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 [WTA] Capital Asia Group, have any heard of this company?

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escargo75
post Oct 12 2013, 10:50 PM

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QUOTE(kazy90 @ Oct 11 2013, 06:39 PM)
I'm invested in it. Just got my return last 2 days. smile.gif
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Me too got my return of 3% per quarter. Silver Malaysia is selling this scheme for POA. You can find detail here. http://www.silvermalaysia.com/index.php/buy/crude-oil. Whether it is scam or not I am not sure but I putting small money to test it out. I think a lot of people worry it to be another Geneva!
escargo75
post Oct 12 2013, 10:58 PM

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QUOTE(danokchonger @ Jun 10 2013, 05:30 PM)
It seems CAG is a fund raising entity of another fund raising entity, Proven Oil Asia. Other companies in S'pore also works with CAG/POA, Infinity Treasures, Shenton Energy Asia. In Europe, their partner is POC (Proven Oil Canada). All of them r fund raiser for a privately held oil company called Conserve Oil Corp (COC) based in Alberta - POC/POA r actually 100% subsidiary of COC. no idea how CAG/Infinity/Shenton strucutures with POA.

POC also has interesting history n controversies of its own. reported by german's businessweek

http://www.wiwo.de/finanzen/boerse/wiwo-bl...il/7924586.html
http://blog.wiwo.de/betriebssystem/2013/01...n-oil/#more-177

got into court cases with POC. interesting enough, an investor protection law firm has this to post as part of the their service

http://www.resch-rechtsanwaelte.de/C-1214-...Oil-Canada.aspx

derive ur own conclusion n investigate further.
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Dunno what is written there as it is in German. You can read German?

escargo75
post Oct 13 2013, 05:06 PM

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QUOTE(kazy90 @ Oct 13 2013, 12:59 PM)
yeah.. just diversify money away.. 12% per annum is cool thumbup.gif

I've done my study the business model is totally different with Genneva..

ps:lucky I didn't invested in Genneva  icon_rolleyes.gif
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A lot of my friend still skeptical and use the wait and see approach...

escargo75
post Oct 19 2013, 11:19 PM

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QUOTE(de_facto @ Oct 19 2013, 02:01 AM)
at least my capital is always guaranteed. > omg. such a loaded statement. firstly, trustees just oversee the redistribution of funds - if its done at a loss, makes no matter to them as they have no obligations whatsoever. they oni obliged 2 step in event close shop, etc. collateral is based on valuation. still need willing buyer 2 actually buy it for said price. if got any incident which cause these event - logiclah it will also affect the price of the colateral.

secondly, the valuers themselves are who actually? if 2 firms perform audit/valuation = both will have differing findings & can/will try to base their findings on 'prevailing trends' to justify their valuation.

thirdly, who r the trustees ah? is it some well known big time bank... or just some unknown/new 'third party'... seriously, how to know they will be objective when makin decisions if it ever come 2 pass?... shell corporations are a dime a dozen... funnel $ in, then k, thx, bye... bernie maddoff collected(stole!) us 18 billion and ran his scheme for nearly 20 - 40 years before he was found out... same style as this investment 2 > promise big return, give big return for the initial period ($ come frm the new goldfish who 'invest') & he did it till he finally got caught. actually, if u refer the case, u can also see the point i made above about 'trustee vaulation'... us federal investigators say stolen amount amounted to usd 45 billion, but court appointed trustee say amount is usd 18 billion... thats a huge difference!!!... who lah can main agak agak wid usd 27 billion...         

if dun sit front of computer & main main keyboard 2 cari info - then either nt makin an informed decision to invest or the lack of info means sumtin is wrong/deliberately being hidden/misleading. either way, choosing to invest in a company thats nt transparent about its info/project is very scary.

i dun wanna end up wakin 1 day 2 hear these guys ciow/close shop... even if can recover $, its gonna b a long affair.

& still so may q's unaswered - wat is johnathan quek's involvement in this if any? bernie madoff used 2 be the non exec chairman of nasdaq... and look wat hpnd 2 him!!!

i hope  that by askin questions - it can help me confirm if i really wanna invest... 12% a year is syiok gila... so any1 gt anwers/counterpoints 2 my statements here, pls reply so 2gether we can make a wise decisions. tq.
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What I know Jonathan Quek also invested in it. He is one of the client too. Again what I heard he invested quite heavily so he did a due diligence went to Canada to find out himself whether this is a scam or not? You get better info by attending their talk and can pose whatever question you want. If you worry too much don't invest few hundred thousand but just RM5,000 can start already. To me if it really turn up to be scam at least you minimize the risk of capital lost.
escargo75
post Dec 26 2013, 03:45 PM

