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> Military Thread V9, Happy birthday Malaysia & ATM ke 50 & 80

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KYPMbangi
post Jun 29 2013, 11:09 PM

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QUOTE(cks2k2 @ Jun 29 2013, 10:26 PM)
i find their procurement of leos and apaches a bit strange.
given their geographical layout (lots of islands and stretched out) they should put priority on navy/marine/coastal defense.
leos limited use in rural areas; apaches are effectively tank-killers - but kill what?
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On shopping spree I guess?

leo is definitely for fibua operation
apaches.. umm, to replace the hind most probably
kerolzarmyfanboy
post Jun 29 2013, 11:15 PM

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how much T-84 did Thai bought?
cks2k2
post Jun 29 2013, 11:21 PM

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QUOTE(KYPMbangi @ Jun 29 2013, 11:09 PM)
leo is definitely for fibua operation
*
reminds me of a story my indon friend told me.
during the 1998 indonesia riots, rich people hired tanks to guard their property.
meedoot
post Jun 29 2013, 11:26 PM

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QUOTE(cks2k2 @ Jun 29 2013, 09:26 PM)
i find their procurement of leos and apaches a bit strange.
given their geographical layout (lots of islands and stretched out) they should put priority on navy/marine/coastal defense.

leos limited use in rural areas; apaches are effectively tank-killers - but kill what?
*
u confused? no wonder cause im confused also rclxub.gif

not about leo's or apache.. but about all procurement in here.. like no plan at all, not like malaysian procurement.. seems like straight on plan and well planed..


meedoot
post Jun 30 2013, 01:07 AM

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TSyinchet
post Jun 30 2013, 02:24 AM

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QUOTE(cks2k2 @ Jun 29 2013, 10:26 PM)
i find their procurement of leos and apaches a bit strange.
given their geographical layout (lots of islands and stretched out) they should put priority on navy/marine/coastal defense.

leos limited use in rural areas; apaches are effectively tank-killers - but kill what?
*
The indonesia apche deal was not a good 1.
Too expensive.
However procuring a attack heli will give them a very good cas platform.
The sulu incident in ld shown we need attack heli support.
But theb again idon should have focus on increase their hind fleet instead.

As for leo, it was definitely a good deal.
But the question still on how are they going to utilize it to suit their environment.
If the leo were able to work well then it just a waste of fund even it were cheap.
I would love to see how are they going to transport those leos from island to island if leos service is require.
Marder tank perhaps able to shed some light in our question.
azriel
post Jun 30 2013, 10:31 AM

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QUOTE(kerolzarmyfanboy @ Jun 29 2013, 11:15 PM)
how much T-84 did Thai bought?
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Over USD 200 million for 49 units of Oplot from a total planned purchase of 200 units.

QUOTE
Ukraine presented the first production tank MBT T-84 Oplot-M for Thailand

The first production tank MBT T-84 Oplot-M for Thailand  was presented  in Kharkiv (Ukrainian) on June 26.

Ukrainian State Company for Export and Import of Military and Special Products and Services (Ukrspetseksport), which is a part of the Ukroboronprom state concern, intends to supply 49 T-84 Oplot tanks to Thailand.

As Ukrainian News reported, Ukrspetseksport on September 1 signed a contract with the Defense Ministry of Thailand to deliver 49 Oplot tanks for a sum exceeding USD 200 million.

On August 5, Ukrspetseksport reached agreement with Thailand for manufacture of 121 pieces of BTR-3E1 armored personnel carriers and support vehicles based on them worth a total of more than USD 140 million.

Ukrspetseksport is part of the Ukroboronprom state-run concern, which also comprising enterprises producing military hardware, including tank-building enterprises.

source


This post has been edited by azriel: Jun 30 2013, 10:32 AM
azriel
post Jun 30 2013, 10:43 AM

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QUOTE(yinchet @ Jun 30 2013, 02:24 AM)
The indonesia apche deal was not a good 1.
Too expensive.
However procuring a attack heli will give them a very good cas platform.
The sulu incident in ld shown we need attack heli support.
But theb again idon should have focus on increase their hind fleet instead.

