give money...walauwei, wah beh song lo... mad.gif bad times only think of me..
anyway just out curiosity i google some info..to those who decide to invest do ur homework, that's all i can say.

http://j0035001-1.blogspot.com/2013/06/bew...nt-schemes.html
yellowdot
post Feb 3 2014, 11:02 AM

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Everybody's looking for something. Some of them want to use you. Some of them want to get used by you. Some of them want to abuse you-marilyn manson rclxms.gif

ponzie scheme will always come n go... those who invest early get their returns then sayonara! do your homework.
http://fat88trader.blogspot.com/2012/12/10...-12-return.html
http://j0035001-1.blogspot.com/2013/06/bew...nt-schemes.html

ShinG3e
post Feb 3 2014, 12:04 PM

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after reading all the post, all i had to say is

"good luck to those who invested"

just make sure that it's your excess money instead of your survival cash.

This post has been edited by ShinG3e: Feb 3 2014, 12:05 PM
yugimudo
post Feb 4 2014, 12:15 PM

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QUOTE(ShinG3e @ Feb 3 2014, 12:04 PM)
after reading all the post, all i had to say is

"good luck to those who invested"

just make sure that it's your excess money instead of your survival cash.
*
+1 The best advice.

Any investment has it risk. The riskiest investment is the one you know nothing.

Buka kedai makan pon ada risk. I am not saying CAG is conning your money but do your homework and use your extra money. Don use the "tabung kolej anak saya" money. Too many unknown factor.
jayteng
post Feb 26 2014, 06:30 PM

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QUOTE(yugimudo @ Feb 4 2014, 12:15 PM)
+1 The best advice.

Any investment has it risk. The riskiest investment is the one you know nothing.

Buka kedai makan pon ada risk. I am not saying CAG is conning your money but do your homework and use your extra money. Don use the "tabung kolej anak saya" money. Too many unknown factor.
*
jayteng
post Feb 26 2014, 06:31 PM

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Dear all,

Kindly check this link for more info. Hope it will help.

1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdM9kQDGj1o&feature=youtu.be
2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1wx35VLrXQ&feature=youtu.be


GermanInvestor
post Mar 2 2014, 06:25 PM

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Hey, it seems you know a bit more about this thing. So do you know, if there were some cash flow to the Asian investors the last months? They should get 3% every 3 Month. Did they get it?

QUOTE(jayteng @ Feb 26 2014, 06:31 PM)
FALSEALIAS
post Mar 3 2014, 03:12 PM

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QUOTE(GermanInvestor @ Mar 2 2014, 06:25 PM)
Hey, it seems you know a bit more about this thing. So do you know, if there were some cash flow to the Asian investors the last months? They should get 3% every 3 Month. Did they get it?
*
ya, i heard tht they did get.


GermanInvestor
post Mar 3 2014, 08:44 PM

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Did you just hear it, or did you definetly know it?




quote=FALSEALIAS,Mar 3 2014, 03:12 PM]
ya, i heard tht they did get.
*

[/quote]

de_facto
post Mar 5 2014, 12:10 PM

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[quote=GermanInvestor,Mar 3 2014, 08:44 PM]
Did you just hear it, or did you definetly know it?
quote=FALSEALIAS,Mar 3 2014, 03:12 PM]
ya, i heard tht they did get.
*

[/quote]
*

[/quote]

they definitely got it.

2 ppl who inves confirm verbally they got.

i told them - till u get back ur full 100%, u still in danger.

but ya - they say got the $ for prev quarter.
GermanInvestor
post Mar 5 2014, 02:57 PM

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Ok, thanks for your answer. That is really interesting.




[quote=de_facto,Mar 5 2014, 12:10 PM]
*

[/quote]

they definitely got it.

2 ppl who inves confirm verbally they got.

i told them - till u get back ur full 100%, u still in danger.

but ya - they say got the $ for prev quarter.
*

[/quote]

htc
post Mar 13 2014, 03:38 PM

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sounds like a ponzi scheme to me. if so good, he should ask his father mother, grandmother, sister everyone, sell the house and jump in. but hate to say there is no free lunch
lohks8
post Mar 13 2014, 04:38 PM

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I am one of the investor. Confirmed, I already got my first 3% on 7 Jan and the next payment shall be early Apr.... rclxms.gif
de_facto
post Mar 19 2014, 11:16 AM

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QUOTE(htc @ Mar 13 2014, 03:38 PM)
sounds like a ponzi scheme to me. if so good, he should ask his father mother, grandmother, sister everyone, sell the house and jump in. but hate to say there is no free lunch
*
that video show got sum credibiliti lah...

the 1st one quite decent mah... the 2nd vid quite goreng & time waste...

but k lah, at least they prove wid da vid they legit

wether gt sucess in the long run still dunno

follwin the vid - i got more 'trust'...
de_facto
post Mar 19 2014, 11:30 AM

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QUOTE(lohks8 @ Mar 13 2014, 04:38 PM)
I am one of the investor. Confirmed, I already got my first 3% on 7 Jan and the next payment shall be early Apr.... rclxms.gif
*
good 4 u...

but remeber, till u recover ur full 100% invesmen + kos = u still in danger

celebrate 2 early = might end up cryin l8r

the early return dun mean anytin. u oni clear after full kos recovery & then oni earnin big $

even if its nt a SCAM - many legit enterprise also fold cause unable to maintain high promised returns

most recent xample in msia > chgs oil palm thingy by that lee kim yew cbai

http://www.businesscircle.com.my/lessons-f...growers-scheme/

This post has been edited by de_facto: Mar 19 2014, 08:26 PM
guy3288
post Mar 21 2014, 12:44 AM

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i was also recommended this. I checked it out in their website - hardly any useful info for me. in particular i want to know if i put in 100k, at end of 24 months would i get back that 100k, and they said yes , capital guaranteed. stated there... i asked where??

One Tanzie Ong from the Co called up but gave me the beat around answer. Unable to give me a good reason why in the S&P agreement, they can state the amount XXX invested but at end of 24 months when the oil is finally all sold, they cant state clearly it would be the same xxx amount.(ie capital guaranteed only verbally and not in black and white)

the 3% payback every quarter is stated clearly, but like the german investor said, if this 3% that is in black and white also the Co can avoid paying in German, then this is really a very very high risk investment.

Having read through all the above, i am now more convinced this is a very very high risk investment. You play with it you better pray the price of oil keep going up and they make their money first, you get your 12% pa after all their costs. If they lose you bear the brunt. That is assuming they are ethical business men.


What is 3% every quarter if at the end you cant get back your capital in full?? In 8 payments you only get back 24%, another 76% still in their hand. If things dont work out,surely you are going to lose first, not them!



.


davinz18
post Mar 21 2014, 04:59 PM

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interesting information posted by guy3288..

high risk investment with doubtful return icon_rolleyes.gif
GermanInvestor
post Mar 24 2014, 06:42 AM

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As far as I know from more than one magazine and the letters to the investors:
The German Investors did not get the 3% payment the last 2 times!!!!

So now I ask you: do the Asian investors invest in different oil then the Germans? I do not think so. The manager from Proven Oil Asia and Proven Oil Canada (that's the German company) is the same person!!!

Any more questions???






QUOTE(guy3288 @ Mar 21 2014, 12:44 AM)
i was also recommended this. I checked it out in their website - hardly any useful info for me. in particular i want to know if i put in 100k, at end of 24 months would i get back that 100k, and they said yes , capital guaranteed. stated there... i asked where??