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Here you can find some read up on the crude oil investment... http://www.silvermalaysia.com/index.php/buy/crude-oil

Let's continue to debate rclxms.gif
escargo75
post Dec 26 2013, 04:08 PM

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QUOTE(escargo75 @ Dec 26 2013, 04:45 PM)
Here you can find some read up on the crude oil investment... http://www.silvermalaysia.com/index.php/buy/crude-oil

Let's continue to debate  rclxms.gif
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More info on COC and POC....

http://www.conserveoilcorporation.com/home.html

http://www.proven-oil-canada.de/start.html
escargo75
post Dec 26 2013, 04:24 PM

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QUOTE(Black Red @ Dec 26 2013, 03:31 PM)
is this kind of investment legit? got some relatives wanna borrow me some money, can get 3% monthly. I've been searching in Google but cannot get a clear view of this.
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More read up here...

http://cbbworldwide.com/how-to-earn-12-p-a...ital-protection


escargo75
post Dec 26 2013, 04:28 PM

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QUOTE(iamfromhk @ Oct 28 2013, 02:28 AM)
just to share ok.. no intention to saboh other ppls biz. In Hong Kong, even for 2%-3% return per annum peoples will Q up day and night to invest in it. Reason is because HKD is tied up to USD so the interest rate from the bank is like 0%. Hk peoples loves to invest. But Hk investor is very smart peoples in Hk you can invest for everything. Its a very mature market for investor. For 12% per annum if they are looking for investor, why don't they do it here in HK? Just wonder. Maybe I can be their agent here in Hk IF everything is legal. I do know a lot of wealth peoples in Hong Kong.

John
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Just to answer your question about Hong Kie investment, already got consultancy company at Macau/HK luring Macau/HK investors so you are too late rclxms.gif

http://www.ltcc.biz/en/services/immediate-...flow-investment

escargo75
post Dec 26 2013, 04:35 PM

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QUOTE(TiramisuCoffee @ Dec 16 2013, 05:00 PM)
FD protection is up to certain limit only. I'm referring to big sum. If there's bank run, good luck 2 u!  doh.gif

If want windfall but cannot afford, this is what we can do. Save Rm1- on a daily basis into a piggy bank. Anytime u feel like it, crash it open - viola! Windfall!  rclxm9.gif This method chance is 100%, I tell you!
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If this Crude Oil is a scam I feel ok because this will be the biggest scam that will involve many peoples around the world and not limit to Malaysia only. Yeah, I think I am kind of stupid to think that way. Is like got so many peoples dies together with me is OK lah.... icon_rolleyes.gif Check out the Capital Asia scam that involve so many countries...

http://www.capitalasiagroup.com/main.php



escargo75
post Dec 26 2013, 04:55 PM

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QUOTE(Black Red @ Dec 26 2013, 05:53 PM)
hongkies got many rich people, usually they will do CIES.
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What is CIES?

escargo75
post Dec 26 2013, 05:01 PM

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QUOTE(klthor @ Dec 16 2013, 06:13 PM)
pidm i think 200k?

i dun like the concept of foreign investment, becoz we do not know their laws and regulation. and their news will reach us very slow, i mean those public info. proxy/trustee, like other former said, who are them? well known ppl like obama, osama(oops hes dead) as ur trustee or just the guy next door? 12% guarantee return? in USD ar? or in RM? why they can guarantee? are you sure they can guarantee if sudd RM rise like rocket and trade 1usd to rm2? are they still able to maintain 12% return?

as i said earlier, we cant stop ppl from investing but i aint going to put my hands in these. i rather go to toto, spend RM1 and dream i can hit jackpot and become 20mil richer.
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You can keep on buying your Toto because it will never hit!! Come to think about it why i still buy it also hoping to hit the $21 mill SUPREME haha rclxms.gif

escargo75
post Dec 26 2013, 10:45 PM

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QUOTE(Showtime747 @ Dec 26 2013, 09:44 PM)
Based on the info provided in the website, I can't find any fault in the arrangement. Looks like it is a very thoroughly thought of financial plan to attract investors. However, that leads me to ask the question. At 12% pa, why would the company failed to get financing from financial institution ? If you consider they have to appoint agents to market for them, their borrowing cost could go up to 15% (?). It would be much simpler to get financing from 1 bank/consortium of banks instead of managing thousands of investors. The only logical answer I can think of (and ASSUMING it is a legitimate investment) is it is a very high risk business. Even at 15%, banks refuse to get involve

BTW, anybody knows how much the agent earn from recruiting ?
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To answer your question why not get loan from bank? You know bank loan will take time to approve and also disburse money slowly and not at one shot. It is just like any company who want to get capital for their business they can either get bank loan or attract investor aka share holder. So you buy the company share and give them your money without the bank red tapes.