As for leo, it was definitely a good deal.
But the question still on how are they going to utilize it to suit their environment.
If the leo were able to work well then it just a waste of fund even it were cheap.
I would love to see how are they going to transport those leos from island to island if leos service is require.
Marder tank perhaps able to shed some light in our question.
*
Indonesia is currently building 3 unit LST specially built to carry the Leo 2's with the recently keel laying of the 3rd LST. Each LST could carry 10 Leo 2's + 2 supporting vehicle. With the completion of the 3 LST then TNI-AL have the capability to transport & move 30 units Leo 2's to any Indonesian port of destination.

user posted image

And for the Apaches. according to the article that TNI-AD is planning to form an Apache Squadron my guess is that it will not be 8 units as previous reported but is negotiating for a full squadron for maybe 16 - 18 units with a combination of Block III (Longbow) & Block II or at least 12 units of Apaches.

This post has been edited by azriel: Jun 30 2013, 11:32 AM
waja2000
post Jun 30 2013, 12:11 PM

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QUOTE(yinchet @ Jun 30 2013, 02:24 AM)
The indonesia apche deal was not a good 1.
Too expensive.
However procuring a attack heli will give them a very good cas platform.
The sulu incident in ld shown we need attack heli support.
But theb again idon should have focus on increase their hind fleet instead.

*
for Year 2013 price already at that level with so many electronic improvement ,and price increase more than 40 million perunit....
South Korea buy 36 Apache AH-64E (block 3)with 1.6 billion, around 44 million per-unit (include maintanance, missile, traning etc... )
event Tiger packages also more than 40m for 2013 (HAD version)

http://www.army-technology.com/news/newsbo...ers-south-korea

This post has been edited by waja2000: Jun 30 2013, 12:16 PM
TSyinchet
post Jun 30 2013, 12:38 PM

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QUOTE(waja2000 @ Jun 30 2013, 12:11 PM)
for Year 2013 price already at that level with so many electronic improvement ,and price increase more than 40 million perunit....
South Korea buy 36 Apache AH-64E (block 3)with 1.6 billion, around 44 million per-unit (include maintanance, missile, traning etc... )
event Tiger packages also more than 40m for 2013 (HAD version)

http://www.army-technology.com/news/newsbo...ers-south-korea
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Sk buy 36 unit for 1.6b but indon buy 8 units for 1.4bil
Expensive or not you judge it.
TSyinchet
post Jun 30 2013, 12:49 PM

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QUOTE(azriel @ Jun 30 2013, 10:43 AM)
Indonesia is currently building 3 unit LST specially built to carry the Leo 2's with the recently keel laying of the 3rd LST. Each LST could carry 10 Leo 2's + 2 supporting vehicle. With the completion of the 3 LST then TNI-AL have the capability to transport & move 30 units Leo 2's to any Indonesian port of destination.

user posted image

And for the Apaches. according to the article that TNI-AD is planning to form an Apache Squadron my guess is that it will not be 8 units as previous reported but is negotiating for a full squadron for maybe 16 - 18 units with a combination of Block III (Longbow) & Block II or at least 12 units of Apaches.
*
I'm still not convince with the effectiveness of the lst.
10 units dat small amount. Should build a bigger ship.
As for the apache we have to wait the whole deal conclude if the deals is still that expensive indon would be better off going for alternatives heli.
azriel
post Jun 30 2013, 12:59 PM

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QUOTE(yinchet @ Jun 30 2013, 12:49 PM)
I'm still not convince with the effectiveness of the lst.
10 units dat small amount. Should build a bigger ship.
As for the apache we have to wait the whole deal conclude  if the deals is still that expensive indon would be better off going for alternatives heli.
*
Why not LST? Here is the Greek Jason Class LST carrying Leo 2A6 HEL.