One Tanzie Ong from the Co called up but gave me the beat around answer. Unable to give me a good reason why in the S&P agreement, they can state the amount XXX invested but at end of 24 months when the oil is finally all sold, they cant state clearly it would be the same xxx amount.(ie capital guaranteed only verbally and not in black and white)

the 3% payback every quarter is stated clearly, but like the german investor said, if this 3% that is in black and white also the Co can avoid paying in German, then this is really a very very high risk investment.

Having read through all the above, i am now more convinced this is a very very high risk investment. You play with it you better pray the price of oil keep going up and they make their money first, you get your 12% pa after all their costs. If they lose you bear the brunt. That is assuming they are ethical business men.
What is 3% every quarter if at the end you cant get back your capital in full?? In 8 payments you only get back 24%, another 76% still in their hand. If things dont work out,surely you are going to lose first, not them!
.
*
jackdenz
post Mar 26 2014, 02:06 PM

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After doing a search for Proven Oil Asia I was directed to this series of comments. Clearly no one has seen the situation clearly. You do not get 3% interest every 3 months you only get the discount of 12% paid quarterly!!!
Therefore it is like buying discounted groceries at Tesco and only getting your discount in the future, not at point of sale. Even if you do get the discount at the end of the period you will own a number of drums of crude oil which may be of higher or LOWER value that you paid for it!!! A great scheme for raising money but a risky way of buying oil.
suprafire
post Mar 26 2014, 02:27 PM

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I am a long time customer of Silvermalaysia their sister company. They have introduced the Oil investment to me 6 months ago, quoting 12% p.a. From what i know the minimum investment amount is RM5k. I have not yet decided to embark on their latest investment offer.
GermanInvestor
post Mar 26 2014, 06:44 PM

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First of all: you get your Money back!!! Every 3% are YOUR money, you gave to them. If you have 100% of your invested money back, you can be happy. Eyery payment you get after that will show you, if the investment is really working!!!!!


QUOTE(jackdenz @ Mar 26 2014, 02:06 PM)
After doing a search for Proven Oil Asia I was directed to this series of comments. Clearly no one has seen the situation clearly. You do not get 3% interest every 3 months you only get the discount of 12% paid quarterly!!!
Therefore it is like buying discounted groceries at Tesco and only getting your discount in the future, not at point of sale. Even if you do get the discount at the end of the period you will own a number of drums of crude oil which may be of higher or LOWER value that you paid for it!!! A great scheme for raising money but a risky way of buying oil.
*
guy3288
post Mar 26 2014, 08:51 PM

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yes i was told that 3% is actually the discounted price. And the oil is sold and buy back again every 3 months, in 24 months you buy and sell total 8 times.

Say you buy RM100k on 1.4.2014 , 3 months later they sell your oil and give you your 3% discounted price ie RM3000. Then they use your money again (but i am not sure if it is still RM100k - this is unclear), to buy another lot of oil, also at 3% discounted price. again sell them 3 months later and give you that 3%.

Oil price can move up and also down. So theoretically speaking after buying and selling few cycles you could end up with more or less money, no more the same as your initial amount. If you end up with more money, surely they will take as it is their business profit.

But at the end if sales proceed is much lesser than your initial capital, do you think they will top it up with their pocket money to pay you back your initial amount? I doubt it. Lose you absorb, win they take.

So my question is by the end of the 8x buy- sell, buy- sell cycle, are we still having the RM100k there or not?Tanzie could not give me a clear answer. Verbally she said yes, but i want it stated in black and white on our purchase agreement.


The fact that you have to buy and sell 8 cycles in 2 years give them ample excuses to tell you at the end your proceed is no more Rm100k, as the 8x buy sell process surely incurs expenses not to mention price
volatility.


gtfan
post Mar 27 2014, 03:37 PM

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Someone just called me with regards to this business model.

Straight away, i smell ponzi scheme or scam.

Come on, use common sense, 12% return. This is like another geneva scams trying to hoodwink poor investors.

I really laugh when i saw those poor greedy investors protest and cry claiming it is not a scam when it's outright a scam and a ponzi scheme.

Like they says, greed shows no colour. A sucker is born every minute.
marcuzsutra
post Apr 3 2014, 03:58 PM

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Until now i still very confuse why so many entity to operate one investment.

1)Conserve Oil Corporation (Crude Oil Mining Company)
www.conserveoilcorporation.com
What i know is his role is oil mining

2)Sproule (Providing Certified Valuation Report)
www.sproule.com
This is valuer


3)Schlumberger (Providing World Class Oil Recovery Technology)
www.slb.com
This one is technology provider?


4)Proven Oil Canada (A wholly owned subsidiary of COC, raise funds from Europe thru Private Placement Funds)
www.proven-oil-canada.de

5) Proven Oil Asia (A wholly owned subsidiary of COC, raise funds from Asia thru Crude Oil Purchase Order)
www.provenoilasia.com
This company is in singapore.. what is the function of this company?

6)Capital Asia Group (HK) Ltd (Sole Marketing Agent of Proven Oil Asia Crude Oil Purchase)

www.capitalasiagroup.com

7) Proven Oil Asia Sdn Bhd. register under jonathan and candice( what is the function of this company?)

8) SilverMalaysia.com (Operated by True North Asia Sdn. Bhd.) This also a jonathan and candice company ( Marketing agent of Capital Asia Group?)

if got problem which entity going to responsible? the marketing company? the POA in Singapore or POA in Malaysia or POA in Canada?

Why POA Sdn BHD is register under candice lee and jonathan quek name.? and Why they use SilverMalaysia to market?

spurzboy
post Jun 3 2014, 11:50 PM

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QUOTE(guy3288 @ Mar 26 2014, 08:51 PM)
yes i was told that 3% is actually the discounted price. And the oil is sold and buy back again every 3 months, in 24 months you buy and sell total 8 times.

Say you buy RM100k on 1.4.2014 , 3 months later they sell your oil and give you your 3% discounted price ie RM3000. Then they use your money again (but i am not sure if it is still RM100k - this is unclear), to buy another lot of oil, also at 3% discounted price. again sell them 3 months later and give you that 3%.

Oil price can move up and also down. So theoretically speaking after buying and selling few cycles you could end up with more or less money, no more the same as your initial amount. If you end up with more money, surely they will take as it is their business profit.

But at the end if sales proceed is much lesser than your initial capital, do you think they will top it up with their pocket money to pay you back your initial amount? I doubt it. Lose you absorb, win they take.

So my question is by the end of the 8x buy- sell, buy- sell cycle, are we still having the RM100k there or not?Tanzie could not give me a clear answer. Verbally she said yes, but i want it stated in black and white on our purchase agreement.
The fact that you have to buy and sell 8 cycles in 2 years give them ample excuses to tell you  at the end your proceed is no more Rm100k, as the 8x buy sell process surely incurs expenses not to mention price
volatility.
*
hi there,

I can answer your question. the answer is yes and I can provide you proof of it.
spurzboy
post Jun 3 2014, 11:57 PM

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QUOTE(marcuzsutra @ Apr 3 2014, 03:58 PM)
Until now i still very confuse why so many entity to operate one investment.

1)Conserve Oil Corporation (Crude Oil Mining Company)
www.conserveoilcorporation.com
What i know is his role is oil mining

2)Sproule (Providing Certified Valuation Report)
www.sproule.com
This is valuer
3)Schlumberger (Providing World Class Oil Recovery Technology)
www.slb.com
This one is  technology provider?
4)Proven Oil Canada (A wholly owned subsidiary of COC, raise funds from Europe thru Private Placement Funds)
www.proven-oil-canada.de

5) Proven Oil Asia (A wholly owned subsidiary of COC, raise funds from Asia thru Crude Oil Purchase Order)
www.provenoilasia.com 
This company is in singapore.. what is the function of this company?