Why so many companies get funding from share holder instead of get it from bank? It is fast right? So since COC is not a public listed companies (you can read all the websites) so they cannot issue shares for the general public but use other methods to get funding if they don't go to bank, make sense?

By the way, how do you know bank lending rate at Canada is not more than 12%? I don't know but I think you can find out yourself.


escargo75
post Dec 26 2013, 10:48 PM

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QUOTE(klthor @ Dec 26 2013, 06:24 PM)
yep i also keep buy and dream. treat these types of investment as toto jackpot, dun put in ur life saving into it.
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You call buying Toto Jackpot as investment? My God.... doh.gif
escargo75
post Dec 27 2013, 09:36 AM

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QUOTE(klthor @ Dec 27 2013, 01:38 AM)
basic finance

1st equity return is always higher than bank borrowings interest rate. so theres no chance bank lending is over 12%.
2nd funding from shareholder takes even more time than getting loan approval from banks.

with FOREX risk on the boat and still able to guarantee 12% return pa, seems fishy to me.
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It is really up to you whether you want to think that way or not but I will not spend my time convincing you to invest in it. If you think it is a scam then it is a scam. To me it is not, that's it.

You can do your due diligence and at the end of the day it is you who pay for it so you can have your opinion that's fair.
escargo75
post Dec 27 2013, 09:48 AM

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QUOTE(Showtime747 @ Dec 27 2013, 12:38 AM)
Yes bank takes time. But this scheme has been >1 year since the launch. And they are still recruiting. Even Malaysian banks does not take >1 year to process loan. You really think Canadian banks are that inefficient  ? tongue.gif

What is Canadian bank interest rates ? I put the link of BOC overnight rates below. The benchmark rate remains at 1% since 2010. Hope you know how to estimate the rate for business loan from there

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bank-of-ca...-at-1-1.2450462
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If you read the link that I provided, you can find the answer there. For the benefits of all, I will tell you why. The scheme is more than 1 year because there is more than 1 project or oil rigs. It will continue to go on as long as there is new oil rigs.

The mis-conception of the promised ROI is that it is base on lock down period of two years. After the expiry of two years the rate of return might change. I am not financial expert like you all but simple layman and every opportunity do come with risk. If we are looking for almost zero risk investment you can invest in FD.

If you feel that this is risky just put small portion of your wealth in it and see how it goes. People also say investing in gold is highly rewardable but if you bought the gold at the $1,800 per ounce, you must be cursing. In investment it is all about timing, risk ratio and off-course gut feeling. If your gut feeling is not good, I would not waster my time even to consider it. One good example is Forex trading because to me i think you cannot beat the big shark unless you are extremely good....
escargo75
post Dec 27 2013, 11:45 AM

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QUOTE(Showtime747 @ Dec 27 2013, 12:07 PM)
I have read the link many times but it does not explain why they resort to capital market instead of leveraging. There are many other projects/business that last >1 year and FYI there are also many debt instruments that cater to the needs of various types of project/business of different time line. There must be some reasons/constraints/purpose they are willing to pay 12%-15% instead of getting cheaper funding via leveraging. We are talking about extra ~10% pa here. If they borrow US$100m, then that is extra US$10m cost per year

Ask yourself. If you have a viable business which needs funding. Will you go to the 1 bank that charge you 5% or will you go to find thousands of investors who you need to pay them 12%-15% ?

Anyway, good luck in your investment
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I think what you are talking about is conventional investment or asset class. This is alternative investment class. I have to agree with you that it does not make sense (base on conventional thinking) that why not borrow from bank. You can find out the answer from the company who sell this scheme or you can just ignore it thinking that it is another Geneva. Well nobody will know until things happen.

There are a lot of alternative investment around lately and have you heard of bird nest scheme? This scheme is approved by the government but again a lot of skeptic who doubt the return and the picking up rate is not as fast as I would thought.

Most human are skeptics and will go for the safe investment like FD, unit trust, bonds, etc but slowly for sure I think this scenario will change.

I remember Conrad once said that unit trust investment is rubbish as you paid a lot of fees and the best class of investment is still buying stocks - well everyone know why he said that. In every business there are tricks involved so they will not tell you everything - so the reasons they are not telling is either it is scam or it is trade secret. It depends how you see it and those who succeeded deemed as innovator and those who failed a fool.

I remember reading Uncle Lim's biography about his vision dream of building a casino on a hill. i think most people doubt it can be done and plenty said that it will fail but viola!!