user posted image

user posted image

user posted image

source

According some reports TNI-AD second choice is the AH-IZ Zulu as an alternative.
TSyinchet
post Jun 30 2013, 01:16 PM

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QUOTE(azriel @ Jun 30 2013, 12:59 PM)
Why not LST? Here is the Greek Jason Class LST carrying Leo 2A6 HEL.

user posted image

user posted image

user posted image

source

According some reports TNI-AD second choice is the AH-IZ Zulu as an alternative.
*
I mean they shoul build a larger ship to carry more leos.
10units seem to be......
crapp0
post Jun 30 2013, 01:18 PM

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Should also have a section for keyboard warrios aka cybertroopers. They are the l33t.
SUSking of fighter
post Jun 30 2013, 03:17 PM

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QUOTE(meedoot @ Jun 30 2013, 01:07 AM)
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ni pula latihan menembak Angkatan Tentera Malaysia (ATM) laugh.gif
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waja2000
post Jun 30 2013, 04:01 PM

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QUOTE(yinchet @ Jun 30 2013, 12:38 PM)
Sk buy 36 unit for 1.6b but indon buy 8 units for 1.4bil
Expensive or not you judge it.
*
8 unit sure too expensive, event expensive than F35....
just wait see final deal, for news early pages indo neigo 40unit @ 40m per-unit is acceptable.

This post has been edited by waja2000: Jun 30 2013, 05:40 PM
Quantum_thinking
post Jun 30 2013, 09:12 PM

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QUOTE(yinchet @ Jun 30 2013, 12:49 PM)
I'm still not convince with the effectiveness of the lst.
10 units dat small amount. Should build a bigger ship.
As for the apache we have to wait the whole deal conclude  if the deals is still that expensive indon would be better off going for alternatives heli.
*
Nah. Cannot put too many tanks in one ship as well. Have to "optimize". tongue.gif

About Apache deal for indon, i really remember how the soviets treat their Arab "brothers" back in the Cold War. I have no idea how much they are paying for the T-72 tanks and other weapons, but i always kinda wondering if the super powers would actually allows countries in South East Asia here have the same level of technology they originally have in the original models. Maybe this time US is giving good stuff to the indon, but for a "good" price tag. blink.gif
cks2k2
post Jun 30 2013, 09:25 PM

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QUOTE(Quantum_thinking @ Jun 30 2013, 09:12 PM)
Nah. Cannot put too many tanks in one ship as well. Have to "optimize". tongue.gif

About Apache deal for indon, i really remember how the soviets treat their Arab "brothers" back in the Cold War. I have no idea how much they are paying for the T-72 tanks and other weapons, but i always kinda wondering if the super powers would actually allows countries in South East Asia here have the same level of technology they originally have in the original models. Maybe this time US is giving good stuff to the indon, but for a "good" price tag.  blink.gif
*
the americans won't allow sales of weapons that can destabilize the balance-of-power in the region.
the good stuff is only sold to allies like sg and thailand, even then these allies don't get the full spec.

even singapore had to lobby hard to get their apache 64d; originally US would only sell the 64a.
azriel
post Jun 30 2013, 09:45 PM

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QUOTE(cks2k2 @ Jun 30 2013, 09:25 PM)
the americans won't allow sales of weapons that can destabilize the balance-of-power in the region.
the good stuff is only sold to allies like sg and thailand, even then these allies don't get the full spec.

even singapore had to lobby hard to get their apache 64d; originally US would only sell the 64a.
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The US offered Indonesia the AH-64D Block III Longbow.

http://www.deagel.com/news/FMS-Indonesia-R...n000010778.aspx

This post has been edited by azriel: Jun 30 2013, 09:45 PM
adioz88
post Jun 30 2013, 11:36 PM

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QUOTE(meedoot @ Jun 30 2013, 02:07 AM)
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is it reall light? smile.gif

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