6)Capital Asia Group (HK) Ltd (Sole Marketing Agent of Proven Oil Asia Crude Oil Purchase)

www.capitalasiagroup.com

7) Proven Oil Asia Sdn Bhd. register under jonathan and candice( what is the function of this company?)

8) SilverMalaysia.com (Operated by True North Asia Sdn. Bhd.) This also a jonathan and candice company ( Marketing agent of Capital Asia Group?)

if got problem which entity going to responsible? the marketing company? the POA in Singapore or POA in Malaysia or POA in Canada?

Why POA Sdn BHD is register under candice lee and jonathan quek name.? and Why they use SilverMalaysia to market?
*
Answer 1: COC as the agreement is between you n them.

answer 2: owner of cag s'pore knows the both of them personally.

answer 3: silvermalaysia is one of their few distribution partners besides themselves.
GermanInvestor
post Jun 4 2014, 05:16 PM

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Haha!!! That is so funny!!!! The german Investors (who paid in the first place for the oil which is now traded in Asia) didn't get their payments for the 4th time...
So you want me to believe, that your investment is really working?????
By the way: there is more than one law suit against the German company.
And if you do not know it yet: the husband of the German company owner is working for COC as Marketing manager. What a coincidence.....
prncess
post Jun 7 2014, 08:14 PM

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Hi

Im a purchaser of this crude oil program since the day Capital Asia Group launched the project in 2012.
I was told by a friend that there is a forum talking about this program.
So just drop by and have a look.

After reading all the comments, I think all of you have gave good opinions. However personal opinion does not represent the true facts you see!!

I got total of 6 payouts since Jan, Apr, July, Oct 2013. And Jan & April 2014. My next payout is on next month.
So far all the payouts are paid earlier than the mentioned date in the contract.

Before I buy I also did due diligence in it.


GermanInvestor
post Jun 7 2014, 11:11 PM

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Then let's see how long you will get your payment.....
Maybe one more year, that's it....
tan1346
post Jun 8 2014, 07:29 AM

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A tip for you before investing: Please try to understand how the structure/flow of the money works before investing in this.

This post has been edited by tan1346: Jun 8 2014, 07:29 AM
prncess
post Jun 8 2014, 12:50 PM

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QUOTE(tan1346 @ Jun 8 2014, 07:29 AM)
A tip for you before investing: Please try to understand how the structure/flow of the money works before investing in this.
*
Agree with you!

I understand the underlying business structure first.
If the crude oil business itself doesn't make at least 120%, how can they pay 12% to the buyer + X amount of agent fee?
Same thing like wise to Fix deposit, if the bank doesn't make between 20-30%, how can they promise a fix 3% pa rate + fund manager fee + salary + utilities?

Can check what is the cost of production per barrel of crude oil in canada vs what is the price per barrel for crude. You'll understand why Petronas is so rich.

This post has been edited by prncess: Jun 8 2014, 12:51 PM
ikanbilis
post Jun 8 2014, 04:29 PM

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QUOTE(prncess @ Jun 8 2014, 12:50 PM)
Agree with you!

I understand the underlying business structure first.
If the crude oil business itself doesn't make at least 120%, how can they pay 12% to the buyer + X amount of agent fee?
Same thing like wise to Fix deposit, if the bank doesn't make between 20-30%, how can they promise a fix 3% pa rate + fund manager fee + salary + utilities?

Can check what is the cost of production per barrel of crude oil in canada vs what is the price per barrel for crude. You'll understand why Petronas is so rich.
*
It's all about risk vs rewards. If you want safe returns then put in a local bank for 3% a year, guaranteed by PIDM. If you want slightly higher returns then put in Bank Rakyat 4% but not guaranteed by PIDM. If you want 10% -12% and the company is doing well, you might get it every year. If company collapse then bye bye your money then don't cry baby. If you want quick rick program aka ponzi scheme like yslm hopefully you wont jump from petronas towers...

hottoys2u
post Jun 9 2014, 06:09 PM

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you guys know what is PERFECT SCAM? please bear in mind, those people who created such PERFECT SCAM usually smarter and richer than us. I believe that most of here are not richer than the owner. they can provide you thousand of proof to prove you that they are legal. Normally people like us just discuss here in forum can't really figure out a conclusion to identify it is really a scam or not. Sometimes such scam can even involve celebrities, politicians, branded companies. at one point, your friends, your relatives and even you family get involved. you are forced to believe that is no issue. and finally you also start invest your hard earn money.

we heard many times about such story but a new way of scam still keep coming out because they know people are greedy.

I won't say this Crude Oil stuff is a scam now. Recently I just met with one of the agent, and he showed me the S&P and many pages of the contract. I just can't figure out all these documents are genuine cause everything seems out of my knowledge. so i decide to do some research and found this thread.

my conclusion is, if i don't understand the whole thing i better don't take any risk even they offer very attractive returns.

if such good thing is really working, i don't mind to wait for another few years to observe. because I can still get my 4 to 5 % returns with the thing i know now.

You guys know right, such high return thing will always exist. now is crude oil perhaps next time is diamond. as long as you have money, plenty of good chance is waiting for you. like some forumers here said. just invest the thing you really know about it, no free lunch in this world.

I keep myself open and observe this crude oil stuff


guy3288
post Jun 9 2014, 06:31 PM

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the methods are all the same, a friend just invited me to join his Forex ?FNAC or something, paying 3% every week, so it is 12% every 4 weeks!!! Can you believe this??

They recruit new members, collect new money to pay the old members. When they decide to stop, the last who stays will be burnt!


ikanbilis
post Jun 10 2014, 06:32 AM

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QUOTE(guy3288 @ Jun 9 2014, 06:31 PM)
the methods are all the same, a friend just invited me to join his Forex ?FNAC or something, paying 3% every week, so it is 12% every 4  weeks!!! Can you believe this??

They recruit new members, collect new money to pay the old members. When they decide to stop, the last who stays will be burnt!
*
There are always suckers to take the bait. People never learn from lessons. Human greed prevails!!
davinz18
post Jun 24 2014, 04:14 PM

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People never learns that's no such thing as free lunch. Human greed kills
JaniceWLV
post Jun 30 2014, 11:37 PM

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hey guys, sharing my opinion on Capital asia group to you guys. I have been to their office a few times and i was planning to be one of their consultant to sell their product which is crude oil, but over the course of two days i have found out that there is not much of evidence proving just how do they operate the company, all they have are some agreements with BP esso, nexen, tidal and yes, I do doubt the authenticity of the agreements.
and another thing is that which some of u guys mentioned above, why not take a loan from a bank or public list their company to get funds? The company actually pays out more than 15% in interest annually to all of us ( including our commission).
Not only that, there are also very little infos on these websites circulating on the internet (only their own company website), if it is really that good, i am sure it will go viral all over the world, isn't it?

think wisely, its like purchasing paper gold from local banks, they say they do purchase the gold and stock it up for you, but you wouldn't know what they do with your funds.

This post has been edited by JaniceWLV: Jun 30 2014, 11:38 PM
prncess
post Jul 2 2014, 09:08 AM

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QUOTE(hottoys2u @ Jun 9 2014, 06:09 PM)
you guys know what is PERFECT SCAM? please bear in mind, those people who created such PERFECT SCAM usually smarter and richer than us. I believe that most of here are not richer than the owner. they can provide you thousand of proof to prove you that they are legal. Normally people like us just discuss here in forum can't really figure out a conclusion to identify it is really a scam or not. Sometimes such scam can even involve celebrities, politicians, branded companies. at one point, your friends, your relatives and even you family get involved. you are forced to believe that is no issue. and finally you also start invest your hard earn money.

we heard many times about such story but a new way of scam still keep coming out because they know people are greedy.