Sorry gone out of topic but it is good that someone has open some questions that if I have opportunity will ask next time but not sure they will answer. Is like my friends many time asked me you want to jump or not and no time to tell you why just do it!! rclxm9.gif
escargo75
post Dec 27 2013, 04:11 PM

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QUOTE(Showtime747 @ Dec 27 2013, 05:01 PM)
There is no such thing as conventional or unconventional investment. Whatever fancy name the promoter may call the investment, be it alternative investment, new era investment, hybrid investment etc, eventually it is all about dollar and cent. Changing a name does not alter the objective of any business, which is "making profits". If the business is capable of borrowing at 5.0%, they won't borrow at 5.1%

It is all about level of risk. As said, if the banks don't want to take up the risk, there are many others like you who are willing to. There are always people who are willing to tolerate more risk than a bank. The business just need to raise the returns high enough to lure investors in. In this case, it is 12%
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I have to agree with you on this. If the bank cannot tolerate the risk does not mean that it is a scam. There might be other reasons that you and me do not know. It is just like one bank willing to offer loan to a borrower vs another bank who is not willing, so can you say that the borrower is fishy and the bank that do not offer the loan make a wise decision?

It is all about your evaluation and your risk appetite and there is no right or wrong just whether at the end of the day who make the money. It is not about how right or wrong are you but how much you can take risk to achieve something bigger.

escargo75
post Jul 19 2014, 10:56 PM

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I just got paid for 4th time rclxms.gif
escargo75
post Jul 25 2014, 11:41 PM

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QUOTE(The_Truth @ Jul 25 2014, 08:47 AM)
Firstly, I'm not trying to argue with you here, I believe need to be fair to your uncle and the oil company if can clarify the things.  You can have your concerns it is fine, but please give others a chance to explain to you before you make a conclusion. 

Just like many Journalist, they can write things when they get the information from online and based on their own opinion. (* which I called assumption).  For Example, if today you intend to buy a car and you want to know the features and performance of the car, would you go and ask someone has never drive the car before and they get information from online or you will directly go to the showroom and ask the sales coordinator? Who you think has the most product knowledge?

Why the fund not distribute the dividends to German investor is mainly because the fund has got a vote of 86% with over 3,000 investors voting where the investors wanted asset appreciation over the years and therefore in the year 2013 $59million was spent on capital on the assets to increase value. An additional $18million dollar acquisition was made for the fund in 2013 for capital expenditures exceeding $70million in 2013. The investments into the assets is made to grow the asset base and overall return to the investors.
Distributions to German Investors has been consistently made for over 4 years now with some investors having received over 60% of their invested capital returned to date.In the year of 2014 the fund is continuing to focus on asset growth in order to generate the highest possible returns.

The Euro compared to the Canadian Dollar is also at a all time high with $1Euro being equivalent to $1.54CAD/ $1.50 CAD when in the past $1Euro was only $1.34CAD. This also shows that currently it would not be a good time to send Canadian earned cash flow over to Europe as distributions. 

Asia structure is a 2 year structure with 24% returns to the Clients. The German investors are wanting a 200% return as per the prospectus over a greater than 4 year time frame.

I understand why German are skeptical recently is because in Germany two of the larger closed end funds just went bankrupt and now the market is just nervous.

GermanInvestor, I understand your feeling because that is your uncle hard earn money, I feel you. I hope that I give you a clearer picture now. If I offend you by my previous statement, I'm here to say sorry to you.

Cheers.
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Good one rclxms.gif

escargo75
post Jul 25 2014, 11:44 PM

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QUOTE(GermanInvestor @ Jul 25 2014, 04:39 PM)
Where do you get the information about the vote??
In 2013 there was a voting for putting every finds together in one large fonds, called "Canadian Oil and Gas International Ltd".
The reason for that was (as Proven Oil told the investors): lower costs and the gas fonds could profit more from the oil funds.
But: they can also aquire 40% loan capital, without a vote from the investors. And: the investment is now totally different in that, which the investors invested in the first place. Since that day, there are less information, no payments and no actual news given to the investors.

Maybe you are right, that the investors get back nearly 60% of their investment till today. But what about the rest of 40%??
You also need to know: if an investor invested 100 TSD Euros, only max of 85% of it where invested. The rest is gone. For costs only (management fee, auditor etc).
So if you want to make it right, just say the investors get back 40-50% till now.

And I am pretty sure, that's it.

But you are right. Most of the investors are afraid of getting linked because of a lot of frauds the last years. There were not only 2 big frauds, there has been a lot more going on.

Since the shipping crisis starts in 2009/2010, more and more not really serious investment firms popped out of nowhere. All of them promise 12% or more cash flow. Of course without any risk ;-)

I told my uncle, that I am not sorry for him, if he looses his money. That construction could not work and with the people behind that company's, everybody should have known about the high risks.

I would never invest in such a company and in such cash flow promises. I work hard for my money and if I want to loose it, I could also burn it. Same result: money is gone!!
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You always be loser whistling.gif


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