I won't say this Crude Oil stuff is a scam now. Recently I just met with one of the agent, and he showed me the S&P and many pages of the contract. I just can't figure out all these documents are genuine cause everything seems out of my knowledge. so i decide to do some research and found this thread.

my conclusion is, if i don't understand the whole thing i better don't take any risk even they offer very attractive returns.

if such good thing is really working, i don't mind to wait for another few years to observe. because I can still get my 4 to 5 % returns with the thing i know now.

You guys know right, such high return thing will always exist. now is crude oil perhaps next time is diamond. as long as you have money, plenty of good chance is waiting for you. like some forumers here said. just invest the thing you really know about it, no free lunch in this world.

I keep myself open and observe this crude oil stuff
*
guy3288
post Jul 2 2014, 08:47 PM

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QUOTE(JaniceWLV @ Jun 30 2014, 11:37 PM)
hey guys, sharing my opinion on Capital asia group to you guys. I have been to their office a few times and i was planning to be one of their consultant to sell their product which is crude oil, but over the course of two days i have found out that there is not much of evidence proving just how do they operate the company, all they have are some agreements with BP esso, nexen, tidal and yes, I do doubt the authenticity of the agreements.
and another thing is that which some of u guys mentioned above, why not take a loan from a bank or public list their company to get funds? The company actually pays out more than 15% in interest annually to all of us ( including our commission).
Not only that, there are also very little infos on these websites circulating on the internet (only their own company website), if it is really that good, i am sure it will go viral all over the world, isn't it?

think wisely, its like purchasing paper gold from local banks, they say they do purchase the gold and stock it up for you, but you wouldn't know what they do with your funds.
*
i disagree that is the same like purchasing paper gold from bank. paper gold sold by banks are many times more transparent and the T&C are very clear.
guy3288
post Jul 2 2014, 08:58 PM

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If they are genuinely confident they can pay clients 3% every quarter for 2 years, why not just put it down in black and white, straight forward, no need a thick contract with so many jargons and foreign documents , certifications which we find difficult to verify.

I believe it is those many pages of documents there lie the risks when the company decides to play dirty. surely those words there are meant to cover them when this happens.

However if the documents are in clear terms that if we buy RM100k of oils, we get paid RM3000 every 3 months for 2 years, end of 2 years we get back our RM100k, that would be different.

Why the need to say they must buy sell buy sell 8 times , after all is upto them to do what they want with that oil, just pay us and pay us back our capital in time.
The_Truth
post Jul 3 2014, 06:42 PM

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QUOTE(JaniceWLV @ Jun 30 2014, 11:37 PM)
hey guys, sharing my opinion on Capital asia group to you guys. I have been to their office a few times and i was planning to be one of their consultant to sell their product which is crude oil, but over the course of two days i have found out that there is not much of evidence proving just how do they operate the company, all they have are some agreements with BP esso, nexen, tidal and yes, I do doubt the authenticity of the agreements.
and another thing is that which some of u guys mentioned above, why not take a loan from a bank or public list their company to get funds? The company actually pays out more than 15% in interest annually to all of us ( including our commission).
Not only that, there are also very little infos on these websites circulating on the internet (only their own company website), if it is really that good, i am sure it will go viral all over the world, isn't it?

think wisely, its like purchasing paper gold from local banks, they say they do purchase the gold and stock it up for you, but you wouldn't know what they do with your funds.
*
Hi Janice,

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

But, I just feel that you have not truly understand the product yet. Have you look at the agreements with those oil giants? If yes, just curious why you doubt on it?

Besides that, why don't the company borrow from bank loan, again, I believe that the trainer has explained in every training, did you listen that? Are you in the training for fully 3 days?

About the website, the company are revamping the website and all of the consultants know about this.Did you ask any consultant about this?Also, in the website you can actually click a link that link to previous website.

Just for your info. Cheers.



The_Truth
post Jul 3 2014, 06:56 PM

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QUOTE(guy3288 @ Jul 2 2014, 08:58 PM)
If they are genuinely confident they can pay clients 3% every quarter for 2 years, why not just put it down in black and white, straight forward, no need  a thick contract with so many jargons  and foreign  documents , certifications which we find difficult to verify.

I believe it is those many pages of documents there lie the risks when the company decides to play dirty. surely those words there are meant to cover them when this happens.

However if the documents are in clear terms that if we buy RM100k of oils, we get paid RM3000 every 3 months for 2 years, end of 2 years we get back our RM100k, that would be different.

Why the need to say they must buy sell buy sell 8 times , after all is upto them to do what they want with that oil, just pay us and pay us back our capital in time.
*
Hi

Just for your info. Is all back and white in the documents, have you truly read it?

If you think the documents lie the risks, I believe all the consultants are professional and patience enough to explain to you all the documents one by one. Or else, you can seek a lawyer consultation. Have you done it before?

Why buy and sell 8 times, again, I believe that you have not understand the product yet. Why not take action, go to the office and ask about it?

If you think this is too good to be true, why not spend sometimes to understand first?
This kind of returns or business model is not new in the market. Maybe just you haven't got the chance explore this kind of opportunity before. Kindly suggest you to attend more investment talk to explore different opportunity.

Action speaks louder than words. Cheers !

This post has been edited by The_Truth: Jul 3 2014, 07:01 PM
escargo75
post Jul 19 2014, 10:56 PM

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I just got paid for 4th time rclxms.gif
guy3288
post Jul 20 2014, 12:18 AM

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QUOTE(escargo75 @ Jul 19 2014, 10:56 PM)
I just got paid for 4th time  rclxms.gif
*
it was from my money, i just invested. I am waiting for the next recruit to pay mine...
GermanInvestor
post Jul 21 2014, 06:07 PM

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QUOTE(guy3288 @ Jul 20 2014, 12:18 AM)
it was from my  money, i just invested. I am waiting for the next recruit to pay mine...
*
No, it was paid with the Money of the german Investors! Which, by the way, haven't seen their payments for months...
The_Truth
post Jul 22 2014, 01:15 PM

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QUOTE(guy3288 @ Jul 20 2014, 12:18 AM)
it was from my  money, i just invested. I am waiting for the next recruit to pay mine...
*
Oh really? Show me your documents please. If you are not confident on the product why do you buy? Show me which project you are in, if you join early means your project would be exit soon. Show me the prove.

jack2
post Jul 22 2014, 01:16 PM

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Just got my third payment... 3% and this was my third time after invested last year at Oct.

My sales personnel will be going to Canada and visit the oil palm... I am thinking to join them
The_Truth
post Jul 22 2014, 01:28 PM

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QUOTE(GermanInvestor @ Jul 21 2014, 06:07 PM)
No, it was paid with the Money of the german Investors! Which, by the way, haven't seen their payments for months...
*
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion but not to his own facts.

German Investor show me the prove, if you dare to say that. Have you ever step in to the office and verify it?

I'm guessing is that because of the product has conflict of interest with you? Are you marketing another product which sell Germany property ? Or just based on assumption?

Anyway, I never comment about other people products unless I got hard FACTS !

I believe smart people will not influence by assumptions, only look for hard facts.

Thats why certain opportunities is only can benefit people with right mindset.

Cheers.
GermanInvestor
post Jul 23 2014, 05:08 AM

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QUOTE(The_Truth @ Jul 22 2014, 01:28 PM)
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion but not to his own facts.

German Investor show me the prove, if you dare to say that. Have you ever step in to the office and verify it?

I'm guessing is that because of the product has conflict of interest with you? Are you marketing another product which sell Germany property ? Or just based on assumption?

Anyway, I never comment about other people products unless I got hard FACTS !

I believe smart people will not influence by assumptions, only look for hard facts.

Thats why certain opportunities is only can benefit people with right mindset.

Cheers.
*
In Germany there are hard facts, maybe you just don't know ! There is one law suit on its way against Proven Oil Canada.
You think, I want to promote another crude oil scheme? Sorry to disappoint you. My uncle is invested in Proven oil canada, that's why I know what's going on there. And I also know, in which areas the German investors invested their money. These areas are the same (as far as I know) as the areas the Asians are investing. So who do you think has paid the areas in the first way, so there can be pumped up oil? That oil that you buy right now!!

And there are more oil investments in Germany, which are not paying their investors. So I am far away from promoting one of these money catching companys.
suprafire
post Jul 23 2014, 11:26 AM

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They've been calling me like crazy to push this investment. But my sixth sense tells me otherwise; from experience anything that is that lucrative won't be shared. The real world just don't work like that. Not that there is anything wrong with the company, i've been buying metals from them for quite a while now; good service & excellent products.
The_Truth
post Jul 23 2014, 01:47 PM

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QUOTE(GermanInvestor @ Jul 23 2014, 05:08 AM)
In Germany there are hard facts, maybe you just don't know ! There is one law suit on its way against Proven Oil Canada.
You think, I want to promote another crude oil scheme? Sorry to disappoint you. My uncle is invested in Proven oil canada, that's why I know what's going on there. And I also know, in which areas the German investors invested their money. These areas are the same (as far as I know) as the areas the Asians are investing. So who do you think has paid the areas in the first way, so there can be pumped up oil? That oil that you buy right now!!

And there are more oil investments in Germany, which are not paying their investors. So I am far away from promoting one of these money catching companys.
*
So you mean there are hard facts saying the buyer in Germany didn't receive the 3% payout? But, you didn't provide the prove, how to make people believe it?

Also, I just wonder where you get the news? First things first, POC structure is totally different with POA. POC is close-end fund structure, POA is fixed 3% every 3 months structure. So, why would you say German investor didn't get the 3% payout?

Obviously, your statement is something wrong.

Also, buyer is not buying into oil field, is buying into the physical oil. So, I don't get it why you say is same area. What does that mean?

By the way, did you step in the office and verify it? If not, don't you think this is misleading people?


GermanInvestor
post Jul 23 2014, 02:43 PM

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QUOTE(The_Truth @ Jul 23 2014, 01:47 PM)
So you mean there are hard facts saying the buyer in Germany didn't receive the 3% payout? But, you didn't provide the prove, how to make people believe it?

Also, I just wonder where you get the news? First things first, POC structure is totally different with POA. POC is close-end fund structure, POA is fixed 3% every 3 months structure. So, why would you say German investor didn't get the 3% payout?

Obviously, your statement is something wrong.

Also, buyer is not buying into oil field, is buying into the physical oil. So, I don't get it why you say is same area. What does that mean?

By the way, did you step in the office and verify it? If not, don't you think this is misleading people?
*
You want proof, that the German investors did not get their payments?
Just google Proven Oil Canada and you will find a lot of entries (from lawyers, newspapers, magazines and forums) showing there is NO payment!
Do you think I am that stupid, just saying there is something but there is no proof???

And maybe you have no idea, how the German investment is working. It is totally different from the Asian. And by the way: a German investor has to put a minimum of 15 TSD EUROS(!!!!!!) into the Proven oil Canada investment. Not like you just 1 or 2 TSD Euros!
The Asians are investing in the physical oil, the Germans have invested in everything around, so that there can be pumped up oil!!!
That's the big difference!

So maybe you should be informing yourself, before pointing out, that somebody has no idea what he is talking about!!
GermanInvestor
post Jul 23 2014, 03:18 PM

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QUOTE(The_Truth @ Jul 23 2014, 01:47 PM)
So you mean there are hard facts saying the buyer in Germany didn't receive the 3% payout? But, you didn't provide the prove, how to make people believe it?

Also, I just wonder where you get the news? First things first, POC structure is totally different with POA. POC is close-end fund structure, POA is fixed 3% every 3 months structure. So, why would you say German investor didn't get the 3% payout?

Obviously, your statement is something wrong.

Also, buyer is not buying into oil field, is buying into the physical oil. So, I don't get it why you say is same area. What does that mean?

By the way, did you step in the office and verify it? If not, don't you think this is misleading people?
*


And same area means same oil fields. Is that so difficult to understand?
The Germans paid over 300 Milion Euros to make sure, there is any oil pumped up. And the Asians just buy the physical oil from these fields.

And here are some links about the payments:

http://www.resch-rechtsanwaelte.de/anleger...legerhilfe.html

http://forum-kapitalanlagerecht.de/anlageb...nada-fonds-poc/

http://www.ra-lachmair.de/bank-und-kapital...-trau-schau-wem

And there are much more entries if you like to have them all.





The_Truth
post Jul 24 2014, 08:23 PM

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QUOTE(GermanInvestor @ Jul 23 2014, 03:18 PM)
And same area means same oil fields. Is that so difficult to understand?
The Germans paid over 300 Milion Euros to make sure, there is any oil pumped up. And the Asians just buy the physical oil from these fields.

And here are some links about the payments:

http://www.resch-rechtsanwaelte.de/anleger...legerhilfe.html

http://forum-kapitalanlagerecht.de/anlageb...nada-fonds-poc/

http://www.ra-lachmair.de/bank-und-kapital...-trau-schau-wem

And there are much more entries if you like to have them all.
*
Did you read the prospectus ? What is the purpose of the fund?

And, I believe if your uncle is really one of the investors, he surely has received the official announcement by the company why they do not distribute dividends in 2014. Also, the investor has received the dividends in past 4 years, did he receive it?

The article that you shared, from there you can see the journalist have claimed that the information mainly is based on assumptions.

If your uncle is really an investor, why not you send an email to Malaysia Office or make an appointment in the office, show your uncle name. Capital Asia Group have the answer to your concerns.The company has got the reply from the oil company. Fair enough?

Cheers.


GermanInvestor
post Jul 25 2014, 03:04 AM

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QUOTE(The_Truth @ Jul 24 2014, 08:23 PM)
Did you read the prospectus ? What is the purpose of the fund?

And, I believe if your uncle is really one of the investors, he surely has received the official announcement by the company why they do not distribute dividends in 2014. Also, the investor has received the dividends in past 4 years, did he receive it?

The article that you shared, from there you can see the journalist have claimed that the information mainly is based on assumptions.

If your uncle is really an investor, why not you send an email to Malaysia Office or make an appointment in the office, show your uncle name. Capital Asia Group have the answer to your concerns.The company has got the reply from the oil company. Fair enough?



Cheers.
*
I think you do not understand it till now. Yes, my uncle got payments the last 3 years and yes, he got the statement, why they can't pay. Which I also looked at.
The statement says: the reason they can't pay is because of the low oil price... But if you look at the oil price the last 3-4 years, it is not that low. Is has been lower and there they have paid....

And: why should my uncle contact Malaysia??? Is is invested in Canada through the German POC!

I just want to let you know, that not everything is ok with this Conserve Oil Corporation. But you seen to work for one of these company's or you are just naiv!!

There are no assumptions concerning the payments in Germany, that are hard facts.
So now you can believe what ever you want. It's a waste of time, arguing with you.
The_Truth
post Jul 25 2014, 07:47 AM

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QUOTE(GermanInvestor @ Jul 25 2014, 03:04 AM)
I think you do not understand it till now. Yes, my uncle got payments the last 3 years and yes, he got the statement, why they can't pay. Which I also looked at.
The statement says: the reason they can't pay is because of the low oil price... But if you look at the oil price the last 3-4 years, it is not that low. Is has been lower and there they have paid....

And: why should my uncle contact Malaysia??? Is is invested in Canada through the German POC!

I just want to let you know, that not everything is ok with this Conserve Oil Corporation. But you seen to work for one of these company's or you are just naiv!!

There are no assumptions concerning the payments in Germany, that are hard facts.
So now you can believe what ever you want. It's a waste of time, arguing with you.
*
Firstly, I'm not trying to argue with you here, I believe need to be fair to your uncle and the oil company if can clarify the things. You can have your concerns it is fine, but please give others a chance to explain to you before you make a conclusion.

Just like many Journalist, they can write things when they get the information from online and based on their own opinion. (* which I called assumption). For Example, if today you intend to buy a car and you want to know the features and performance of the car, would you go and ask someone has never drive the car before and they get information from online or you will directly go to the showroom and ask the sales coordinator? Who you think has the most product knowledge?

Why the fund not distribute the dividends to German investor is mainly because the fund has got a vote of 86% with over 3,000 investors voting where the investors wanted asset appreciation over the years and therefore in the year 2013 $59million was spent on capital on the assets to increase value. An additional $18million dollar acquisition was made for the fund in 2013 for capital expenditures exceeding $70million in 2013. The investments into the assets is made to grow the asset base and overall return to the investors.
Distributions to German Investors has been consistently made for over 4 years now with some investors having received over 60% of their invested capital returned to date.In the year of 2014 the fund is continuing to focus on asset growth in order to generate the highest possible returns.

The Euro compared to the Canadian Dollar is also at a all time high with $1Euro being equivalent to $1.54CAD/ $1.50 CAD when in the past $1Euro was only $1.34CAD. This also shows that currently it would not be a good time to send Canadian earned cash flow over to Europe as distributions.

Asia structure is a 2 year structure with 24% returns to the Clients. The German investors are wanting a 200% return as per the prospectus over a greater than 4 year time frame.

I understand why German are skeptical recently is because in Germany two of the larger closed end funds just went bankrupt and now the market is just nervous.

GermanInvestor, I understand your feeling because that is your uncle hard earn money, I feel you. I hope that I give you a clearer picture now. If I offend you by my previous statement, I'm here to say sorry to you.

Cheers.



guy3288
post Jul 25 2014, 09:05 AM

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QUOTE(The_Truth @ Jul 25 2014, 07:47 AM)


  For Example, if today you intend to buy a car and you want to know the features and performance of the car, would you go and ask someone has never drive the car before and they get information from online or you will directly go to the showroom and ask the sales coordinator? Who you think has the most product knowledge?


Cheers.
*
Do you think salesman will tell you the weakness of their products??
How is the salesman going to sell if tell everything, good and bad about it?

So they tell you only the good parts, bad part they may not know, only the top official may know.

So customer buy and complained in the internet, and that's where how other people know about your bad products.Read from online..


asokakenji
post Jul 25 2014, 11:18 AM

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Oh great, CAG.

Anyone invested their previous product? The Lulana garden in Hawaii?
It promised 30% within 30 months but I know some of the investors haven't receive the capital and the profit after 30 months.

Well, so much for the promises. Good luck with the crude oil investment.



GermanInvestor
post Jul 25 2014, 03:39 PM

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QUOTE(The_Truth @ Jul 25 2014, 07:47 AM)
Firstly, I'm not trying to argue with you here, I believe need to be fair to your uncle and the oil company if can clarify the things.  You can have your concerns it is fine, but please give others a chance to explain to you before you make a conclusion. 

Just like many Journalist, they can write things when they get the information from online and based on their own opinion. (* which I called assumption).  For Example, if today you intend to buy a car and you want to know the features and performance of the car, would you go and ask someone has never drive the car before and they get information from online or you will directly go to the showroom and ask the sales coordinator? Who you think has the most product knowledge?

Why the fund not distribute the dividends to German investor is mainly because the fund has got a vote of 86% with over 3,000 investors voting where the investors wanted asset appreciation over the years and therefore in the year 2013 $59million was spent on capital on the assets to increase value. An additional $18million dollar acquisition was made for the fund in 2013 for capital expenditures exceeding $70million in 2013. The investments into the assets is made to grow the asset base and overall return to the investors.
Distributions to German Investors has been consistently made for over 4 years now with some investors having received over 60% of their invested capital returned to date.In the year of 2014 the fund is continuing to focus on asset growth in order to generate the highest possible returns.

The Euro compared to the Canadian Dollar is also at a all time high with $1Euro being equivalent to $1.54CAD/ $1.50 CAD when in the past $1Euro was only $1.34CAD. This also shows that currently it would not be a good time to send Canadian earned cash flow over to Europe as distributions. 

Asia structure is a 2 year structure with 24% returns to the Clients. The German investors are wanting a 200% return as per the prospectus over a greater than 4 year time frame.

I understand why German are skeptical recently is because in Germany two of the larger closed end funds just went bankrupt and now the market is just nervous.

GermanInvestor, I understand your feeling because that is your uncle hard earn money, I feel you. I hope that I give you a clearer picture now. If I offend you by my previous statement, I'm here to say sorry to you.

Cheers.
*
Where do you get the information about the vote??
In 2013 there was a voting for putting every finds together in one large fonds, called "Canadian Oil and Gas International Ltd".
The reason for that was (as Proven Oil told the investors): lower costs and the gas fonds could profit more from the oil funds.
But: they can also aquire 40% loan capital, without a vote from the investors. And: the investment is now totally different in that, which the investors invested in the first place. Since that day, there are less information, no payments and no actual news given to the investors.

Maybe you are right, that the investors get back nearly 60% of their investment till today. But what about the rest of 40%??
You also need to know: if an investor invested 100 TSD Euros, only max of 85% of it where invested. The rest is gone. For costs only (management fee, auditor etc).
So if you want to make it right, just say the investors get back 40-50% till now.

And I am pretty sure, that's it.

But you are right. Most of the investors are afraid of getting linked because of a lot of frauds the last years. There were not only 2 big frauds, there has been a lot more going on.

Since the shipping crisis starts in 2009/2010, more and more not really serious investment firms popped out of nowhere. All of them promise 12% or more cash flow. Of course without any risk ;-)

I told my uncle, that I am not sorry for him, if he looses his money. That construction could not work and with the people behind that company's, everybody should have known about the high risks.

I would never invest in such a company and in such cash flow promises. I work hard for my money and if I want to loose it, I could also burn it. Same result: money is gone!!
escargo75
post Jul 25 2014, 11:41 PM

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QUOTE(The_Truth @ Jul 25 2014, 08:47 AM)
Firstly, I'm not trying to argue with you here, I believe need to be fair to your uncle and the oil company if can clarify the things.  You can have your concerns it is fine, but please give others a chance to explain to you before you make a conclusion. 

Just like many Journalist, they can write things when they get the information from online and based on their own opinion. (* which I called assumption).  For Example, if today you intend to buy a car and you want to know the features and performance of the car, would you go and ask someone has never drive the car before and they get information from online or you will directly go to the showroom and ask the sales coordinator? Who you think has the most product knowledge?

Why the fund not distribute the dividends to German investor is mainly because the fund has got a vote of 86% with over 3,000 investors voting where the investors wanted asset appreciation over the years and therefore in the year 2013 $59million was spent on capital on the assets to increase value. An additional $18million dollar acquisition was made for the fund in 2013 for capital expenditures exceeding $70million in 2013. The investments into the assets is made to grow the asset base and overall return to the investors.
Distributions to German Investors has been consistently made for over 4 years now with some investors having received over 60% of their invested capital returned to date.In the year of 2014 the fund is continuing to focus on asset growth in order to generate the highest possible returns.

The Euro compared to the Canadian Dollar is also at a all time high with $1Euro being equivalent to $1.54CAD/ $1.50 CAD when in the past $1Euro was only $1.34CAD. This also shows that currently it would not be a good time to send Canadian earned cash flow over to Europe as distributions. 

Asia structure is a 2 year structure with 24% returns to the Clients. The German investors are wanting a 200% return as per the prospectus over a greater than 4 year time frame.

I understand why German are skeptical recently is because in Germany two of the larger closed end funds just went bankrupt and now the market is just nervous.

GermanInvestor, I understand your feeling because that is your uncle hard earn money, I feel you. I hope that I give you a clearer picture now. If I offend you by my previous statement, I'm here to say sorry to you.

Cheers.
*
Good one rclxms.gif

escargo75
post Jul 25 2014, 11:44 PM

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QUOTE(GermanInvestor @ Jul 25 2014, 04:39 PM)
Where do you get the information about the vote??
In 2013 there was a voting for putting every finds together in one large fonds, called "Canadian Oil and Gas International Ltd".
The reason for that was (as Proven Oil told the investors): lower costs and the gas fonds could profit more from the oil funds.
But: they can also aquire 40% loan capital, without a vote from the investors. And: the investment is now totally different in that, which the investors invested in the first place. Since that day, there are less information, no payments and no actual news given to the investors.

Maybe you are right, that the investors get back nearly 60% of their investment till today. But what about the rest of 40%??
You also need to know: if an investor invested 100 TSD Euros, only max of 85% of it where invested. The rest is gone. For costs only (management fee, auditor etc).
So if you want to make it right, just say the investors get back 40-50% till now.

And I am pretty sure, that's it.

But you are right. Most of the investors are afraid of getting linked because of a lot of frauds the last years. There were not only 2 big frauds, there has been a lot more going on.

Since the shipping crisis starts in 2009/2010, more and more not really serious investment firms popped out of nowhere. All of them promise 12% or more cash flow. Of course without any risk ;-)

I told my uncle, that I am not sorry for him, if he looses his money. That construction could not work and with the people behind that company's, everybody should have known about the high risks.

I would never invest in such a company and in such cash flow promises. I work hard for my money and if I want to loose it, I could also burn it. Same result: money is gone!!
*
You always be loser whistling.gif

GermanInvestor
post Jul 27 2014, 01:05 AM

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QUOTE(escargo75 @ Jul 25 2014, 11:44 PM)
You always be loser  whistling.gif
*
If you mean being a loser means not to invest in a high risk investment, you are right.
If you mean being a loser means that I do not define myself through money, you are also right.
If you mean being a loser means not to believe in everything that somebody tells me, you are absolutely right!!!!
lkwah86
post Aug 4 2014, 04:04 PM

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Captured from a flyer

What Am I Buying?
Ans: You are buying PHYSICAL CRUDE OIL with a discount of 3% distributed quarterly from an established Canadian Oil & Gas company "Conserve Oil Corporation" with producing oil fields.

What assurances are in place to ensure that my crude oil will be further sold and 3% discount will be distributed to me quarterly?
Ans: COC will ensure that your crude oil purchase are sold every 3 months with quarterly distribution back to you, because they have a long standing sales agreement with BP, TIDAL, NEXEN, SHELL, KEYERA, ALTAGAS, IMPERIAL OIL etc.

Is my crude oil purchase subjected to volatility of oil prices?
No, because the 3% discount is calculated base on your purchase amount.

Is there any protection against my purchase?
Ans: Yes, a first charge is place on another identified producing oil field to match your purchased dollars.

Is my purchase exposed to currency risk?
No, all purchase made are in MYR equivalent.

This post has been edited by lkwah86: Aug 4 2014, 04:34 PM
UglyOrgan
post Aug 6 2014, 02:10 AM

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the salegirl (tanzie) assured me that the capital is guaranteed.. no risk.. and 3% every 3 months... this means 12% every year... wow..no risk.. with such a high return... i am very afraid..sounds too fishy...

if this is that good, ppl will borrow money from bank, from relatives, from ah long..and invest into this thing!
GermanInvestor
post Aug 6 2014, 02:44 PM

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QUOTE(UglyOrgan @ Aug 6 2014, 02:10 AM)
the salegirl (tanzie) assured me that the capital is guaranteed.. no risk.. and 3% every 3 months... this means 12% every year... wow..no risk.. with such a high return... i am very afraid..sounds too fishy...

if this is that good, ppl will borrow money from bank, from relatives, from ah long..and invest into this thing!
*
Guaranteed 12 % p.a. Without any risk? Hello!!??? Wake up.
By the way: does anybody know, how this guarantee looks like? Does Mr Crombie guarantee with his private money or what?
UglyOrgan
post Aug 8 2014, 02:36 AM

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QUOTE(GermanInvestor @ Aug 6 2014, 02:44 PM)
Guaranteed 12 % p.a. Without any risk? Hello!!??? Wake up.
By the way: does anybody know, how this guarantee looks like? Does Mr Crombie guarantee with his private money or what?
*
yea....too good to be true... 12% per annum no risk...
quite certain its a scam...
she said not regulated by Bank Negara..
Maneki-neko
post Aug 9 2014, 09:16 AM

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QUOTE(UglyOrgan @ Aug 8 2014, 02:36 AM)
yea....too good to be true... 12% per annum no risk...
quite certain its a scam...
she said not regulated by Bank Negara..
*
Not regulated?? Good luck guys ...
escargo75
post Aug 17 2014, 04:33 PM

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QUOTE(Maneki-neko @ Aug 9 2014, 10:16 AM)
Not regulated?? Good luck guys ...
*
For all skeptics watch the con-man at work at Invest Fair Malaysia 2014 lol.....


coldspray
post Aug 18 2014, 10:36 AM

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QUOTE(escargo75 @ Aug 17 2014, 04:33 PM)
For all skeptics watch the con-man at work at Invest Fair Malaysia 2014 lol.....
*
They even got the 'most preferred alternative investment' award.
suprafire
post Aug 18 2014, 10:46 AM

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It may be possible to provide such an investment with secured futures contracts, with buyers agreeing on the future price of the commodity and producers set on their sell price... thus negating any risk. I will be meeting up with one of their salesperson and will check them on this.
escargo75
post Aug 24 2014, 09:36 PM

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QUOTE(suprafire @ Aug 18 2014, 11:46 AM)
It may be possible to provide such an investment with secured futures contracts, with buyers agreeing on the future price of the commodity and producers set on their sell price... thus negating any risk. I will be meeting up with one of their salesperson and will check them on this.
*
They are launching a 6 months project where you get back your capital + interest in 6 months! Even more scary for those skeptics that con man want to have a quick shot and run away?
joe_mamak
post Sep 27 2014, 06:32 PM

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Someone approached me about this too. I did some googling here and there. Just sharing what I have come across -

http://cgmalaysia.blogspot.com/2014/08/pro...l-asia-and.html
http://cgmalaysia.blogspot.sg/2014/06/sgx-...d-on-mas_7.html

First blog entry, refers to KiniBiz articles -

http://www.kinibiz.com/story/issues/103684...-trading-2.html
http://www.kinibiz.com/story/issues/103423...oo-be-true.html

cybermaster98
post Sep 27 2014, 06:54 PM

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So is this whole thing a fraud or not?
guy3288
post Sep 27 2014, 08:37 PM

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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Sep 27 2014, 06:54 PM)
So is this whole thing a fraud or not?
*
it's not a fraud, it's a high risk investment sold as no risk to unsuspecting people.
Take the risk, Invest and if you are lucky ie the price of oil keep going up and they make money and they are willing to share with you their profits, then you get back your capital plus 12% pa return.

If they lose money or when they become greedy and wanna wallop your share of profits as well, there is nothing much that you can do, despite holding those pages of contract and agreements. They were meant to be twisted and ambiguous when you wanna use it for claims.
nexona88
post Sep 27 2014, 10:14 PM

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QUOTE(guy3288 @ Sep 27 2014, 08:37 PM)
it's not a fraud, it's a high risk investment sold as no risk to unsuspecting people.
Take the risk, Invest and if you are lucky ie the price of oil keep going up and they make money and they are willing to share with you their profits, then you get back your capital plus 12% pa return.

If they lose money or when they become greedy and wanna wallop your share of profits as well, there is nothing much that you can do, despite holding  those pages of contract and agreements. They were meant to be twisted and ambiguous when you wanna use it for claims.
*
OMG shakehead.gif
Now I see world oil price drop below USD100/barrel nod.gif How to profit ohmy.gif

This post has been edited by nexona88: Sep 27 2014, 10:14 PM
escargo75
post Oct 4 2014, 04:50 PM

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QUOTE(nexona88 @ Sep 27 2014, 11:14 PM)
OMG shakehead.gif
Now I see world oil price drop below USD100/barrel  nod.gif How to profit ohmy.gif
*
Yeah see they give out the interest this month or not

nexona88
post Oct 4 2014, 05:26 PM

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QUOTE(escargo75 @ Oct 4 2014, 04:50 PM)
Yeah see they give out the interest this month or not
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don't think so. Now near USD90/barrel shocking.gif while in BolehLand doh.gif shakehead.gif
guy3288
post Oct 4 2014, 05:47 PM

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QUOTE(nexona88 @ Oct 4 2014, 05:26 PM)
don't think so. Now near USD90/barrel  shocking.gif  while in BolehLand  doh.gif  shakehead.gif
*
if they still wanna continue the scheme, ie wanna get more from new recruits, i believe they will pay out, despite oil price drops
becos they still have more than enough in their hand to pay you only 0.03 of what you gave them.

The risk is at the end when they wanna 'run'. Who knows when is their tail end?
It is not so much about not getting your 1st few 3% quarterly payout.

What is the problem of taking your RM100k and give you back RM3k once or twice? How much more still in their hand?
Even if oil gone down so much your remaining
oil should still be able to give few more payouts just to convince the new recruits to join.

Sekali they refuse to pay, then you know the end has come. Too late to cry then.
nexona88
post Oct 4 2014, 06:00 PM

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QUOTE(guy3288 @ Oct 4 2014, 05:47 PM)
if they still wanna continue the scheme, ie wanna get more from new recruits, i believe they will pay out, despite oil price drops
becos they still have more than enough in their hand to pay you only 0.03 of what you gave them.

The risk is at the end when they wanna 'run'. Who knows when is their tail end?
It is not so much about not getting your 1st few 3% quarterly payout.

What is the problem of taking your RM100k and give you back RM3k once or twice? How much more still in their hand?
Even if oil gone down so much your remaining
oil should still be able to give few more payouts just to convince the new recruits to join.

Sekali they refuse to pay, then you know the end has come. Too late to cry then.
*
I see. okay, I think they would still want to recuit more people in to make more money thus would be giving the interest this month smile.gif


ronho
post Oct 18 2014, 01:16 PM

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anyone received this month ??
escargo75
post Oct 19 2014, 03:53 PM

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QUOTE(ronho @ Oct 18 2014, 02:16 PM)
anyone received this month ??
*
Yes, paid this month!
~Curious~
post Nov 14 2014, 01:04 PM

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Since its mentioned here as a high risk investment,3% every 3 months like not worth the risks wor.Do u think its better to invest in a REIT that gives out monthly pay outs?
elea88
post Nov 14 2014, 04:49 PM

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QUOTE(de_facto @ Oct 16 2013, 12:23 PM)
so much of glaring loose threads...

seriously, what homework u all do?

provided sites all foreign language, trustee unknown, etc... is the johnathan quek fella involved in this or wat?

no one askin right question like is this malaysian ministry approved, etc?

12% a year damm attractive... but wheres the assurance?!
*
~Curious~
post Nov 15 2014, 05:33 PM

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QUOTE(elea88 @ Nov 14 2014, 04:49 PM)

*
so true....iim new to investing,could u share a few pointers as to what are the things I should look out for?
EmilyGoh
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QUOTE(LawrenZza @ Jun 8 2013, 05:33 PM)
I recently came across this group called CAPITAL ASIA GROUP, anyone heard of it before?

Anyone heard of crud oil investment?

would like to know more about it before investing in them.

so if anyone have any or some kind of knowledge about it, please share.

would very much like to hear your point of view before making any wrong moves.

Very much appreciated.
*
Dear,

some of it might risky in this of investment. Many of my friends had this problems too.. Best example :Unitrust
Y not try to have low risky and achievable return ?
trinity3
post Nov 21 2014, 02:28 PM

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Hi,

came across this interesting thread. Based on what was discussed & reading the article on KiniBiz,
just wonder why the oil company don't use factoring? Factoring defined .

There are plenty of factoring companies for oil and gas. Not sure the rate such companies want in return for such advances. Still begs the question why go through all the trouble looking for small time investors vs dealing with several bigger companies.

So verdict is still unable to determine if scam or not.

Returns guaranteed on paper? Ok. (GermanInvestor says got issue, related?)

Return off your investment i.e. getting back your capital? Don't know yet.

It being positioned/marketed as a low risk investment would be unethical. For the risk incurred, i think there are other investments less "pening"

Some blue chip high dividend shares, unit trust also less headache, sleepless night.

This post has been edited by trinity3: Nov 21 2014, 02:35 PM
escargo75
post Nov 22 2014, 03:57 PM

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QUOTE(trinity3 @ Nov 21 2014, 03:28 PM)
Hi,

came across this interesting thread. Based on what was discussed & reading the article on KiniBiz,
just wonder why the oil company don't use factoring? Factoring defined  .

There are plenty of factoring companies for oil and gas. Not sure the rate such companies want in return for such advances. Still begs the question why go through all the trouble looking for small time investors vs dealing with several bigger companies.

So verdict is still unable to determine if scam or not.

Returns guaranteed on paper? Ok. (GermanInvestor says got issue, related?)

Return off your investment i.e. getting back your capital? Don't know yet.

It being positioned/marketed as a low risk investment would be unethical. For the risk incurred, i think there are other investments less "pening"

Some blue chip high dividend shares, unit trust also less headache, sleepless night.
*
You guys can keep on talking while I pocket the money. Whether will take back the capital or not have to wait and see lor. I tell you all later....People go casino aware that chances of winning is low but still many peoples go. So is all up to you whether you want to get in or stay out.

escargo75
post Nov 22 2014, 04:01 PM

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QUOTE(elea88 @ Nov 14 2014, 05:49 PM)

*
Aiyo you looking for ministry approved scheme ka? You can still trust our idiot government when the abolish the petrol subsidy? You give money to the ministry they will sure approve la. Those banks and bursa already fed them fat fat but how many actually making money in those schemes if you take into inflation cost